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Messages - Bissle
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General Discussion / Re: On getting critiqued and battling critique
« on: August 21, 2012, 06:38:38 pm »

@Bissle, if you can't explain your opinion other than "It doesn't appeal to me.." then honestly, what's the point of saying anything at all(not a rethorical question)? It as nonconstructive as it gets.

I must've read your post the wrong way. In the context of constructive criticism, a statement like that which couldn't be backed up would be inappropriate and would be best left out. If you were just asking someone what they thought of something, and they expressed they didn't like it but couldn't provide a clear reason, that's another story.

"I don't like cheese."
"How can you not like cheese?"
"I don't like the way it tastes."
"Um... "

But that's all besides the point.

I like what you wrote regarding the types of people who *give* criticism. The few times I make edits, it tends to be a combo of 2,3, and 5. A lot of the time it's that a point I want to make is so hard to put into words that an edit would better communicate what I feel needs improvement. Also, a point that delves into 4, it's a way to gauge my own skill and improvement. Regardless there's usually something about the original piece that I like and want to see it develop further.

General Discussion / Re: On getting critiqued and battling critique
« on: August 21, 2012, 01:03:37 pm »
Hmm, interesting way to think of critique, and I see shades of myself in all of them, especially two and four... actually, I am types two and four. Not an excuse, but people who fit in those two types tend to have feelings of guilt when ignoring advice, regardless of the actual quality of the advice. Also, there is a fear of coming off as arrogant and defensive. If someone who you judge to be an "expert" gives you advice, you feel compelled to at least attempt it, but even these "experts" are human, meaning their thoughts are every bit as subjective as anyone else's, though coming from a perspective based on experience and skill. At the end of the day, while being completely close-minded can be a terrible thing, a lack of conviction and trust in one's own judgment and values are even worse. But for those in those categories, deveoping that level of self-confidence is easier said than done.

And a specific type of critique Ive noticed which kind of bothers me is whenever someone is drawing a female figure it seems someone has to post critique that boils down to that it needs to improve by closer matching whoevers notions of bueaty, like boobs need to be bigger, waist thinner, hips bigger etc.  Of course thats just one of those times to take critique with a grain of salt.

I have to agree, though this type of critique has become much less common and more nuanced when you do see it over the years, likely due to the posters getting older or more understanding of the fact that women don't look the same. I was pleasantly surprised to see a thread where the subject was a woman who wasn't particularly curvaceous, and some of the crits on her body actually had that in mind, including a reference pic of a real woman with a similar body-type instead of "bigger boobs/smaller nose/fuller lips/wider hips, please.  :-*"

I have to side with Helm on the issue of discussing critique. A criticism that boils down to "It doesn't appeal to me" is not one that can be discussed objectively all the time. Sometimes, you just don't like something and it can't be put into words. Being on the receiving of that can feel unhelpful, but as has been stated earlier, you can't please everyone and should just do what you like.

Based on what you wrote before, out of curiosity, Seiseki, what is an average conversation with that friend like when you're the one giving criticism?

Pixel Art Feature Chest / Re: [WIP] Battle Sprite(s):Wangsta Chick
« on: August 21, 2012, 12:20:55 pm »
Just wanted to post the penultimate product. I had posted this elsewhere a while back but found it rude not to put it here as well. When I get myself some more time, all I'm going to do is work on the boots and I'll be satisfied.  :)

And a GIF with what I managed to save of the process:

I started on animations a couple of weeks ago, but due to time restrictions, I don't have anything complete enough to get crit on yet.

I appreciate all the crit; I would never have gotten this to the point where I can look at it without thinking, "HATEHATEHATEFIXIXFIXHATEHATEHATEFIXFIXFIX" without this thread. :D

Pixel Art / Re: Funny Monkey
« on: July 29, 2012, 10:33:39 pm »
It's about time baby tossing caught on.   :crazy:

I like the monkey and the animation. My mind jumped to Lollipop-Man, too at first, but mainly due to the lack of color. Not much to say about the baby itself at this stage. The idle animation is somewhat awkward, but I'm sure it'll get straightened out later. Very funny; I'd like to see more!

Pixel Art / Re: Applejack [WIP]
« on: July 29, 2012, 09:37:48 am »
Beyond the general WIP roughness, it's coming along rather well. I recommend doing some more referencing of Applejack in 3/4 view.

Her head may be at a slightly different tilt than the pics I've looked up, but her eyes are too close together. Either less of her right (rear) eye should be visible or her left eye should be moved farther away.

Pixel Art / Re: Turn Based mock-up
« on: July 27, 2012, 04:10:11 am »
Looking good! What are those red creatures on the center bridge supposed to be? I'm having trouble telling. I agree with PyreBros that the simple texturing is working quite well. I think the trees do need to be better integrated into the terrain they're on. If they were not grass, they would be great, but on sand/ground, the green shadow and anti-aliasing looks really out of place.

Pixel Art Feature Chest / Re: [WIP] Battle Sprite(s):Wangsta Chick
« on: July 27, 2012, 04:06:03 am »
@Grimsane: Yeah, I was regretting posting her, and was hoping to edit her out before someone replied. I was thinking that particular dress would look best if shoulders were emphasized, but clearly I went too far. I did reduce the shoulders, but I kept her general figure. You sure had her squeezed into that outfit, by the way.  :P

Tried a couple of minor changes on the head as suggested, ultimately moving her head a pixel or two down, giving the neck more shape, and very very slightly changing her 'do to highlight the difference. I left out the choker temporarily for the same reason. I also edited her hand(s) to appear less blocky and semi-masculine. Still very much WIP.

About the neck... I do want to preserve the length, but at this scale, it does make one wonder what the line is from "lol, I bet she was called Giraffe in school" --> "Only in Burma, dude" --> "How does it not snap under the weight of her head?".

This sprite has come a long way, it's nice to see you being persistent with it and very accepting of critique.

Hey, critique is what this place is for after all. ;D

I do appreciate your edit of the legs. I did some referencing of it and other pictures of legs in order to improve it them.

Thank you! What surprised me is that other than the head and the perspective of the front arm, that's not much different from how the sprite looks without the clothing layer. Yay for progress, I guess.

The more I compare my arm to the edit and life, the more I realized, that, like Psiweapon said, the arm's perspective is messed up. There is no foreshortening whatsoever, making it look borderline disjointed. That will be addressed when I feel like working on it again. For the head, I will have to reduce the length of her legs.. actually, I need to do that anyway. I've already made her too tall (she should only be 168 px/5'6ish minus the hat and boots), and adjusting the head with everything else as-is would make her appear even taller.

Again, haven't worked on adjusting the positioning of the head and arms yet, but that is to come.

Pixel Art / Re: Animation (walking)
« on: July 27, 2012, 02:00:47 am »
Besides the animation issues addressed above, there is something about the rotation that's distracting. Her pigtails/the little balls don't rotate fully with her. From the 3/4 view frames, they do not change perspective--just stand in place as the rest of her head moves. I'll make an edit when I can.

Very cute though. I like the colors. I'm sure your daughter will like it if/when she sees it.  ;D

Pixel Art / Re: [WIP] Twily and the Firefly
« on: July 25, 2012, 09:53:03 pm »
I know what you mean, but from looking at official art for the character he is depicting (Twilight Sparkle), her horn really does stick out that way. It's a question of whether he wants more "realism" or wants to stick to the original design. I think the latter would be better based on where he's going.

Pixel Art Feature Chest / Re: [WIP] Battle Sprite(s):Wangsta Chick
« on: July 24, 2012, 01:53:51 pm »
Let me take that back--when I was saying I wasn't done to 100% satisfaction, I should have clarified that my current level of satisfaction was 20% tops.  :blind: After posting, the more I looked at it, the more I hated it, especially her left arm and the legs in general. This is far, far from done.

@Lachie Dazdarian : Does the face look any more clear from when you last commented? Also, thanks again for suggesting fingerless gloves!

@PypeBros: I was just messing around with the outfit in those frames. Ultimately I feel that while it may look better, the way it was flowing implied lighter fabric than what I imagine the jersey-dress would be made of. The hat... well, it's kind of a weird combo between a beerbox hat and a standard baseball cap, but your point still stands. And those jagged lines looked pretty awful. I hope it's not as bad.

@Grimsane: Ugh, I don't know what came over me. I'm going through the world backwards. I start off with clear sectioning off of the limbs while blocking out, and then when it comes to fully rendering, I end up with tree stumps.


Another edit. Toned down the hair, made the jersey-dress conform more to her shape (without being too tight), simplified the legs and shaded them better to give them more depth, worked some more on her right hand, including hinting that she actually has elbows, erased and am in process of starting her left over in a different position completely, and lightened her "base" skintone to provide more contrast that would make the face easier to read. I fear that her left limbs are too dark, now... almost dark enough to pass for the pantyhose of the character she's parodying.


As I said before, I do want to work on something else, and over the weekend I did start on a new sprite. Another Xenogears reference (last one, too, I swear!), this time a reference to this lady.

I'm not aiming for as strong as resemblance as I was with the previous character--really I'm not aiming for that at all. I'm going for a supertall (going by 1 pixel = 1 cm, she's roughly six feet) Eurasian lady with a long face and neck and pronounced facial features, dressed like a lounge singer. The blue line indicates where her chest would roughly be if I was following standard proportions versus what I actually did.

Beyond the terrible hands, I'm concerned about the colors I've picked for her skin, and I am afraid she won't match at all with the other character in terms of style. But hey, at least she has elbows!  ;D

She's not actually going to be posed like this;this is merely a template of sorts to keep on hand when I get to her actual pose.

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