AuthorTopic: Robo Iso - inspired after seeing neverests  (Read 6185 times)

Offline Sohashu

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Re: Robo Iso - inspired after seeing neverests

Reply #10 on: March 28, 2006, 06:28:42 am

there is the work i did at school.  I made a base for the legs to hook on to.  I think that is what constructed is supposed to mean. 
Back from hiatus, just remembered how excellent this community is at forming technique in a fledgeling artist of any kind.

Offline Aleiav

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Re: Robo Iso - inspired after seeing neverests

Reply #11 on: March 29, 2006, 12:34:56 am
I think you've got a lot of colors for just this peice. Not that that's a huge problem, but dithering might decrease the colors slightly. However, if it does look choppy once you try it, I don't see anything wrong with the colors as is now.

Offline Sohashu

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Re: Robo Iso - inspired after seeing neverests

Reply #12 on: March 29, 2006, 05:50:41 am
I know that dithering would decrease the colour count.  But i feel i will probably have to try with out dithering sometime for metal.  So i am practicing. 
Back from hiatus, just remembered how excellent this community is at forming technique in a fledgeling artist of any kind.

Offline baccaman21

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Re: Robo Iso - inspired after seeing neverests

Reply #13 on: March 29, 2006, 09:35:38 am

there is the work i did at school.  I made a base for the legs to hook on to.  I think that is what constructed is supposed to mean. 
Kind of Sohashu... but you're not taking it far enough my friend. Constructed means constructed... and that's means everything... once you grasp this notion you'll be flying...

You need to understand that all artists use construction and form to create their work - perception of underlying structure (even if ultimately you can't SEE it) is so important to making the final result believable.

Look at it from this perspective... There's three types of artists I'm going to draw you're attention to;
> The fine artist
> The draughtsmen
> The pixel Artist

A fine artist would sketch, paint, sculpt etc they'd be messy, wild and have a loose flowing style they'd use pencil's, charcoals, putty rubbers, conte crayons, paint, ink, and so on... they'd be creative and free in other words.

Then there's the draughtsman at the other end of the scale... They're more meticulous, measured, neat and clean. Quite anal in fact. They'd use a clutch pencil perhaps with a very hard lead in it... and a Rotring graphic pen with a very fine nib; rulers, measuring devices, compasses, petractor, set squares. Technical Precision and accuracy is everything for the draughtsman.

Finally, the Pixel artist, is a combination of the two... they should be creative but they also should be technicle. Free and loose, but also tight and anal.

So Let's draw some pictures... with pencil and paper - first as a fine artist.

Let's draw a bowl of fruit...  a still life - First things first... you'd LOOK at the bowl of fruit, weigh it up in your mind, see the shapes it makes, percieve what is happening with the objects you cannot see, the fruit that are obscured, the way the bowl curves away from you, the shadows that are cast, the way the table intersects with the bowl, the way the window on the far wall interacts with the fruit... the still life artist looks, percieves, makes initial decisions, and then begins to draw... So let's draw! - Lay down some lines on paper very roughly at first just to get a FLOW and break that paper in! Then step back and review it... are you happy...? good... now let's do some measuring! Measure the width of the bowl, Measure the height of the bowl....  edit those initial lines, rub them out if you need too... measure the width of the apples, the height of the apples, see how those measurements relate to the oranges, banana's - measure those, take some angles... sketch all these measurements onto you're page as you're taking them, double check your lines, keep reviewing them - By now you should have a sheet of paper with a lot of scribbly lines on it... roughly placed... no details... now, that's what's called construction AND you're working the ENTIRE image... you field of view in the paper plane as you SEE it - using measuring and perception.

What you're NOT doing is drawing an apple to completion, in isolation from everthing else... then moving on to the orange - finish that. Then the banana's... finish that, then draw the bowl in... and finally the table and far wall... you could do it that way, but you'll end up with is an apple that's too big, an orange that's too small, and a few banana's that are not quite curvy enough and a bowl that's just plain wrong...

OK, let's forget arty farty drawing and move into the realm of draughting... and what I mean by this is technicle drawing - the other end of the scale.

First things first, wash you're hands... all that lead from the last sketch is all over your hands... and you don't want to mess up you're beautiful tech drawing...

Ok, so now let's construct a cube in isometric. Sit at your nice and clean drawing board with all your tools; Out come's the 30 set square, mark the middle of your page and draw a verticle line in lightly... Place a point at the bottom of that line to use as your base marker and measure from there using your 30 set square the length you need and lightly draw the line in.  Measure that line, place a point at the where you need the intersecting verticle line to go. Flip your set square to 90 and draw your line in lightly up the page. Now, repeat these lines on the opposite side of the page. Now all you need is the top of the cube... measure up the verticle lines, place your intersecting points, raise you set square, draw your lines in lightly, flip the square over and then finish off the upper two lines, and voila you have the CONSTRUCTION done for your cube. This is the point you'd go in a re-draw the main lines that represent the cube with more pressure, bringing the drawing out of the page, the construction lines remain lightly in place in case you need to evaluate your work.

Ok so that's CONSTRUCTION from two perspectives. You need to apply both these to your work.


Your robot doesn't have any construction that I can see. The mistake you are making is getting to 'into' doing it without setting down a solid frame work... drawing is like building a house, you need the idea to begin with, the layout of the house, the floorplan, before you EVEN begin to BUILD IT physically you need to design it...  - then you need foundations, all the pipe work going in for water, drainage, electrics, some walls, a roof, chimney... then the interior needs doing, the wiring, the plumbing, the plastering, the decorating, the lighting, the furniture, and finally the occupants...

What you're doing here is jumping too far ahead to soon. You're building the roof before the walls have gone in. Your're painting the walls before you've plastered the ceiling...You need to take some steps backwards in order to move forwards.

13 shades of blue is too much... start with less, and introduce more as you go on. You really don't need that much. Dither or no dither you can achieve a similar result with less.

Look at Neverest's post again... this is a perfect example of construction - in ISO too... he's drawing THROUGH the image, to see the form of the arms, where the shoulder rotation points are (in green) where the the pelvis/hip rotation points are (In red) - this is crucial if you want to progress as any artist. The understanding of form and construction is paramount.

As I said before, you have a design for a head... which isn't too shabby. So take that as a basis, and using everything we've been talking about to attempt something fresh.

I'd like to see you try this again from a true ISO perspective. (currently I feel I'm look UP at this robot) - and don't be dismayed by making a fresh start - a good artist will move on and learn more by attempting different poses, postures, introduce new elements, remove elements you're not happy with... and so on... that's the fun of it.

Good luck.

Pete
:)




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Offline Sohashu

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Re: Robo Iso - inspired after seeing neverests

Reply #14 on: March 29, 2006, 09:47:26 am
ok.  I find it difficult to do this as it is a first for me.  I have started sketching it in my free time.  If i had some tools i would sculpt it.  But i will start again.  This work has really ticked me off because i keep trying something new where i think it all went wrong, and that seems not to be getting me anywhere.   >:( Oh well.  Ill start at the head.  I am not  so good at anatomy and just generally getting a pose.  That is what , in my opinion, has been getting me down.  I am trying too hard there and not focusing on the basics.  And i am going about it wrong.  I just do it because i dont like seeing a featureless area. it is an impulse. 
Thanks for the advice. 
Back from hiatus, just remembered how excellent this community is at forming technique in a fledgeling artist of any kind.

Offline baccaman21

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Re: Robo Iso - inspired after seeing neverests

Reply #15 on: March 29, 2006, 10:13:24 am
ok.  I find it difficult to do this as it is a first for me.  I have started sketching it in my free time.  If i had some tools i would sculpt it.  But i will start again.  This work has really ticked me off because i keep trying something new where i think it all went wrong, and that seems not to be getting me anywhere.   >:( Oh well.  Ill start at the head.  I am not  so good at anatomy and just generally getting a pose.  That is what , in my opinion, has been getting me down.  I am trying too hard there and not focusing on the basics.  And i am going about it wrong.  I just do it because i dont like seeing a featureless area. it is an impulse. 
Thanks for the advice. 
Hey.. the frustration you're feeling is understandable... as artist we all suffer that at times. More so in the early days when we're learnign the craft. You're brave enough to show your work and you're recognizing that you need to move on - which are two important steps.... you can't work in isolation and you can see when it#'s not necessarily wokring for you... On the bright side though - you can always come back to your work later... don't forget that you can break away and come back afresh... once you have sorted you're ideas out that is! ;)

It's great that youre sketching - it's so important... so sketch away - you're still at school right? So you got a fair amount of time to hone you're skills so don't worry about it... if you know what you want to do then go ahead and do it. If it doesn't work out how you expected it then take it on... invariably work you start off with an idea in your head changes as you develop it anyway so it's not a problem.

Check out books, those 'how to draw comics' type books help with dynamic posing and construction, anatomy books help with understanding underlying form, look at the paintings of the old masters, but above all keep looking and SEEING things, perception of shape, form, materials, anything and everything and keep sketching and develop your own style. Sketching isn't drawing a picture... it's sketching... ideas, objects, STUFF! It's for your own benefit to help develop fluidity and confidence in your own ability. Carry a small A5 sketch book around with you... and scribble away... (don't forget the pencil) - use your imagination or actually do studies of real things... the pixel realm isn't isolated from 'Real Art' - it's an extension of it... so learning the core skills on paper is crucial to success (hence why I always push people to get back to the drawing board (literally))

But, don't get too disheartened... learn by your mistakes and move on. We're here to help and if you can take the cristicism well and learn from it then you're halfway there... took me years to understand that and I'm still learning new stuff...

Above all enjoy it!
Buy the book - The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams

www.burnzombieburn.com