AuthorTopic: RPG Case Study  (Read 10678 times)

Offline Olothontor

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RPG Case Study

on: August 16, 2010, 06:15:32 pm
I've been working, messing around with contrast and such. I recently started a case study of the old PSX/PS2 game Alundra, and my very first attempt after my research was a simple RPG-style jelly.



From left to right: Basic movement, basic attack, death, idle, and knockback.

I'm not at all happy with the death animation, but I'm not sure what I can do to spruce it up and improve. If Jad or anyone else with any animation knowledge please help?

Of course any other hints and tips are welcome. I'll be posting any further work on this case study, since I'm more than certain I'll run into a great many things I'll need assistance with. Thanks in advance!




UPDATE: Fixed the death animation up a bit, added an idle animation (yeah, it's supposed to look kinda like it's breathing), and posted the spritesheet so far for an easier analysis of the parts for those interested in seeing.

UPDATE: Added a knockback/jumpback sequence. Started work on the trolls of Sin.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 06:02:52 pm by Olothontor »
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline voidSkipper

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #1 on: August 16, 2010, 06:30:29 pm
I would assume that an RPG-style jelly dies when it is no longer able to maintain the surface tension that defines it as a creature. As such, I imagine an RPG jelly is somewhat like a water balloon, and can die in two ways:

-Evenly distributed loss of surface tension (eg, the jelly melts smoothly into a puddle)
-Catastrophic loss of surface tension (eg, the surface tension suffers a perforation and external pressure destroys the rest of the membrane)

Considering that most RPG jellys are low level, and therefore smote by physical impact, the latter is more likely.

Ostensibly, the reason your death animation looks off is because the creature loses volume in the middle of the frame, only to regain it as it becomes a puddle. Perhaps a case study of my earlier comparison would be useful. This has the most impressive aesthetic, I think, though this is probably more relevant (on a flat surface).

The walk animation is very cute, by the way. It has a lot of personality.

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #2 on: August 16, 2010, 06:42:57 pm
Ostensibly, the reason your death animation looks off is because the creature loses volume in the middle of the frame, only to regain it as it becomes a puddle. Perhaps a case study of my earlier comparison would be useful. This has the most impressive aesthetic, I think, though this is probably more relevant (on a flat surface).

Well, I figured since most jellies are magical aberrations and the like, their death would not resemble the classic jelly death. I want something with more character, and so what I went for was the jelly sort of eating itself and then splashing to the ground and dissipating. I think the membrane burst is actually a good idea, though, I'll mess around with that.

The walk animation is very cute, by the way. It has a lot of personality.

Thanks! I did try.
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline zez

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #3 on: August 16, 2010, 07:02:16 pm
Ostensibly, the reason your death animation looks off is because the creature loses volume in the middle of the frame, only to regain it as it becomes a puddle.
Well the rest of voidSkippers post is 100% valid, if you are genuinely going for an implosion / the jelly is eating itself from the inside, he really shouldnt magically regain all of his volume on the last few frames.
I would also suggest some upwards movement to make the animation appear more circular, and less like you are just removing pixels in a semi arbitrary spiral.

Offline CharlesGabriel

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #4 on: August 16, 2010, 07:44:40 pm
Wanted to clarify something... both Alundra 1 and 2 are for the PSX. The slime on the images are not from alundra, I know I've seen them but I can't recall if these are part of one of the packs made by this one japanese guy (can't recall, but will look for it) for the rpgmaker scene, or one of the rpgs for the snes / genesis... lol looks like Tenshi no uta quality.

Alundra:


I've located you the images of the slime of Alundra here:


By the way... what is this RPG case study you're doing? you mean studying rpgs graphicwise or going into other details beyond graphics?

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 07:59:52 pm
I have that exact image, Antifarea. It's what I used as inspiration in the first place  ::)

As for your last question, it's doing an overall study, since I'm making one myself with a few partners. It's going to be based off of the old Final Fantasy games and the Golden Sun and Fire Emblem series', but that doesn't mean I can't take inspiration from other places (like Alundra, in which some of the graphics caught my eye, particularly their buildings and scenery).
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline CharlesGabriel

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #6 on: August 16, 2010, 09:05:30 pm
I have that exact image, Antifarea. It's what I used as inspiration in the first place  ::)

As for your last question, it's doing an overall study, since I'm making one myself with a few partners. It's going to be based off of the old Final Fantasy games and the Golden Sun and Fire Emblem series', but that doesn't mean I can't take inspiration from other places (like Alundra, in which some of the graphics caught my eye, particularly their buildings and scenery).

Ouch for me. You made the slime yourself... I was confused, I thought you grabbed the image from somewhere else in order to get help study it. Haha my mistake. Anyways, yeah a lot of inspiration comes from commercial rpgs.

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #7 on: August 16, 2010, 09:47:23 pm
Updated with a new death animation (hope this one suits better :y: ), an idle animation, and the spritesheet so far.
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline buddy90

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 12:51:37 am
I think the death animation looks fine, but it does look like a popped balloon. As if the inside was hollow. But a slime wouldn't be hollow, and assuming the thing is thicker than water...

It's hard to say what to do to make it look more like a slime bursting, but, you could try to record something like that. Get a water balloon (or better yet, fill it with something thick like pancake syrup) and burst it, recording it ofcourse. Then use that as a reference. Or see if a video like that is on youtube.

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #9 on: August 17, 2010, 01:01:33 am
Perhaps if the slime inside was a different color then the membrane? That way I could show both the membrane and the fluid, and if I was careful, I could do it just well enough that it'd work with a minimum of visual confusion.

I'll see what I can do for you.

Anyway, added another animation sequence for being knocked back.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 01:49:55 am by Olothontor »
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline voidSkipper

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #10 on: August 17, 2010, 08:31:57 am
The new death animation is vastly improved, but I do agree that it looks somewhat hollow.

I don't think you need to introduce another colour if you which to remedy this - you are simply still losing volume. You have the membrane burst down, but during this the internal fluid should hold its form briefly before gushing outwards - the way your puddle forms makes it appear as if it is simply the membrane coming to rest on the ground.

 

Offline seanz5

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #11 on: August 17, 2010, 03:04:56 pm
Two crits:

The knocked back one kind of looks like to me like an evasive jump.  Sort of like its jumping back to dodge an incoming attack.  Not sure if I would see it differently if I saw the main character attacking it.  Perhaps less of a jump and more of it getting knocked back on the ground?  Not sure.

The other crit is with the death animation, I agree it looks much better the 2nd time around but I feel it does look a little watery to me, I think if you had it explode in bigger chunks it might look better, think jello.

Here after searching I found you some reference,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx2Bjedq7U8&feature=related

SeanZ

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #12 on: August 17, 2010, 03:52:17 pm
Ah! That should be very helpful, seanz5! I appreciate it.

As for the 'jumping back' problem, I noticed it too, but I'm not sure how exactly to remedy it. I guess knowing is half the battle, though, so that's a step in the right direct, at least. Thanks for the crits.
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #13 on: August 17, 2010, 05:02:47 pm
While I work out the kinks in the quivering blob, here's something else: my first attempt at something humanoid!



This is the Sin version of a Troll. They find prey by echolocation (much like a bat) and then grapple it with their tentacles, which secrete a paralyzing agent. Once it stops moving, the creature gets carried up... and then dropped into the maw located where the head and neck should be.
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline slym

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #14 on: August 17, 2010, 05:36:18 pm
That's awesome! Reminds me of a monster like that in one of those pikmin games :P

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #15 on: August 17, 2010, 06:01:33 pm
Thanks! Hah.

Messing around the with the featureless feet, because they bothered me....



Also added the troll to the original post.

UPDATE: Began work an a secondary idle animation (something I'll do to the blob as well to make the 'breathing' less frequent). Also updated the colors.

Trying to get started on the animation... currently I'm doing it bit by bit, starting with the 'head'.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 09:39:35 pm by Olothontor »
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline voidSkipper

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #16 on: August 17, 2010, 11:22:39 pm
As for the 'jumping back' problem, I noticed it too, but I'm not sure how exactly to remedy it.

It appears to be jumping backward because the motion depicted would only be possible by the creature's own volition. The angle of motion is up-and-back, but the jelly has a very low center of gravity. For it to be knocked back in that direction, it would have to be hit from below (read: punted by a boot or a golf club or something). However, if such an impact occurred, the bottom right of the jelly would be indented by the trauma prior to the movement - in your animation, the top half moves first.

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #17 on: August 17, 2010, 11:27:47 pm
Alright. I will fix the idle animation, the knockback, and the death ASAP.
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #18 on: August 19, 2010, 05:39:44 pm
I haven't had a ton of time on my hands, but I did find the time today to figure out the death animation. Hope it's a bit less like a hollow balloon now.

EDIT: Added a fix to the knockback. I'm still unsure about this, I'll have to see what it looks like in the context of actually being hit by an attack. I'll also work on an alternate sequence for when it simply gets hit (an attack that doesn't cause knockback).



« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 06:51:09 pm by Olothontor »
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #19 on: August 27, 2010, 12:56:07 am
Been quite busy lately, sorry guys.

Just a tiny bit of progress here, I started work on one of the varieties of Ent.



As always, critique is encouraged and welcomed.

UPDATE: Fixed the eyes (they're just sockets now) and worked on defining the limbs a bit better. I know the hands are two different styles so far, but I just wanted to throw each out there before bed and make a definite decision in the morning.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 01:46:48 am by Olothontor »
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline HC_Bret_Measor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #20 on: August 27, 2010, 03:26:20 am
I haven't had a ton of time on my hands, but I did find the time today to figure out the death animation. Hope it's a bit less like a hollow balloon now.

EDIT: Added a fix to the knockback. I'm still unsure about this, I'll have to see what it looks like in the context of actually being hit by an attack. I'll also work on an alternate sequence for when it simply gets hit (an attack that doesn't cause knockback).





I'm not an animator (yet :D) but I really like that death animation, nice and fluid, and looks like it will stick to anything it comes in contact with.
Keep it up

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #21 on: August 27, 2010, 12:00:06 pm
Hey, thanks. I appreciate the compliment.

Good luck whenever you get around to animating :y:
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa

Offline Olothontor

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Re: RPG Case Study

Reply #22 on: September 06, 2010, 08:44:23 pm
Getting around to character design now. The sprites from Elemental Gelade have helped greatly here.



I took a refined outline of one of the previous case study bodies and the outline of one of my own custom heads and began a test to figure out chibi anatomy.



I filled him in, failing to realize that the whole 'pectoral cross' thing doesn't work well at small scale.



I fixed this and slimmed his sides down, realizing that the old outline was based on clothing, which made him look fat xD.

And an overall test image for various things. Tweaking the styles I found and messing around with weaponry. Nothing final yet.

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." - Akira Kurosawa