Tactics Character WIP

[ndchristie]

This is a wicked WIP, atm its just got a rough liner on the rotation, but if people could point out anything they see wrong now, before i put a lot of work into something that doesnt rotate right?  im going to come right out and say it - im a piss-poor animator, so i need all the help i can get on this



That fix it, radio?

[Radioactivity]

It look solid enough to me.

The line across his chest seems to wigle a little bit though, as he trusn to the left (his right) is when it seems to occur.

[Larwick]

Hmm i don't seem to notice that. Seems good enough for me, although the crotch area is quite confusing, but that can be fixed when you neaten it up i guess.

[sonic_reaper]

Looks a little bow-legged on the straight-on perspective.  Besides that, looks like a really solid start.

[ndchristie]

Thanks guys, i tried to take what you all said into consideration.

here is the first colored version next to the original sketch:

[Nix]

im really liking the colours. i think the stance is good

[Zach]

adarias your stuff reminds me of exlikeus.com so much

[setz]

his pants seem... unfinished . lots of detail on the jacket but none on the pants[well, detail, but maybe you get what I mean x.X]. great rotation, btw =]

[ndchristie]

Yeah, i wonderd about the pants....the shirt was intended to look like satin, hense the different highlighting system, but does it make the (cotton) pants look unfinished? i was hoping more for dull . My next edit will address that

Zach: ive never heard of that website, but theres some cool stuff on it.  It must be by several different artists though? actually, looks like just one person who is very good at varying her art style.  most of the work there looks like the love child of kenneth fejer, happip, bisque, and bear (who are all on pixeljoint)

[Zach]

Yeah, i wonderd about the pants....the shirt was intended to look like satin, hense the different highlighting system, but does it make the (cotton) pants look unfinished? i was hoping more for dull . My next edit will address that

Zach: ive never heard of that website, but theres some cool stuff on it.  It must be by several different artists though? actually, looks like just one person who is very good at varying her art style.  most of the work there looks like the love child of kenneth fejer, happip, bisque, and bear (who are all on pixeljoint)

i'm bear on pixel joint  >.>

anyways it's a dude lol, he's got some nice stuff but if  you look deep into his little forum that he's got there's a lot of awsome korean pixel art

[Larwick]

The pallette is great, and everything is very easy to 'understand'. I dont think theres much you could do to the trousers... perhaps give him a belt or kneepads, but hey. I'll be watching. Dundunduuun.

[ndchristie]

i'm bear on pixel joint  >.>

that makes sense!

anyways it's a dude lol, he's got some nice stuff but if  you look deep into his little forum that he's got there's a lot of awsome korean pixel art

hmm, interesting.....webcam shots had me fooled at a glance ... my bad >,<.  that, and i dont speak/read korean >.<

newest edit:


the boots are bothering me......but if nobody else cares (nobody else has said anything).... ill stop fiddling

[Andy Tran]

 Looking good adrias.

[neverest]

hehe except now it looks a bit like hes not wearing any trousers. 

[ndchristie]

hehe except now it looks a bit like hes not wearing any trousers. 

really ? hmm...back to the drawing board then 

[setz]

I woudl say a belt, maybe hanging down from the center [would help to kill the symmetrical issue abit as well], or possibly creases/pockets in the pants.

[ndchristie]

hmm.., id prefer not to change the uniform, which does not include a belt (the blouse is on top of basically overalls with a t-shirt of sorts)

i will think more about the pants though

one question, what is the symmetry issue? if you mean the horizontal flip for the form, im not sure how a belt would help?

also, the hair will be asymmetric, which will help (hair/hats are a separate layer from the costume sprite)

[setz]

Aye. I was talking about the horizontal flip. a belt could help if the end was hanging out to one side. But I suppose if it were a uniform, it'd be tucked in :x. I didn't exactly realise it was a uniform ^^; I believe I may have said it before, but it's great as is =] just trying to help

[Lick]

Great rotation indeed. Give him some hair and character!

[Dhaos]

I think you may have overdone the blackish lines on the boots. I'm guessing they're metallic by the looks of them though, if thats the case there should be a thick contrast in shadows (for objects this tiny), right now the black just looks like an unblended outline. If this doesnt make sense I could do an edit. Other than its very well made, the sprite roates well and has a cute outfit.

Also what is this for? Practice/fun? Or do you just like torturing poor sprites by stripping them of their hair?

BTW kenneth and happip all post here as well ^_^... wish they would post more often though =*(.

[ndchristie]

I think you may have overdone the blackish lines on the boots. I'm guessing they're metallic by the looks of them though, if thats the case there should be a thick contrast in shadows (for objects this tiny), right now the black just looks like an unblended outline. If this doesnt make sense I could do an edit. Other than its very well made, the sprite roates well and has a cute outfit.

Well they arent actually metalic, just intended to look a little polished and cleaner than normal boots.  Could you perhaps do an edit, or jsut explain a bit more as to what you think is wrong?  Ive messed with them enough times that im worried ill overwork the piece if i mess with them again.

Also what is this for? Practice/fun? Or do you just like torturing poor sprites by stripping them of their hair?

This character is mostly for-fun, or perhaps a future project, but it is going to serve as a reference for the graphics for a game im working on (ive never been happy with the graphics ive done for that roject so this is the 3rd incarnation of the characters)

BTW kenneth and happip all post here as well ^_^... wish they would post more often though =*(.

I didnt realise that they were here, but what i ment in my post before was that the style reminded me of those artists' works, that is, it reminds me of the works they've posted on pixeljoint, which i know doesnt have a complete collection of any artist's works.  Im full aware that most of you know who they are and that they are elsewhere


Ok, so i know the boots have yet to be done properly, but until they are, heres the begining of the southeast (and, since the forms are symmetric, also i suppose the southwest) walking frames. 
Note: Only the 4 diagonals will have walking and r1 attack frames, because its an iso grid.  anything r2+ (magic, speaking, achery) will be in all 8 directions



again, fi people see any botched bits, plesae let me know

[instant]

I think you may have overdone the blackish lines on the boots. I'm guessing they're metallic by the looks of them though, if thats the case there should be a thick contrast in shadows (for objects this tiny), right now the black just looks like an unblended outline. If this doesnt make sense I could do an edit. Other than its very well made, the sprite roates well and has a cute outfit.

Well they arent actually metalic, just intended to look a little polished and cleaner than normal boots.  Could you perhaps do an edit, or jsut explain a bit more as to what you think is wrong?  Ive messed with them enough times that im worried ill overwork the piece if i mess with them again.

Also what is this for? Practice/fun? Or do you just like torturing poor sprites by stripping them of their hair?

This character is mostly for-fun, or perhaps a future project, but it is going to serve as a reference for the graphics for a game im working on (ive never been happy with the graphics ive done for that roject so this is the 3rd incarnation of the characters)

BTW kenneth and happip all post here as well ^_^... wish they would post more often though =*(.

I didnt realise that they were here, but what i ment in my post before was that the style reminded me of those artists' works, that is, it reminds me of the works they've posted on pixeljoint, which i know doesnt have a complete collection of any artist's works.  Im full aware that most of you know who they are and that they are elsewhere


Ok, so i know the boots have yet to be done properly, but until they are, heres the begining of the southeast (and, since the forms are symmetric, also i suppose the southwest) walking frames. 
Note: Only the 4 diagonals will have walking and r1 attack frames, because its an iso grid.  anything r2+ (magic, speaking, achery) will be in all 8 directions



again, fi people see any botched bits, plesae let me know

Lovely. I wish you had a tutorial up regarding your animation. Its not perfect but it would help a lot of beginners in the animation aspect of pixel art.

[Dhaos]

@Adarias: Heres a quick edit of a few frames (follow the red arrow) I was just cleaning up the shoe so its easier to distinguish. After doing the edit I realized that two more AA tones (one for the jacket and one for the boots) could help the sprite alot, however I could tell that wasn't the direction you were heading in so I didn't modify that ^^U.



Also I noticed you used two near black tones in your sprite, one redish and one greenish. They were both used in the outline only and it would probably be conservant of you to remove one of them perhaps.

Anyways good luck with your latest animation.

[ndchristie]

Thank you Dhaos for taking the time, however, i think i will keep the boots like they are now for a while, since i think they fit better with my general style

Aso, i hear what you are saying about the darkeer colors, but fo the moment im going to keep them since the goal of this sint to conserve colors, its to make tihngs simpler, and having 2 different colors there actually does make things simpler for me to work.  visualy i dont think its a big enough issue that the 2 different colors will hurt the graphics, but what do people tihnk? i am after all posting this here so that people can tell me stuff like that

I have begun working on the colored version of the running animation, but still feel free to suggest ways to fix the rotations if people see anything they think is wrong with them

[instant]

Thank you Dhaos for taking the time, however, i think i will keep the boots like they are now for a while, since i think they fit better with my general style

Aso, i hear what you are saying about the darkeer colors, but fo the moment im going to keep them since the goal of this sint to conserve colors, its to make tihngs simpler, and having 2 different colors there actually does make things simpler for me to work.  visualy i dont think its a big enough issue that the 2 different colors will hurt the graphics, but what do people tihnk? i am after all posting this here so that people can tell me stuff like that

Since both colors are of different hue, i see no major issue. In your case, upping contrast might hurt the art..simply because your style is very unsaturated. Basicly,, just keep pushing with the walk cycle and tweak minor things later.

[Sohashu]

Good work.  Maybe making the boots darker to make them look less metallic.   Love the run cycle. 

[setz]

the jacket looks like it's bouncing around backwards; when one leg comes up, the open part shifts to the other side. wouldn't it be the other way around?

[ndchristie]

wouldn't it be the other way around?

but that would amke to much sense

edit: later

[AlexHW]

his left side (our right) looks stiff.
his right arm seems very active while the other is just wiggling. might help to focus a bit more on visualizing where things are moving in 3d space.
nice thread, i like how things are progressing.

[lief]

very nice.  the top of the head seems a bit strange with no pixel changes.  Maybe the highlight moving slightly to follow head contour?  Very polished animation.

[God Slayer]

very nice.  the top of the head seems a bit strange with no pixel changes.  Maybe the highlight moving slightly to follow head contour?  Very polished animation.

Whoah, it's you.

[ndchristie]

his left side (our right) looks stiff.
his right arm seems very active while the other is just wiggling. might help to focus a bit more on visualizing where things are moving in 3d space.
nice thread, i like how things are progressing.

thanks, and yes, that's something that occured to me, im going to try and figure that out in my next edit (is the reason ive held off the most recent stuff, im waiting until ive redone that part a bit)

the top of the head seems a bit strange with no pixel changes.

(hair/hats are a separate layer from the costume sprite)

basically, i dont intend to do any work with the top of the head, at least not at the moment, as the individual hairstyles and hats will be put on top of this, completely covering the top of the head portion.

Very polished animation.

Thank you

[ndchristie]

Well, heres a bit of an update:



still dont quite know what to do about the boots or the far arm, but things are coming along

Also, here is a shot of the character in an environment.  The gridlines can be toggled on/off as a part of the tactical overlay.  Personally i prefer the grid off, since it gives a more aestheitc quality to the ground...but the rest of the team wants to be able to see the grid exactly, so we compromized

the tiles also are up for C+C as long as it is known that that is only one tile type! (so dont complain that it all looks like the same kinda grass because guess what - it is all the same kinda grass)

[Ryumaru]

now thats just f'in aweseome!

[Helm]

OT: please please please make the terrain variations have tactical uses like modifiers for uneven ground, slopes, lower ground than opponent... the player doesn't have to SEE these numbers, but please convince your coders that terrain is very important in tactical games. Beyond just 'rock tile +1 defense'. This would be a nice thing to see in these types of games.

[AlexHW]

That's cool, is the ground a 3d object with a texture, or is it purely 2d? Just curious.
As far as that arm movement, I'd like to point out that the upperarm should probably disapear first before the lowerarm, not at the same time as it is doing currently.

[neverest]

is the terrain actually coded yet? looks like a mathematical nightmare! much much praise if you get this done, I very much hope to see it.
I'd suggest to keep the gridlines, but perhaps make them more subtle, a mid-dark green/brown, or perhaps a lighter yellow/green. Otherwise all looking lovely. perhaps in the run cylce his left arm could move back and forth a little more.

[Xion]

In the running anim, his head's gonna have a bit of horizontal movement, right?
The terrain looks great...but I agree that I'd probably find it impossible to play without the grid. I second Neverest on that matter.

Well, this is turning out wonderfully, and can't wait to see what the trees look like.

[ndchristie]

@Xion Night: the head at the moment is just a placeholder, but what would you suggest for animation?  to be honest im at a loss which is why i havent touched it

@neverest & Alex Hanson-White: The terrain is a very rigid 2d system.  We began with a piss-poor 3d system that was hard to code and hard for me as a spriter to work with, mostly because we couldnt find a program that would allow us to disable perspective, leading to crap like http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/777/wierd5im.jpg.  Our programmer has been hard at work night and day (i.e. a few minutes here and there) coding it.  At the moment, we are going with an 'imperfect system' that allows the player to snap rotate 90' at a time, and the terrain rotates and moves accordingly.  The problem is that im a bit lazy, so things will always have the same light source, because i dont want to draw every frame of every object and tile and character being lit from 4 different directions.

@Helm: I plan to have terrain play as much of a factor as possible in combat, but the more complex gameplay ideas are being held until the regular commands have been made to function properly

[EyeCraft]

Ahhh very nice! Though I think the uphill part facing the lightsource could be more highlighted or brighter, its kind of hard to make it out.

[DrDerekDoctors]

What system were you using that didn't allow the turning off of perspective then? Only it's a cakewalk in OpenGL and I'd imagine in DirectX, too. Anyhoo, the sprite looks most lovely so I'll be interested to see how this pans out. I'll also echo Helm's comment about having the terrain factor properly into the strategy.

[ndchristie]

Im just the artist, i dont know anything about how the game is being made, just what features i want.  Im more interested in the storyline and presentation, since thats actually something i can effect directly.
My biggest question is how exctly should terrain factor into strategy on such a close-in scale?  the ground there is uneven yes, but it wouldnt make too much of a difference in combat since the differences from tile to tile are small

[neverest]

Im guessing so that objects such as your little guy there ar displayed properly, your coders will have some sort of check in place to see how high each tile is. So at least it shouldnt be too hard to do a height bonus.

[ndchristie]

yeah we have a system for height, so we can do that easily, but beyond that i dont have many ideas.  im going to push for a 'solid' terrain system, so that an arrow or magic fireball can just go through things, but the problem then is that wed need a fireball pathfinding system, which would be tricky.
i dont really want to talk much about the game since this is ment to be about the pixelwork and id like to avoid this getting moved to the off-topic section

[DrDerekDoctors]

Pathfinding is a cakewalk, but you can probably just arc spells upwards so they simply fly over the problem areas.

As for how terrain affects gameplay, well hitting someone from above within reason can hurt them more (and from below can be less), bog terrain can be harder to cross (ie. less distance moved over it), lava can be impassable except to fire-aligned creatures or floating creatures, some classes can have odd bonuses like an earth aligned mage could draw mana/health as they travel over grass or other vegetation. The sky's the limit.

[ndchristie]

i dont really want to talk much about the game since this is ment to be about the pixelwork

[big brother]

He should bring his knees higher in the run, so it doesn't look like he's doing that Russian dance.

[DrDerekDoctors]

Doh! Didn't spot that first time through.

I like the character although the background needs some deliniation. I agree the grid lines are too heavy and maybe it's an issue that'll be solved by having different terrains, but the lack of much sense of directional lighting on them  other than a few bits doesn't help. Although again maybe that's because that particular ground looks wobbly just because it can be, rather than to a particular end.

[ndchristie]

no prob



i tried to take people's suggestions into account, and yeh the terrain is just supposed to be uneven, not going in any particular direction or serving any function, its so i can see what the different shapes look like together.

[sonic_reaper]

He should bring his knees higher in the run, so it doesn't look like he's doing that Russian dance.

This was a problem I noticed since you first started the walk cycle.  Incidently, I have no problem with his arms so much.  I feel that the leg is far more glaring.  Here's an edit to help ya out!  This seems like an incredible undertaking!  That's a lot to graphics to make all by yourself and at such quality.

[ndchristie]

i can, in a way, see where you are coming from in the shoe, however i must stress the fact that i have no desire to alter the costume, and that includes keeping the poofy pants.  if i wanted them to hug his leg, they would, but i want them poofy.  tomorrow i tihnk i will post the concept art i did so that people will see what it is i am trying to animate which is for all intents and purposes a silly costume.  thank you though for taking the time, every little bit of input helps.

i am curious, is there a reason you chose only to alter the right foot and not the left?  did you mean for me to alter both? they are going in pretty much the same pattern, so by my rreasoning they should be kept almost the same, no?

[sonic_reaper]

... ... ...

Ooookay ... I didn't alter the pants I simply lifted his leg more.  Before he was walking as if he were only bending his knee and stepping forward.  This problem was apparent on the right leg only (which is why I left the other alone, it looks fine).  I didn't even touch the boots, just altered the perspective on the foot iself a bit so that it would now match the leg.

[.TakaM]

looking pretty cool sofar, that terrain is insane man, one thing thats bugging me is I think you see too much of the underside of his boots in the running anim

[ndchristie]

sonic reaper, i have to disagree, i looked at them frame you edited and you tightened the pantleg so that it hugged the form.  if you are going to make an edit, why denie that the changes you made, especially when everyone can see the image?  also, i see no difference between me saying shoe and you saying foot, they seem to be the same thing to me, and like i said i can

see where you are coming from in the shoe

and intend to adjust it in my next edit, so im not sure what all that "..." is for

.takaM, yeah, sonic reaper changed that in his edit that in his edit and im going to adjust the feet in my next edit

[sonic_reaper]

You must have the eyes of a hawk :p  My intention was not to tighten the pant leg, it was merely to raise the leg.  I don't see anyone else commenting on in it so I'm not sure how anyone can "see the image".  You're making me feel guilty as if I did something wrong.

[ndchristie]

sorry, i didnt mean to sound ticked, i was just confused 

new edit soon with adjusted boots and trying to figure out how to make the legs look better without tightening the pant leg, and also at some point that concept art (but since this is a pixel forum, the concept art wont officially be up for critique though comments will be welcome)

[kerisu]

I like how you keep the light source the same... it's fun to watch the shine on the guy's head stay there while he turns around.

[Naso]

cant wait to see this all nice and finished and animated !

ps. i would love to edit this guy and use him as a base :S, may i ?

[ndchristie]

certainly.  if it is still recognizeable when you are through editing, please give credit to me (Nathan Christie) for animation base, and all the people at pixelopolis for their help guiding it

[Andy Tran]

 The tactics character looks great. One thing I am concerned is the hair. Any news so far of what the hair will look like? The character reminds me of ragnarok.

[Sohashu]

IS this still in progress.  I would like to see some more of these fabulous animations.  They give a nice feel IMO. 

[Gil]

The walk needs alot of work. No time to edit, but here's a few pointers:

1) The knees don't bend
2) The head bob is in no way related to the cycle, it looks like you just made the head bob because all animators have one in
3) The back leg goes back to far, the front leg not far enough

That's about it, loving it so far, really smooth...