AuthorTopic: Question(s) about dithering  (Read 13665 times)

Offline Gil

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Re: Question about dithering

Reply #20 on: March 24, 2010, 10:12:51 pm
I used to have my dithering period, but now it's almost the opposite. I'm still finding out about my own style and techniques.

I used to create stuff like this, with almost 100% dithering:

Offline Jad

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Re: Question about dithering

Reply #21 on: March 24, 2010, 11:15:44 pm
25% dither looks like complete ass in my opinion, my eye spots the square pattern immediately. If you manage to hide it well with low contrast/clever use of noise or busy areas of art, then congratulations! If it makes things smoother without being seen then it has actually served its purpose!

Also yeah, interlaced dithering for brushed metal/chainmail surfaces looks pretty cool I'd say! I like using it for metal!

Like I did on the hat of that one!

Ok, very little actual interlaced dithering but I think what's there does a lot to give that illusion of contrast between speculars on the uneven surfaces of brushed dark metal
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Offline Joe

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Re: Question(s) about dithering

Reply #22 on: March 25, 2010, 09:40:16 pm
There's some very useful information here, thanks guys.  But it's led me to have more questions, if you don't mind.



For A, or in thinner clusters, is it better to use AA or to dither?

And for B, Jad mentioned how 25% dither looks shitty unless it subtle.  I think that's a pretty universal feeling, although I hate 50% more if it's not subtle.  But my question is, if I only have those two colors, is it better to make a 50% dither cluster, and then dither between all 3 or to do a straight gradient?  A better question would be, what's the best way to create a subtle or unnoticeable dither with very few colors?

Offline ptoing

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Re: Question(s) about dithering

Reply #23 on: March 25, 2010, 09:58:53 pm
A) Depends how many colours you wanna use. If you do not have a lot of space for your detail, AA is probably better. A good practise also is to try and get even lines (as in regular stepping)
B) Again, depends on what you are going for. If you use more than 50% or better said other than straight mathematical dithers things will look more organic (look at Arachne's work for examples)

As for how to make unnoticeable/subtle dither with few colours = low contrast between the colours you are dithering with. This is the only thing that works universally across all monitors you might view it on. On old CRTs 50% dither usually generates something that looks like a perfectly new colour even if the ditherpair has quite high contrast. On LCD screens and newer CRTs not so much, dither will always be noticeable unless the colours are quite close in value.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Joe

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Re: Question(s) about dithering

Reply #24 on: March 25, 2010, 10:15:48 pm
Ah, okay.  I will take note of these things, and I will definitely check out his work.  Thanks

Offline ptoing

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Re: Question(s) about dithering

Reply #25 on: March 25, 2010, 10:50:17 pm
...and I will definitely check out his her work.

;)
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Joe

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Re: Question(s) about dithering

Reply #26 on: March 25, 2010, 10:58:22 pm

Offline crab2selout.png

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Re: Question about dithering

Reply #27 on: March 25, 2010, 10:58:47 pm
The eye is very good at spotting patterns in things, but is also prone to misinterpreting patterns and can often be swayed by optical illusions.

So nah, I don't think the eye is good enough to be able to imagine the whole dither spectrum across a piece.

When 50% dither patterns touch, though, it can be important to think in a system of 'dark color grid' and 'bright color grid'

if I remember it right, in the old 'LET'S COME UP WITH TECHNIQUES AND NAMES FOR THEM' days they called this "interlaced dithering" and Peppermint Pig was hot at it O:

Does anyone have any art from him saved anywhere? Can't find anything ):









Whatever happened to Pep? Did he tire of the pixels? Or did he just have enough of moderating?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 11:02:37 pm by crab2selout.png »

Offline Larwick

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Re: Question(s) about dithering

Reply #28 on: March 26, 2010, 03:16:59 am
And for B, Jad mentioned how 25% dither looks shitty unless it subtle.  I think that's a pretty universal feeling, although I hate 50% more if it's not subtle.  But my question is, if I only have those two colors, is it better to make a 50% dither cluster, and then dither between all 3 or to do a straight gradient?  A better question would be, what's the best way to create a subtle or unnoticeable dither with very few colors?

I'm unsure why the standard grid-style 25% dither is so popular (apart from the fact it's simple and seems the next logical step from the 50% dither). I can't remember who I learnt this from, but I'm pretty sure it was someone on Pixelation. Not sure what to call it or how to describe it, but I've always tried my best to go with option A rather than B wherever I can. It gives a much smoother gradient, even with very few colours.



Apologies for the exaggerated and bad fading-to-black part of option B, I just rushed that bit heh.

Offline Ai

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Re: Question(s) about dithering

Reply #29 on: March 26, 2010, 04:36:09 am
can't remember who I learnt this from, but I'm pretty sure it was someone on Pixelation. Not sure what to call it or how to describe it, but I've always tried my best to go with option A rather than B wherever I can. It gives a much smoother gradient, even with very few colours.


I want to point out that the 'square-ish' dither is more expandable, if you need
the extra dithering levels..
Here, I have smoothed the A and B transitions as much as I could see how:


Is there any way to further smooth A so that it provides as many levels as B??
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.