AuthorTopic: [WIP]Sprites for a game  (Read 20930 times)

Offline jbeave

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[WIP]Sprites for a game

on: March 12, 2010, 02:21:37 pm
Hey there, just wanted to get some C+C on this. I'm having trouble getting some REAL feedback on it. Everywhere else I've tried were just "that's cool, bro" and the like. I want some brutal honesty, since I plan to maybe sell this game when it's done.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8720/progresssheet3.png
Kinda big sheet, so I'll link it.


Animations of the few poses I've got right now.

I would appreciate any replies, but just wanted feedback from some experienced people more than anything. Thanks. =)

Update: 3/30/2010 -


Wanted some advice for this running animation. I can't get it to look right.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 02:48:58 am by jbeave »

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Offline Bkeegan

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 02:47:32 pm
Hey Jbeave! Welcome to the forums =)

First of all, good work on what you have done.
I'm a noobie pixe artist around here, but I'll try to provide some constructive feedback

-Your piece would really benefit from some anti-aliasing. The edges are really rough.

-The larger portrait in that sheet, you've got some color banding on the shoulder. If it were for me I'd try to smooth that out.

Cheers,

BK
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Offline turfsurfer

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 02:53:27 pm
Its looking good, definitely a good solid foundation to work from. For starters: The character's left arm seems to change thickness during the idle animation, it doesn't seem like he's extending his arm all the way during the punch (and you can exaggerate this a bit to make it look more powerful,) the big red sword in the progress sheet looks kind of nondescript and he's holding it near his crotch (which isn't necessarily wrong it just looks a bit strange,) and the larger versions of the face would probably benefit from some dithering to make the curves look more smooth. I'm sure others here will be able to give you much more advice, but this should give you something to start with.

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 03:18:11 pm
I like what’s there, but it uses a lot of useless shades of grey. In fact, some of them are useful, you just aren't using all of them. A good example is the hair. There are so many colors in there, and it doesn't really accomplish anything.

A pretty big problem I'm noticing is low contrast. Low contrast means that the image looks really flat. Contrast is important in all art, but especially so in pixel art.
A good solution is to make a 'ramp' of your colors. Make rows from the darkest to the brightest shades, sorting by color. Usually when you look at these ramps they should be gradients from a dark shade to a bright one, with about 9 shades max for every color.
When doing this you should count the pants and the shirt as separate, so you can see how your contrast is with each.

You really need to use some more AA, I bet you can find tutorials on here for it. Basically, you have a lot of jaggies.
Also, if you're going to use outlines, it looks really weird to randomly stop using them in certain areas. :/

I'll work on an edit to show what I'm talking about, because I know I just really ramble on about this stuff, and in the end it makes zero sense. X_X
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 03:21:09 pm by CrazyMLC »

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 03:24:20 pm
Bkeegan - I don't know how to add anti-aliasing, any advice? I'll work on that shading though. =)

turfsurfer - Yeah, the punch was bugging me too. Do you think if I made the fist bigger when it's extended it would look right? Sorta like how it's done in Super Smash Bros...but then again that's a 3D game..But thank you for the feedback! I'll try to work on what you mentioned.

CrazyMLC - hmm, that's a lot of food for thought. That's the kind of replies I want. =D I will take a look at everything you posted.

Hopefully I can post some updates later.

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Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 04:28:13 pm
Heres an example of what I was talking about for you.


Like I was saying, contrast, contrast, contrast!
And, like I forgot to say, trial and error, trial and error, trial and error!

Also, it might help to use the color picker tool so you can use the same colors consistently throught the picture.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 05:36:47 pm by CrazyMLC »

Offline blumunkee

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 05:49:37 pm
Hey there, just wanted to get some C+C on this. I'm having trouble getting some REAL feedback on it. Everywhere else I've tried were just "that's cool, bro" and the like. I want some brutal honesty, since I plan to maybe sell this game when it's done.

Yay! That's just the kind of attitude I like to hear. ;)

I like what I'm seeing so far. You have a good feel for human construction and you effectively utilize light and shadow to render form. I think the animation could use polishing but right now I want to address the anti-aliasing.

People are telling you to anti-alias, but you already are! Those dark pixels you've placed on the legs are a form of anti-aliasing. The problem is that the intensity of the effect is determined by the background. On white it's garish, but on a darker background it looks much better. Let's take a look at your guy at different extremes:



Take a look at the different visual effect the dark pixels on the legs give for light, medium, and dark backgrounds. When people are telling you to AA it's probably because the AA you do have doesn't work so well on pure white. Those dark pixels soften the form of the leg on dark, but they turn into jagged little eye-stabbing daggers on white. I've heard people refer to it as the cardboard cutout look.

But there's one very important thing to keep in mind. Since this is for a game, the character probably wont spend too much time on fullbright colors—there will be trees and buildings and trashcans and other things behind him—so the dark pixels will blend into the background better. There is a world of difference between posting a sprite on a white background on a message board and sticking that sprite into a videogame. One helpful tip, at least here at Pixelation, is to use a transparent background when posting your work. This theme happens to have a nice neutral background which works well when posting things like character sprites.

I'd say you can probably keep the AA as is and it will look fine ingame. But while we are on the subject, let me offer an alternative direction. I was writing this while Crazy posted his version, and I think it'll be useful to see a couple of possible directions to take.



I have for the most part dispensed with the AA and instead relied on colored outlining. One useful thing to keep in mind is that lines can be rendered with different weights using color and value, so lines around the bottom of a form can be darker (heavier) while lines towards the top can be lighter (thinner). The sprite still gets some anti-alias effects on the dark background for free, but it stands up better on the light background.

The messy palette seems to be from the processing of turning the sprite sheet into an animated GIF. Weird things happen in certain frames like shadows becoming lighter and darker. It looks like the sprite sheet is using a more consistant palette, but there are a few wonky areas like the hair seeming to have it's own palette and the outlines of a foot turing blue mid-kick. Watch out for stuff like that, too many odd colors can make your art look sloppy.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 06:51:05 pm by blumunkee »

Offline NaCl

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 11:15:28 pm
The kick lacks power and smoothness. One problem is that during the extension of his lower leg, his entire body moves a great deal. Aside from the lower leg of the kick leg, everything should move fairly smoothly. Then, during the arc of the upper leg, the lower leg should probably go from fully bent to fully extended in one frame. That will give it some good snap and power, as long as you have another frame or two showing the aftermath of the kick (the leg still moves a little from all the power, clothes move from the force, etc...).

Also, put in a frame or two to show his leg going back to a standing position right now. It's a little jarring seeing him instantaneously revert to standing.

Offline Jad

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 11:53:07 pm
HALLO

you are awesome, you are obviously good enough to enjoy the juicy meat of an EDIT

here you go, I created DYNAMICS!



http://www.fightersgeneration.com/

go there, go to games street fighter 3rd strike, and garou: mark of the wolves, download some of the sprites, marvel, learn.

Actually I haven't done that a lot * D * I did it like 'go to the site, marvel' and then later learning by wise pixelationers talking about stuff. And reading the animator's survival guide.

But nevermind! Have at you!
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Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #9 on: March 13, 2010, 12:26:10 am
CrazyMLC - wow, I like all the shading. I think it's a tad over my skill level to make asheet out of something like that though. =/

blumunkee - Thank you for the huge reply! You really gave me a lot of good advice, I appreciate it. Do you mind if I work up from that? I just made a new stance animation from it:



It probably needs a little work, what do you think?

NaCl - thanks for that feedback. =)

Jad - woah, that is gonna help a lot. Thank you for showing me that!

Sorry it took a while to respond back though, someone on another forum had the nerve to call this a recolor/edit (with no basis whatsoever) and I've been pissed ever since. I'm cooled down now but it was more or less a slap in the face. >_>
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 12:30:55 am by jbeave »

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Offline Trub

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 12:48:51 am
Wow nice, I am trying to make a similar class of sprite though yours is much better than mine (and bigger), but you arms don't seems right at all. One of them looks like a fist pointing at an awkward angle to us while the other arm is alright but looks a little odd. But thats just my perception

Offline Jad

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 01:07:12 am
You should definitely redraw and touch up the sprite yourself - don't work from blumunkee's edit, especially if you don't wanna pay him whenever you sell your game : D

But mostly because you should feel the pixel placements yourself and learn the hard way <3
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Offline blumunkee

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 07:24:54 am
Yeah, we're trying to teach you how to fish, not catch fish for you. Plus I think I butchered the hair slightly.

Jad's edit is solid gold and deserves some deconstruction. He has basically added two simple elements to the animation that are lacking in yours: anticipation and follow-through.



I have split the animation into its three parts. The first part is the anticipation or the windup. Anticipation is the visual clue that a counter-motion is about to begin. In this case it's the arm and fist moving behind the body, and the upper body shifting backwards to put more kinetic energy into the punch.

The second part is the delivery. This is short, only two frames, but it does its job of delivering the blow. Jad has used a nifty motion-blur effect to give it a greater sense of speed. You see this a lot in fighters.

The final part is the follow-through. The first frame of the follow-through is very similar to the last frame of the delivery. Our fighter guy had all this momentum pushing forward, so his fist can't instantly snap back. It needs to hang there for a second to transfer all its energy.



This is the same simple formula taken to greater extremes. Here the windup is bigger with more frames. He crouches down to build up more energy and keeps his kicking foot grounded all the way through the windup.

The delivery is again just two frames with a blur for effect. Here you can see one of Jad's tricks. He cut out the leg and shifted it forward a bit. This sets up the begining of the follow-through frames.

He leaves his leg out longer in the follow-through, again because a leg will generate much more momentum than a fist. Jad also adds a little hair moving effect to show that the character is returning to his neutral stance.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 11:14:27 am by Jad »

Offline Jad

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 11:17:03 am
He crouches down to build up more energy and keeps his kicking foot grounded all the way through the windup.
I'm not saying this is the 'correct' way to do it, though, I think it can look equally cool with him first lifting his leg into the air and then delivering the kick, but I thought of it as him basically kicking his own leg off the ground first and then .. kicking. Yep.
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Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 03:43:51 pm
Quote
Yeah, we're trying to teach you how to fish, not catch fish for you.

haha, I like that. You're right.

Ok. I've got a few questions before I start from here. Jad, that fightersgeneration website doesn't want to show up right, I'm not sure why. Would you happen to know what's up with that?

Thanks for making that sheet of Jad's animation, really helpful. I'm assuming on the parts where there is little detail were just rushed to get the point across, but I thought I'd ask anyway, is it necessary to do that or would I get the same effect if I did add detail?

And what did you use to get that effect, Jad? All I've been using up until now is MSPaint. Downloaded GraphicsGale last night and it's looking to be way complicated...Could I get that effect somehow in Gimp you think?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 03:47:54 pm by jbeave »

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Offline TheRobinHood

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #15 on: March 13, 2010, 11:52:39 pm
Quote
And what did you use to get that effect, Jad? All I've been using up until now is MSPaint. Downloaded GraphicsGale last night and it's looking to be way complicated...Could I get that effect somehow in Gimp you think?

I'm not sure what Jad uses, but you can just about get that effect in any program.  I use Paint too, but I would suggest GIMP, seeing as its free and still rivals Photoshop.
If you're going to make him crouch down before he kicks or wind up before he punches, keep in mind that a long delay between the time you hit the button and the time the punch is thrown or the kick is kicked shouldn't be too long ;)
Jad's motion streak should definitely be added to your animations, but for the the leg,  I would do two frames of motion streak, the second one having less of a streak so it doesn't disappear too quickly, like on the punch.  Try to experiment! 

Everyone else pretty uch summed up what I had in mind ;)

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 04:07:18 am
Well, can't say I've been slaving away working on sprites since I posted this but I'm back, wanting more C+C. =D



I tried to do the same jump kick as the bigger one, came out close enough, right? I still need to add in shading, details, etc but I CAN NOT get that blurred effect for the life of me. This lacks "power" just like my other ones did. PLEASE, I need advice on better ways to get that effect. Be specific, and I don't want anybody to just edit it in for me because I can't learn like that.

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Offline 1ucas

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 04:29:19 am
This lacks "power" just like my other ones did. PLEASE, I need advice on better ways to get that effect. Be specific, and I don't want anybody to just edit it in for me because I can't learn like that.

That "power" effect comes from the timing of the movment. Notice how your character moves forward in a constant speed? Your reference sprite's animation looks better because there's a very subtle "charging" of the movement at the top of the jump, before the kick, which gives the illusion of weight and force.

This is one of the 12 basic principles of animation (anticipation). It's key for dramatic actions.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 04:31:19 am by 1ucas »

Offline Jad

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #18 on: March 24, 2010, 11:37:17 am
The blur effect, aside from the drawing aspect, is made possible by tweaking frame speeds/delay, that is to say, the time any frame stays on-screen when played.

Graphics Gale is one of the least complicated programs in the world, seriously, just give it some time - you'll want to configure some custom keys for animation (especially for browsing through frames left and right quickly, and adding frames) but the rest is totally just super easy. Ok, so it's a bit complicated but it all makes sense if you just play around with it a bit. Also its 16 color mode should help you with color conservation! O:!

Also I don't think the terry bogard original has a lot of impact either so if you wanted to achieve that level of impact I'd say you succeeded!

For more impact OVERREACH is your friend - make a single frame where the contact happens where the leg is outstretched just a bit too much, and then let it snap back again, it tricks the brain into seeing 'impact' O: TRY IT, although I'm not sure whether this would actually work for an air-kick like this one. Try it still.

Also you could improve upon the terry movement by having his torso move before the legs, with this logic: he starts rotating his body when he lifts from the ground, then he offsets the balance by rotating his torso further, delaying his legs a bit, so he can later snap his legs back into rotation even quicker. Am I making sense?
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Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #19 on: March 24, 2010, 03:12:38 pm
Here's a v2


I extended the leg like 4-5 pixels the first kick frame, and I made it so he's not flying across the little white box. I think it helped some..

Here's a little combo I've been working on, now with the v2 jump kick


Someone mentioned he should come down faster, so here's a v3


I used the one pose with the blur you made me, I hope you don't mind. I really need to figure out how to do that myself..

Quote
is made possible by tweaking frame speeds/delay, that is to say, the time any frame stays on-screen when played.
So you're saying I can do this just with my animation program? Mine is a POS because I can't find any settings like timing, etc. What do you use?

I honestly haven't picked up Graphics Gale since I posted that I downloaded it, it's too far out of my MSPaint comfort zone. And I thought the animation parts to it were only in the paid version? I only have the free one.

Quote
Also you could improve upon the terry movement by having his torso move before the legs, with this logic: he starts rotating his body when he lifts from the ground, then he offsets the balance by rotating his torso further, delaying his legs a bit, so he can later snap his legs back into rotation even quicker. Am I making sense?

I sort see where you're going with that, I'll give it a try.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 03:50:42 pm by jbeave »

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Offline Jad

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #20 on: March 24, 2010, 03:54:49 pm
the way you're using my blur frame only makes it slower

also graphics gale is too close to paint to be outside of anyone's comfort zone! Like you know you choose colors and then you paint with them! But you color select with the right click. And you bring out the marquee/move tool by right-clicking! And that's all you need to actually pixel! ' 3 ';, I don't see what's uncomfortable about it except for .. how it might look or something

Also you can animate in free graphics gale, but you can't save as .gif O:
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Offline Photocopier

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #21 on: March 24, 2010, 03:58:35 pm
You can animate, then export the frames and put them back together with another program  ;D

Offline Lizzrd

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #22 on: March 24, 2010, 04:33:04 pm
You CAN ofcourse download the 30 day trial version and if you like it buy it.
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Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #23 on: March 24, 2010, 04:54:51 pm
the way you're using my blur frame only makes it slower

How about doing it this way?


I got rid of a frame before the blur, makes it a little faster but I can't help but feel like it's a little "off".

I might give Graphics Gale another try, but I'm not really into learning another program right now. I'd rather not buy it either for the same reason..

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Offline BwdYeti

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #24 on: March 24, 2010, 06:12:11 pm
also graphics gale is too close to paint to be outside of anyone's comfort zone! Like you know you choose colors and then you paint with them! But you color select with the right click. And you bring out the marquee/move tool by right-clicking! And that's all you need to actually pixel! ' 3 ';, I don't see what's uncomfortable about it except for .. how it might look or something
It's troublesome if you're used to right click being a second/background color ):


Is there a reason the timing on all the frames is 10cs? Can you not use different numbers?

A timing edit (no edits to the sprites or placement, just changed timings around):

I tried to make the motion have more snap to it, but that caused me to speed it up too, whoops. Anyway, attempted to build anticipation by having short pauses before movements, and then keeping the frames where he's moving between poses rapid (like when he's in the air, before quickly turning into the kick)
I would add a few frames to smooth the movement out, another after the first kick (frame 4) that he would pause one (so frame 4 could be sped up), and one when he's coming down (after 16) so the transition to landing is less abrupt. You should also either change his placement or add a frame before the jump, since he turns in place instantly and the feet swap positions O:

Offline Jad

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #25 on: March 24, 2010, 06:40:23 pm
Of course it's troublesome, it's annoying in photoshop too in that case. The brain has place for several workflows, believe me, I can use both graphicsgale and photoshop and the right button does different things in both programs ' 3 ' anyways I'll stop ranting about it.
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Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #26 on: March 24, 2010, 07:12:26 pm
also graphics gale is too close to paint to be outside of anyone's comfort zone! Like you know you choose colors and then you paint with them! But you color select with the right click. And you bring out the marquee/move tool by right-clicking! And that's all you need to actually pixel! ' 3 ';, I don't see what's uncomfortable about it except for .. how it might look or something
It's troublesome if you're used to right click being a second/background color ):


Is there a reason the timing on all the frames is 10cs? Can you not use different numbers?

A timing edit (no edits to the sprites or placement, just changed timings around):

I tried to make the motion have more snap to it, but that caused me to speed it up too, whoops. Anyway, attempted to build anticipation by having short pauses before movements, and then keeping the frames where he's moving between poses rapid (like when he's in the air, before quickly turning into the kick)
I would add a few frames to smooth the movement out, another after the first kick (frame 4) that he would pause one (so frame 4 could be sped up), and one when he's coming down (after 16) so the transition to landing is less abrupt. You should also either change his placement or add a frame before the jump, since he turns in place instantly and the feet swap positions O:

Yes, I don't know how to do speed up the timing like that with my animation program. I'm using an old program I found years ago when I first started out, it's called Movies 12. Every other animation program I've looked into has not been free, and I'm not going to buy anything for this when there are probably several free alternatives. Can you tell me what you're using to animate with? It would help me out a great deal.

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Offline Photocopier

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #27 on: March 24, 2010, 07:44:42 pm

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #28 on: March 24, 2010, 09:14:26 pm
I use: http://www.benetonsoftware.com/Beneton_Movie_GIF.php  :D

Thanks for that, but it made my anti-virus go nuts saying there's a adware/spyware in it. I ignored it and then it recognized a trojan so I'm not going to install that. =/

I'm using Avira, btw.

Here's something new, it's a generic enemy.



I tried a different design for the one holding a gun.

C+C?? Anybody?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 07:01:57 pm by jbeave »

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Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #29 on: March 25, 2010, 10:26:37 pm
I went ahead and installed that animation program, I guess it's OK. I have to disable my anti-virus every time I want to use it though. Made a few new animations with it.



The first one, I wanted it similar to a Megaman "buster" gun. I still need to work on the body movement but I wanted C+C on the gun. The other two, I need some advice. I made it's head go down a bit to make it "aim", but I don't exactly know how to implement a "kick-back"..if that makes sense.

Edit: I just noticed I forgot to shade the legs..>_<;
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 10:30:54 pm by jbeave »

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Offline Lizzrd

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #30 on: March 25, 2010, 11:43:20 pm
When animating, think of the sprite as a ragdoll instead of just individual parts like arms ,torso and legs.
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Offline G_Dragon

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #31 on: March 26, 2010, 12:59:37 am
The gun should actually push the guy back from recoil. If you want a good example of people firing guns, check out youtube or some place like that. Also, adding to the ragdoll comment, try to picture what forces are acting on the character and gun. For example, the rifle is pushing back as the bullet is going forward, which is pushing anything that it is in direct contact with the gun back (chest and hands), and any limbs that are connected to that is reacting and this chain reaction happens all the way to the ground. Also, remember that the force should dissipate through out the body as the joints dampen the gun's force.

In other words, study clips from youtube until you see what is happening there. Or, if you know anyone with access to a gun and a gun range, then see if you can go with them and learn how shooting looks.

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #32 on: March 26, 2010, 04:09:01 am
When I try the "ragdoll" thing, I don't know how to make it look realistic. But is this any better?



I made the top part move a little, but when I try to make anything else move it looks weird.

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Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #33 on: March 26, 2010, 06:52:35 am
If you want the gun to seem powerful you'll need more kick-back than that.

As for it looking odd when you try other forms of recoil, trial and error! Eventually you'll get it just right. ;)



Notice that I put in an emphasis on the shot, where the gun moves back really fast, and keeps moving back for a couple frames, I even made the world shake a bit to show the power of the gun.

The whole body should move back, not just the torso, guns have a lot of kick-back.

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #34 on: March 31, 2010, 02:57:34 am
I gave up on the gun for now and went back to the first character, a running animation:



I've remade this thing 3 times now. First time I made it too big (legs, everything), second time I made it too small, and I did something stupid the third time...I re-sized the small one in Paint...and then it wouldn't undo anything so this is what I'm stuck with. I can't keep it the same style as the standing pose no matter what I try.

Thiis looks wrong, and I know it's the 5th frame because that's the one I had the most trouble with. I just can't get it to look right. I wanted to get some C+C so I can hopefully fix it.

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Offline Mush

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #35 on: March 31, 2010, 04:45:44 am
Here's something I made that may be helpful:



Offline zez

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #36 on: March 31, 2010, 09:27:19 pm
So first off, runs are friggin hard, you can look at my ongoing thread if you get discouraged. Iv been on that same animation for like a week now. That being said, The biggest issues Im seeing are 1 inconsistent limb sizes, 2 the arm comes up to high in the forward motion, when it bends the elbow. 3. Timing, thats easy, just slow it down a little, annndd lastly, you dont have a solid frame for the legs crossing over, so it just looks like he's kicking forwards and backwards at the same time, over and over again, without switching legs. I get that he is, because the shading changes slightly and the crotch moves back and fourth, but I can only tell thats whats going on because I made almost the exact same mistake when I started on mine.
Oh, this is unrelated, but on the sprite of the enemy with the mega buster, it looks like he's punching himself in the face every time he shoots... It does look kinda like recoil, just like the recoil is forcing the gun to hit him in the head over and over again.

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #37 on: April 03, 2010, 04:17:22 am
@Mush: At first glance I thought that would solve all my running problems but that did not help me AT ALL. It's a nice example but I didn't learn anything from it, besides arm and leg movement. Plus it's like 10 frames long, and I'm trying to keep mine around 6.

@zez: OMG this animation has made me consider giving up several times already, but I'm still pushing forward..barely. I've tried to fix some of the points you brought up except for the legs looking like they're kicking, how should I approach that?

But here's an update, I think it's a little better than my first one. I think I've got my head positioning all wrong, I'd sort of like comments on that too.

Edit: Added a v2 animation, darkened the back leg so it stands out more, does it look better that way? I'll need to adjust the shading but just wanted to know before I go ahead with it.

v1:
v2:

And I just HAVE to say it. I'm amazed at how many views this topic has (over 2000) and with only about 30 posts. I wish more of those people would give C+C rather than just lurk. =/
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 04:55:02 am by jbeave »

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Offline Mathias

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #38 on: April 03, 2010, 04:49:48 am
Mush, you need torso rotation in that anim.

jbeave, your run anim looks crazed. I can't tell what he's doing. Going backward or forward? I just see a buncha flailing limbs.

Offline linx

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #39 on: April 03, 2010, 06:47:02 am


Suprised no one has posted this yet  :o It's a commonly used animation reference around pixelation  ;D

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #40 on: April 03, 2010, 03:29:27 pm
I've already seen that, it helped me get what little I do have. But I still want to keep my run around 6 frames, if GBA games can pull it off I'm sure I can eventually.

@Mathias: How would you fix it if it were your sprite?

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Offline ndchristie

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #41 on: April 03, 2010, 03:39:10 pm
Suprised no one has posted this yet  :o It's a commonly used animation reference around pixelation  ;D

I like to think it's because people have recognized that the top example is static, sloshy and weightless (with a few "catches" too, when the elbows go back mostly) and the bottom run is some jerky monty-python-meets-adam-sandler skit where the guy walks funny while punching himself in the face.  Not a total failure for an animation but absolutely not the sort of thing we should study as an exemple.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 03:40:54 pm by ndchristie »
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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #42 on: April 03, 2010, 04:07:38 pm
Perhaps you can post a better running anim example, nd. I for one would love to see what you come up with.

jbeave, I think it's your frame timing. Your char's movements are fluid enough, but the limbs all go the same distance in each frame - look at the 12 Frame Run Cycle posted above, look at the arm closest to us, the light blue one. It swings downward on frames 3, 4, 5 & 9, 10, 11. The rest of the time it's up - the arm doesn't cover the same amount of distance in each frame. There's "easing" occurring.


This ball bounce frame sheet is the same way:  (not mine)




Do you see?

Offline Mush

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #43 on: April 03, 2010, 08:06:56 pm
Quote
@Mush: At first glance I thought that would solve all my running problems but that did not help me AT ALL. It's a nice example but I didn't learn anything from it, besides arm and leg movement. Plus it's like 10 frames long, and I'm trying to keep mine around 6.

I'm glad I'm here to help. :y:

Mush, you need torso rotation in that anim.

There is torso rotation, if you look closely. I guess I need to make it more readable.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 08:12:08 pm by Mush »

Offline Lizzrd

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #44 on: April 03, 2010, 11:04:32 pm
On paper it is, but if you look colosely, you can see  that the arms are static at the shoulder.
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Offline Mike

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #45 on: April 03, 2010, 11:29:59 pm
Here is a little something I whipped up.

In retrospect I shouldn't have made the text change every frame  :-\ but hindsight is 20/20 and all that

I expect all of those who need this to save it and look at it frame by frame I guess  :lol:

Anyway here it is



1. I always start on the in air pose when I work on a run cycle because I feel it's a the best place to define the style and flair.

2. When you have a 6 cycle run you really only have 3 frames in order to get the run readable.  Because of that you need to combine frames.  For example normally after the in air pose the sprite hits the ground and that's the contact pose and then it goes into the taking the weight pose.  The contact poses grounded foot stays at an angle so you can feel the weight better when you get to the taking weight pose.  The taking weight poses downed foot is as flat as can be which shows the weight better.  Anyway frame 2 is the contact + taking the weight pose combined  Oh and this pose is really important because it's used to show the pendulum type movement of the arms.

3. And frame 3 acts as the High point and the passing.  This is where the arms pretty much stay the same even when on frame 4.

One last piece of advice it's probably not a good idea to move the head forward at all during the run cycle I accidentally did it here and was too lazy to fix it sorry  :(

I'll probably make something better than this later on.

One more very important thing

I think the lower amount of frames you have for a run the lower amount of space you can get away with between shapes.  (I did not follow this rule as you can see HAHA...oh dear)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 11:34:16 pm by Mike »

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #46 on: April 04, 2010, 02:58:12 am
@Mathias: I'm a little confused. Should I give it more "bounce" then? Or do I just need to slow a few frames down in the animation to give off a bounce effect?

@Mike: I honestly don't see a difference between mine and what you posted. But I appreciate that little bit of info you gave me, very helpful.

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Offline Mike

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #47 on: April 04, 2010, 05:34:05 am
I don't even know how to respond to that...if you can't see it then then...I don't know man.  I suppose I'll just point out the exact differences.

here goes!

1. And this is big!!  You say this is a run yeah?  Well normally in a run in order to differentiate from a walk both legs need to be off the ground for at least one frame.  In yours only one leg is off the ground so it's more like a fast jog.  Or actually it's more like unrefined http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racewalking

2. He never spends a frame with his foot planted firmly on the ground.  Without this it looks very uncomfortable and you never really get that feel that he planted his foot.    This will make it look bad when running across a moving background.

3. The feet don't really run in any sort of smooth arc.  It's very jump especially from frame 6 to 1 and frame 3 to 4.  The jump you make there is too great and it doesn't read well.

4. Frames 1,2 and 3 have different head heights from their counter parts 4,5 and 6.  Fixing that will be immensely noticeable.

5. The feet that slide on the ground should be evenly spaced each frame otherwise it's going to look off on a moving background.

6. The arms kinda move without real sense.  I don't understand why his arm goes straight in frames 1 and 3.  It looks very unnatural.

7. The timing of the arms is very very jerky and inconsistent between the front and the back.  The front one has some arc issues and forced movement.  It never really has time to be read.  You can achieve that by slowing out of the arm movement.  Living things rarely move lightning fast like that without some sort of build up.  This is most noticeable on frames 2 to 3 and frames  5 and 6.  Actually 5 to 6 to 7 makes no real sense with the front arm movement.

Here's a leg edit

  Hope that helps more than my previous attempt

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #48 on: April 05, 2010, 02:51:53 am
Mike, that's a lot more helpful. I can totally see what you meant now, I can't believe it was something so simple. :P I'll work on the arms now, instead of them being straight I should make them bend inward a little more, right?

I felt like adding more of a personality to his hair today, I think doing this will help me give off that "power" effect I was wanting in the attack animations.



C+C on the hair?

Edit: And what's the deal with Firefox making animations faster than normal? I can't tell if it's a mistake on my part or Firefox.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 02:53:37 am by jbeave »

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #49 on: April 05, 2010, 04:54:18 am
It's not a mistake, Firefox plays gifs closer to correct speed (frames faster than 2cs are slowed). IE and some other browsers won't play frames faster than 8 or 10 or so cs, and previews in animation programs are usually a little slow since they have to render the frames.
It seems you did notice the idle is currently a little fast; it's not a major problem but you could try slowing it down or adding another frame or two and seeing which you like best.

That idle animation is currently 41 colors, is this a problem with creating the animation or with the original sprites?

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #50 on: April 05, 2010, 05:05:58 am
Quote
That idle animation is currently 41 colors, is this a problem with creating the animation or with the original sprites?

I don't understand what you mean, can you elaborate a little?

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Offline 1up

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #51 on: April 05, 2010, 05:11:19 am
he means: did the clusterfuck of uneeded colors happen when you were making the original or did they shimmy their way into the sprite when the gif was created

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #52 on: April 05, 2010, 05:14:27 am
What uneeded colors?? Am I saving the animations wrong or something? In that animation there are four frames, each frame should only have about 11-12 colors each. I honestly don't see what you guys are talking about..

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Offline 1up

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #53 on: April 05, 2010, 05:15:59 am
each frame should only have about 11-12 colors each.
he said that there's 41 colors so i guess a bunch of similar and uneeded ones managed to work their way into the animation??


idk, i didnt bother checking for myself so i might have been defending someone full of /poop/ there for a second

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #54 on: April 05, 2010, 06:16:49 am
Each frame is 32 colors or more, and most of the extra colors are just a few pixels. Some others are used consistently in one location, but don't match the rest. For example, the brown outline on his right hand is different from his left hand and his face, and neither of those colors are used for the bottom of his shoes.

EDIT:

?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 06:43:22 am by BwdYeti »

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #55 on: April 05, 2010, 02:56:43 pm
You're right, how the hell did you catch that? I don't have a clue how it happened though, but I'm glad you caught it. I cleaned it up the best I could:



I hope the rest of my sprites didn't do this....But I do still want some C+C on the hair, do I have it's movement down good enough?

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #56 on: April 05, 2010, 03:10:05 pm
I use: http://www.benetonsoftware.com/Beneton_Movie_GIF.php  :D

Thanks for that, but it made my anti-virus go nuts saying there's a adware/spyware in it. I ignored it and then it recognized a trojan so I'm not going to install that. =/

I'm using Avira, btw.

Avira blocks EVERYTHING!!!!
Submit the file to http://analysis.avira.com/samples/index.php and select suspected false positive.

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #57 on: April 06, 2010, 05:33:37 am
The identification as a trojan may be a false positive, but there really is spyware/adware in the installer.  :n:

Offline zez

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #58 on: April 09, 2010, 08:32:40 am
His shoes are changing colors, also the shading on his chest kinda lags right after he reaches his highest point and looks a little wonky... Mostly the shoes though.

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #59 on: April 11, 2010, 07:26:53 pm
Ah, I must've missed the shoes. I'll fix it and the torso.

Here's something new, it's a boss concept.



My shading is a little off, but how's its general design? I'm gonna work on its idle animation later and have its arm levitate. Would it be better to have them go up and down or do a sort of circular motion?

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