Game Development Discussion

[Osteel]

Hello everyone!

Yes, I'm new here, and am in no way a pixel artist although I admire all the amazing artwork that goes on around here. I have two questions regarding pixel art in terms of game development (I'm a programmer) that I believe only you professionals here can answer. 


The first one is the big compensation question. Because volunteer pixel artists are practically impossible to find, I'm debating on 'hiring' some people to create some isometric tiles for me. However, it's the payment method I'm confused about. For something regarding a tile based game, how would you personally want to be paid: in time or by each tile created?

For something like time based payment, that would have to be negotiated. I'm more interested in payment per tile. For my game, I'm estimating (roughly!) the need for around 150 environmental tiles, not including sprites. Things such as texture tiles, greenery, rocks, random object: both single and multiply tiled. Now if you were to be paid per tile created, and had to create approximately 150 different ones, how much would you expect per each tile?


My second question is time. Even though I never post here, I'm visiting this forum almost every day just admiring the work people post in the WIP section. I'm most impressed by how quickly and nicely the professionals here make edits to people's work with such speed. So, if you were making tiles for an isometric game, how long would it take to make approximately 150 of them?



That's both my questions for now. I just want to say that I'm not advertising anything here, I've just really had the thought of hiring someone on my mind for a while and not knowing any pixel artists personally, thought it best to just ask directly.

Thank you for your time and replies!   

[Organ_House]

Speaking for myself I'd rather work based on time instead of per-tile. Why? Because some tiles may take longer or shorter than others. Based on other game projects I've worked on in the past, even if I wasn't the lead artist I'd still get paid per-hour. Also I'd think paying people per-hour would be cheaper in the long run than per-tile, depending on the level of detail, number or colors, size constraints, etc.

Lastly, concerning how much per-tile if you were to do that: this all has to do with what kind of budget you're working with currently. As the creator you should put forth the price you're willing to pay upfront and be prepared to haggle if necessary later.

[CharlesGabriel]

Well... I agree that it would be best to be paid by the piece. To me personally works well enough since I can make a tile in no more than half hour, so we're talking about $10(16x16) or $15 (32x32) in that time small amount of time, which if we would count that as a $10 an hour, I would be losing money whatsoever. Now, it's not always a win for me, there are tiles that are just waay too tricky and require some experimentation, leading to about double that time, or almost an hour... So it all depends the complexity of the work that you're doing. To me, I don't price my pixel art based on quality nor how many shades the person wants, etc... it's all about the canvas size and the estimated amount of time it would take me to make it.

I personally don't do isometric (Loooove Atelier iris, Stella Deus and Eternal Poison) but as far as me actually doing the art, I'm leaving that as one of the last things that I want to learn in pixel art, maybe I'll start practicing end of next year if I manage to learn most of the stuff I have in mind.

[Theoden]

It should be about $10-15 per tile. Although it depends on the detail of the work you require.
A simple tile can be drawn in less than half an hour. But some detailed tiles take an hour or more.
So 150 tiles will cost you around $1500.

[CharlesGabriel]

By the way, I'm just an intermediate artist... in my previous post, I'm only talking about what I charge... based on my personal situation (Any artist can charge whatever money he wants for anything he offers, just as how the employer can basically do the same). So yeah, some other people charge based on quality, etc. And well haha, 10-15 bucks for floor tiles is uber cheap man... I think I'm actually the only one who charges that little money for it.

[nitewalkr]

I was going to make fun of it and say "I'd like to get paid in gums, " but I guess everyone has answered this question. So if I am to make a detailed isometric tile set based on 64-128 margin for each room I am looking at what 3-4 grands?

[yaomon17]

Good lord, how did you even find this thread?
The answer to your question depends on a variety of factors including how much detail, how skilled/expereinced you are, how many actual tiles you are drawing (which then relates directly to how much time you are spending), and the big one is how frugal your client is 

[tocky]

i tell you this: video games are not worth as much money as they once were.

so you can find some artist who would work for free. but if oyu do this do not treat them as employees but treat them as friends.
so you can find some artist who would work for almost free. but if oyu do this do not treat them as employees but treat them as friends.
so you can find some artist who would work for minimum wage. but if oyu do this do not treat them as employees but treat them as friends.
so you can find some artist who would work for above minimum wage. but if oyu do this do not treat them as employees but treat them as friends.
so you can find some artist who would work for the amount of money their art is truly worth. but if oyu do this do not treat them as employees but treat them as friends.

-----

i have worked for people who allowed me no creative agency, such as Duckotaco who i met here, and my current housemates.
i have worked for people who have refused to contribute to the work.
and then i have worked for my friends, and this is better, because they treat me better.
more importantly, i have worked for myself.

i have met friends on the tigsource forum who would collaborate for free. but collaboration is a give-and-take.

for exmple a friend will not require that you work for free until you are dead, or near enough as makes no matter.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/tocky/brett.png
this is the correct way to talk to me. possessed by a strange will. knowing that i know things. friendly. apologetic. mystic. this is how i will talk to you.

[Cyangmou]

In fact you usually get what you pay for.
Means more experienced artists are more expensive.
More experienced artists tend to work faster and produce higher quality.

No professional works under his quality level unless:
 - it's not paid good enough / tight budget / time restrictions
 - or there are artistical restrictions which prevent the artist from producing higher quality

So if you are looking for quality you want to prevent those things.
Without a deal which is fair for the artist you won't get the best work he can produce.

--

150 tiles + size mean not much.

You could have 150 high detailled tiles which need animation or 150 tiles, which come down to 10 unique textures + gradients with a simple artstyle.

It's also hard for artists to estimate the exact time needed, even if the style and tasks are completely clear.
Just thinking about how long each single tile would take is work.

If you are on a low budget the question is usually if you are looking for quality or for quantity.
Both together with a tight budget means to intentionally rip someone off.


A hourly rate is fair (given that the rate the artist asks for is reasonable for the quality/production speed he produces at compared to other artists - that might be hard to estimat eif you are not familiar with the business).
However if you are on a tight budget should make clear what your limit is - professionals will try to hit that limit if possible.
It's also no problem to go to an artist and say: hey I have xxx $, what quality/content would be possible to get.
Or "is something comparable to xxx doable with that budget?"

Plus we are talking about game development and usually there are more assets and some edits required if development goes on. With a hourly rate it's quite easy for the artist to just spent half an hour on editing dozens of earlier made tiles in order to incorporate some changes - that would be complicated to do f it would be per asset payment.
Plus depending on which kind of game you make, your artist might have a much better insight in what's needed to make stuff good looking - which could look quite different than your outline (talking here of making stuff look "natural" so tiled environments etc., not so much about "gamey" symbolistic environments).

I sometimes have jobs were the outline doesn't make a lot of "artistical" sense.
For some of those jobs I'd chance the requirements if I'd lay out the underlying design to get a better visual impact.
However I also understand that the "safety" of knowing how much you will get for your money and restraining that is sometimes more valuable than just letting the artist do his work in his way.

Best thing to do: Go to the individuum/artist whose work/style(s) you like. Ask that artist what he/she charges. You will get a honest answer.

[tocky]

i am an experience artist and i produce works of high quality but i tell you this: i do not work faster. at least not when we're talking about pixels. i can thrown down text like nobody's business