another - small image dump.

[baccaman21]

Along similar lines to pawiges thread... (I've actually moved this from there for reasons of bad form... so oops... and soz)

...some bonus pickups from a game I made in the early 90's called "Sgt Seymour: Robotcop"



some of these are rather english in their origins - like the road signs for instance, or the sweets/candy... it was a good excercise in using 16 colors... that's for everything...!

Enjoy...

[Lick]

It's clear that you made those back in the 90's, hehe. Not to sound offending, but critic would be the strange shading (pillow-ish) and the werid highlights on some pieces. Perhaps a good exercise to edit them into the new millenium?

[Matriax]

For made in 90's the looks is very good, and after view the works of baccaman i sure he can increase the quality of this 

[baccaman21]

For made in 90's the looks is very good, and after view the works of baccaman i sure he can increase the quality of this 

thanks... I'm not sure if that's a compliment or not - I guess it is

It's clear that you made those back in the 90's, hehe. Not to sound offending, but critic would be the strange shading (pillow-ish) and the werid highlights on some pieces. Perhaps a good exercise to edit them into the new millenium?

Hey no offense taken... - I think the thing you gotta bear in mind is that we had 16 colors to make the entire game sprites in (can't remember about the bg's - someone remind me of the amiga pallette limitations please)... if I were to edit them for 'the new millenium' i'd probably go for mulitple 16 colour pallettes as we have the option for that these days, or alternatively knock the whole lot into 256 colors. but then... where's the challenge in that?... and besides - I'm not going to... so ner!

You guys have it sooo easy these days... what I'd have given for 256 colors and or mulitple sprite pallettes... cool graphic editors... the INTERNET with forums to chat about your work with peers... would have made life sooo much easier. I reckon I should set you a challenge to have a go at some real limited pallette stuff... say like we had on the spectrum... 2 colors only per 8x8 pixel square... with a choice of 8 colors... like say some old loading screens or summat... yum! (now I AM sounding old!) lol

(pretty shit by todays standards...addmittedly but hey... 2 colors per character square!)
(I just did the logo on this one - the main image was a chap called Chris Graham - lord alone knows what he's upto now?)

As far as 'pillow shading' is concerend... well that term never existed in my day (god I sound old) lol... but you're right I suppose... again, in my defense, this was made in super quick turnaround - where we'd be bashing games out rapidly, 2 months... maybe 3... whilst also working on mulitiple projects across mulitple platforms. Hey ho.

...
...

now where did I put me pipe and slippers... ?

[Kennethfejer]

what? no marmite bonus pickup 
looks great, 16 colors is pretty impressive for all those items.

the spectrum stuff looks really good as well, specially with all those limitations.
...to be honest, i think developing for the GBA, can be quite difficult at times, but then again.. im probably just spolied working on javagames, where colorcount doesn't really matter.

[Nix]

could you post your pallate please

[Sdw]

(can't remember about the bg's - someone remind me of the amiga pallette limitations please)...

Amigas (or atleast the good old pre-AGA OCS/ECS Amigas like A500) had 32 color palette (64 if you ran in halfbrite mode, or two separate 16-color palette if you ran dual-playfield). I can't recall how hardware sprites worked, I think you had only 8 or 16 colors, but they were not used all that much, most objects in games were BOBs (Blitter Objects) where you actually wrote data to the same bitplanes as the background is. Anway, so for most games you had a 32 color palette, shared between background and movable objects.

[baccaman21]

(can't remember about the bg's - someone remind me of the amiga pallette limitations please)...

Amigas (or atleast the good old pre-AGA OCS/ECS Amigas like A500) had 32 color palette (64 if you ran in halfbrite mode, or two separate 16-color palette if you ran dual-playfield). I can't recall how hardware sprites worked, I think you had only 8 or 16 colors, but they were not used all that much, most objects in games were BOBs (Blitter Objects) where you actually wrote data to the same bitplanes as the background is. Anway, so for most games you had a 32 color palette, shared between background and movable objects.

ah ha... thnx for that... I knew it was something along those lines... ta !

could you post your pallate please

I've added it to the image in the original post...

what? no marmite bonus pickup 
looks great, 16 colors is pretty impressive for all those items.

the spectrum stuff looks really good as well, specially with all those limitations.
...to be honest, i think developing for the GBA, can be quite difficult at times, but then again.. im probably just spolied working on javagames, where colorcount doesn't really matter.

No sooner said than done kenneth... (added to original post (see above))

Cheers for the compliment on the old speccy art... may I return that compliment by commenting on your work - superb stuff I may say... love the kid icarus stuff, (one of the guys at my last place did a DS kid icarus design that really rather nice...)  was gonna get in touch with glu at some point soon about freelance work - but it seems I've just landed a new role (today in fact) having been out of work for 5 months... Very pleased... on next gen console... looks like I'm gonna have to dust down my 3D overalls... boooo hisss... which also means I'm gonna be frequenting this place a little less often... shame, just as I was starting to get the feel of the place.

[Nix]

make tutorials!!!! lol. i like the sign posts best

[reydragk]

One thing I think a lot of the guys on this forum seem to forget is that the reason the sprites are pillowshaded is because in an actual game it'd greatly increase the number of sprites required to keep a consistent lightsource, from a production standpoint pillowshading makes a lot more sense...

[sonic_reaper]

One thing I think a lot of the guys on this forum seem to forget is that the reason the sprites are pillowshaded is because in an actual game it'd greatly increase the number of sprites required to keep a consistent lightsource, from a production standpoint pillowshading makes a lot more sense...

Unfortunately in of itself this post makes no sense.  Pillowshading isn't even real shading since there's no defined lightsource.  A lightsource should be selected before any graphics progress is made in a 2D game and it should always be consistent.  For example, the simplest is top-down.  I don't see how you'd run into any problems if you went with a top down light source.

I don't have any problem with the shading of the pieces in question.  They look quite edible actually.

[Aleiav]

I'm not really wise on the types of pallates for game systems, but is that a basic or most often used 16 color pallate? I've always wanted to use these types of pallate restrictions but I didn't really know where to get a basic 16 color pallate that games would use.

These peices are wonderful with the color restriction. Well done!

[Helm]

Pallate? Palette?

reydragk, what you said is wrong (for the reasons reaper explains), and it's good that there's a forum such as this that can at least basically present the case that pillowshading is bad across the board, unlike that sonic stadium whatever community I was linked to a while back, where there's actually a PILLOWSHADING TUTORIAL of all things. And also, ADVANCED PILLOWSHADING for when you know, you're not making art wrong enough.

[Tremulant]

And also, ADVANCED PILLOWSHADING for when you know, you're not making art wrong enough.

Hahaha Amazing. You're now my hero. But on to the actual artwork...

Maybe I'm not looking closely enough, but aside from the stars at the end, I'm not seeing a whole lot of pillowing going on here.
Anyway, I like these. I think they show really impressive versatility considering it's not only a 16 colour pallette, but also that there're only 2 shades of each colour, and there must be well over a hundred little guys on this sheet.

[Helm]

http://ssn.sonicstadium.org/index.php?sid=tutorials&id=Intermediate&page=pillowindex

wish I was joking.

ADVANCED:

http://ssn.sonicstadium.org/index.php?sid=tutorials&id=Advanced&page=realhead

[Ryumaru]

XD i too wish you were joking. i think just by looking at those i died a little inside

[.TakaM]

oh man.. thats awesome helm

[baccaman21]

Thanks for the comments peeps...

I hoenstly think that this business about 'pillow shading' is a little obsessive though... surely, it's a style choice in some instances?! - sure agreed, it ain't the most asthetically of pleasing for the most part, but, design wise it can be used effectively. Take those stars for instance - you're not actually seeing them as they were meant to be seen in game...

here...
take a look... (Super bonus, to give you additional powers... how to make them more 'spangly'- color cycle them!)
and these too... (placed UNDER the player sprite to indicate invincibility)

these wouldn't work of they weren't 'pillow shaded' - so as a technique, it does have its uses... 

One thing I think a lot of the guys on this forum seem to forget is that the reason the sprites are pillowshaded is because in an actual game it'd greatly increase the number of sprites required to keep a consistent lightsource, from a production standpoint pillowshading makes a lot more sense...

That ain't quite true reydragk, - Pillowshading, Lightsource? Neither of these bear no relevance to me when I'm knocking out sprites... I've never insisted the lightsource remain consistent in the games I've been involved with... it can't be... not in 2d sprite based games at any rate... this is an obsessive thing you guys get all flustered about... not that there's anything wrong with if you're created one off pieces of work... but making a game with all those sprites, and background tiles etc etc... is time consuming enough with havgin to worry to much about shading it "correctly"... (note the inverted commas) 

Having said that consistency IS important though... in most games one has to limit the amount of graphics one makes because of space limitations (on the cartridge for example) - or time restrictions (reduce frames, colors etc to get all the work done in time) - and here's the BIGGY - the one that makes me not overaly concerend abou tthe consistency of the light source is .... drum roll... THE X-FLIP!! - that's to say that all animations would be created facing in one direction only (if it's side on view), sure, we'd keep the lightsource consistent, (I normally put it top right, with my characters facing right) - and then x-flipped... so what happens then...? - all the shadows flip too (obviously) - "his gun's just swapped to his left hand" - " his eyepatch has swapped sides" (Sagat) - yes the x-flip... that's what saves time... no point in developing sprites in both directions, with 'correct shading' when you've a game to get out in 3 weeks...

I'm sure most of you know this? and I can hear you say...well put the shadow directly above the player.... yack... not nice... sometimes asthetics takes precedence over 'reality'

[sonic_reaper]

surely, it's a style choice in some instances?!

I REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS 

Animation's a whole nother monster -- as are "effects".  Classifying "pillow-shading" as a "stylistic" choice means you either can't shade, you don't want to learn, or you're retarded.

[Ryumaru]

XD, i agree with said post

[baccaman21]

surely, it's a style choice in some instances?!

I REFURE TO ACCEPT THIS 

Animation's a whole nother monster -- as are "effects".  Classifying "pillow-shading" as a "stylistic" choice means you either can't shade, you don't want to learn, or you're retarded.

Oo controversy... whilst I accept what you say to a point... they're still pillowshaded no matter what you say... so it does have it's uses... in animations effects... whatever... retarding thinking or not, personally I would say that refusing to accept a technique has no merit is plain shortsightedness... it comes down to fashion and peer pressure... if I wanted to pillowshade something because I felt that that's what that particular thing required then I'd do it... I wouldn't NOT do it because I'd be chastised as being a lesser artist or not knowing my beans - Style & Asthetic is pure subjective. I'm neither retarded, incapable of learning and CAN shade... so by using such a techinique and flying in the face of conformity - for me - is more creative than following the herd.

[sonic_reaper]

While I was joking to some extent I will rebut my actions.  What you did was an animation, more specifically an effect that cycles colors in a loop inside the star shape.  It just happens that in a still frame it would be classified as "pillow-shading", however, the star itself will never be used as such in game, as it would be animated rather.

To actually go out of ones way to shade using "that technique" shows a lack of knowledge.  Why would anyone pillow shade?  There's no reason to.  And again, the animation doesn't apply to those rules, but I already explained that above.

I don't feel there's much use getting too much into this.  I don't condone the use of said technique.  If you're fine with it -- that's okay.  I don't know why you're going on about conformity -- I hate dithering and I would NEVER use it, but that's not because I'm going against a popular trend, more so just hate the style.  However, I acknoledge it can look very good and it has its uses.  Pillow shading is more or less useless and it looks like ass all the time.

[baccaman21]

That's cool sonic... I get what your saying...

[sonic_reaper]

Oh, okay, well it was weird how the topic came up.  Since none of the sprite use pillow-shading.  They're well designed and well shaded and it's especially impressive with a restricted palette of only 16 

[baccaman21]

lol... yeah twas weird that.. hey! Alls well that ends well...

[Niss]

ADVANCED PILLOWSHADING for when you know, you're not making art wrong enough.

THAT "tutorial" was really really brutal. I mean you warned us and all but still... damn curiousity

Yeah the english have some rather funny signs now and then. When I was in scotland (ok let's say the uk have some funny signs) there was this "beware of old people" sign. It was a pictorial sign and not unique - two ... maybe old people or yodas with sticks... totally cracked me up.
Than there's this guy on the yellow sign. All kind of bad things happen to him: from lightning hits to train accidents - you name it. That the guy is black is of course only for designs sake (it's not the states after all - just kidding)

the spectrum pics are quite nice btw

[Turbo]

Pillow shading is perfectly acceptable, if done right and choosen consciently. It's wrong if that's the only way one can shade (more like imitate the ability to shade).
Look at all those models in photoshoots with front lighting, those looks good.

[Helm]

That's not pillow shading, that's front lighting.

[Turbo]

Tomayto and Tomahto? Technically the same, imho. Stars on baccaman's first post use front lighting then (unless it's the area occupied by the gradient that you're worrying about in making the distinction).

[Pawige]

Sorry to continute the derail, but front lighting is definitely not the same as pillow shading. Lets pretend we're shading someone's face with a lightsource on the camera. The cheekbones would stay light until the angle got steep enough, but the cheeks would darken relatively slowly, as they're not as steep. A pillow shader (new term?) would just do a single gradient to the outline. I don't think the stars are pillow shaded, to me they look like a translucent object with an inner lightsource.

Back on topic, the variety of powerups here is interesting, I've never seen a game with a playing card or road sign as a pickup. What was the gameplay like?

[baccaman21]

Twas a single screen arcade game... had elements of tumblepop, parasol stars, flicky, dig dug, bionic commando and an old intellivision game called lock and chase... set in a maze, with a Baddie Generator somewhere, you (the player), and the JAIL.

The main character had stretchy arms (the long arm of the law [bionic commando]) - and he would grab the nme's and pull them back toward him, at which point the player can walk around (still holding the nme) and when they realised the 'grab' button the enemy would be thrown[tumblepop], and bounce around the corridors, knocking over the other enemies dazing them briefly... (and revealing bonuses such as fruit, records, ice pops etc [parasol stars])... the player can then 'arrest' the dazed nme's who form a Queue (a line) behind the main player and the player has to get the baddies to JAIL - mulitplier bonuses are given to multiple arrests that are sent to Jail [flicky], the Queue could be very long [snake] - anything 'cutting' the queue breaks it and frees the baddies on the side that isn't connected to the player... ... ... at least that's what it should have been, in reality it turned out a simplified version of that that I wasn't really happy with - I still think the premise is a sound idea though...

I really liked those single screen arcade games back in the day, Bombjack (which we cloned), Tumblepop, Snow Bros, Rainbow islands, Pang etc... Simplicity incarnate...