Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: NaCl on December 28, 2009, 11:32:02 am
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This weeks pixel joint challenge lets you choose any previous challenge from 2009. I am gonna try and enter, with the April fools one, where you try and mimic someones style. I chose Helm, and have been trying to really look at how he do it. Heres what I have so far:
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4972/copy.png) -> (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5864/copy2.png)
The main stylistic things I notice are
- an intricate and varied dither pattern
- a few straight lines somewhere in the piece
- his technique of starting with polygonal shapes for stuff like faces, kind of an angular construction
- black hair
Also, he has sort of a style in the types of colors he picks that I have been completely unable to figure out. Also, Helm has many different styles, but something kind of like what i described seems to be the most recurring.
Input on getting closer to his style is welcomed, as well as more general critique. The hair is not finished, of course. Just blocked it out.
Current:
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3294/copy2necky.png)
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Right now it's lacking the distinct sculptural quality of Helm's work, something which even outside of emulation it would be good to bring in (that is, in general, the face feels a bit mushy).
Helm has quite a few threads explaining how he does things (philosophies as well as methodologies, the former being more useful to know in the long run). I'd suggest grabbing his profile, going to "see last posts", and scrolling through the big ones, as well as looking in general discussion for threads he's started. I know in particular there is one with a wealth of palette discussion which he may or may not have initiated, but contains a rather extensive look into why he picks things.
My memory (and perhaps I'm overlaying my own working too much) is that the colors generally deviate around a central hue (that is, the whole of a region balances out to a specific, usually logical color, most likely a neutral like gray, brown, sage, slate, sandstone, etc), are seldom collected in large/distinct enough quantities/shapes so as to become autonomous (that is, they remain part of the greater, rather than creating color shapes, even in pieces where the color shapes are prominent), and tend towards secondaries.
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Challenge indeed!
- an intricate and varied dither pattern
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=9431.msg104102#msg104102
Helm only briefly mentions it in this post, but I think it speaks a wealth of information about how he approaches dithering. Sketch, construct planes, shade with values, tint and palette play, decide which planes will dither into each other. That's my interpretation, anyway.
You seem to be mixing the stages together, somewhat. There's not a lot of evidence of planes with strong edges and value coverage. I think you need to give more attention to the proportions and construction of the head itself. The base of the nose feels too far down, and the whole mouth section of the face feels flat. The eyebrows seem too close to the eyes, the eyes seem to be too high. Hair is blobby. Take time to think about how the hair is forming groups, where they are coming out of the scalp, and parting, folding and draping. This will inform your silhouette and the speculars on the hair.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/edits/copy_ed.png)
- a few straight lines somewhere in the piece
I think the application of "perfect lines" is more deliberate than this statement implies. Make sure you don't just drop in straight lines arbitrarily. They should compliment the inherent structure of the planes you use for the form. I think they play considerably into the "angular" look that shows up in Helm's work.
Lots of thoughts about it in this thread:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=8110.msg92043#msg92043
Also, he has sort of a style in the types of colors he picks that I have been completely unable to figure out. Also, Helm has many different styles, but something kind of like what i described seems to be the most recurring.
Input on getting closer to his style is welcomed, as well as more general critique. The hair is not finished, of course. Just blocked it out.
ndchristie summarises it well! I actually hadn't thought about it that way. This is a good recent account of Helm's colour selection process and thoughts:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=9431.msg103842#msg103842
Look forward to more! :)
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Thanks for the feedback, guys. I started over, trying to understand this planar, sculptural method both of you, plus Helm, have talked about. It's very difficult. I tried to break it up into polygons, as Helm showed in that one post, but really just ended up with a meaningless grid over the face. Anyway, I resketched and then tried to apply the planes, as I imagined they would look like. I didn't have much success with polygonal planes on many areas of the face, but I feel I am closer.
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5864/copy2.png)
I haven't even begun to think about colors... I will. Also, I had a feeling Helm would have slapped me for dithering so early, I'll get back to it.
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EyeCraft already did a great paintover. I strongly encourage you to look at a reference and then really only use lines (think of a low-poly object) to sculpt your form. Only think about forms in this step, not expression (at your current level at least). I don't remember exactly how Helm normally does his work, but I tried to apply what I remembered from that thread he posted once. If you can't sculpt the form from mind (as you told us), please use references. I recommend "Planes of the Head" by John Asaro, just google him. There should be a pdf of his book somethere in the internet - not sure if it's free or not.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/markusrosse/pixel/nacledit.gif)
Just after you finished these steps begin refining your intended expression. I think Helm explained these later steps very well in his post. But currently that's nothing you should think about, imho. I hope I can encourage you to use references and really sculp the forms. Only with solid basics I think you can come close to a Helm, heh. Keep pushing!
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Copy Helm? Thats going to be quite the mission, I think you should study up on his work more, also pay attention to how he constructs, I think thats where this piece has gone wrong, as well as Helm tends to make certain subject matter for his pieces, wheres the direction for this? The appeal? How am I supposed to feel from this? Lets note that Helm tends to use sexual appeal in his work, make robots, self-portraits and usually very pixelated-feely but 'fleshed out', real life feeling, if that makes any sense. Helm tends to be very strict about his anatomy, tries to stick with ideal proportions though his faces tend to be a bit fleshed out and characterized. If you want to copy his 'style', which is really just years of hard work on his part, I suggest maybe looking into his comic and creating a piece with them in it.
http://asides-bsides.blogspot.com/
Helm has made a bunch of very interesting articles/edits on art and pixelling, I suggest you study them:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=9431
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=8110.msg92989#msg92989
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=9180.msg100816#msg100816
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=9131.msg100705#msg100705
I highly suggesting using reference from not only his work but from life, to pull off what he does takes a very great amount of technical skill, to match this you will need patience and some help from your local friend life.
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That newer version is vastly improved. I think the nose is outlined too harshly currently. That's probably just because it hasn't been cleaned up yet, which is fine. I'm looking forward to see what you can do, keep it up :)
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Well, here's one color attempt. Not happy with it at all, doesn't seem similar to Helms colors in any way. I picked through his posts carefully and tried to distill his color selection method, but even with all the formulas in the world, it doesn't make up for simply being inexperienced at choosing good looking colors. Any crit on where I'm going wrong would be helpful.
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9517/copy2color.png)
Here is the critera I used to select the colors:
- The middle hue(s) are the ones that define the actual color of the object.
- Second darkest color is a highly saturated primary color
- Grays used to transition from one color to another
- Highlights can be neon colors
- Alternation of saturated and desaturated colors going up the ramp
Still lacks Helmitude...
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http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2144.0
Watch Helms vid's, they will probably give you more insight into how he chooses his colours, and how he pulls off his techniques. I recommend the "ruins" video.
http://asides-bsides.blogspot.com/search/label/can%27t%20draw%20women
Most of his women have a similar quality about their faces and I think emulating that could be as useful as emulating his pixeling style.
The way her hair lines up to the face seems wrong to me, like her face is tilted and not the hair. Your light source is inconsistent, particularly on her cheeks.. The neck is not constructed properly. I also feel like from the nose down her face is has been pushed in.
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I think that a straighter nose bridge could make it more Helmish, as well as more angular features generally (Jawline, chin), plus the triangle-face planes he mentioned in the questions thread.
Your colours at the moment are all pretty pastel and quite similar and the cheekbone highlight should be angled to match the head tilt.
Massive undertaking, keep it up ;D
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Thanks for the comments everyone. I have been hacking away at it:
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8466/copy2neckye.png)
Rosse: Thanks for making that gif. Kind of makes the processes clearer, and on my next realistic styled face I will try it out more, and really give it a shot. However, I don't want to just throw an expression in at the end, I was trying to make the whole thing with the expression in mind (angle of the face, eyes closed, etc...), even though the expression is fairly subtle and close to a neutral face. I can sort of visualize and sculpt the forms, but what I was having trouble with was imagining them as polygonal planes. I'm sure working on this skill will tighten up my work and make it less mushy, like my first attempt. Thanks for the tip on the book, I'll check it out.
32: Changed the hair up, hope it falls more naturally down now. The cheek I am alright with, I like it's angularity, but if you still think it's a big issue let me know. I redid the neck, and rotated and shifted around the mouth and chin to get on on the same plane as the rest of the face. Better?
Jeremy: I straightened the nose bridge, and shortened the nose somewhat. Great idea on the angular jawline and chin, I made the jaw a perfect line, I think it helps the piece overall.
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This has been a very weird thread to read (I was on vacation for a week, just got back, I might have posted earlier if I had the chance) for various reasons. Mostly that I didn't realize I had left such a sizable impression (or more unflatteringly, psychological footprint) in you with my various pieces of half-art.
I'm not sure if, on the abstract, trying to emulate my stylistics is a worthy endeavor because a) I'm not very accomplished as an artist and 2) they are based on reflex much more than on theory so you should be honing your *own* theories before mirroring someone else's reflexes, I think. This is to say it'd be very much more worth your time to spend the time you're spending on me by just doing life drawing and going through an actual master's artbook and doing all the examples over and over. Trust me, their approach will pan out better in the end. I still can't draw women or mess up on anatomy often and I'm 25 years old. I know 20 year olds that went to some good art classes and followed master guides/workshops that confidently can draw pretty much anything human-emotion related from memory now without making the same stupid mistakes I keep making.
Having said that, the progress of this thread makes me feel it's not a waste, seeing how you've gotten better at what you should have been doing anyway (: fundamentals of construction and consideration of mood) instead of what is merely surface (: throwing straight lines in there somewhere or just putting an electric neon highlight somewhere). This seems to inform my general notion that whenever someone sits down to draw with a high mission, they'll always arrive to certain considerations and approaches that make their art better (and more distinctive) even if the high mission is 'copy someone I think highly of'. That isn't to say that some missions aren't a better than others as far as skillbuilding goes. The last picture of yours for example, seems very NaCl to me, instead of very Helmy. If you consider that a failure, know that I don't :)
I won't be giving you an edit because that defeats the purpose of the thread, just keep in mind that the highlights on the hair do not obey any theory I've used for shading hair and probably are 'wrong' (as wrong as a stylization can be at least) considering most lightsources. It would be an effect I'd personally underplay. Smaller shine, less bright, more an emotional tool than a rendering artifact.
The facial construction is pleasing, I enjoy her expression also. I think this is the sort of piece that would benefit from having more of a bust instead of 'goes to vague neck then disappears'. This is because her facial emotion right now could be attributed to a lot of things, momentary sadness or something more significant. I think you should use more of her body language and/or props to deliberate a little on why this girl is sad/skeptical. For example here's an old and unfinished piece of mine that if you just crop the head has no emotion whatsoever, but if you consider the whole scene (the woman is about to pierce her own arm on the luminescent wood, blood will flow inside the clear reflective pool below her) the effect is more specific and 'colored' for lack of a better term when discussing something so monochrome.
(http://www.locustleaves.com/wiplake3.png)
Finally, if I wanted to upset your concepts of how I draw I probably could. For example here's an unfinished and unpublished work that doesn't obey any of your observations.
(http://www.locustleaves.com/deathwalks6.png)
What do we do about this? We stop trying to imitate surfaces of some guy and get down to why we want to draw ourselves, probably, right? ;)
Hum, I think I'll finish the piece above now.
P.S. keep in mind that I might appear somewhat negative because I have a lot of problems with receiving complements, even inadvertently. When confronted with that I've had an influence in other people's lives I struggle very much with whether that influence appears to be positive, on my own, not alien, terms. I am still undecided if influencing anyone's art style is a positive one, still. I know that's pretty retarded by a guy that's been giving artistic critique for over 6 years online, but there you go.
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that is probably the best thing I've seen in my entire life
please do finish it helm. ;D
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I find it really interesting how parts of yourself keep appearing in your drawings Helm. The long black hair thing is obvious, but the strong jawline the girl has for example might be subconsciously be referring to yourself. The puzzling fact here would be why? I can see it happening for people with a strong narcissistic personality (such as myself, is that why we never get along?), but I'm pretty damn sure there isn't a narcissistic side of Helm in any way, except maybe a justified proudness here or there.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic psycho-babble
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Sorry for OT:
People subconsciously draw their face because it's the face they've spent the most time studying and/or the one they have to live with.
People consciously draw their face because they learn more about themselves when they try to capture aspects of it, see Klimt and others.
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Interesting thoughts Helm, thanks for sharing.
I felt it was worthwhile to try and emulate you, firstly because it was fun, second because I learned a good amount. Unfortunatly I'm not a robot, so I can't persue the most efficient path all the time, I have to take those human byroads and do stuff I find fun (while keeping in mind the things that will make me better). I agree that life drawing and master studies are important, I've been working on the basics a lot in the last year. I took an art class recently, and was trying to copy that "Wishbone" painting you did a pixel art version of. I've really had to start ripping down my wrong ways of doing things, and starting over to make any progress.
As for the critique on the piece, I'll work on it more when I get home. I've got a good idea what I want to do with the body, but I kept cutting the neck off more and more when I couldn't get it to look right, and I know it still doesn't. The hair... still clueless on creating hair texture. No matter how much I look at successful attempts by others, I still struggle to produce something that doesn't look gelatinous.
Anyway, on the topic of whether or not it is good to influence a persons style, I wouldn't worry too much about it personally. There are bits of style I hope to be influenced by from many artists, you are one of them. If I like someones style then I think it will eventually be apparent in my own work, to different degrees. I'm not trying to revolutionize art, just create the things I think of in a way that is pleasing to me, and if part of that is going to come from your style, then so be it you can't stop me :hehe:
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Hello,
... just create the things I think of in a way that is pleasing to me
:y:
+1, any time i can afford it. I think thats one of the sources of art, too (not the only one though).
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It's clear to me that in the pursuit to emulate Helm, you ended up making your own thing with a Helmish influence and consistently improve your art along the way. I don't know if it was on purpose, but as you chose this specific type of head tilt, nose length and facial features ratio, it holds a remarkable resemblance to Byzantine iconographic art (http://www.carmeldundee.co.uk/images/perpthlp.jpg). Very cool!
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[ot]Helm, there may be 20 year olds who draw better human-related things than you, but I somehow doubt there are many who can find such trippy colours to use in their art like the example given underneath, or deliver it with such technique. Words of another fan :p[/ot]
I think what's missing in your piece for now NaCl is perhaps contrast, and I'm not happy with that dark blue, I'll think about what you could do about it. The nostril seems low, you might need to push it up a few pixels. I'd also suggest some hue variations in the hair.
This being said, it's extremely hard copy a style rather than a piece, because we tend to have a cliché of what our reference draws, and we create a stylistic cliché linked to the artist (at least that's how I feel about it, and how I felt about it when doing my Dex pastiche). However I do think that trying to imitate a style is interesting, even if it doesn't up like we intended it to.