AuthorTopic: [WIP] Kawaii Mermaid - Platformer  (Read 9447 times)

Offline Ninja Crow

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Re: [WIP] Kawaii Mermaid - Platformer

Reply #10 on: June 09, 2010, 07:14:52 pm
> I got a LOT of motivation out of this post

Wow, thanks, I was hoping it was more encouragement than crticism!

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I've started quite a few games (even lenthier projects) and never got finished because I took too much care of details before I started adding actual content (in this case I wanted to do some playable and enjoyable maps ASAP).
Good for you! This is one of the most important things an indie developer can do to ensure their game is actually finished. And I love the idea of getting playable maps.

Here's a system that may be helpful: if you have a nice long "to do list", mark each entry as either red, yellow or green. Red entries are super critical 'can't proceed without them' things, like major bugs you've noticed, or very important features. Yellow entries are minor bugs (an object graphic blips when a level loads, or text that doesn't fit on a line prints out fully before being moved to the next line) that do not affect the ability of players or testers to play the game from start to finish. They include such ideas as 'more frames in walking animation' and 'level intro swishes'. Green entries are the types of things that even 'real' console type games get released with, that would be nice to fix in a perfect world, but which may only bother the creators of the game. I imagine these things are mostly aesthetic, and are very very minor. Once you have your list categorised and rearranged, be sure to finish red items before yellow, before green (unless you need a tiny thing to do - indies need motivation sometimes, since they don't get money!).

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...I'm just getting used to pixeling, so a portrait might be some work for me.
Ah, well, you coulda fooled me  ;). I guess since I was the one who brought it up, I should be willing to do the work of an edit to show what I meant - if that's okay with you and setz.

I like your new trident guy. Might I suggest "Ink Guard" as a possible name? (oh dear, I guess that means I'm really getting into the enjoyment of a project if I start thinking of names for enemies... :-[)

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What would be useful would be a tool in which I can modify the pallette of a picture easily and compare the same picture with different pallettes, recommendations anyone?
Personally, I use GIMP for all my needs, because its a tool I'm used to using. But it is a little tricky to optimise it for pixelling. How about a left field suggestion from the world of ROM hacking? I have experience with tile viewing programs that display binary art as graphics in different formats (SNES, GBA, Mega Drive, &c.) and can import custom palettes, which you switch between while the art is displayed. Palettes can be built manually, or easily put together with an 'eyedropper' tool I use that a friend of mine made. The sprite-editing abilities are somewhat minimal, but it's useful for trial and error, maybe. If this kind of thing appeals to you, I can provide more detailed information.

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I'm still thinking about adding colors to the pallette, namely some greens and some shades of the red and violet.
There are palette wizards here and on PJ who might be able to offer suggestions. There is also, I believe, some consensus on the practise of using pre-existing palettes for inspiration as long as credit is given. Searching for topics that mention palettes usually proves informative.

I've been trying to learn and adapt painters' palette techniques to pixelling, and here are some links that might be useful from the great art blog of Dinotopia creator James Gurney:
Post about the colour scheme designer website.
Post about an online gamut masking tool.
A seven-post mini series with easy introductions to colour theory and the colour wheel, with info on custom palettes.

It might also be useful to keep in mind that most games of, say, the NES or SNES era used a different palette for each world or level, so it may not be necessary to create a giant meta-palette, but rather a collection of smaller palettes that are complimentary to themselves.

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I'm thinking about some tiny and big (shadows of) fishes, coral rifs or sunken ships, maybe all just in one dark color that gets faded against the background, but I don't really know where to start...
Those are all great ideas, and the more you wildly free associate, the more chances you have of coming up with even more cool ideas. I love the look of multiple silhouette background layers (not just because silhouettes are easier to make...) so I heartily encourage you to try out all your ideas with different colours for different layers, and play with the player's expectations of mass (e.g. if the level seems to have a distant horizon, a sudden, nearby, hulking shipwreck can create a surprising dissonance that most people interpret as a pleasant thrill).

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Hmm to be honest I specifically designed the font for this game to give it a retro-ish look and I like it so far (a few letters and numbers aside).
The font is quite attractive, actually (though I think the "S" should have the smaller curve at the top rather than the bottom) so if you think it would look good at the resolution the game is homaging, then there's no problem, though my guess is the lines are a bit thin. I don't know the pixel dimensions of your font, but is it possible to bulk up the lines a bit, perhaps with a text effect like a drop shadow or coloured border?

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I'm thinking about changing the size of the text-box to contain only two lines but maybe that's not enough for the text to be fluently readable...
Two or three lines is pretty standard. For me, the smallest amount of text you can show on the screen at a time will increase the readability, as well as making the writing seem punchier. Here's an example textbox from one of my all-time favourites, Phantasy Star 4, and another textbox from Zelda, Link to the Past, and a third textbox from Zelda, Minish Cap, that show some really good proportions (though, of course, the GBA one has to squeeze a lot into a small package!). Playing games like this helped to convince me that menus (which text boxes are a subset of, I'd argue) should always float like a popup, so that the illusion is maintained that the player still knows what is "under" them (they become less "intrusive" that way).

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But that's one of the things I want to test on a map that is fun to play for me and some testers...
Great idea! I volunteer, selfishly, to be one of those testers!

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The pearls (I'm now gonna call them like that  :hehe:) are a motivational thing.
Heh, I wasn't trying to be persuasive with subtle hint words like "marine"...honest!  :P

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(which will be changed to +X when you collect more pearls in a row btw.)
Ah, well, that's a...whole new kettle of fish! That sounds like an excellent idea, and watching the numbers build up in chains sounds like great fun. Please make the lag time before the chain is broken be somewhat forgiving so that this enjoyment can be experienced to the full, since it sounds like it could be a major source of fun in your game design!

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I'm going to do this, plus I wanted to add a little screen shaking when they stomp near you.
Cool, though I would think to use shaking sparingly, as the type of thing saved for boss battles, etc.

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I'm thinking about a rotating star fish.
Might I also suggest a subtype of your spike ball that is on a chain, such as this one in Sonic & Knuckles?


Well, I've gone on a mile again - hope it helps!

Offline skamocore

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Re: [WIP] Kawaii Mermaid - Platformer

Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 09:23:08 pm
I'm thinking about adding some more colors to the pallette but given how carefully chosen the colors in this wonderful pallette are its too much for me to handle :blind:

I'm not sure how carefully chosen the colors actually were- I didn't choose them. The mockup was done for a challenge where I had to make an underwater mockup with thsoe specific colors.

Thanks. I can definitely say they were carefully chosen :P they went through a number of iterations and I did do some testing on a couple of existing 10 colour images. Huge apologies to iLKke and Ptoing :-[ But having said that, it was definitely meant as more of a challenge and not really as a practical and flexible palette for a whole game to use. And bare in mind that one of the main goals of the palette was to encourage people to look beyond just using blues, so there are a few curve balls there (mainly the red). So, feel free to play around with it and remove/add colours if you like. Don't forget to check out other games that have underwater levels and also look at some reference images of water. You'll discover that all kinds of interesting colours can exist underwater.

Anyway, good luck with the game, it's really cool to see this in action.

Offline RotateMe

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Re: [WIP] Kawaii Mermaid - Platformer

Reply #12 on: June 11, 2010, 12:59:33 pm
Thanks. I can definitely say they were carefully chosen :P they went through a number of iterations and I did do some testing on a couple of existing 10 colour images.

Hey, since the whole game probably won't be underwater I'm going to need some other colours anyway. What did you do the testing with? I stated that question earlier, but got no answer so far (aside from Ninja Crow but that sounds very complicated).

@Ninja Crow: I'm in a bit of a hurry now but I'm gonna answer your question / suggestions asap

Offline EvilEye

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Re: [WIP] Kawaii Mermaid - Platformer

Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 04:17:41 am
You guys are still living in the 90's with your 16 color palettes :blind:

Why don't you join the 21st century already? 32 bit color is the way of the future.

I agree with helm on the face, it's pretty 1 dimensional.

Here's my edit:



I don't know if it's the weird colors or my art but the detail looks a bit vague. I think it's just the colors not me :) I tried my hardest.

By the way, nice work on the dithering ( setz and you I guess ). It's not often that I see a good blend of colors via dithering :y:

Offline setz

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Re: [WIP] Kawaii Mermaid - Platformer

Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 07:08:26 am
skamocore: I'm not saying they werent, just that I wouldnt know since I didnt pick the colors. They were a lot of fun to work with actually.

So much fun I decided to chime in on the portrait edits, That was the last thing done and I suppose it shows.



an edit of my own, I got a bit carried away, and the top left, or top middle is probably the best I can do while keeping the same idea as the original, with some goofy ones thrown in. Hopefully this makes it a little less bland, crooked and a little more entertaining to look at. I haven't read over every wall of text in this thread, but I'd defenitely call it an improvement over the original.

(bottom left is the untouched original)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 07:15:58 am by setz »

Offline RotateMe

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Re: [WIP] Kawaii Mermaid - Platformer

Reply #15 on: June 13, 2010, 03:21:22 pm
Soooo this one's gonna be a long one, first of all I'm going to respond to Ninja Crows text block ;)

Here's a system that may be helpful: if you have a nice long "to do list", mark each entry as either red, yellow or green. [...]

Good idea, did it in a similar way now:

Code: [Select]
CURRENT:
- canons that shoot you around

IMPORTANT(!!!):
- maps
- enemies:
- crabs
- octopus
- starfish
- savepoints
- pause-menu showing items

LATER(!):
- ducking animation
- some explosion and dust animations to round things up
-when touching ground after jumping
-when unsolid blocks reappear
-when shooting shootable blocks or some enemies
- add at least two background layers showing stuff
- switches
- tiles that only appear/disappear once a variable is set
- game variables for events
- show numbers when collecting enemy money, accumulate numbers always
- damage on enemies shown in numbers
- half/quarter hearts
- opening screen / menu

FUTURE:
- lorry drive

BUGS:
- selection choices may get too big for the screen (problem)
- looking up / down doesn't work when screen is actually lower / higher than allowed

------------------------------------------------------------

DONE:
- done up to 26.05.2010:
- editor with basic functionality
- basic playability
- collision detection
- jumping, shooting, climbing
- two enemies
- sounds
- animations
- menues, dialogues, events
- music (27.05.2010)
- map properties (27.05.2010)
- dark maps (27.05.2010)
- some new event commands (27.05.2010)
- BUG: song playback bugs (28.05.2010)
- BUG: reset map properties when starting a new map in the editor (28.05.2010)
- BUG: camera scrolling errors (28.05.2010)
- integrate events into the editor (28.05.2010)
- treasure chests and three items(30.05.2010)
- money (30.05.2010)
- prison cell (30.05.2010)
- started with map outskirts (30.05.2010)
- spikes (02.06.2010)
- guards (02.06.2010)
- coins (02.06.2010)
- started with platforms (02.06.2010)
- BUG: overObject recognition works bad (07.06.2010)
- BUG: platform collision detection works bad
- BUG: moving platforms don't move the player with them
- ducking and looking up (08.06.2010)
- camera moves in direction the player looks
- tweaked the guard animation
- added screenshaking (specifically for the spikeball) (09.06.2010)
- changed the spikeballs movement
- BUG: looking up while walking looks strange (10.06.2010)
- blocks that disappear when you stand on them
- shootable blocks (11.06.2010)
- sound when shooting blocks

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I should be willing to do the work of an edit to show what I meant - if that's okay with you and setz.

Of course, Setz and EvilEye just posted some edits I quite like, but why not give it a shot too!

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I like your new trident guy. Might I suggest "Ink Guard" as a possible name?

Nice one, taken! Also gives me an idea for the first boss,  ;)

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How about a left field suggestion from the world of ROM hacking? [...]

Ugh that sounds complicated... isn't there a simple tool for this kind of stuff?

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It might also be useful to keep in mind that most games of, say, the NES or SNES era used a different palette for each world or level, so it may not be necessary to create a giant meta-palette, but rather a collection of smaller palettes that are complimentary to themselves.

I found some pallettes I will add to mine, but I will start using them very slightly and maybe use a completely different one for the overworld (yes, I planned an overworld  :o)

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[...]
So I heartily encourage you to try out all your ideas with different colours for different layers, and play with the player's expectations of mass (e.g. if the level seems to have a distant horizon, a sudden, nearby, hulking shipwreck can create a surprising dissonance that most people interpret as a pleasant thrill).

Started on a two color background, will post results as soon as it doesn't suck anymore. Good idea with the shipwreck!

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I don't know the pixel dimensions of your font, but is it possible to bulk up the lines a bit, perhaps with a text effect like a drop shadow or coloured border?

The game can be run in 320x240 * n where n = 1,2,3,... as long as your desktop resolution is capable of it. I might add a slight shadow below the text as an option but I don't know if this will make it more readable. I think the stark black-white contrast and the outlines of the fonts make it pretty readable in 1x already.

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[...] Playing games like this helped to convince me that menus (which text boxes are a subset of, I'd argue) should always float like a popup, so that the illusion is maintained that the player still knows what is "under" them (they become less "intrusive" that way).

I might reduce the width of the box and move it up a little, but I will keep the three lines for now. A pop-up effect might be nice too.

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But that's one of the things I want to test on a map that is fun to play for me and some testers...
Great idea! I volunteer, selfishly, to be one of those testers!

Great, I hope you can expect something soon. If you're interested you could also participate in designing some areas, the editor is documented and pretty usable (aside from defining properties of objects, which I did in a generalized way of passing 3 float parameters and 2 string parameters where you have to read in a text file what effects what for which object, but that might change as soon as I've finished the full range of objects.


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That sounds like an excellent idea, and watching the numbers build up in chains sounds like great fun. Please make the lag time before the chain is broken be somewhat forgiving so that this enjoyment can be experienced to the full, since it sounds like it could be a major source of fun in your game design!

That's about what I had in mind. Building up a chain won't affect the amount of pearls you get though ... or? maybe it does... don't know ;)

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I'm going to do this, plus I wanted to add a little screen shaking when they stomp near you.
Cool, though I would think to use shaking sparingly, as the type of thing saved for boss battles, etc.

Well it's not much for the spikeball but it adds to their feel of heaviness. Super Mario World did this too for the stomping things I think. Bosses will make the screen shake so much your monitor will break!

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Might I also suggest a subtype of your spike ball that is on a chain, such as this one in Sonic & Knuckles?

This was my initial plan for those (setz's screenshot suggested that too). I had some problems implementing it in the editor so that you can really see where it will go and it required a lot of trial and error, but I will change that so I can add some nice chain-balls!

Thanks for the suggestions and keep them coming! As you can see on the Todo-list there's a lot happening right now, but university exams as well as some seminars start soon so expect a slowdown in development  :(

I agree with helm on the face, it's pretty 1 dimensional.
Here's my edit:



Awesome... it always baffles me how much you guys can get out of so few space and colors!

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By the way, nice work on the dithering ( setz and you I guess ). It's not often that I see a good blend of colors via dithering :y:

Credit goes to Setz only for this ;)

So much fun I decided to chime in on the portrait edits, That was the last thing done and I suppose it shows.

An edit of my own

I like the first and second in the first row the most. She's not exactly beautiful but still cute and fits what I understand "kawaii" means somehow perfectly ;) I think I'm going to use these portraits in the game if that's okay. And the top rightmost one of course after you defeat the final boss. ;)

Since I have not much pixelation wise to post at least I wanted to show the new shootable and unstable blocks (the latter ones disappear while you stand on them). The other things are cannon-like things that shoot you around after you jump inside. The last one is a first version of the aforementioned starfish:

Offline Ninja Crow

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Re: [WIP] Kawaii Mermaid - Platformer

Reply #16 on: June 13, 2010, 08:52:08 pm
Hey, cool post - lots of great info! I love the idea of driving a lorry (a sort of underwater submarine kind of vehicle, but kind of beat up, like an old delivery truck - or maybe a shiny sports model...).

So as for the portrait, here it be:
     

When I grabbed the original image from PJ to edit, I was surprised that it was actually different from yours - I thought setz was joking about the original in the corner (with the lower eyeball it looks rather comical - no offense at all, setz, I even voted for yours in the contest!) but it looks great in context, and a lot like a hip fish girl. Yours is really nice, though, and was actually my favourite of all the versions so far, with a great look from the tall shape of the eyes that really helps it look like an adventure princess character. And as I was looking at it, I liked it more and more. But I did promise an edit, so here it is, and I hope you don't mind that it has a sort of manga feel to it. (you'll probably also notice that I played with the lighting, and some AA and very (very) tiny banding issues - couldn't help myself...)

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Nice one, taken! Also gives me an idea for the first boss,  ;)
I hope there will be some kind of evil squid warlord that can make enemies to take over your world with his magic ink. (fear the amazing squid dookie!)

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Ugh that sounds complicated... isn't there a simple tool for this kind of stuff?
I wish! What exactly do you hope to be able to do with the palettes - change one colour at a time, or trade the entire palette at once, etc.?

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I found some pallettes I will add to mine...
Cool, can't wait to see them!

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(yes, I planned an overworld  :o)
<faints>(:y:)

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Good idea with the shipwreck!
YW!

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I think the stark black-white contrast and the outlines of the fonts make it pretty readable in 1x already.
Okie dokie. I don't suppose you'd mind posting your font, though, so that if I ever have any thoughts on it, I can actually put my money where my mouth is and post an edit instead of vague suggestions?

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A pop-up effect might be nice too.
That does sound nice. I'm hoping they'll look like objects (the whole technique of a floating box that could be an independent item - such as in this image of PS G2 - is something I just happen to be far too 'into' for my own good) and not be 'black holes punched into the screen' (oh yeah, not letting my bias show there at all :P) like in old NES games where they didn't have a choice. Please disregard this if you have no such issues!

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If you're interested you could also participate in designing some areas...
That does sound interesting. I definitely want to practise such things and try out ideas I have for platforming in general, since I'll need the skills for this little project.

So what does one have to do to pursue said participation?

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Building up a chain won't affect the amount of pearls you get though ... or? maybe it does...
I guess it depends on whether you like the sublimely glorious and thrillingly compelling type of gameplay (hint: I do :P) in which you have a set number of collectibles to gather in a level for 100% (e.g. Yoshi's Island, Klonoa, early Spyro).

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Bosses will make the screen shake so much your monitor will break!
Oh good, I could use a new monitor.

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but university exams as well as some seminars start soon so expect a slowdown in development  :(
Good luck with your university stuff! Do pop in as often as you can to keep us posted, even if it's just to say hulloo.

I like your new blocks, though I notice that setz's originals are mostly lit on the outer, upper three edges. This is a cool look, though it may be a little confining for future variations - what do you think?

thanks for reading!

[/text block]

Offline big brother

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Re: [WIP] Kawaii Mermaid - Platformer

Reply #17 on: June 14, 2010, 06:48:46 am
Of those portraits, I kinda like the "untouched original" (bottom left), because of the overbite. It makes the character seem less human, more aquatic somehow. Could do without the goofy smile though.