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Messages - Vakinox
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General Discussion / Re: Community Problems
« on: February 16, 2014, 02:22:44 am »
You're complaining about us

@tim I'm complaining only about certain community members and the way the forums work overall. If you feel insulted by my remarks, it is only because you have a perception or idea that aligns with the certain members I'm criticizing or you've done something to harm, segregate, and snub users whom have disadvantages using the site. What this discussion is for isn't for complaining about you or free help, it's for finding possible solutions for the admitted flaws and important parts of the site so that everyone's experience can be improved.

you said it yourself the "cost" of making a critique is more than the "reward". -Conceit

I'm not ignoring what's happening on the community's side either as shown by Conceit's reply, I'm currently attempting to discuss through PMs with other members on solutions we can create to also prevent the professional users who do contribute unique and exceptional content and critiques from having their time wasted. Also as Ryumaru points out, there is two side to every story. We currently should be having a discussion to figure out how we can help users like yourself feel motivated to contribute more of these beautiful pieces of advice and alterations in a way so that you will feel rewarded with the time and content you have put into the site.

And apologies for the communication breakdown.

General Discussion / Re: Community Problems
« on: February 14, 2014, 07:18:53 pm »
@ErekT:  Not angry, just a little confused about the premise. Originally this thread was created under the requests of PDD and Atnas, two of the original people who wanted to open the issue to the community and discuss the topic so I'm going to leave it for them two to continue the thread any further if they like. Instead, the thread turned into a personal attack on me (pointed out by the previous comment) and how people like me are just irrelevant to the interest of the community. From what it seems to be this thread was requested for a community lynching and me to sit here in my free time to tirelessly explain and justify why some things are issues within the community. I've explained my position on the subject and the possible source of the issue, but that's irrelevant to the thread and community's interest.

You're free to do whatever you wish to do. My criticism isn't with you, and it has never been, but of the structure of the site and the community standards.

General Discussion / Re: Community Problems
« on: February 14, 2014, 06:41:51 pm »

General Discussion / Re: Community Problems
« on: February 14, 2014, 05:52:41 pm »

General Discussion / Community Problems
« on: February 14, 2014, 03:29:10 pm »
So first off, apologies for getting frustrated yesterday and bashing the entire community. However for me it was something I've just been bottling up ever since I've began frequenting here. Some other members responded and felt it was necessary that the issues I and the many like me are having should be properly discussed, and perhaps investigated to find a solution for.

To add perspective to the case, I've been coming here for two years as my profile will confirm. I've actually been accessing the site longer than that with an account metalmac which has been here since 2010, and have been visiting or lurking ever since. Amidst my stay I have noticed and experienced several trends which tend to give new users a sense of hopelessness or disgruntles them because of a lacking in initiative put forth by the tenured members. Most users do tend to get at least one or two responses to their [C+C]'s, but I've seen 0 replies before on threads.

What is more common is two users usually with less than 200 or so posts accumulated will add one small but useful critique to a newbie's thread, but once the newbie comes back with an update or progress on his art then the thread sinks to the second page and is abandoned. Unless you're a newbie like Beetleking22 who already shows an impressive amount of skill, or are a well-known member, then being somebody else means your thread isn't going to last long here. Most tenured members usually don't come out unless one of those two instances appear, and very rarely do I find they waste time on newcomers for whatever reason. In fact most days posting anything feels pretty useless, especially if your someone with inadequate enough skill or adjustment to the community's technical vocabulary to attempt to gamble updating your thread and watch that work go sinking to the bottom of the forums.

I have had good unique experiences here however, they are very very rare instances. PPD is a rare exception to tenured members, and he does try occasionally to accommodate newcomers and will respond to your PMs. Which once I simply gave up posting and tried PM'ing multiple users for aid on my work, and that's when I finally met another user who gave me his e-mail and a decent amount of input on my project. And while it didn't last long, and soon turned a cold shoulder to my inquires, although it was a very helpful experience. That happened back in October of 2012. Then there was another user by the name of Facet, who gave an impressive critique which I've been admiring ever since. However the advice and edit was a bit far above my comprehension or skill level, so I know this can feel like a waste as I am disappointed in myself for not being able to accommodate what he was hoping to see. This didn't occur until June of 2013. If you notice the dates, there is a long time between farming a good response and most of the other time is spent experiencing the slow drift to the bottom.

For most community members, tenured or frequenters, tend to feel exhausted going into the time to edit other people's work and creating critiques. I believe it resembles a problem I worked out while I was having lots of bouts with depression.

Motivation = cost < rewards

If the cost of replying is more than the reward of providing a proper comment or critique, then most users have no motivation to provide such an effort. Communities like these are structured on original content, and to come here frequently and provide thoughtful and original responses can be disingenuous to the user as they do not have a proper reward system in place. The way members seem to be rewarded is by coming in contact with users who provide and submit the best and more interesting material, so they stick to commenting and helping those users rather than waste effort appealing to the others that suffer from abandonment in the process.

Even though I've had a hard time or possibly somewhat experienced negligence  or some similar form of negativity here, I still find the free time to poke my head in and see what's being discussed or how others are progressing. And even occasionally I will take the gamble and submit some work in hopes it gets replies from other users.

I tried to branch out and highlight some of the more obvious problems instead of just straight copy/pasting my previous rant. Hopefully the effort and reach resonates with the community and we can properly discuss the matters, and maybe bring some possible amends or solution to the table. I'm grateful for everyone who felt the need to make the subject more open for input.

Pixel Art Feature Chest / Re: Xedrai's sprites
« on: February 14, 2014, 03:59:33 am »
Not to press the issue, but a generalization would be using specific instances limited to only my experiences and using them to judge the community overall. This constructive criticism is coming from the two years I've been on this site and watching other threads, alike my own, banished without care or welcome to the bowels of the forums.

There's only been one genuine offer and exceptional tutor from here in my time here, but they didn't stick around long and hastily abandoned any and all progress with me despite it being the same simple request I've had since the last two years which is help on one GB style 8-bit sprite which I am patiently still working on with very sparse input from any pixelart communities because of their seemingly narcissistic in-crowd circlejerk. Most will drop in one critique and leave it at that. And because people find it's unnecessary to lend me or anyone in my situation a hand, we're the ones that has to suffer for it and has the hard time learning or correcting ourselves in the end. Thus spend years wading through trial and error to no avail. 

Not to mention I have those real life issues (jobs, bills, etc) too, or a.k.a that lack of time to do this stuff but I still make time to do it and come on here and comment anyways. Yet somehow, this excuses other people's rudeness instead of my own when I pointing out theirs. As for other new users of the community, the description in my other comment still stands which is even further confirmed by the comment you made. It's not sarcasm, maybe a bit sharp but it's from just the simple truth these things exist and happen which is even acknowledged and reflected by your own statements.

Personally I would've loved to be a part of the community, to grow, expand my portfolio, and learn as much as I could. However, it's you guys who rejected people like me and the rest of the people that simply gave up. You don't need new comers, you only value people who are already professionals to come and further bring traffic and reputation to the site and to help yourselves feel validated by other artists you believe are on the same or a higher level than your own. Apologies for my experience and evaluations, but it's been long needed to be stated and taken under advising.

Pixel Art Feature Chest / Re: Xedrai's sprites
« on: February 14, 2014, 12:33:52 am »
I don't mean to jump in to be the bearer of bad news or anything, but unless you are a community favorite or presenting a piece that is acceptable to their tastes, it is very hard to get proper feedback from my experience. Portrait pieces tend to be a big thing and platformers too, and RPG 3/4th perspective pieces (Beetleking) if your art seems serious enough. Newbies tend to frequent the place often so it's understandable that most community members try to ignore them and let most pleas or requests for constructive criticism sink to the bottom of the forums. What I've noticed is members here take their art very seriously, as if the medium were for new-age picassos or da Vincis, and unless you're deemed a potential asset to their community or already have a quality enough post that feels adequate enough to win over a response, it will be very hard to get constructive input or even a simple reply. You're exceptionally lucky to have gotten this many so far.

So understand, because even though you may feel like you're putting enough effort and progress into your project that may make you feel like you deserve a response, the community is more likely to sigh and click the next post in a search to find what makes their insides giddy. And even though pixelart itself is an outdated medium that is retro at best, there's still a shunning or taboo around certain styles or perspectives of pixelart.

I'm not a professional, but I believe your "normal" icon art is fine and nearly perfect for the common eye. The cave troll however needs a bit of work, regarding both it's feet, legs, and shading. I wish I were more experienced to give you the proper response that would be required, but one of the things that catches my eye most is the mixture between flat shading around the shoulder area and the dithering in the rest. The black outline needs to be removed, and try to focus on chest muscles rather than ribs. Not everything needs to be buffed. Had I have the proper experienced to do so, I'd take my time and try my best to work and reedit the sprite towards your next step which would be a proper model with head and arms.

Pixel Art / Re: [WIP] East Walking Animation [C+C}
« on: February 08, 2014, 09:13:20 pm »
Thank you, honestly it gave me some ideas. Here's some further updates:




Spent the night reworking some stuff, and found that shading the shoulder area gave it a better look. Still preferred the arm movement on the original, however I'm trying to work on adding a back swing to the 3rd frame like the one in your animation. The obstructed arm in my animation only swings forward, but I need to find someway to make it swing backwards as your sprite clearly points out. Also, the standing frame needs work. Yours looks really good and I wanted to use it but it doesn't blend well with the other frames on my animation when I try to combine them. I'll probably find someway to add in these edits sometime in the near future, but for right now I'm pretty content with the result on the East moving animation.

What I'm having problems with now is a North moving animation. Feet are primarily the problem, but arm motion is another too. Any suggestions?

Pixel Art / [WIP] East Walking Animation [C+C}
« on: February 07, 2014, 07:21:12 pm »
Is this close to looking okay? 1: 2: Panel: Advice?

I believe I'm making progress from (1) to (2), and believe that the hand part of the animation is looking great.

The problem I think is mostly with the animation of the legs and body.

Taking any suggestions or edits I can get, any help possible is welcomed.

. . .

Made a quick edit, but still needs work.

Total dimensions are 16 width by 16 height in pixels. (16x16 sprites)

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