AuthorTopic: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand  (Read 45154 times)

Offline Green_Hell

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #20 on: March 21, 2010, 10:46:20 pm
Feel free to add more screenshots to the discussion. I think I need to play a little more before I can get some of the later areas.

Let's get cracking! :yay:

This might be usefull:
http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/NES/index.htm#S
http://www.retrogamezone.co.uk/shatteredhand.html

Hope it did not ruin the fun of cracking. I cheated my emulator (mednafen) and then remembered about these sites with sprites and maps.

Offline Helm

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #21 on: March 22, 2010, 08:34:55 pm
Kasumi thank you very much for the informative technical post :)

Offline pmprog

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #22 on: March 26, 2010, 12:10:07 pm
Several C64 games supply parallax scrolling beyond scanlines (Creatures, Mayhem in Monsterland, Turrican).

Basically, as the background is made up from the character set, which have custom "font", this can be done by having several characters with "scrolled" versions of the same character (if there's enough free characters), or, the other option is to edit the character set data during the game.

A prime example of the latter is Barbarian, whilst not used for parallax scrolling, the characters are "drawn" into the background using this method. I'm not sure why they didn't use hardware sprites for Barbarian, but still plays well
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 12:11:57 pm by pmprog »

Offline Kasumi

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #23 on: March 26, 2010, 03:17:53 pm
Kasumi thank you very much for the informative technical post :)
You're welcome.

Since I finally got around to really playing this, I've got one more.

This game has a "parallax scrolling" thing too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN6r2MPdNmw

It's fine for a beat'em up like Battletoads because those games progress horizontally, without a lot of vertical scrolling.
I don't think it works on this style of game, though, because it prohibits the part of the level you can interact with from being any higher than the highest point of the level with a "normal" scroll. Vertical scrolling with it is also pretty out of the question without headaches, so they opted out.
Also interesting to me, is how this game really likes (liked?) to avoid scrolling horizontally and vertically at the same time. I almost get the feeling they didn't have a way to do it when they started the game, and only added areas like this when they updated the engine.

Play the first level again. It seems pretty carefully designed so that it's never possible to scroll in both directions. You go horizontally. You reach a vertical drop. You can't go back to the horizontal area once you drop down. When you get the end of the drop to scroll horizontally again, you can't scroll back up. Without being really techinical, scrolling in two directions at once is difficult on NES because it doesn't have an offscreen buffer to draw tiles to in each direction. On the chance if it has to scroll both in the same frame it becomes a real problem. Metroid switched the type of scrolling every time you went through a door. (That's why the map is horizontal rooms next to vertical hubs) Megaman switched it when needed. Kirby's Adventure tried scrolling both ways during the level select hubs, but never during an actual level (that I know of). But that's likely getting off topic. I think I'll try the challenge, since I need the practice for my own game. I talk a big talk, but I'm really not so great at (NES) tiling.  :crazy:

Several C64 games supply parallax scrolling beyond scanlines (Creatures, Mayhem in Monsterland, Turrican).

Basically, as the background is made up from the character set, which have custom "font", this can be done by having several characters with "scrolled" versions of the same character (if there's enough free characters), or, the other option is to edit the character set data during the game.

A prime example of the latter is Barbarian, whilst not used for parallax scrolling, the characters are "drawn" into the background using this method. I'm not sure why they didn't use hardware sprites for Barbarian, but still plays well

You can mess with the characterset on NES as well, if you use CHR RAM, instead of CHR ROM. (which Shatterhand uses). I'm always amazed by the tricks these games used to get what they could from bad specs.
I make actual NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES

Offline Helm

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #24 on: March 30, 2010, 03:58:57 pm
Again, really informative post!

I kinda like how Shatterhand doesn't allow you to scroll in both directions at once, somehow it makes the game feel more... tight. I don't know if anyone else feels likewise.

Offline robotwo

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #25 on: April 26, 2010, 05:11:31 pm
Still have my ex of "Shatterhand" complete in the box  :)
One of my all-time favourites next to "Journey to Silius" and "PowerBlade"  ;D

Offline RushJet1

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #26 on: August 03, 2010, 01:41:44 pm
The best "parallax scrolling" I've seen is in Battletoads. (Note: Battletoads is NOT MMC3 but...) One of the features MMC3 adds is a scanline counter. This allows different vertical portions of the screen to have different horizontal scroll values. (Split screen scrolling as described in Megaman 3 above) On the title screen of Shatterhand don't press start. Eventually you'll see an enemy shooting, and a guy will pan in from the right blocking the bullets with his arm. That's an example of this. It's not exactly as wonderful as parallax scrolling with different background layers though.

You might want to see Metal Storm then.  It has actual parallax, and sometimes even double parallax (level 3-2--go play the game if you want; it's a lot of fun).

Offline QuickSilva

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #27 on: August 06, 2010, 05:05:28 pm
Metal Storm is just mimicking the look of parallax scrolling by cleverly using animated tiles if I am not mistaken. Games designers used to use these sort of tricks in the good old days. When your character moves the tiles animate. Simple but effective.

Jason.  

Offline Kasumi

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #28 on: August 08, 2010, 01:29:57 am
You might want to see Metal Storm then.  It has actual parallax, and sometimes even double parallax (level 3-2--go play the game if you want; it's a lot of fun).

Thanks for sharing! This is now the best parallax scrolling I've seen on NES! And it uses the same mapper setup as Shatterhand! AND it'd work with vertical scrolling! (and does in Metal Storm) My previous post was incorrect! Sorry.  :-[

QuickSilva is right. It's swapping out banks of graphics data to do this as the player moves. Exactly the same thing Shatterhand does to animate its backgrounds, except Shatterhand does it at fixed intervals instead of when the player moves. Really clever, Metal Storm devs!  :) Sorry for misleading people.
I make actual NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES

Offline ptoing

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Re: Commercial Critique - Shatterhand

Reply #29 on: August 08, 2010, 02:56:10 am
It's not proper animation even, it is just shifting a part of the tileset and since it is a small part which tiles it wraps. This kinda stuff has been done in some games on the C64 as well, for example Mayhem in Monsterland.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.