AuthorTopic: Green Tea (Read 17308 times)

David · **on:** April 06, 2006, 02:10:40 am

Really trying to finish this one. The comments and the critiques are welcome to make an appearance.

Alex · **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2006, 02:19:57 am

Well, you know i like the design already but i'm not exactly fond of the colours. They are just too david. I wish they were more vibrant. Thats my only complaint, sorry dude.

David · **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2006, 03:05:38 am

You could have just said that these specific colors weren't vibrant instead of going and insulting my whole catalog of work, jerkface.

Alex · **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2006, 03:29:55 am

Quote from: David on April 06, 2006, 03:05:38 am

You could have just said that these specific colors weren't vibrant instead of going and insulting my whole catalog of work, jerkface.

trying to get me banned? im cleaning up my act to please the high council dammit.

I like the new colours much more but they still seem so average. They need more pizazz, it needs to jump out at you.

Helm · **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2006, 04:04:31 am

I think your darkest shade before black is too close to it and gets lost.

AlexHW · **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2006, 04:25:54 am

nice, i like this.
The brighter tones make it look shiney.. but I'm wondering how it would look if you kept the duller tones but added some speculars to create a wetness to it. With the brighter tones, it would be hard to add speculars because the lightest tones are very bright already, and so it is looking more metallic than wet. I'm assumeing this is some sort of water creature since it looks like a squid.

Larwick · **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2006, 10:00:07 am

Wow, i love this, looks awesome. I actually rather like the colours, keeps it more sinister yet still with that beautiful underwater worldly look. Personally i preffered the first draft's colours (with the higher saturation in the highlight) I'll love to see it finished.

Conzeit · **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2006, 12:54:33 am

I like everything you've done so far. it reminds me of Boktai backgrounds, I think it's the fuzzy looking ink and the color selection.

I dont see why everything must be overly saturated so as to "jump out" at you, I think the color selection here fits the relaxed fllowing movmenentof the squid.

I'm only concerned about how you will aproach the tentacles.

make sure you dont use every shade on every tentacle, try to create some depth by being selective on which tentacle is highlighted and which isnt, strange as it may sound that creates better depth than using everything everywhere.

David · **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2006, 01:57:13 am

I changed a few little itty bitty things.

Zach · **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2006, 01:58:38 am

i don't like the torso deely, but the legs looks a lot nicer

Xion · **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2006, 02:51:30 am

Shazza!

Sorry, that's all I have to say. The new body structure looks great. I look forward to the finished product...alot.

I did, however, like the way the old tentacles branched out...like roots, it seemed to me.

Zach · **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2006, 11:25:33 am

Quote from: Xion Night on April 10, 2006, 02:51:30 am

Shazza!

Sorry, that's all I have to say. The new body structure looks great. I look forward to the finished product...alot.

I did, however, like the way the old tentacles branched out...like roots, it seemed to me.

it looked kinda like he was floating

Larwick · **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2006, 12:33:04 pm

Wow, i'm loving the new aspect. Awesomely freaky and imaginative. can't wait to see a finished product.

David · **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2006, 05:19:45 pm

Thanks to everyone for the comments and critiques.

Alex
You know I'm not trying to get you in trouble. Your comments on the colors are sort of harsh though.

Helm
I've fiddled with that color a little bit.

Alex Hanson-White
I've yet to try using speculars, but it's definitely on my to-do list. You're absolutely right about the current colors making it look as though it's made of metal than of flesh and blood.

Larwick
I may be reverting back to the first palette. Also, I'm actually hard at work finishing this which is a switch for me.

Camus
The tentacles won't all be done the same, have no worries.

Zach
I do like the torso.

Xion Night and Zach
The old tentacles were just scribbled down for ideas as to where to go, but I think you'll agree with me in that they looked really flat. Even if I had shaded them all I think they would have looked as though they were pressed between the pages of a book. Not only that but I like the fact that he's on land now. It harkens back to the original sketch ( http://www.latentmedium.com/images/pixel/crap.png ).

Larwick
Again, it's coming... honest.

crab2selout.png · **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2006, 11:19:05 pm

I knid of like the original tentacles better. They have this really neat flow to them that the new ones don't have. They fit the body more too, whereas the new ones feel slightly too large.

Larwick · **Reply #15 on:** April 11, 2006, 11:10:47 am

Yes but being a monster i think it's better to be as original as possible. Oh and i didn't mean to push you to finish it David, just my obsessive views ^_^

Andy Tran · **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2006, 04:55:15 pm

Actually, David's piece kicks ass. It just needs to be finished. Excellent, keep praticing David.

reydragk · **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2006, 07:41:53 pm

I really like how this is coming out, but I like the old legs better...

Oh well, it's a sexy piece of pixel-work either way, can't wait to see it finished <3

ndchristie · **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:04:51 pm

not to be a pest, but the new legs look flat still, and stiff too, like bent cardboard. i much preferred the old legs which had a graceful flow to them. these look to heavy

that aside i really like the upper portions and i cant wait to see this come out

Conzeit · **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:31:11 pm

I think the old, floating tentacles were much more interesting than these.

the old ones had a nice spiraling curve that led the eye swiftly towards the well detailed head, new legs are shabilly drawn and have a bunch of curves that dont really lead the eye anywhere, they are only distracting. Not only that but they dont fit the anatomy of the head in the least, they have senseless varying widths that wouldnt be reasonable in any kind of functional tentacle system, the wobbly varying depth also clashes with the delicate details on the squid's head which just makes it seem like 2 diferent images frankestenized together.

I know from what you have said that the new legs are supposed to be adapted to perspective, but the wild varying widths in them cannot be determined by any true sense of perspective, I also notice that they touch ground on two diferent levels and in that sense you could say they have 2 layers of depth, but this is only supported by the shadow you added and the shading you gave them, whitout that they just look like the wobbly badly defined limbs that they are.

if you really need the legs to look like they are on the ground so badly, you could just select a few of the old tentacles and move them up a little bit, have some of the tips bend harshly at a given height and give the viewer a sense of the creature standing.

http://www.newwavemugen.com/MVC2/ShumaGorath.rar here's a spritepack of an octopus creature that pulls of very well the illusion of standing, while still having beliveable tentacles, it's an archive of all the frames this fighter character has.

everyone, what's with the lack of depth in the discussion going on here? half of you expressed your disagreement with the change of the legs but none of you bothered to sit down and really break down what specifical aspects of it detracted from the piece, when did everyone become so afraid of doing good old C&C?

Dhaos · **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2006, 02:07:37 am

...tentacles... *bad mental image* ahem... I somewhat liked the original tentacles better (they had more movement I believe), however if you stick with the new tentacles, perhaps changing their stance a bit would help (maybe one could be arched extremely, another about to 'step' aka still off the ground, etc). The creature's design itself is pretty neat either way.

@camus: shuma gorath is awesome ^_^ I forgot about that site too *dls the rips*

David · **Reply #21 on:** April 12, 2006, 02:20:22 am

Again, thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond.

Xion Night
See below.

Zach
Yeah, he was supposed to be floating.

crab2selout.png
See below.

Larwick
I think you're right on the money about originality, but I wouldn't limit it to any one thing.

Andy Tran
Everyone's entitled to their opinion on the sucktitude of my art.

reydragk
See below.

Adarias
See below.

Camus
A special thanks for voicing your opinion so clearly.

Now about those damn "tentacles." The first ones were representative of the creature being underwater and they were just floating there. They're swirly and dainty, and I suppose good fun to look at. My major concern with them is that I've already done many things that have fanciful swirls that are entirely pointless. They're oldhat by now. I like to change it up a bit if at all possible.

The second set of "tentacles" are really supposed to be legs. As for fitting the anatomy, I don't see how you've drawn that conclusion. They do indeed vary in width, and they would make for some shoddy tentacles. They're not tentacles though. They aren't supposed to relate any sort of perspective either. The three in the back are supposed to be further away, but that's it.

As for your suggestions, I'll be honest and say I probably won't take any into account. I'm familiar with the sprite you posted, and that makes sense if the case were tentacles. I can give a little reference into my train of thought if you have a look at this screenshot from MGS4. I understand that a lot of people don't like the new set of legs, but I do. So nyah!

Though, I am not a heartless person and so I'll painstakingly finish two (!) variations of the creature. The one on the left is for everyone, while the one on the right is for me.

Dhaos
Yeah, I may have to change them around a bit. They're supposed to evoke a "ready" stance (like those taken by baseball or volleyball players), but people tend to see it as just unbalanced. I think it looks balanced...

Dhaos · **Reply #22 on:** April 12, 2006, 02:29:30 am

ooooooooh ok, I see where you are comming from ^^U. He's posing for us hehe...or for his target...poor target, traget is gunna die =*(

As you shade the tentacles, maybe you can add one of those brighter tones (that you used on the eye) to the top part of a few of the legs, to make them appear slightly glossy? Unless of course they're more hard and carapace like.

Regarding doing both versions, I don't really think thats neccesary, we're all just voicing our opinions. Your vision for the critter is whats most important in the end.

Tremulant · **Reply #23 on:** April 12, 2006, 02:38:32 am

Ah, and now you've made things difficult.

I was going to post yet another "I liked the tentacles ones better" reply, but now, seeing the new ones coloured and detailed... I dunno. It's a tough call.
I agree with Camus that the floaty tentacles had that nice, spirally, eye directing flow, but the newer ones are far cleaner, and what though I wasn't so into the torso at first, I'm loving how it's turning out.
Anyway, I now prefer the new one, so... yes.
By the way, is the part you added to the right of the head its mouth, or...? Looks a little to me like a head in profile, which would be pretty badass on the design front, imo

David · **Reply #24 on:** April 12, 2006, 02:45:04 am

Dhaos
I just make it out like it's going to be a big chore, but in fact I really enjoy doing both so it's fine as frog hair. As for highlights, Alex Hanson-White already brought up speculars which may achieve the effect you're recommending I go for.

Tremulant
Glad to see I've converted at least one person, haha. Yes, it is indeed a head. You can see it more clearly in the lineart.

Conzeit · **Reply #25 on:** April 15, 2006, 12:43:13 am

er...wow.

heh, it's very light hearted of you to decide to do two versions of the sprite, but honestly I dont think there's a point to it.What is this now, fanservice? dude, do fanservice when your check depends on it, not when a bunch of geeks want to direct the way you do your art.

if it was for seeing the swirly legs finished any one of us could do that...in fact I kinda did, I felt I had to see what I had envisioned in the sprite so I brushed in some quick shading.

so let me spare you the bother.

the whole point is that you understand where we come from and why the new legs dont really work, so you take that as a starting point for a new way to see the legs YOU want to do, no point in finishing a piece you wont care for.

There are many other structures to make those legs work, not just swirlyness. the point is we are all help you flesh out YOUR idea, the reason we all insist on the old ones is because it's the only alternative we know of, but belive me there's a true point behind the criticism of the new legs, not just flat nostalgia for swirls or something.

now, the MG Gekkou (MGS4 Metal Gear) legs? wow. I dont see that in the new legs at all. do you want to make a creature that spreads it's legs like a spider/crab but with Gekkou style musculature texture and feel?

the problem with what you got right now is just they dont really have a structure, they're not really swirly tentacles but they're not really anything else, they're just deform blobs that dont fit with the rest of the creature, they just look deformed because each one of the legs has diferent blobs at diferent heights for no true reason. I cant see how this creature would move, it's not moving in water anymore so it needs some sort of locomotion method.
try something like http://number-none.com/happycake/notes_16/HEX_render_101sm.jpg this or http://ewancient.lysator.liu.se/pic/art/d/a/davey/041.jpg or something, because honestly right now it just feels like you switched swirly locomotion method for just...scribbly deformed blobs
it's really cool that you've decided to get out of your swirl safe zone and reach for higher design elements, but that's not done by just not doing swirls, you're gonna have to come up with real concepts to put in place of the swirls, you cant expect to leave a safe zone by just stop doing it, that's why it's a safe zone it protects you from reinventing yourself, so if you want to leave it you are gonna have to do an effort.

Xion · **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2006, 03:20:04 am

Gee, camus, leave a little room for imagination. Not everything has to be suited to what we think of as locomotion. Perhaps it does still live underwater. It's body may be kinda heavy, so it floats near the bottom, pushing off of the seabed with its tentacles. Or maybe it's on an alien planet where gravity is lesser than it is here on earth, so what we see as traditional structural appendages may have developed differently. Personally, I relate the new legs to, like, a mix between seaweed and earthworms.
I can see quite easily how this thing could move...But not how it would attack it's prey. At least not on land. Supposing it is on earth, if it made a lunge for its prey, the bulkiness of its head would inevitably throw it off balance, causing it to just crash into the ground. But if it tried to grab with its appendages, it's quite obvious from its stance here that it needs all of its legs to remain upright.

...
Bah, I've forgotten what I'm talking about. Now I'm fantasizing about what kind of food this thing eats. Whatever you do, It'll rock, so no complaints from me.

Oh, and while I do see the new thing on its head as a beak, I see the face that Tremulant mentioned and agree that that, too would look cool.
And to agree with Camus, you reallly don't need to finish two. It'd be pretty...pointless.

Oh yeah, I like the new ones in favor of the old ones 'cause they replace the frailty generally associated with swirls with a sense of power, which, in my mind, is associated with random surges of growth. aka. the random bulbiness of those legs...limbs...appendages.

BTW, I really like the rightmost leg. (the one in the foreground).

Conzeit · **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2006, 03:32:27 am

leave a little to the imagination? I see it the completly opposite way =D lol

I think it's far more imaginative to come up with a system of locomotion than just sort of draw some legs that look good to you

David · **Reply #28 on:** April 18, 2006, 03:01:26 am

I'll respond to your comments later.

reydragk · **Reply #29 on:** April 18, 2006, 03:59:46 am

I take back my comments about not liking the way you were going with the new legs. that is the sex!

Conzeit · **Reply #30 on:** April 19, 2006, 04:00:13 am

just do whatever you want, dont worry about what we think you should do.

David · **Reply #31 on:** April 19, 2006, 05:07:31 am

That's what I did, Camus.

flaber · **Reply #32 on:** April 19, 2006, 05:12:20 am

again id like to say..
sexy

stil standing with some of my comments i mentioned earlier.
but nice to see the finished version

luff

Opacus · **Reply #33 on:** April 19, 2006, 07:27:06 am

That's not even sex, that's porn. lol
I love your work David! (Not only this one.)

Andy Tran · **Reply #34 on:** April 19, 2006, 09:37:49 am

Come on, feel free to express yourself here man. You can tweak him anyway you want him to be. You don't have to take my crits on it.

Helm · **Reply #35 on:** April 19, 2006, 03:00:14 pm

Quote from: Camus on April 19, 2006, 04:00:13 am

just do whatever you want, dont worry about what we think you should do.

That goes without saying. Nobody here is in peril of succumbing to peer pressure, Camus... Since you post here, it means you care what other people have to say about your art, and will take into account, and filter the critique and reach conclusions about what benefits your art.

Xion · **Reply #36 on:** April 19, 2006, 06:38:47 pm

Dood, that's freaking awesome.

Niss · **Reply #37 on:** April 20, 2006, 07:08:45 am

Hey it's finished - and looks damn sexy!
What I like (despite the palette) is that you managed to combine your free and in-flux lines with detailed textures. Loving it!

Tremulant · **Reply #38 on:** April 20, 2006, 05:22:15 pm

Much love for the finished piece. Especially digging the pallete and, for some reason, the little deals on the ends of its legs.

sonic_reaper · **Reply #39 on:** April 21, 2006, 01:53:37 am

I ... don't like the tentacles/legs. I've been the fan of the "head" but I think the legs aren't very well done. JMO. The color choices are and always were excellent but those legs ... very plant like. Makes no sense.

Xion · **Reply #40 on:** April 21, 2006, 02:08:18 am

Well, since the piece is called Green Tea, and tea generally comes from plants, I thought the plantlike tentacles looked fitting. That's actually why I liked the branching in the original tentacles...it was rootlike. It looked like it could be some kind of bulb-creature that would dwell in the topsoil, looking around with its bulbous eyes. A raccoon would wander a little too close and then it'd pop outta the ground and strangle the raccoon before allowing it's acidic cloud to dissolve the carcass enough to be digested.

...or something like that.

sonic_reaper · **Reply #41 on:** April 21, 2006, 02:21:25 am

Anyway, my biggest problem lies in the shading. Especially under the head - it's too thick and too dark. The lightsource and various shading on the piece would not indicate it would be so dynamic as for there to be a sudden "pitch black" spot. Here's what I mean;

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AuthorTopic: Green Tea (Read 17308 times)

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