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Messages - JonasO
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21
Pixel Art / Re: [WIP?] RPGish stuff mockup
« on: June 16, 2012, 02:41:38 pm »
Ok i'm back!

First, @JonasO
I really appreciate the comments, but i'm not sure my brain could handle it all :lol: so i got some questions:
 - What did you mean about giving the walls and ground more structure? Detail it a bit more?
 - Having no eyes would make characters fit with the scenery i got now? Like in the first post i made?
 - Gotta be honest, i didn't understand a thing on the ceiling part. :yell:

English isn't my native language, so i have these issues :P



Ah I'm at fault also. I'm not a native speaker myself and I tend to speak in incomplete sentences. Be sure to ask if something is unclear and I'll try to explain what I meant. Your english is, in fact, quite good.

Here is some edit to illustrate my ideas:



The edit has some problems. Eg the stones which go from front to back don't have a tileable length (7 would be one such length), so I had to place them by hand.
Apart from that, it shows a lot of things, e.g. the ceiling (I see that you did something like that yourself, but keep in mind: if the ceiling is dark, there is a "roof", if it's bright, you're in the open) , making the doors walls and ground more "realistic" and less "plastic". (I tried to styles with the ground: one of them looks a little bit overdone to me).

You should definetly check out diablo I for some really awesome groundwork!


And this is a little update of what i got so far


I'm still unsure about the characters and perspective, some friends said to keep the old ones, some said i should try to fix, but i still couldn't make something nice that looks right. Maybe i shouldn't have started drawing characters in one file and scenery in another. Well, at least i learned something :ouch:

So i've worked on something else to relax, like the poorly drawn trees (they're fun!) and the pine one looks pretty horrible. Tried giving the trees another color and texture, but i guess these little dots didn't add much to it, and i'll probably keep working with the solid ones. Also, i should note that the game would be strictly tile based, and thats the reason the walls are huge!  My thoughts have been enlightened and i'm fixing this (hopefully)



The problem i had is that the way i had made it would leave alot of space between a walkable tile and the wall and the player would go like "hey theres alot of space here why can't i move?". The fix was fairly obvious, but i had to share my happiness. 
Now onto fixing that new brix :crazy:
 


The archer looks way off while he's aiming. Maybe he could change the angle in which he's standing (only while aiming), then you could get a better angle on the bow.

Your plants (which grow on the stones need a rework - I think the color is too bright, the way they grow is too regular (don't use the checkerboard style) and they partly seem to grow out of nowhere.

22
Pixel Art / Re: [WIP?] RPGish stuff mockup
« on: June 15, 2012, 04:44:41 pm »
Little update!



Had a try on fixing the characters perspective. Feels like made new dudes and still didn't get it right. :mean: Girl looks kinda weird too and both look like kids.  :lol:
Played some games like Zelda and Bombermans (SNES ones) to have some ideas. Surprisingly, they had the same kind of perspective issues on the characters and scenery, but i guess it feels like it doesn't clash due to the giant head the characters had(?).

Well, if all else fails, i'll keep it like in the first mockup. It can't be that bad! :P

I think the reason they look like kids is the size of the head. You could make their body slightly larger - I'm very bad with proportions so I can't tell you how large exactly - or their faces smaller, but that would cost you the eyes.

But given the plastic-ness of the other game elements (like the walls and the ground), is that really a bad thing? They fit well together.

You could however try and give your stones and ground more structure, and see if that changes things for you.

For the "ceiling", you could try and recapture the structure of the wall, i.e. the ceiling could be the stones from above. In this case I would chose the 4 row variant, show the outer stones from above (in a darker shade) and then have any remaining space black.

Also in your last edit, the stones have different borders depending on whether they are aligned with the tile or not. I recommend taking the small borders (1 px) for a more "mature" and "realistic" look and 2 px for a more "plastic" and "toy-ish" look, because it makes the stones look more chubby.

For the natural walls, I'm thinking about that myself a lot, and I think one important thing is to keep the base line uneven. This is what I did:



Look at the "cliffs", they are not one straight line, but they keep going in and out. The implementation might not be perfect, but I think the idea is good.
Also, natural walls tend to crumble etc, so you might want to have some rubble lying around near to the natural walls.

But it all depends on whether you want to go for the "toy-ish" look or for the "realistic" look. The important thing is that you keep it consistent, then you can make anything look good.

23
Pixel Art / Re: Help with a Tree
« on: June 10, 2012, 01:14:41 pm »
This looks a lot better! (great tutorial by the way, really great)
But still, it seems to me like you have only followed the first two arrows. The leaves are added in the last two steps, so you have another 2 arrows to follow.
Here are some more comments:
Where does the light come from?
Why black pixels in the art and why exactly there?
I think your highlights are too dark.
You use large areas without dithering. (This is no problem right now, follow the arrows and the dithering will come).
Why the random lines of pixels coming out of your tree? They look random and rushed, not natural and leave-y.

24
Pixel Art / Re: kitana & mileena
« on: June 10, 2012, 05:57:21 am »
There's something incredibly creepy about Mileenas head.
I'm trying to figure out what.. The shape feels really off and those eyes are incredibly uncanny.
EDIT: This critique might sound mean, but it's certainly not meant as an offence. Don't take it too bad.
EDIT: oops... I was talking about Kitana when I said:
The mouth. She looks like a blow up doll. And I certainly agree with Helm on the arm length.

Mileena seems to have no pupils. Her head is big and boney, it could well be the head of a guy. And I think that the lighting on her forehead gives her an unfortunate hump, like a cardassian or something. The fact that the hair line has an irregularity exactly at those points intensifies that look.
Also I feel the head tilts too much to the side, such that it looks slightly detached from the rest of the body. Maybe eve just shifting it a few pixel to the right (from her point of view) could do the trick.

25
General Discussion / Re: Artist(s) and game developer - Join forces?
« on: June 10, 2012, 05:32:46 am »
I know how you feel. I've been in a similar situation like you for years. I can only assume that it's the same for artists (I wake to find myself on the coding side quite often).

The problem is that people either want to do their own pet projects or work for money, but not be a partner in a project they don't deeply care about. The solution is of course to make people interested in your work and then give them the possibility to help you - but how to get someone interested in your work if you can't really start? You basically need to have some $$$ and pay someone for a couple of months, and no artist nor game designer nor programmer can really do that.

Of course you can always use some freely available material to create a demo. But without solid graphics, many people who could help you will not even try the demo. As an artist, you can do mockups, and I think those are great at attracting people. But at least we're no musicians. ("Look at this awesome piece of music I made, let's make it into a game" - ever heard that one? no? me neither. And that's although music pays for half the atmosphere...).

Maybe you need to have a peer group with artists and programmers, connected in real life, in order to start something. And then you can attract people.


Anyhow, back to topic. Did I understand you correctly: What you're asking for is not a full-time artist sitting by your side, rather than an extensive graphics library including free files from the artists at this site. Old stuff they drew and never used, things like that.
It would sure be great to have a "resources" forum, tagged by size, perspective, type (tileset, character, enemy, ...) and license. Something like what we had for warcraft 3: http://www.wc3c.net/resources.php .
I think that's a good idea. It's good for artists so they can look at stuff and learn, and it's good for programmers so they can build games with that stuff. It worked wonders for warcraft III (which also had a good amount of standard graphics, that was a huge bonus!)

26
Pixel Art / Re: Ancient God(ess?) sprite
« on: June 10, 2012, 04:26:20 am »
Okay this is my thought process:
More tits or less stilettos? :S
On a more serious note, it's interesting to see how the head and torso are masculine while the posture and gesture and lower body are cleary feminine.
In greek mythology, there is the hermaphroditus, which is both woman and man.
I'd also like to think of this in an "above sex", ancient, powerful sort of way. Although its fat hips make it look like a fat little manwoman, trading that power for hilarity. But I think there's really a lot in this piece. If you could somehow make the legs different... hm.
Now I have to think of mewtwo, the belly, the tail, the neck, the thing behind its neck - there's lots of things they have in common. Mewtwo looks powerful because of its pose and because its feet are larger, suggesting muscle weight.
Okay, back to the legs: Maybe more legs? two more which go behind it, facing backwards (like lionfeet at the legs of a throne)? A lower angle, giving her a sense of weight (you shouldn't think you could just blow her away by breathing out too hard)? A less saturated color, removing that pinkish I-have-fat-legs feeling? Thinner legs that match its arms?
Also godesses have minions, especially snakeish godesses! Give it some green snakes that slither up its legs? In a cyclone sort of way, if you know what I mean? One snake could crawl along the godesses' arm, in the way snake summoners have snakes crawl along theirs.

I really think this... thing has a lot to go for it and a great potential! The colors of the head, torso, staff and tail are great (!) and the shading for the finished parts looks really godess-appropriate. It has that distant hawk "don't move, food." sort of gaze. Give it some more weight and nobody can resist it!

27
Pixel Art / Re: Game Hero
« on: June 10, 2012, 03:55:01 am »
Okay brace yourself for some harsh critique. I'm not a master myself so some of this might be nonsense, but you should see for yourself.

I'd try this:
Add some shading... Make one arm darker and dither the torso.
His arms look great when he's walking down, but seem to hardly move in the other direction.
Due to the way his head tilts forward while moving up, it looks like he's moving backwards. The torso should be in front of the head, not the other way round.
Use colors (one pixel or something) to show which arm is behind, which one is in the front.

It's interesting to see a nose with this character size. It makes the hero look young and droll I think, but that's just my feel.
I agree on the hair being a problem, especially when facing up: The shading makes it look kinda wormlike, especially the strand on the top left. In fact, the thing to his right ear shouldn't be divided from the rest of his hair when looking up. The reason it is divided when he's looking down is because hair != face.
I don't see a pattern behind the shading in the hair. I think there should always be some reason to have a shade, like distance, light, or just manipulating an area into one direction or another.
You could try and make the hair move while walking, too.

I'm not sure if I agree with that missing black pixel in the right-foot-forward-going-down frame.

Have you looked at an animated version? The walking animation might look strange due to the fact that the feet are basically a box with a diagonal in it which is jumping from side to side.

As for the facing left and -right versions, I suggest playing with outlines between hair and face. No idea what might happen then.
I recommend looking in detail at these walking frames, too. They seem jumpy. Also: left arm right foot, right arm left foot!
Then you'll notice the reason you put his head one pixel down in the walk-forward frames is because he's actually tilting towards the camera, not because he suddenly became smaller.
So in your walking frames, you should make him more diagonal and make his head stick forward, not down!

PS of some sort: Read the tutorial again and try to remake some of the other examples he shows (like the FF characters), outline by outline, flat color by flat color, shading by shading. Whenever you add a pixel or don't add a pixel, think about why the artist added that pixel or left it out.
Then when you work on your own art, think about every pixel you add or remove. Because in 16x24 (?), every. pixel. counts. ;)

Okay, critique over.
Kind regards, Jonas
PPS: I recognized the hair and was giggling a bit because I read the tutorial myself two days ago. It really helped me get my first pixels on the screen :)

28
Pixel Art / Re: [WIP] Jonas Art thread
« on: June 10, 2012, 02:21:06 am »

I'm still not happy with the trees... They look too fluffy and plastic, I guess... Any ideas I could try out (they don't have to work) on how to adapt them to the rest of the set?
EDIT: I modified the trees to look darker, more voluminous and more like rest of the pieces... Now they seem too dark almost.

@cupcake thanks :)

29
Pixel Art / Re: [WIP] Jonas Art thread
« on: June 09, 2012, 10:23:02 pm »
EDIT: yaay! big trees! (I was sloppy when adding the trees to the map, so they don't look perfect... I still need some advice concerning how to place the trees.

Love the simple black-and-white!

Thanks, me too!

I don't have any suggestions for specific tile changes right now, but the structure on the right - is that meant to be a house or ruins? Right now it just looks like a wall.

It is a wall : ) It's supposed to be ruins. Can you tell me which version of the picture you're talking about? I worked on the ruins and I feel the newer version is better, so if you're talking about the old version (simple wall, and to the right of it is some sort of triangle-ish wall) please take a look at the new version (first post, has two wall fragments to the right not just one) and tell me if it's easier to see now.
I'm currently working on larger trees, then come back.
EDIT: the tree looks good, except maybe for the fact that the light is coming from the wrong direction -.-

30
Pixel Art / Re: [WIP] Jonas Art thread
« on: June 09, 2012, 01:19:51 pm »
EDIT: I added a couple of new tiles and modified the map. The updated version is in post 1. I felt it was overburdened so I removed some of the grass and flowers.
I'm also starting to dislike the single tree, it seems not to fit too well with the rest of the graphics...
I think it's too small, too white, and gives a bad sense of perspective. What do you think?

EDIT:
in-****ing-credible! thanks helm, that was a genius idea. It's much darker now, though. But not to the point that it becomes annoying I think.
Some of the lone trees now look pretty deplaced, but after mapping trees for two hours I'm giving the trees a rest.



I have changed the flowers, removed the background behind the trees, and modified the stairs. I merely made them bigger, though. Maybe that already helps.
Making them more irregular was impossible... Increasing stair size in any other way broke the height of the cliffs... Maybe someone else will have a genius idea, but I recently ran out of them it seems ;P

The blue thing is exactly 16x12, to have an idea how large that is.

@Helm: That's a great Idea! Its so much neater on the eye than those hordes of lined trees :)

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