AuthorTopic: GR#028 - Greenery - Sprite Process  (Read 13934 times)

Offline EyeCraft

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GR#028 - Greenery - Sprite Process

on: March 09, 2010, 04:51:48 am


Been feeling like I've need a new avatar for ages, but was very dry on ideas. All I knew was that I wanted a figure and it to be something reflective. Ended up sketching this, and I like it. Based off Arne's palette... because I just cant get away from it lately   :yell:

This have proven a bit of a challenge after spending a fair bit of time on tiny, tiny sprites. Trying to get the shading and anatomy sensible. C&C appreciated  :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 05:49:31 am by EyeCraft »

Offline Bkeegan

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Re: Greenery

Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 04:54:52 am
Fantastic mate! your stuff blows me away.
Images posted under this account are property of Frozen Orange, inc unless stated otherwise

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Greenery

Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 05:41:59 am
You might be fudging up some of the planes of the head, understandable since it's made of rock but really I just wanted to say that this is a solid, beautiful piece of pixel.

Offline Lizzrd

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Re: Greenery

Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 07:06:16 am
The "hillshoulder" looks a bit weird with the fact that it looks like you just threw it there.
The vegetation of the head doesn't fit with the vegetation on the shoulder.

Other than that, it's pretty to look at.
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Offline EyeCraft

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Re: Greenery

Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 08:54:33 am
Thanks guys!  :D

You might be fudging up some of the planes of the head, understandable since it's made of rock but really I just wanted to say that this is a solid, beautiful piece of pixel.
Yeah I was having trouble working out the planes somewhat, mainly because I haven't worked much from this angle of the head. Need to do more study, I guess. D:

The "hillshoulder" looks a bit weird with the fact that it looks like you just threw it there.
The vegetation of the head doesn't fit with the vegetation on the shoulder.

Other than that, it's pretty to look at.

Hmm, damn. It's true I didn't really do any construction on the piece, I was just sort of working from my own mental model of the form as I went. I guess I should try a construction over the top of it and see what "should" be happening there. I also exaggerated the line a little to emphasise the pose, so maybe that's pushed it a little out of what reads as sensible.

As for the vegetation; I was trying to get different kinds of things going on, mainly lush grass on the crown, and a kind of mossiness going on around the neck. I guess I kind of ended up in between the two with the shoulder, I'll play around there and see what I come up with.

Offline MadHatter

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Re: Greenery

Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 01:30:31 am
Wow, this is absolutely stunning.

one thing i would suggest is making the vegetation more realistic, which I'm sure you can do.

Offline NaCl

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Re: Greenery

Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 11:17:08 am
Firstly, I really like this. Very cool concept and execution.

The only thing I'll say is that I didn't see that the rock was humanoid at first. Once I zoomed in then it popped out. I think this was because of the texture of the rocks on the neck, they immediately drew my eyes, then they went to the little antelope. I think the problem is that dark area at the space between neck and head.

Offline Helm

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Re: Greenery

Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 02:44:03 pm


This is bad critique as I didn't look at any actual model references (will make a 3d model assume the position later perhaps) but the point is you've paid too much attention to head and not enough on how the shoulders should support it I think. Otherwise really beautiful.

Offline infinitegames

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Re: Greenery

Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 12:19:35 am


This is bad critique as I didn't look at any actual model references (will make a 3d model assume the position later perhaps) but the point is you've paid too much attention to head and not enough on how the shoulders should support it I think. Otherwise really beautiful.

I think that completely ruins the effect

Offline bengo

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Re: Greenery

Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 12:28:25 am
I think that completely ruins the effect
What do you mean man? It looks fine to me.

Offline Jorund

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Re: Greenery

Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 02:00:04 am
I think that completely ruins the effect

It's just an edit to show how the shoulder should be. Don't take into account the vegetation.

Offline HC_Bret_Measor

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Re: Greenery

Reply #11 on: March 12, 2010, 12:14:59 pm
When I saw this you motivated me to make a pixel avatar... I'm just not sure what I am going to do.

Btw love your avatar.

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: Greenery

Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 12:39:14 pm
Really like it, but in general the anatomy seems sort of odd. The neck feels very off, and the left shoulder is a little low. Helm's edit was a little extreme, because I felt that the posture had an effect on the picture. I think something between what you have and Helm's edit would be optimal.

Otherwise, the colors look really nice together, and I love the piece.

Offline zanaril

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Re: Greenery

Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 08:34:00 pm
I think the neck needs to curve more. Possibly with a row of rocks to show the vertibrae? It might help direct attention towards the face.

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: Greenery

Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 10:24:56 pm
Thank you for all of the love! But I think this piece still has further to go before I'll be satisfied with it  :)



This is bad critique as I didn't look at any actual model references (will make a 3d model assume the position later perhaps) but the point is you've paid too much attention to head and not enough on how the shoulders should support it I think. Otherwise really beautiful.

That definitely communicates more sense of structure. I was liberal with my anatomical distortions, being so caught up in the energy/movement of the pose. Thank you.

Really like it, but in general the anatomy seems sort of odd. The neck feels very off, and the left shoulder is a little low. Helm's edit was a little extreme, because I felt that the posture had an effect on the picture. I think something between what you have and Helm's edit would be optimal.

Otherwise, the colors look really nice together, and I love the piece.

Yes, this is my thinking, too. I'm going to do a set of more complete figure studies of the pose and get a real feel for both the anatomical structure and the gesture. I think only by doing that can I find the real 'sweet spot' for the piece.

I think the neck needs to curve more. Possibly with a row of rocks to show the vertibrae? It might help direct attention towards the face.

I sort of played with that idea, tracing the spine, I didn't like where I got with it since it seemed to exaggerate an idea of boniness, disparity, harsh cold misery. It's like she suddenly despised the antelope. This clashed too much with the feeling I had going, so I took it out and concentrated on rendering it just as a cliff to push her duality. But in a way I can see how that has introduced lines which fight the flow of the pose, so I might try reworking that a little.

I will return, post-figure-studies   ;D

Offline TheRobinHood

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Re: Greenery

Reply #15 on: March 13, 2010, 11:14:55 pm
nice!  Loving the concept.
I think his sideburns are too shaggy, and the shadow on the back of the head is over exaggerated.

Offline blumunkee

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Re: Greenery

Reply #16 on: March 14, 2010, 08:13:11 am
I see this as a rock formation made to look human, not a human made to look like a rock formation. Given that I think the loose anatomy works better here.

Offline Mathias

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Re: Greenery

Reply #17 on: March 15, 2010, 03:49:17 am
Loved this from the moment I saw it. Instant pixel appeal. Great use of the genre.

The head's "hair" flora bugs me a little - the way it cuts off like a medieval friar's, or Forrest Gump's, cut-too-short haircut. That may sound silly, though it still amounts to a distraction for me.

And why a goat? Just because it's a mountain goat, and on a mountain? Any further significance? (just wonderin'. I love to get inside the heads of artists whom I respect)

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: Greenery

Reply #18 on: July 07, 2010, 02:27:53 pm
Okay, wow. It takes me a long time to get around to things  :blind:

The mood struck me to return to this piece and undergo the figure studies I promised myself I would do.

It's a difficult pose for me, and each attempt I make to dissect it indicates it's time I returned to my anatomy studies and go over the whole torso. Here is my retake:



Original on the right for comparison.

I love, love this angle and the connection it establishes between the viewer and the woman. However, it changes the position of the shoulder in relation to the face, and makes adding the little antelope compositionally problematic.

Still tossing up whether to do a retake of the piece with this new angle, see where it takes me, or do another study with the "camera" more to the left, to get the shoulder further out from the face.

But most importantly: thoughts on anatomy?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 02:33:30 pm by EyeCraft »

Offline st0ven

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Re: Greenery

Reply #19 on: July 07, 2010, 10:15:23 pm
no no no. your original piece is much preferred to your latest sketch. the linework isnt at all bad, but the anatomy is all bunched up, it looks like the anatomy of a hobbit of sorts. its muscles are also very masculine making it hard to distinguish it as a female figure. Id say stick with your current piece as a good base and work in any updates on that imo.

Offline bengo

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Re: Greenery

Reply #20 on: July 07, 2010, 11:42:06 pm
Not sure if you're working from reference but I suggest you do, especially with the face, you probably struggle with female faces like myself so it might be best to find some reference.

Offline moket

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Re: Greenery

Reply #21 on: July 07, 2010, 11:58:33 pm
I'm with st0ven here. I really like the curve of the neck and the overall composition/stylisation. To me it's far more interesting than having a realistic anatomy. Lots of masters in painting are modifying the human proportions in order to achieve a better feel of the model personality or effective composition (Ingres come to my mind with this particular painting ).
I tried anyway to do a sketch, you will have to rotate the head a bit in perspective or hide the chin behind the shoulder, didn't realize it was a woman. I think there's some body parts which are hard to convey viewed from a particular angle and even aren't worth the challenge, like a side view of a hand for example.
Great avatar !

« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 01:19:23 am by moket »

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: Greenery

Reply #22 on: July 08, 2010, 01:44:28 am
no no no. your original piece is much preferred to your latest sketch. the linework isnt at all bad, but the anatomy is all bunched up, it looks like the anatomy of a hobbit of sorts. its muscles are also very masculine making it hard to distinguish it as a female figure. Id say stick with your current piece as a good base and work in any updates on that imo.

Yes, it is true the study lost the feeling of the original. I've had a bit of sleep between now and when I was caught up in it last night, and I can see now I was getting carried away with it  :lol: "Let's completely restart the piece from scratch!"

That was not the purpose of the study, though. The purpose was to bring more rigor to the work flow. Every time I look at the piece I say "yes, it captures the movement I want, but I fumbled my way to get there." This was not entirely a deliberate departure from realistic anatomy, I was not mindful of what I was discarding. So I want to do studies of various poses that are similar and find out exactly what should stay and what should go.

Only then can I rest easily.

As for the hobbit proportions, I fell victim to drawing to fit the canvas. I've expanded the canvas out to give much more room for the entire torso. The bunching up of the shoulder to the face I will reconsider.

As for the masculinity; a problem I continue the have. I construct from basic bones, and often greatly exaggerate the muscle bulk to help remind myself of the structures in play. Everyone ends up looking like body builders of some degree.

Not sure if you're working from reference but I suggest you do, especially with the face, you probably struggle with female faces like myself so it might be best to find some reference.

Yeah... I guess I wanted to give the pose a shot without reference first just to see how lacking my knowledge is. Find the limits. I actually really like her face, though. Got a bit of a Ripley mouth, I notice now, hahaha. I will attempt to hunt down reference, though I can find it tedious.

I'm with st0ven here. I really like the curve of the neck and the overall composition/stylisation. To me it's far more interesting than having a realistic anatomy. Lots of masters in painting are modifying the human proportions in order to achieve a better feel of the model personality or effective composition (Ingres come to my mind with this particular painting ).
I tried anyway to do a sketch, you will have to rotate the head a bit in perspective or hide the chin behind the shoulder, didn't realize it was a woman. I think there's some body parts which are hard to convey viewed from a particular angle and even aren't worth the challenge, like a side view of a hand for example.
Great avatar !

Haha funny you mention that. I had a piece with a bunch of hands a while ago and it had a side view hand that drove me crazy!! Thank you very much for the edits. You have sketched out two concepts I probably would have spent an eternity on.  :lol:

Yeah, like I said, masculinity abounds in all my figures, much against my will. In the original my entire treatment of the hairline and hair contributed largely to the ambiguous gender. But something about that appealed to me at the time. It's yet another aspect of my lack of rigor leaving me asking "what did I unconsciously discard?" So I intend to make the studies decidedly more feminine.

Thank you all for the perspective!

Further studies will come.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 01:47:34 am by EyeCraft »

Offline kamol

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Re: Greenery

Reply #23 on: July 08, 2010, 09:04:08 am
I actually think it is pretty perfect the way it is. Not that I have much experience on pixel art so far but I noticed your avatar right from the start as an example for a pixel art work that appeales to me because of three things in it:

- the colours, which are refreshing and nice
- the idea of a stony human like creature that looks down to its shoulder at another creature, a mountain goat as an animal that perfectly fits into the landscape shown and last but not least
- especially the androgynious stature of the stone creature that to me looks like a young woman, the way I expect maybe an elf might be looking.

I am actually not much into fantasy stuff because usually I find it a bit too candy coloured and cheezy. I guess the reason I like it is all about a somehow sterotyped fantasy subject that you managed not to look sappy or cheezy but intersting and mystical to me instead.   :y:
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 11:22:17 am by kamol »

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Greenery

Reply #24 on: July 08, 2010, 01:44:00 pm
Right now, you're going to be hard-pressed to improve the anatomy, while also serving the intent, design, and success of the piece. I made an edit that attempts to do so. Played with the shape of the head, and simplified the volume of the neck- as it was before you had 3 columns that locked into the form of the skull where there should only be two- and in the process of creating those 3 columns you had forgotten the ultimately cylindrical form of the neck. Did some other things too that were more based on what I found looked more " right" to me so take with it what you will:

Offline Helm

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Re: Greenery

Reply #25 on: July 08, 2010, 11:20:32 pm
all of the anatomical reworkings are from the vantage of a short person looking up to a tall lady. The actual avatar is from the vantage of a taller-than-the-lady fellow looking down.

Which creates the space between the curved shoulder and neck that gives the avatar grace.

You can improve the anatomy if you start doing your sketches from the proper height for the vantage point.