AuthorTopic: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"  (Read 15543 times)

Offline Indigo

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Re: [wip] Small "god" game, "Crippled"

Reply #20 on: June 09, 2010, 11:43:26 pm
Quote
xhunterko, "talent" isn't nearly as improtant as willpower and dedication. Keep going!

Because you have no talent.

That comment was rude and non-constructive.  this is completely unacceptable here as our number 1 rule is "don't be an ass".  I've given you a strike.  Please correct your behavior in the future.

Offline Bieber boy

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Re: [wip] Small "god" game, "Crippled"

Reply #21 on: June 10, 2010, 01:04:28 am
Sorry, it was a bad joke. I meant no offense. I'll be more careful in the future.
God made everything out of nothing, but everything still shows through.
-Bieber boy

Offline xhunterko

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Re: [wip] Small "god" game, "Crippled"

Reply #22 on: June 10, 2010, 03:06:35 am
"I suspect you could actually be him"

Absolutely not! And I'm actually surprised at that. And I honestly have no idea who Bieber Boy is (unless he's someone from flixel or or The Daily Click, I got no clue, sorry)

"(line, value, form, perspective, colour)"

Thank you for that run down! I am fairly certain I have line and perspective down pat. I'd post some of my bird's eye view maps to back that up. I think I have form, but I'm not sure exactly what that is implying. Form as in basic shapes and objects? Or as in technique, control, other miscelleaneous? I know I completely lack value and colour. i'll take a picture of some of my community college projects later for that. Do I have my lackings acknowledged in the areas I need practice in? Or am I missing something?

(and yes bengoisha, I did read it)

Offline bengo

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Re: [wip] Small "god" game, "Crippled"

Reply #23 on: June 10, 2010, 03:08:28 am
"I suspect you could actually be him"

Absolutely not! And I'm actually surprised at that. And I honestly have no idea who Bieber Boy is (unless he's someone from flixel or or The Daily Click, I got no clue, sorry)
Sorry, he just uh, seemed odd, well I was wrong my bad.

Offline zeid

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #24 on: June 10, 2010, 05:29:07 am
Quote
"You didn't address the issue with the clouds at all, look you're still struggling with fundamentals in art"

Sorry, it won't happen again. Now someone lock this thread and ban me for a year before I insult bengoshia and get in another fight. When you start with off with that, I'm sorry but I don't read anything else you say.

Well, you are still struggling with the foundations.  To not read the rest of his comment because the first line upset you is just immature.  For all you know the next line could be, "OZMG JJ  Tht iz b3st Pic Eva!!!l!!11" and be completely serious.  Although it's closer too, "here is some good advice to help you improve".

In fact if you had continue reading and not been so quick to take it hostilly you would have read these parts:

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I'm not trying to be hurtful, understand, I'm just trying to be honest with you, I personally want you to improve, I'm sure most of us do
Quote
Really though, don't take this as a hurtful message, I did not intend it to be, I apologize if you did.
Fuk! he even apologized in advance because he thought you might get upset by his, 'bluntness'.  That doesn't seem very hostile to me.

Also his comment is littered with advice and why he has given that advice;
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You need to start looking at images for reference, you should probably be drawing lots of still life and you should probably pick up some beginner art books.
Quote
if you want to be successful you should put the pixels down and start working on improving your artistic ability.

Like has been said; take from advice and use it to better yourself.  It is very important to be humble when it comes to this kind of learning, if someone was to say to me, "You don't understand x well enough, get off the forums and go do more x studies in pencil."  I would take it into careful consideration, and in all likelyhood they could be right, that might be the best course of action.  If I continued to post on the forums, and kept making the same mistake they will keep giving me the same advice (probably more and more bluntly) untill they give up on me and decide I'm too stuborn to learn.

Quote
Thank you for that run down! I am fairly certain I have line and perspective down pat.

I'm afraid not.
Some good perspective examples;
http://kingfishers.ednet.ns.ca/art/grade10/drawing/perspective3.html
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/artt1.jpg

Some good line examples; (Helm comes to mind)
http://asides-bsides.blogspot.com/

Pixel art is typically not a good medium for learning art fundementals as it by nature encourages iconification.  There are often unique techniques in different mediums however it could be argued pixel art demans you use it's techniques more than in other art forms.  This is why a lot of people recommend doing more drawing when they feel you aren't capable enough on a foundation level.

This forums main goal is to teach pixel art exclusively, often however it ends up discussing other non-pixel related art techniques and concepts whilst helping people improve their work and skills, this is because you are never really finished learning the fundementals (so no you can't get them, "down pat").  What people are saying is, go out and research these different art foundations as much as you can.  Practice and practice, study art, then when you have enough of an understanding of general art theory it will be a lot better for your learning to post something up here.

Why not just post something up here and skip the part where you search for the theory?  Well we could all give you critique purely on the foundation side of things.  However you not pursuing it yourself shows a lack of commitment, and you would not likely follow up on learning what we would have to provided it for you (It would cover many a page more then you would have the patience to read, people write tombs on this stuff).

The point of starting to learn the fundementals is to be able to help yourself!  When you get a better understanding of them you can look at a piece of your own work and say, "It looks flat, the forms need redefining, the colours are incorrect, the line work is poor, etc."  Then you can make efforts to improve these things.  You will learn a lot quicker if you are able to know where you have gone wrong in your own art and what you need to improve on.  Look at some of the posts of the good artists; "I'm still having trouble with the perspective", "Still fiddling with the colours", "I need to do more anatomy studies", etc.  Also posts in response to pieces, "You need to fix the perspective", etc.  If you don't understand the language how can you hope to benefit from the discussion!
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Offline EyeCraft

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #25 on: June 10, 2010, 05:48:34 am
Okay zeid posted while I was writing, and has said much the same as me, probably in a more sensible manner, but here is my input:

"(line, value, form, perspective, colour)"

Thank you for that run down! I am fairly certain I have line and perspective down pat. I'd post some of my bird's eye view maps to back that up. I think I have form, but I'm not sure exactly what that is implying. Form as in basic shapes and objects? Or as in technique, control, other miscelleaneous? I know I completely lack value and colour. i'll take a picture of some of my community college projects later for that. Do I have my lackings acknowledged in the areas I need practice in? Or am I missing something?

The safest way to proceed is assume you know nothing. This is how I study. No matter how much you know, there's always going to be something else that you don't know. But you don't know that you don't know it because otherwise you would know! This is why basic titles like "line" "value" "form" etc can be very misleading. Generally most people know what a line is, at least in the most basic sense, so when they see the title "line" they think they know the entire body of theory. You don't. I don't. I'm sure of it.

Given this, begin with a formal study of the theory of line. Line leads to value, which leads to form. The analogy of writing is a good one: when you learn to write as a child, first you are taught the individual letters, then how to put those letters together to make words, then how to put those into sentences, then those into paragraphs, those into sections, etc. It is the same with drawing. People immediately try to write paragraphs before they've learned the letters. Lines are your basic building blocks. Thus it is here you must start. Then value.

There's an absolute brain-melting abundance of reading on the subject.

Try this: http://drawsketch.about.com/od/publications/fr/classicatelier.htm

But this is just 1 book. Read 10 of them! At least! Go!

A classic phenomenon: a person reads 200 books, they recommend you the one they just finished, when really they should be recommending the first book. To this end, I don't know how helpful any book suggestions I make can be. "Beginner Art Books" as Bengoshia put it. These are your prey.

Given my previous outline of the unknowable nature of knowledge, a full explanation of form by me here is impossible. Anything I say here only shows you things you will know here, it won't tell you what you don't know, and that is what is the critical point. This is simply something you will have to seek out, study and come to know. Assume this will take much time and reading from many sources.

Yes... this post turned into a pseudo-rant about the nature of knowledge. Normally I would just erase it, but I truly feel it is the central revelation at this point.

Offline bengo

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #26 on: June 10, 2010, 06:08:20 am
The Classical Drawing Atelier may be a bit rough for a beginner, but I would still suggest eventually picking up, additional things that can help you GREATLY:
http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm - Read this first
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24522437/Norling-Perspective-Made-Easy - This is for perspective, you definitely must learn
http://emptyeasel.com/2006/11/24/9-steps-to-creating-better-compositions/
http://emptyeasel.com/2008/11/18/avoiding-tangents-9-visual-blunders-every-artist-should-watch-out-for/
http://emptyeasel.com/2009/11/17/how-to-draw-a-portrait-of-the-head/ - Just a good tutorial on how to structure a head, you can easily apply this to other parts of the body, the whole figure, anything really!
http://processjunkie.blogspot.com/2007/09/best-figure-drawing-books-ever.html - You definitely want the Loomis and Bridgman books.

Theres tons more books out there but those should keep you busy. Look, basically at this point you have two options, you can either start dedicating some time to fundamentals, take a break from pixel art, or you can decide not to, either stop doing art altogether or keep posting here, but if we can't help you improve people are probably going to stop posting in your threads, to be honest if you chose this I probably wouldn't and any new people that would want to help would be turned off because they wouldn't see any improvement and even if they gave you the most helpful critiques in the world you wouldn't be able to wrap your head around them, so you'd just end up wasting your and everyone else's time. Once again I'm really not trying to be mean, I know I am pretty blunt but I'm just trying to tell you what would end up happening, i want you to improve, we all do, or else we wouldn't be taking this much time to do so. But as a lot of us have stated before, we can't help you unless you know what we're talking about.

Offline xhunterko

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #27 on: June 11, 2010, 02:45:29 am
Let me tackle zied first.

"(and yes bengoisha, I did read it)"

-Perhaps before assuming a persons character perhaps it is best to carefully read all of what has previously gone before and then perhaps you may have a right to judge a persons character and personality.

"For all you know the next line could be, "OZMG JJ  Tht iz b3st Pic Eva!!!l!!11" and be completely serious."

-Really? Seriously? Honestly? Why on earth did you bother to continue to post after writing That line? You are a (i think, though I'm not too certain) senior member of the board who has been here or has visited since some of the early days when it started. You know this is a serious art board and that people who post here are well mannered and mature folk and would not slip into such nonsense. If you had looked at some of my threads before you should know that I never expect anyone to ever say that about anything I post and I always know that I need help before I post anything.

"(It would cover many a page more then you would have the patience to read, people write tombs on this stuff)."

-So you can instantaneously look at a person and decide on their temperament and form of judgement? Wow, I wish I could do that! While your points may be valid, Eyecraft did things in a much more acceptable manner. As a senior member of this board that I do respect, I did not expect such a shallow misconception of a person that you just portrayed.

Those are, however, good line example links. I'll be looking at helm's stuff now for a while.

@Eyecraft:
"Yes... this post turned into a pseudo-rant about the nature of knowledge. Normally I would just erase it, but I truly feel it is the central revelation at this point."

Ack! I'm glad you didn't! And honestly I think you wanted to say more but wanted to keep it short. Long posts generally contain the most information and are the most helpful. One of the things that bugs me about the internet is that on some or most places people don't read anything and just glaze over it.

About that book. I'm sure I could find it in a barne's and nobles/borders somewhere and look through it before I wanna buy. If only they had a black bar edition. I don't feel comftable about looking at any form of nudity at all regardless of the intent. Or at best, just not splayed prominently on the front cover.

@bengoisha:
I can still post and give others critique right? There's nothing from stopping me from doing that. And wow! What a library! So about a weekend or two a read should get me done about, uh, Febuary next year? *cough jk cough* You know though, your comments and I think something that someone else said brought to my mind a myth(i think it is) that I remember from a while ago about 3d modelers and artists. I have started a thread in General discussions about it after this post.

@zied again:
I did not mean to be offensive if I was. I just didn't think that you had a good understanding of what kind of person I am.

Offline NaCl

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #28 on: June 11, 2010, 04:17:44 am
This is getting kind of ridiculous. Every one of xhunter's threads turns into a long tirade of great advice he never follows/understands. Ko, there seems to be a large divide between how good you are, and how good you think you are. You get so easily offended at anyone who gives advice in a truthful and blunt manner because it threatens this position. Put aside your ego, and start doing what you need to to improve. Because you certainly have not since you came here. This will be my last post of advice to you. Good luck, hope you get something from it.

And also, look at some naked women. You're 26, it's time, ha ha.

Offline zeid

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Re: [wip] Small game, "Crippled"

Reply #29 on: June 11, 2010, 05:02:44 am
 :sigh:
xhunterko I'm just going to point out that you just made a judgement call about me as a person based on a few lines of text;  the judjement being that I'm the type of person who makes judgement calls of people based on a few lines of text...

Quote from: xhunterko
I did not mean to be offensive if I was. I just didn't think that you had a good understanding of what kind of person I am.
I'm not offended.  I didn't make a judgement call about you as a whole like you seem to have assumed.

All I said was that I found this comment immature;
Quote from: xhunterko
Sorry, it won't happen again. Now someone lock this thread and ban me for a year before I insult bengoshia and get in another fight. When you start with off with that, I'm sorry but I don't read anything else you say.

Too that comment I said;
Quote from: zeid
To not read the rest of his comment because the first line upset you is just immature.
You said to me in response;
Quote from: xhunterko
before assuming a persons character... it is best to carefully read all of what has previously gone before and then... you may have a right to judge a persons character and personality

So what you and I are both saying is a person should read all of what someone else has to say, so that they don't take things out of context.  Do you see how this comment;
Quote from: xhunterko
When you start with off with that, I'm sorry but I don't read anything else you say
could be construde as being completely at odds with what you just proposed about not taking things out of context and reading everything that is there.

Quote from: xhunterko
Quote from: zeid
For all you know the next line could be, "OZMG JJ  Tht iz b3st Pic Eva!!!l!!11" and be completely serious.

-Really? Seriously? Honestly? Why on earth did you bother to continue to post after writing That line?
Because I had a lot more things to say that I felt would be to your benefit.  I think you read into that comment way too much...  This forum isn't here to massage ego's, in fact if anything it does the opposite.

Quote from: zeid
It would cover many a page more then you would have the patience to read, people write tombs on this stuff.
Let me just elaborate on my statement;  People have dedicated the entirety of their lives to art.  There is also a difference between learning art theory and being good at art.  Even if we did write several hundred thousand million gagigazzilion pages (maybe an exaggeration but it would be too much for any one person to take in, unless they were made of magic and crapped unicorns) or for that matter knew everything there was to know, you nor would I expect any beginner artist be able to take even a fraction of it in without actively exploring the discussed writtings in a practical manner.  This is why people keep telling you to DO SOME DRAWING!  

Quote from: xhunterko
So you can instantaneously look at a person and decide on their temperament and form of judgement?  Wow, I wish I could do that! While your points may be valid, Eyecraft did things in a much more acceptable manner.
See my first sentence. Why should I have to tip toe around what I'm trying to say.  You clearly don't feel the need to put things mildly, what with that offhand remark about how judgemental I am.

EyeCraft gave good advice, his a smart cookie so it's to be expected.  He also said;
Quote from: EyeCraft
Okay zeid posted while I was writing, and has said much the same as me, probably in a more sensible manner

Quote from: xhunterko
As a senior member of this board that I do respect, I did not expect such a shallow misconception of a person that you just portrayed.
My standing on this message board, whatever it may be should not have any bearing on the way I am treated, or the way I act towards others.  Everyone is an equal, should be treated with equal respect and expect equal respect in return.

Quote from: xhunterko
people who post here are well mannered and mature folk and would not slip into such nonsense
:P No we aren't!  :D  Okay, we are most of the time.  But we do slip into said nonsense, if just for fun.

And to everyone, sorry for getting a bit off topic.  But I personally am of the opinion that these things are important to say.  The mindset of an artist is just as important to attain as the skillset, so when I feel my remarks are being taken out of context/missread, I try and correct others readings and encourage them to think about them a little more.


Edit:
NaCl, got in just before me. :P
Quote from: zeid
If I continued to post on the forums, and kept making the same mistake they will keep giving me the same advice (probably more and more bluntly) untill they give up on me and decide I'm too stuborn to learn.
Quote from: NaCl
Put aside your ego, and start doing what you need to to improve. Because you certainly have not since you came here. This will be my last post of advice to you. Good luck, hope you get something from it.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 05:25:38 am by zeid »
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