AuthorTopic: FFT spritework  (Read 20863 times)

Offline Kagebunji

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FFT spritework

on: December 16, 2010, 11:41:56 am
I found out about this site not long ago, and decided to join. I come from FFH, like Lijj and Smash. I decided to post some portraits I did, so feel free to crit. If anyone could link me to some tutorials and offer some other nice things to read, I would be glad. I may sprite for one and half a year, but I still am a noob, thus I want to learn more about it here.(note: some of portaits like Titan and Shiva weren't based on any mainstream FF)

Shiva


Titan


Demetrius(custom character)


Female Cadet(generic, custom job)


I am too tired to post any more, only Lezard was left though, so you won't loose much, hehe(iit was my first portrait, clearly it looks bad...)

Offline Helm

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #1 on: December 16, 2010, 12:12:53 pm
They're quite well done, pixel-wise. They seem somewhat distorted, though.

Here's an edit with more width, it immediately starts to look more human.



And then I started thinking, what could he use to look even more human? How about a nose.



But then I thought about the hair and it seems he's a middle-aged guy, so that 8 year old face won't do. I added wrinkles and other wear and tear of age. He's looking more like a real person now.



That's a step in that direction but not nearly enough. He still looks *innocent*. Who is innocent on the battlefield.



This is for a tactics-like game, right? So it's war, there's war going on. This is an old man on a battlefield, he's probably seen some shit. We need his face to reflect that. Gone are the doe-eyes of innocence, enter the squinty eyed hundred yard stare of a hardened veteran. Also who shaves every day on the battlefield? You had those colors for the hair, so I gave him a five o clock shadow and I also decreased the shiny on the hair because who has time for conditioner on the battlefield.



Actually let's amp up the wear and tear, let's make him a real old man. Let's have his neck be hollow and his brow worried. Let him communicate something about what it feels like to see death around you every day.

And the final touch, let's pull in that left eye that makes no sense over there, let's put it closer, so the old man has proper depth-of-field view, probably an advantage on the battlefield.

This looks like a person now. A person with irritated skin, with hopes that he's trying to keep alive amidst the carnage, with a determination to see his grandchildren again, perhaps. He has a nose, proper eyes, a frail neck that tries to support his head in advanced age, he has dirt on him but he's keeping hope alive, no matter what they do to him, he's still human.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 12:14:36 pm by Helm »

Offline EvilEye

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #2 on: December 16, 2010, 12:15:02 pm
What you want to learn exactly? From browsing FFhacktics.com I gather they mainly edit other peoples work. So do you want critique on your editing or do you want to learn how to make sprites from scratch?

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #3 on: December 16, 2010, 12:28:29 pm
Ha! Your edit looks splendid, Helm. It doesn't fit FFT style one bit, but it surely looks great. Yes, Evil Eye, I basicly want to learn how to do sprites from scratch, if I knew this, I could draw unique hairs for my characters in FFT. I appreciate any help you offer.

Offline EvilEye

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #4 on: December 16, 2010, 12:58:28 pm
Yes, Evil Eye, I basicly want to learn how to do sprites from scratch, if I knew this, I could draw unique hairs for my characters in FFT. I appreciate any help you offer.

For the basics check out these tutorials from Alex Hanson White's page ( in pdf format ):

http://www.alexhw.com/pabbc1.pdf

http://www.alexhw.com/pabbc2.pdf

http://www.alexhw.com/pabbc3.pdf

http://www.alexhw.com/pabbc4.pdf

http://www.alexhw.com/pabbc5.pdf

After you get an idea of the basics you can post something here and we can tear it ap..... I mean critique it :) and slowly but surely you will improve to the point where you will be making killer pixel art :y:

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #5 on: December 16, 2010, 01:05:06 pm
Tear them apart, huh? Well, we got someone who gave very constructive and harsh criticism on FFH, so I guess I will be able to whistand your crits too, heh. I will start my studies right away. Thanks for posting these up. I am amazed by this site a lot, skills you have are really breathtaking.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 01:28:38 pm by Kagebunji »

Offline Helm

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #6 on: December 16, 2010, 01:28:57 pm
Quote
It doesn't fit FFT style one bit

We all have our influences that make us who we are. It is what we are showing in the page that makes our art singular, not our influences. FFT is not one of my influences. It is one of yours, but your goal should be to blend it with all the other things that make you who you are, so your end result looks singularly yours, not as if it belongs in FFT. It is not the first step in becoming a better artist, but it certainly is one of them somewhere down the line: if you want to be an artist (pixel or otherwise) don't measure your art in a borrowed aesthetic scale. Of course you will like some art more than other art and seek to emulate it, but it shouldn't wholesale replace your personal aesthetic.

I suggest that side by side with learning to pixel (via Alex Hanson White's tutorials or whatever else) you think about what exactly you want to express with your artwork. There's no tutorial for that, but if you want to make art that'll mean something to someone else than you (as opposed to them being momentarily impressed with it and then discarding the memory very fast) then you have to deal with that risky endeavor.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 01:30:33 pm by Helm »

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #7 on: December 16, 2010, 02:06:34 pm
Thanks for advice. You surely made me question what I want to express with my sprites, man. Just this shows that you are in pixel art for long, and you have great experience.


PS: I inserted your Titan version into game, it looked out of place compared to other portaits as expected, but it was soo awesome that I left it in there. Well the biggest difference you made to the portrait was nose, FFT portraits have no noses, and adding one in there is considered a blashpemy(kidding ofcourse), heh.

Offline Helm

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #8 on: December 16, 2010, 03:07:06 pm
I'm sure when the original artist made the art for FFT, he thought it looked cool to simplify the faces like that. However this style done once, in my opinion, is enough. New artists should let their own thing happen, not push themselves towards what earlier artists do. Blasphemy for me is to dream the dreams of someone else.

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #9 on: December 16, 2010, 03:22:26 pm
Hmm, interesting point of view, once I will be able to do something nice from scratch, I will surely follow those words. Though I am still not certain about a nose in FFT, heh.

Offline Helm

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #10 on: December 16, 2010, 04:10:11 pm
But that's the thing, you don't have to be certain or not certain about a nose in FFT because we're not discussing putting noses in FFT, it's an impossibility. FFT has been released, and it's out there and it's done and it exists and it doesn't have noses and we will all live with that. Even if you hack the iso of the game and you put in portraits with noses, you haven't influenced FFT's development in any way. It's a post facto hack, a commentary on something that has absolutely happened and you were not part of.

So, if you're not making anything related to FFT in anything but spirit, do you think 'no noses' is important for the spirit of FFT? I doubt it.

What I'm roundaboutly getting to and I'm sorry if I'm becoming an annoying pedant, is that there's a certain 'sprite editor's mentality' that sometimes I see on people that come in here from spriting communities, which leads them down, not exactly wrong (who's to say?), but certainly unproductive artistically, paths. Here's a few words you might want to reconsider from that spriter vocab:

base  -- in art work, there are no bases. You don't start with somebody else's work as a patron, you roll up your sleeves and you risk it and you put your own heart on the line.

custom -- in art work, everything is custom. The word has no meaning in the real world.

style - in art work style is not something you chase, it's something other people tell you somehow you have achieved. I still don't know what my own 'style' is and I disregard this line of thinking completely and just make my artwork.

credit -- you don't have to tell anyone to give you credit for your work because the credit is in that you made your art and it made you a better person. The pettier the spriter community, the more drama there is about who made what alteration and in which way to the original artwork. Actual artists - well most of them - make stuff and move on. Make stuff. Move on. Make stuff. Move on.

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #11 on: December 16, 2010, 04:44:41 pm
Heh, I surely will learn a lot here. So, you since we hack FFT, we can put in whatever art we want, aye? I mean mostly noses right now. And I will surely not falter now, you can be harsh, but I can take a crit, so it is fine. I want to improve, and this is the best site for this.

Offline Helm

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #12 on: December 16, 2010, 05:28:42 pm
Yes -- noses, antlers, space men, human situations and actual life interest, who is stopping you? Or you can just make your own game completely.

Offline sakket

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #13 on: December 16, 2010, 05:56:27 pm
Yes -- noses, antlers, space men, human situations and actual life interest, who is stopping you? Or you can just make your own game completely.
I have to agree here. There are so many things you can do with the same application of skills that are more profitable. Using the game (and modifying it) to advance your skills is fine and good but you shouldn't let yourself be content with sticking with just one game.
littleroller.blogspot.com

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #14 on: December 16, 2010, 06:36:36 pm
Hah, I understand it, but I wonder how folks at FFH will react to that. When I inserted your portrait of Titan into FFT, Helm, they thought it was either a great joke, or a serious, ugly portrait. It IS an amazing portrait, but people aren't ready for such drastic changes on there, I will have to get them used to it step by step.

Offline ptoing

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #15 on: December 16, 2010, 06:49:56 pm
Then you have tho ask yourself whether it is worth to potentially holding back your artistic growth for the sake of other.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #16 on: December 16, 2010, 10:53:55 pm
No! No noses in FFH! I understand some never got over the missing noses to this day.
I fully agree with this:
Quote
But that's the thing, you don't have to be certain or not certain about a nose in FFT because we're not discussing putting noses in FFT, it's an impossibility. FFT has been released, and it's out there and it's done and it exists and it doesn't have noses and we will all live with that. Even if you hack the iso of the game and you put in portraits with noses, you haven't influenced FFT's development in any way. It's a post facto hack, a commentary on something that has absolutely happened and you were not part of.

Hello Kagebunji

Offline EvilEye

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #17 on: December 16, 2010, 11:47:46 pm
I doubt if anyone on this forum didn't start out mimicking someone elses style. If that's what he want's to do then so what? Eventually he'll develop his own style.

I remember the no-nose anime style from Ogre Battle on the snes ( good game ). Probably the same artist.

Offline Jad

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #18 on: December 17, 2010, 10:56:04 am
Well, it's for a project, right? I feel I need some kind of clarification there. I mean, if it's for a project there is actual merit in mimicking style; if the goal is to modify the game in a way that tricks the player into feeling as though the original developers made the modifications, then mimicking the original style is a means to achieve it.

If you're making art just for your own sake, though, I'll agree with everything helm said. Well, I don't have anything personal against mimicking other people's style as a pasttime, 'dreaming other peoples' dreams' to me is an enjoyable way to expand your horizons. It's very sad, though, if that becomes the only focus of your art, but since you're saying you wanna make original art, I'm cool. Oh, and you've got a nice attitude, it's pleasant to have you around, kagebunji, do keep around ' U '
' _ '

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #19 on: December 17, 2010, 06:34:39 pm
For now I will try to do potraits and sprites from scratch, but mimicking the FFT style, yes. Later I want to move to something bigger, something similiar to Smash doing his Ramza art. I will read the tutorials this weekeend and try to learn as much as I can. Thanks guys.

Offline EvilEye

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #20 on: December 17, 2010, 10:31:03 pm
Well, it's for a project, right? I feel I need some kind of clarification there. I mean, if it's for a project there is actual merit in mimicking style; if the goal is to modify the game in a way that tricks the player into feeling as though the original developers made the modifications, then mimicking the original style is a means to achieve it.

In my opinion it's reversed. If he's doing this for a serious project then he should deliberately change the style, otherwise people will look at it and say "didn't this guy just copy so and so", and won't take it as seriously.

On the other hand if he's just drawing to get better then it's perfectly fine to imitate art that he likes. We all learned to draw that way ( at least I did ), and doing art he likes will hold his interest long enough for him to develop basic drawing skills. At that point he will naturally want to branch out into his own style. It's kind of like training wheels. Once you learn to balance on a bike why would you leave the training wheels on? They just hold you back at that point.

When you imitate someone elses art you are at the same time studying how they do things and learning to draw in general. Perfectly natural in my opinion. Style comes later at a subconscious level once you've learned the basics, and you don't have to try, it will just develop at that point. By the basics I don't mean the basics you learn in art class, but the basics before that point ( like putting a pen against some paper and making a line ).

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #21 on: December 18, 2010, 08:29:38 pm
People on FFH asked me if I could ask you to join our site. It would surely aid us to have as skilled apriters as all of you. I am just asking because I am sure you would do something amazing with FFT sprites, just like Smash did. I don't wanna link the site directly for some purposes, just type in Google ffhacktics and you should find us. Once you join, contact me or Lijj, we will get you around, hehe.

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #22 on: December 19, 2010, 05:07:59 pm
So far I am at the fifth booklet, and I managed to do FF6 sprite, I didn't have many ideas, so I just altered the base he did into something slightly different. I am currently studying the isometric art, and that really seems hard... Anyway, I wanted to ask if there are more booklets, since there wasn't much about sprites, and practicly nothing about portraits(these two are most important to me, heh). If not, perhaps someone could recomend some other nice tutorials like this one?

Also, the FF6 sprite(it could be better, I know, but like I said, I had no nice ideas)

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #23 on: January 04, 2011, 04:23:32 pm
So, no one has a single tutorial that could help me? Things that interest me most are ofcourse portraits and sprites etc. made from scratch.

Offline EvilEye

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #24 on: January 06, 2011, 01:39:38 am
If there is nothing in the tutorial section then just make something and post it on the forums. We'll critique it and then you'll learn from that. That's all I can think of.

Here is some art stuff I have in my bookmarks, it applies to pixel art as well.

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201665

This guy has a bunch of photoshop drawing tutorials on his website. Some of it slightly anime style if your into that.

http://www.idrawgirls.com/

Offline Smash

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #25 on: January 06, 2011, 08:05:56 pm
Hey Kage

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201665

Oh shit, this is way too helpful. A million thanks


I guess I could contribute back with a sketch I did showing "correct" FFT anatomy -Helps in understanding the people here coming from FFT land-
Click at your own risk:
http://i54.tinypic.com/14cefti.jpg
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 11:42:01 pm by Smash »

Offline Smash

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #26 on: January 06, 2011, 11:37:58 pm
Skeleton study for the lulz (Taking break from real anatomy)
http://i54.tinypic.com/a0ii6p.jpg

That be it.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 11:41:32 pm by Smash »

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #27 on: January 06, 2011, 11:53:11 pm
Holyshit! You're so great Smash. For a casual sketch this is excellent. Both of them. But the skeleton is just neat.

Offline Smash

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #28 on: January 07, 2011, 12:05:22 am
Not to hijack thread, but having all these FFT drawings being done, there had to be a ref to use.

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #29 on: January 07, 2011, 05:13:13 pm
Thanks, EvilEye, idrawgirls.com will surely come in handy. I should have something nice dony tomorrow, if all goes well. And long time no see, Smash. Make sure to visit us on FFH and tell us you still live after the hurricane, hehe.

Um, idrawgirls.com requires me to pay to use the tutorials? I can't afford that, haha. It's mostly about drawing anyway, not pixeling play. I found some strange tutorial there too called "naked manga girls drawing"... I am not interested in this kinda thing, heh.

Oh, and does anyone know how to make sprites SMALLER without making them blurry? Because Paint makes them very blurry and bad looking when I make sprites smaller.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 05:38:26 pm by Kagebunji »

Offline EvilEye

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #30 on: January 07, 2011, 08:18:42 pm
Um, idrawgirls.com requires me to pay to use the tutorials? I can't afford that, haha.

He has a lot of free videos up, here is one and there is a whole list of them if you scroll down.

http://idrawgirls.blogspot.com/search/label/Basic%20Tutorial%3A%20Anime%20Manga%20Drawing%20II

I'm giving you links to drawing tutorials because I don't think there are any tutorials specifically about pixeling characters in the style you want. You have to learn how to draw traditionally first and then translate that into pixels.

To make sprites smaller without making them blurry resize them using nearest neighbor or pixel resize or a similar option. Any professional paint program should have an option to resize without blurring.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 08:22:36 pm by EvilEye »

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #31 on: January 07, 2011, 09:05:48 pm
I really gotta learn how to draw? I was bad at drawing ever since I remember... Smash, be a pal and finish your grand FFT portrait creation tutorial, would you? It would help out a lot of peoples, including me...


Heck, tutorials about any kind of pixeling are fine, pixel is pixel, right? I oughta learn something one way or another, heh. Btw, I never saw tutorials on this site(I never have been on "main page" either).

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #32 on: March 09, 2011, 06:46:11 am
Rather than make a new topic:






     

















Offline SimTheDog

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #33 on: March 17, 2011, 04:08:38 pm
The shading around the neck is too dark in my opinion. You've shaded it as if he has a very big head. I don't know the members here because I'm a new user, but the last post with examples of your chosen style has sprites that aren't as darkly shaded as yours. Tone down the shading around the neck, and also make the outline that is facing the light source fade into the light source shading, if you understand what I'm trying to say. :)

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #34 on: March 22, 2011, 05:07:16 pm
If you could tell about what portrait you talk about, we would be gratefull, haha. It's been some time since I was on here... I purhased few tomes about drawing tutorial from friend. He got really great while using them, so I hope I will actually improve...

Offline Mezyrthim

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #35 on: March 27, 2011, 01:46:42 am
Looks like a good way to learn how to sprite.. I may join ffhacktics.. those Gifs are awesome too btw.

Offline Aelyrin

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #36 on: March 30, 2011, 08:16:46 am
I was pretty much just skimming the thread when I came across this little gem:
I really gotta learn how to draw?

... ???
You can't seriously think you can get away with making pixel art without being able to draw, can you?

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #37 on: April 08, 2011, 12:46:13 pm
You CAN do pixel art while being unable to draw IRL. It's just that once you know how to draw properly IRL, pixel art becomes like 100000x easier, plus your concepts become damn amazing. That's basicly it, I never escaped this.

Offline edu1337

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #38 on: April 08, 2011, 05:51:40 pm
You CAN do pixel art while being unable to draw IRL. It's just that once you know how to draw properly IRL, pixel art becomes like 100000x easier, plus your concepts become damn amazing. That's basicly it, I never escaped this.

of course you can do pixel art without any drawing skill, but it will be comparatively as lousy as your drawings

Offline Kagebunji

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Re: FFT spritework

Reply #39 on: April 08, 2011, 06:59:56 pm
Yes, that is what I meant. Thanks to the books I got though, I get better at drawing each day(it takes forever, but it's at least something). Just give me like ten more years to get good...