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Messages - Uhfgood
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General Discussion / Re: Want advice in how to learn pixeling
« on: August 17, 2015, 08:38:32 pm »
Thanks Ambivorous!

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General Discussion / Re: Want advice in how to learn pixeling
« on: August 17, 2015, 06:54:27 pm »
From what I can get out of your (pretty vague) goals you want some kind of comprehensive progression list like this but for pixel art? That's actually sound and it's kinda interesting that you hardly see one set down for pixelling specifically...

Exactly like that, but it doesn't have to be *that* comprehensive but in order of possible difficulty (of course different people see that differently which is fine, but it's good to have something to start from).

I see. Well in that case I'd have to say just go straight to Galaga.
The thing is that you are making the game in tiny bits either way. It's not like someone just sits down and codes Galaga from scratch in one try and then hits compile. First you'd just try put an image on the screen, then you move that image, then you add in player controls, then collision, and then finally AI.

A note about the games thing, I've completed a few so I know what I'm doing there (including the aforementioned Tetris).  I was using the article as an example of what I was looking for.  As far as going straight to Galaga, the point of the article was creating a progression of games to create that added on features.  For instance Galaga has waves in patterns, and a kind of AI.  Tetris does not.  In fact it doesn't have a lot of things so it's generally simpler to implement.  2d collision is one of the fundamentals of game development because you don't have a game if you can't have two objects interact with each other.  If you've read the article, he next recommends breakout because the collision is more advanced, and adds some extra ball deflection stuff, and level layout, then he recommends pac-man because of the AI of the ghosts (simple ai but probably a good recommendation)... And so on.  It's somewhat about scope because doing games with a smaller scope first means you'll gain confidence in completing games.  Any way there are other games you could choose and it could be a different set of games that do roughly the same thing.  Maybe you want to add in Galaga or space invaders in between breakout and pacman.  Because the waves of enemies roughly correspond to the rows of bricks and then there is some basic ai there.  Point is, there's a gradual expansion of scope.  Going back to pixel art, I couldn't make something like this - http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/4328.htm until I can do something like this - http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/97251.htm -- Extreme examples I know but hopefully you get the idea I'm trying to convey.

All of this to get down to this:


I'm capable of doing traditional art, and have done some in the past.  I'm not what you would call an accomplished artist, but I'm not entirely a beginner.  I'm not asking for either of these and apparently, again, I did not communicate what I was asking very well.

Actually to me it sounds like you want the former, which is good.

Draw pictures of realistic faces from photos/real life....

You will need to learn values to shade realistically...

Now that we have those down, let's work on colours...

Draw cartoon faces and shade in a cartoonly manner...

Finally, you are now the jedi-wizard master of representing real life things with believable less-real things.
Just yolo straight on in to any pixel art project. Anything you have been drawing you will be able to pixel and if you want to pixel something you don't know how to draw, learn to draw it first...

Further you will need to hone your skills.

Redo cluster studies...

This is exactly what I'm looking for.  That didn't sound like it was very difficult for you to come up with, so how could I have worded my original question differently in order for you to have given me this answer in the first place? :-)

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General Discussion / Re: Want advice in how to learn pixeling
« on: August 17, 2015, 03:29:02 am »
Well that's interesting. I didn't think that's what you were asking because there's no need for that kind of artificial progression. It's really very simple, you have this whole set of traditional skills, and a much smaller set of pixel skills to learn, and an order to learn them in. I think we all agreed on that.

Subject order is largely irrelevant to artistic growth. If you want to do shape studies you could get the same value from a face, a flower, or the landscape Cyangmou posted. The order of subjects doesn't really matter, it's really a personal preference. Are you planning on making a lot of graphics containing people? Practice with people. All I would say on that matter is to not stick to one particular subject, a lot of people tend to get "comfortable" and stagnate.

It is not much more difficult to draw a human face, rather, it is more apparent that a human face is incorrect than a plant. Both are just drawing what you see.

Subject order is irrelevant. Concept order is what matters, and much more important, which is why each answer addressed it.

At least you understand what I wanted, however, subject order might be relevant.  Take for instance this progression, humanoid cartoon characters -> realistic humanoid comic book characters -> actual people -- all using photo references.  Since the cartoon characters are the most simplified versions of actual people, it should be less difficult than doing the realistic comic book characters which should be less difficult then drawing actual people.  For me this would be the case at least.  But with each step I should become better or more efficient at it and then soon the actual people won't be that hard anymore.  Since you're trying to draw what you see this progression would also be helpful with that, since cartoon characters are already abstracted and you're not using the symbol system quite as much, and focusing more on the actual lines... then when you got proficient with that, moving on to comic book characters would do the same thing only now I would be able to learn proportion and more realistic anatomy.  By the time I got to actual people the leap wouldn't be so big.

What do most people do when they first start out, they start out as kids copying their favorite comic strip/cartoon characters, then when starting to get in their teens they start copying comic books... by the time they get to proper art classes they're already pretty good artists and use the proper art classes for refinement.

I also apologize for being lengthy in here but I wanted you to understand why I was asking what I asked.

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General Discussion / Re: Want advice in how to learn pixeling
« on: August 17, 2015, 02:51:23 am »
I will use all your advice, and like I said I'm not disregarding anything but I'm asking a specific question.  You know an obvious progression which would probably govern what I do is resolution.  I could start with 8x8 images and then move up to 16x16 and 32x32 and 48x48 and so on until I'm at a certain resolution.  So these are specific progressions I could start with.  Do I start out with house hold objects, or tiny landscapes.  Am I being clear at all?  I feel like I must be miscommunicating.

wrong. the resolutions don't differ in terms of difficulty. They difference of them lies in how difficult it can get to illustrate things with fewer pixels readable. The bigger stuff it the longer it takes to render with pixels, but that has more to do with mechanical work than with difficulty.

So to address what you said here I was simply giving an example of a progression, not specifically suggesting I do this particular progression.  The example is clearer because there are steps 8x8, 16x16 and so on NOT that I'm asking should I do resolution, I'm asking what types of pieces should I work on that go from easier to more difficult.  You did mention taking a reference photo and sketching that 10 or 20 times, and that human faces were more difficult.  So that's kind of part of an answer.  That's sort of what I was looking for you said "try something like that because it doesn't have any faces", as I wanted a list of things to draw (or in this case pixel, but it's still applicable). 

In any case thanks for your time, and I apologize for the trouble.

What I really wanted was something like this article - http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/game-programming/how-do-i-make-games-a-path-to-game-development-r892 -- In it Geoff Howland lays down a path to development by having you complete specific games.  First he says tetris, then breakout, and then further.  This is what I'm trying to figure out with regards to pixel art.

Wow, don't ever do this. Don't ever recommend this to any new programmer - you will put them back so many years if they try do things this way.
But this does bring some nice analogies.

The article IIRC isn't recommending a someone who never coded before to jump in and make tetris.  He was suggesting different games to make in order of (in his opinion) complexity.  So if you know programming but want to start making games, tetris is a good one to start with because of lack of AI, and so forth.

So now that I've explained that, you may ask more specifically. Do you want us to tell you how to learn traditional art before delving into pixel art, or are you already capable of doing traditional art? or do you want us to tell you which kind of perspectives are easiest and what kinds of games to copy to kind of get an idea of how to make generic pixel art (really slowly)?
If you just want the latter I really doubt people here are going to be willing to help, because they take a lot of pride in not only their work, but also their advice.

I'm capable of doing traditional art, and have done some in the past.  I'm not what you would call an accomplished artist, but I'm not entirely a beginner.  I'm not asking for either of these and apparently, again, I did not communicate what I was asking very well.

I can't make it any clearer than "What do I make, in steps easier to more difficult.?" not "how do I make *x*".  There is some mistake I made in how I worded my original message.  When I said 'start from scratch' I didn't actually mean start back at the beginning when you know nothing about traditional art.  I meant to learn concepts what specific pieces would you make in order, from easiest to hardest?

In any case I won't bother you guys any more since there's no point when you don't understand what I want help with.

I apologize for taking up your time.

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General Discussion / Re: Want advice in how to learn pixeling
« on: August 16, 2015, 07:25:32 pm »
Thanks for that excellent reply.  I'm not disregarding anything anyone is saying.  I know you need to know traditional art (I figure I'm learning that concurrently).  What I really wanted was something like this article - http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/game-programming/how-do-i-make-games-a-path-to-game-development-r892 -- In it Geoff Howland lays down a path to development by having you complete specific games.  First he says tetris, then breakout, and then further.  This is what I'm trying to figure out with regards to pixel art.

What kinds of pieces should I start with?  Once I've done those kinds of pieces what would I go onto next.

For instance, maybe I should start out with simple geometric shapes in 2D.  Just to get used to pixeling with my mouse.  Then I make shapes in 3d.  Then I try to find objects that fit the 3d shapes and just do small objects.  May be I should grab some photos and then copy them.  Notice: I'm not asking how to make a pixel cube, but rather should I do a pixel cube and then what, pictures of moving boxes as the next step or what.  WHAT DO I DRAW? not how do I draw it.  Am I making sense?

I will use all your advice, and like I said I'm not disregarding anything but I'm asking a specific question.  You know an obvious progression which would probably govern what I do is resolution.  I could start with 8x8 images and then move up to 16x16 and 32x32 and 48x48 and so on until I'm at a certain resolution.  So these are specific progressions I could start with.  Do I start out with house hold objects, or tiny landscapes.  Am I being clear at all?  I feel like I must be miscommunicating.

What would be the "Path to becoming a pixel artist" not how do I do something specific.  I know I need to know art in general, I know I need to practice, but what do I practice on?

Anyways please don't feel like I'm trying to be a nuisance because I'm just trying to pin down specific steps on what to work on (now how to work on them).

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General Discussion / Re: Want advice in how to learn pixeling
« on: August 16, 2015, 02:55:19 pm »
That didn't really tell me what I wanted to know, but thanks for replying with some thoughtful responses Joe.

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General Discussion / Re: Want advice in how to learn pixeling
« on: August 15, 2015, 09:28:45 pm »
Are you talking about drawing as in paper and pencil, or do you mean just start pixeling whatever from scratch.  Also I'm not really sure about the cluster studies.  I've read some of those threads but it's not much more than interesting to me.  (That is I didn't know what I was suppose to pick out of the cluster threads, even though it was interesting).

And by "supplementing with value/cluster studies" do you mean read them or do them myself, "study of the clusters themselves using restricted palettes", meaning again I'm supposed to make my own studies or experiements, or what do you mean by "study".

I'm just trying to figure out steps to learn pixeling.

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Pixel Art / [C+C]Walking animation of Hypno-Joe (My game sprite)
« on: August 15, 2015, 09:14:22 pm »


Here he is in-game:  Notice I have a run animation (composed of two walk frames), and drop/jump frames (single frames which are semi-temporary)


You can check the game out here: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=48414.msg1169433#msg1169433

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General Discussion / Want advice in how to learn pixeling
« on: August 15, 2015, 07:34:51 pm »
A quick disclaimer:  I want you to know up front I'm NOT asking for how to do something specifically or for specific tutorials.  I can look up various tutorials myself if I want to know how to do something in particular.  I know the best way to improve is to practice and that art fundamentals are probably a requirement.  This being said.

I want to know how I should progress and what I should work on.  Obviously I have my game, but the game is a very narrow slice of learning as it has specific needs.  How do I start, I lack the ability to come up with things on my own, I can usually copy stuff pretty good.  So how should I go about learning pixeling.

Do I start with some basic shapes and then 3d shapes, and so on.  Do I start with copying a photo reference or actual game art.  I see there's a lot of line art in the line art thread, maybe I should start with that.  I don't really know where to begin.

Is there a progression I should follow, or what would you recommend as a progression?  Maybe I start with simple shapes and objects, then go on to filling in line art, and then, take a photo and shrink it down and copy it, and then just copying a photo by eye, and finally just something original.

Maybe I should just do 'pixel-overs' of photos or paintings, and then try looking up game art and copying it, maybe I should do them all.  How would YOU start if you had to start from scratch, what would you work with in progression when learning?

Maybe a step in one progression would be to do every pixel art tutorial out there first and then try some stuff on your own?

Just give me some advice.  I do *NOT* need to learn how to anti-alias properly, or avoid banding and pillow shading, or whatever... I mean I might need to learn all of that, but that's not what I'm asking for in this message.

I would appreciate it if you wouldn't give me an answer like "just start practicing", but what am I to start practicing?

Thanks for your time, I hope this is clear enough.

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Thanks for the reply.  While technically it could be called an image dump I'm thinking more a long the lines of consolidating a bunch of pieces of artwork that I posted in a thread so that I don't have so many loose files around.

But I understand.  I do actually have a webhost for my blog that I can put images on that won't be going away any time soon, I might start using it, but drop box is so much more convenient.

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