Pixelation

Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Carl Winslow on February 12, 2010, 01:07:20 am

Title: stuff I don't even know!
Post by: Carl Winslow on February 12, 2010, 01:07:20 am
-new-
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/spaceship.png)(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/squidler.png)
first was made for something I forgot, the squid was an experiment.

-old-
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/Mizu-mk2.png)
Some Valentine gift I made for a friend. maybe like 10-15 minutes tallying it all up.
There's a sketch to go with it, but I honestly don't feel like pulling my scanner out until it's actually Valentine's day.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/Mizu-mk2-5.png)
updated with changes etc

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/lawyer-6.png)


Any thoughts so i might make this better before I have to give it to them?
Title: Re: some robot thing
Post by: Carl Winslow on February 12, 2010, 03:17:15 am
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/Mizu-mk2-1.png)
ended up making some adjustments to the arms and eyes. eyes still don't really look right though. any suggestions?
Title: Re: some robot thing
Post by: Carl Winslow on February 13, 2010, 12:57:59 am
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/Mizu-mk2-2.png)

even more changes. this time taking note that the arms were totally messed up other than not being aligned vertically. also adjusted shading in several areas, along with a few color issues.

nobody has anything to say? there has to be something I'm doing wrong with this. :<
Title: Re: some robot thing
Post by: blumunkee on February 13, 2010, 01:13:48 am
I'm having a hard time reading what this is. I've settled on mecha bear, but that conclusion is admittedly tenuous.

There is a lot of stuff going on here. Consider simplifying some of the inner forms to make them clearer.
Title: Re: some robot thing
Post by: Carl Winslow on February 13, 2010, 01:59:26 am
yeah, I see what you mean. it's really difficult to get a good balance of detail going when i can see what everything is in my head. shouldn't be TOO difficult to simplify it to the basics though.
As to what it is, it's a really drastic re-design of this:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/mizu.png)
this thing is soooo ugly. the only thing I've ended up keeping between this and the new sketch (and the new sprite for that matter) is the head and the basic concepts of the torso.
hopefully I'm getting this in better shape since i'm trying to put it all down in a few days rather than dragging the design out a few weeks.
Title: Re: some robot thing
Post by: rustEdge on February 13, 2010, 02:46:54 am
One issue might be the level of contrast between elements, and contrast between the colors in your palette. The brightness value of the colors in your palette are pretty similar, so things blur into each other even if they have different hue values. With a sprite that small, adding differently colored pixels against each other would result in unintentional dithering, so some of the detail gets lost. You just need to practice simplifying your character into its key features.

The teeny sprite also looks pretty masculine. I wouldn't have guessed that it was female until you posted the larger version. The upper part of the body is much larger than the legs, giving that inverted triangle silhouette that more males have. I know Samus from Metroid was shaped similarly, but it was done so you wouldn't expect a girl to be inside the suit until the big reveal at the end.

Here's an edit on your super-deformed sprites.
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx230/rustEdge/reference%20images/robotess.gif)

I've pumped up the palette contrast, removed two colors, removed some of the dithering, and added some definition by adding some black between the chest plate and the (character's) right shoulder armor.
I've added a more feminine version too. Reduced the shoulder armor's size, brought emphasis to the chest, slimmed down the torso, widened the hips, and thinned the legs and feet.

Your character has so much potential. Don't give up on it just yet.  ;D
Title: Re: some robot thing
Post by: Tourist on February 13, 2010, 03:11:05 am
Thanks for posting the larger sketch, it helps convey what you're trying to do.

The generic set of recommendations are:

I think the palette could be better.  I'm really not that skilled with colors yet, so take the following with a grain of salt. 

The amber colors are almost all the same hue.  If the dark brown was shifted halfway to red you'd get a color that works as both darkest amber and darkest red. 

I think the lightest blue in the larger picture is a better choice than the off-white in the smaller pictures.  The mid-tone blues are rather lifeless compared to the saturated amber and red, or even the bright and dark blues.  Maybe adjust the saturation some? 

The blue side of head/jaw piece looks totally separate from the front jaw piece.  I assume they are supposed to be together like the larger piece?  The lighting makes the side bit look like it sticks out and the amber stripe on the corner of the chin with heavy outlines is too strong of a separator. 

I agree with what blumunkee wrote, the elbows, hands, and chest have too much noise.  Too many contrasting colors in such a small space.   

There's about 8 pixels at the top of the image that aren't being used.  If you weren't reserving this space for text then consider moving the head up and giving yourself more space for the rest of the figure.

Tourist
Title: Re: some robot thing
Post by: Carl Winslow on February 23, 2010, 03:03:06 pm
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/Mizu-mk2-3.png)
I'm pretty sure my changes aren't drastic enough, but it does look loads better now. plus, now I have a properly defined sketch (http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/mizu-mk2-sketch.jpg) of the thing to get an idea of what this in particular looks like. anymore I could do for this?

and while I'm at it, here's a lawyer too
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/lawyer-6.png)
this is actually from way back in december, but i never got any real idea of whether or not I did things right on it. (even though I consider it one of the best things I've ever done.)
Title: Re: Things that make no sense.
Post by: Helm on February 23, 2010, 03:28:19 pm
(http://www.locustleaves.com/robogirl.gif)

It's really difficult for me to explain the process of what I do in something like this but the general critique of it is easy to title: simplifying. Getting shapes to read easier. It's a cost/reward battle between informative detail you want to pack into the sprite and how well it'll read at that size to players. At this percieved res, one single pixel is a *lot* of real-estate. If you pack details close to each other the end result might be impressive-looking but it'll also be confusing. Imagine a real human being where his chest and legs had as much detail on them as their face. The smaller the sprite you're working on is, the more detail you have to sacrifice for readability, basically. Just don't ask me *which* details you should sacrifice, even in my edit I went with experience not with a conscious guideline.
Title: Re: Things that make no sense.
Post by: Tuna Unleashed on February 23, 2010, 10:24:44 pm
fuck i love your robots so much. i feel like i should really see a lot wrong with them but i just can't see much. definitely take some of hemlm's advice. also, the blue dude needs some smoothing out and has quite a bit of banding
Title: Re: Things that make no sense.
Post by: Carl Winslow on February 23, 2010, 10:31:07 pm
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/Mizu-mk2-4.png)
Am i doing it right
alot of the aspects of what you did sorta confused me honestly, but I incorporated alot more to it this time. either way, the palette looks better and everything is much smoother than it was before (even though I'm still not terribly willing to get rid of the gold rims near the hands)
This looks a thousand times better than when I first made it. Definitely remembering the stuff I learned from this one for later work. any more I could do for this?

Tuna:
Haha, thanks about the robot stuff. I honestly never think highly of any of them, but it's good to know that others can find them interesting.
I feel like I'm asking a dumb question, but what is banding? I swear I've heard it before, but I guess I need a reminder. :/
Title: Re: all I ever do is robots
Post by: Carl Winslow on February 26, 2010, 04:31:00 pm
made some stuff from Zone Of the Enders.
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/SRW%20E/raptor-2.png)(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/SRW%20E/neith-3.png)

for an hour a piece, they're okay I guess. I think they're both 5 colors each not counting the grey.

EDIT: fixed some stuff... I think.
Title: Re: all I ever do is robots
Post by: Helm on February 26, 2010, 04:39:32 pm
Here let me try something different. When you look at those last two pieces you've made yourself, do you see anything you'd like to have done better? Do they communicate what you wanted them to? Does the technique feel solid? I'm not asking you to change anything about them, I'm asking, if you could change anything about them what would it be?

Most interested about pixel clusters and how they work together. There's single pixels that noisify, there's broken lines, there's geometric ambiguity, there's some jaggies but instead of editing to fix them, I'm asking if you can spot them and if you agree or disagree that they could be fixed.
Title: Re: all I ever do is robots
Post by: Carl Winslow on February 26, 2010, 05:02:48 pm
to be honest, on Neith (red one) I wouldn't change much except the contrast. it came out exactly as it should have, and I don't think I could simplify it down any further than it is. The Raptor (green) I don't like, but I can't really place what is bugging me on them.
doesn't really help there's some guy breathing down my neck trying to tell me to add outlines to everything, which goes against what I've been told in other cases.

I guess I don't really see anything except the raptor's arms and upper legs. maybe the side of it's head. and the hands, those awful awful hands

EDIT: (http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/SRW%20E/raptor-3.png)
I think I get what you mean. I messed around with it and got most of the really pointy areas smoother.
Title: Re: silly robots
Post by: Jad on February 26, 2010, 11:01:11 pm
Anyways like the 2 dots of shading on the leg.

Either it looks like bumpy shading if you look from far away or blur your vision somewhat. Or it looks like 2 dots if you look closely.

I'd say this is an issue O:

(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/endisaster/raptor-3EDIT.png)

I edit in an attempt to simplify and clarify more O:

question is if I did it well : D
Title: Re: silly robots
Post by: Helm on February 27, 2010, 07:39:28 am
On the edit jad made, look at the triangular visor on top of the head, check how he reigned it the buffer pixels between the outline and the bright color to a single point of anti-alias uniformly. Why did he do that? Look at his edit at 2x zoom and your original at 2x zoom, which is more jaggy? Does either of the two have banding problems? What I'm trying to do is to get you to see the problems.
Title: Re: silly robots
Post by: Carl Winslow on March 15, 2010, 01:32:00 pm
My monitor was breaking (and broken) for awhile, so no time to really do much. :C
Now that I have a new one with good colors, I can get back to trying to understand this stuff. C:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/SRW%20E/Jehuty-1.png)
the palette's rather poopy, but I do believe I managed to catch on what you were talking about with the banding and individual pixels breaking the image up. I get the feeling I should change the darker color set to something bluish, but I fear I'll send it too far to one end of the spectrum. (it's strange being colorblind and picking up coloring, haha.)
The cockpit is a mess now that I look at it more. I'll need to work on it :<
Title: Re: silly robots
Post by: Gil on March 15, 2010, 11:26:48 pm
Biggest problem with this one is that it's a priority mess. I can hardly make out what it is, everything seems to be on the same plane.

When working this small, maybe it's better to simplify more. Try looking at pokémon designs, since the pixelling is a similar style to yours.
Title: Re: silly robots
Post by: Carl Winslow on March 16, 2010, 02:58:50 am
the sad part is it's pretty much down to it's simplest shapes. any further down and it's no longer recognizable as Jehuty.
To be perfectly fair, if I did this again I would make it much larger. it's simply too complex a subject to be this small. :/
Title: Re: silly robots
Post by: Jad on March 16, 2010, 11:41:36 am
Carl, have confidence in yourself and the pixels. You are in no way operating in the smoothest and most efficient way possible, so saying that you've achieved some kind of ultimate limit sounds silly - if your reply to critique is 'I've exhausted the limits of the current format' then it's the same as saying that your image is ultimate and impossible to improve.

I don't think that's what you wanted to say, so man up and believe in the pixel * U *

I think you could've worked more with posing in the process of making a mini-pixel jehuty, never mind if you get the basic shapes down if they're in a placement that doesn't convey jehuty's silhouette and posture - the bend of the spine, etc, are things that are very significant in Jehuty's build. This one leans forward - the original jehuty always had that hips thrust forwards thing going on.

Working larger seems like a good idea, though, cause you should aim to feel completely safe with the pixels and their quirks when you try to create recognizable form in the small space that this format provides. But it is indeed possible to take this further and make it better gloriouser : DD

I feel sad that I can only explain my points with edits right now, because it's hard to offer good emphasis on what you really want the receiver to take to heart. Oh well! Good luck.
Title: Re: silly robots
Post by: Carl Winslow on March 20, 2010, 12:37:47 am
Yeah, I understand what you mean. I don't really mean to sound that way, it's just at the time I was fighting with the thing to get it looking okay. I'm sure later on I could make it work better. There's still a lot I've yet to learn about this stuff.

I see what you mean about the pose. I hadn't actually thought to do that, I'll get to it once I have more time to spare again. (Boy that'll be fun with how tiny the mid torso on mine is, haha!)
Title: Re: stuff I don't even know!
Post by: Carl Winslow on June 29, 2010, 02:14:13 am
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/spaceship.png)(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/grenaderifle/sprite%20stuff/squidler.png)
first was made for something, the squid was an experiment.

both are like within a month of each other when they were made, so it's kinda hard to gauge anything about whether I improved anything or not.