AuthorTopic: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"  (Read 15542 times)

Offline xhunterko

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #30 on: June 11, 2010, 05:29:00 am
"I'm not offended.  I didn't make a judgement call about you as a whole like you seem to have assumed." *reads rest of post*

Oh. Well okay, thanks for clearing that up.

As much as I would like to argue with Nacl I sincerly hope he's kidding about not posting any more advice to me especially if I have made any improvement in the future. Though I think that if everyone thinks that everythings been said already that the mods can lock this one and the community can focus more on the other members on this board. Do the mods agree?

Offline Mathias

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #31 on: June 11, 2010, 05:44:04 am
Here's a suggestion - less dramatic internet babble and more pixelling. NaCl, loved your last post.


Since this thread contains 476,547,594 words for every image posted, I'll volunteer this graphical accomplishment in order to offset the unsatisfactory ratio towards the raster side of things.



I actually kinda like it. Top middle grove looks like a grape cluster. Those fluorescent trees are insane.


What? You're gonna gripe at me for ruining the topic or something? Haha

Offline bengo

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #32 on: June 11, 2010, 06:59:13 am
xhunterko: I think we can all agree that we want you to digest what we've told you, because I personally feel that all my advice has gone on empty ears every time I've given you it, even got me in trouble once because I was trying to nail into your head that its needed (fundamentals) to be a good artist, or else, its highly unlikely that you will get anywhere. None of us have too much initiative to help you, we're just doing it from the good of our hearts, or at least thats what I'm guessing. I don't want you to say "thats a wrap has everyone had their 'venting'? Alright lock the thread!", thats what I've gathered from your latest post, I just want it to get it through to you, otherwise, you're going to be at a stand-still for forever. Thats all you'll hear from me, no more pestering from me, if you follow through with our advice, you probably won't be on the forums for quite some time anyway.

Remember: This is about your individual improvement, we're just trying to push you to improve but only YOU can make the choice to discipline yourself and start on your actual art expedition... or you can choose not to, you do what you think is best for you.

Offline Jad

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #33 on: June 11, 2010, 07:02:15 am
Instead of locking this thread, which has not derailed into anything unacceptable, I'll just say this:



If you post more, please do give critique on this.

Given xhunterko's response to the critique he's been given, it's obvious that being too harsh will be contraproductive at this stage, so please do keep a nice tone. That should be obvious anyway. (being strategic can't be wrong. Some people respond better to harshness than others. Maybe choose where you'll apply it? It's not like people haven't been nice per se)

I have the feeling that xhunterko struggles more than most, so I'd like people to stop assuming that he's unthankful or lazy. I can't shake the feeling that people are misunderstanding things and I don't like seeing that turn into hurt feelings. That's how I roll, you know.

From now on, I'd let to see the thread take another turn with more crits and images posted - or it could die off. But not this argument where everyone vents in the face of xhunterko who then gets emotionally worked up. It's not a pretty thing to watch, just a miserable pile of misunderstandings.

(this also said because I think what has already been said is very constructive and well formulated. I fear that the thread would derail from here. PM me if you want to discuss anything related to this with me.)
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Offline zeid

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #34 on: June 11, 2010, 08:54:17 am
Fair enough, I agree if the thread keeps going in that direction it won't be constructive.

A scrappy edit;


Firstly Ryumaru's comments still stand.  There has been a bit of an improvement on the clouds, but you missed what he was saying about how they converge together.
Secondly you need to consider your light source, that's what the edit is showing.  Assuming you are going with the light position elluded to by the tree, the light source is behind the tree and on it's right (That's not to say the tree doesn't still needs a rework of it's shading).

It might be worth doing some shading excercises.  Try to shade a ball, and a whole bunch of other simple shapes.  Once you understand that you can move that thinking on to amorphous objects such as the tree.  This might help get you started.
lighting theory
Also the earlier link, .

Things not covered by my edit:

You need to put more consideration into your colours.  From a realism standpoint, colours become more desaturated as you approach highlights and shadows.  There are also rarely monotone shifts between one colour and another in real world situations as is portrayed with your colour selection. (see hue shifting on that earlier link).
That colour underneath the grass shadows doesn't make sense.  It's barely visible and I don't know why you put it there as it doesn't really represent how light works.

Also your line's need a fair bit of work. 

The grass (extremely) as well as the tree in some areas suffer from banding.

Don't bother with the dithering on the sky at this stage, get everything working together nicely first.  Dithering is used as a final technique, usually either to add polish or to conserve colours.
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Offline PypeBros

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #35 on: June 11, 2010, 11:36:43 am
Your tree has looked odd to me right from the start, and I only see your reference now, which happens to be a bonsai (right ?)



A key thing with that tree is that its twisted trunk makes a very odd silouhetto, so for us to accept it as a valid shape for a tree, you'll need very convincing rendering of its 3D shape, which your attempts lack so far. You can convey this through texture perspective or through lightning. Preferably through both.

"people will be caring too much about keeping the tree alive then caring about how ugly it looks" is imho a misconception.

I'd be tempted to add that on a tree, things usually go thinner and thinner as you move from the trunk to the "fingers" of the branches. At spots where this is wrong, you usually see a broken fork or something alike. That's precisely what makes the tree "creepy and interesting", but you need to provide that small detail that makes people realise "oh. There used to be a fork there", otherwise they'll receive your tree as "nah, trees never behave like that. This is made-up sculpture of someone who haven't blah blah blah ..."

Also, It looks like you're using straight ramps in your colors (that is, only altering the value), which usually doesn't work well for trees (or organic things in general) at all. It is more typical from plastic under articial lightning condition. Helm once posted an interesting remastering of a poor tree thing of mine ... lemme find it back ... ah!

There. .

Applying Helm's colours to your tree might not be directly useful, but comparing how hue, saturation and value evolve over the trunk gradient might help you.

HTH.

Offline Jad

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #36 on: June 11, 2010, 01:09:47 pm
I just gotta say that when it comes to the shape of the tree and the trunk:branches ratio, the tree right now is very nice.

Do consider the color critique of pypebros, but do not copy the mushroom anatomy of the tree. The one you've got right now is pretty nice - I'd advise to make the trunk more balanced, though, like pypebros said. Note how the bonsai tree actually has its root more in the middle and not really to the right like you've got. ' U '
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Offline PypeBros

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #37 on: June 11, 2010, 02:24:44 pm
. Note how the bonsai tree actually has its root more in the middle and not really to the right like you've got. ' U '

I also note that trees needn't to be balanced ... at least not what's visible. Because they have roots, you can see a tree popping out of a cliff (or a river's side) almost horizontally and then gradually reaching verticality. But that doesn't occur without a reason, and is very unlikely on a flat horizontal terrain without any other "competing" trees (or their remain).

Quote
do not copy the mushroom anatomy of the tree.
Don't, definitely.  :D

Offline xhunterko

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #38 on: June 11, 2010, 09:08:56 pm
Hey guys those are great crits. This'll definitly be bookmarked.

Hey Jad, one more thing, I got an idea to help newer artists. I don't know if I can post in it or not. But I think that library of free books that bengoshia posted and the one that Eyecraft suggested should be posted in the resources section.

"Don't, definitely.   :D"

I'll be sure and NOT do that when I do pick this up again.

See you guys around in a while.