Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Pixel Art Feature Chest => Topic started by: st0ven on August 17, 2009, 04:51:15 am
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LATEST:
(http://www.spriteart.com/junk/nature_tiles5.png)
LATEST NOTES:
Progress from the last WIP - fleshing in more detail and a bit more refinement in shapes and details. Some detail im starting to really enjoy, others still need a lot of work - Tree form needs some sorely needed attention - i want to resist doing really odd looking trees that look out of touch with how they would really grow, but the current foreground trees are looking a bit sad, so ill be paying close attention to them very soon.
Also another robot iteration with a bit more detail in him (dont like the pose, back leg faces too 'forward' and not enough slant towards camera, but not a bad iteration in my opinion. really like the rim lighting , should pop him off nicely against most backgrounds. makes him more interesting and visible.
PREVIOUS ITERATIONS:
http://www.spriteart.com/junk/nature_tiles4.png (http://www.spriteart.com/junk/nature_tiles4.png)
http://www.spriteart.com/junk/nature_tiles3.png (http://www.spriteart.com/junk/nature_tiles3.png)
http://www.spriteart.com/junk/nature_tiles2.png (http://www.spriteart.com/junk/nature_tiles2.png)
Old Stuff in this thread -
Initial character progression concepts.
(http://www.spriteart.com/junk/char_tests2.png)
(http://www.spriteart.com/junk/hero_test2_alt.png)
some of the first concept pieces i had roughed together -
http://www.spriteart.com/junk/indoors1.png (http://www.spriteart.com/junk/indoors1.png)
http://www.spriteart.com/junk/forest_cove.png (http://www.spriteart.com/junk/forest_cove.png)
http://www.spriteart.com/junk/town1.png (http://www.spriteart.com/junk/town1.png)
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The hair of the character looks wrong, may have something with the color, it looks like it can't decide if it's yellow or green.
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The hair of the character looks wrong, may have something with the color, it looks like it can't decide if it's yellow or green.
I can tell that it's blonde. Though I personally prefer the white hair in the third picture.
As for the pieces, the guys pants look to ride up a little much.. (aka his nuts getting squished). Overall the character design is nice, outfit is pretty rad looking. As for being a younger character, it's still an uncomfortable stance. It looks to be putting all his weight on his knees.
As for the innocent look.. I don't know.. not so much... he does have his fist raised and a mechanical arm? or gauntlet?
As for the backgrounds.. I LOVE them as is, possibly a bit more definition or smoothing it out.
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As I said on AIM, the current WIPs are just as great as some finished products I've seen before! Your knowledge of lighting and volume is excellent!
For the character- if you're going for innocent and younger, his current form isn't cutting it. He looks more 'ready to fight' rather than 'ready to adventure,' and he looks in his 20s to me.
There's not much more to say but keep working and going in the direction you're headed. Everything's looking great! :)
p.s. LOVE the globe.
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thanks for the input everyone - i think i was trying to force the character yesterday. i worked it to a better state than it had been but fundamentally i think it needs more sound character design off the get go. which means.... off to the drawing board (and to my horror, eventually posting scans of my drawing?). In general, some self critical notes - character needs to look less like a cyborg ninja - his childish attributes have mostly been lost through iteration, his sense of design has also been mismatched in the same process, and in general i feel like the character features need to appear more 'full' or voluminous to appeal to the viewing perspective. also the rendering should be all value dependent with minimal outlining.
I still have to do some monitor adjustments at home as well. the colors seemed a lot more interesting on my home monitor.
also will be looking forward to fleshing out the natural tileset game comp a bit more to completion.
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BIG TREES! *squee*
Looking forward to seeing this.
The sprite face seems to be at a different vertical perspective to his body, with the way his eyes sit. His left eye seems oddly low.
The other sprite lower in the backgrounds reminds me of you, for some reason - based on a sprite you've done before?
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I love what you're doing posting these WIPs....I feel pixelation seriously lacks in this regard, crit on early wips is a LOT more helpful because it actually can influence the outcome.....sometimes because people pull the "not finished" excuse we tend to look down in WIP topics but I think they can be benefitial, specially when we're discussing ambience and concept art....it ought to give us a better conscience of cohesive art design....
Whatever you do with the hero.....make sure you have an actual 3d personality for him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSyfGm6wXgs&feature=fvst I'm just tired of seeing this crap in videogames :p he's so obviously meant as a empty flamboyant crazy fashion design...I couldnt take this guy seriously in ANY universe. That is not to say your character is as bad as this...he's far more decent but he just sort of looks like a mix of usual game cliches...
Maybe a good start would be looking at some personality classification systems that are practical in real life http://www.9types.com/ so you can give him some realistic motives...
Give him some proper personality traits, dont be shy to think of all his needs including habits..sexuality....a little inner conflict, give him a role and some twists in the story.....and when you chose his clothing PLEASE try to tie it to some tradition or some artistic movement in his enviroment.....
As for the concept bakgrounds....No outline sounds like just my kind of thing! I really like the night mockup you got there, looks gameable and I specially like the way the foreground has a sort of backlight effect on it, makes it pretty eerie...
The forest is looking pretty good...maybe try to play with a more tree covered area? I've always kiked the light effects that happen when there are pools of light filtering trouhg the leaves....it can be quite enthralling.
The last screenshot...well it sorta just screams fake videogame scenario :p it's this weird blend of forest and mountain....do you mean to cut the terrain the way you did? I would try to think of a natural terrain that has actual steep formations like that if that's really what you're going for.
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This is me continuing our aim discussion, sorry I got cut off. The Night scene may not have anything strong going for it compositionally, but the reason I ask the purpose of these is because in an image like that, the background, character, foreground will all be changing CONSTANTLY which means you can't really have a composition in the sense of elements precisely placed in an aesthetically pleasing fashion. However, it does deal with space a lot better than the first two images do. Also it's a shame you don't like the sprite in it that much. I personally like it much better than the first; but I don't think its only a matter of taste. Anatomically, it has less errors, palette wise it's more pleasing, it's pose is not as restrained as the first, and it generally has more character than the first.
When you say " technically" I don't know if you mean pixel tech, or things such as composition. the lighting and palette both work fine in the first two images, and in all the images really. Pixel tech - and I might get rawr'd at by other members for saying this- is not something for you to worry about because I believe you are a master in that regard; and as far as GAME art goes, you are obviously a seasoned professional.
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Camus: Cool - I agree! i thought it would be a bit risky posting stuff so early and not as developed as is more typically shown. didnt want people to construe it as me rushing and posting things they cant really comment on. The main thread focus was on the sprite but i think thats been already pretty well covered - and i dont at all mind conversation on the development of environment style, i find it quite constructive and useful.
As to your comments about the character's design - i laughed at your video and otherwise agree. i think that in doing this comp of the sprite (and there were other ones mid way through that looked rather more dimensional and interesting overall now that i look at them) i think ive discovered what i want him to be, also found out what wasnt working. ultimately the design shouldnt be an amalgam of other 'neat' ideas, but genuinely has to be a functional character - not only should (s)he fit in the environment but into the game play mechanic as well. this current iteration in general does neither. but the good news is i now have more of a concrete vision of what i want him to be.
Ryu pounced on me last night (presumably to scold me) and mentioned being most interested in the same environment concept you were. i told him it was my least favorite of the bunch, because i felt it was the most under developed in terms of what was in the scene, but i certainly felt it was the most 'doable' of the bunch and am going to take the atmospheric ideas with me to when i get to doing them in detail.
I looked at the sky rendition of the last one and also felt that it was the most cookie cutter in a sense and thats pretty much antithesis to what id _like_ to accomplish. light beams shining through gaps in the canopy is something that immediately came to my mind when drawing the tree aspect. this piece is what im considering the closest to what will actually be realized in terms of view angle and construction of imagery. so it will be the one for the time being ill be pouring the most time into. ive already nixed the blue sky as it doesnt mesh with what i had originally envisioned.
(http://www.spriteart.com/junk/nature_tiles2.png)
I hope to keep these up at least for a good bit in the beginning of exploration so that i can get this very helpful feedback.
Ryu: You know that one day i hope to be a 'real' artist too. i wouldnt discount game art as being completely detached from that real art stuff, while their functions are entirely different in practical purposes, the same theory and concepts obviously apply to all aspects of art. I do agree with you with the character - i will post a bunch of variations i was working on when i get home so you can see how over worked it became.
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Sprites 1 and 3 are infinitely better than the one you initially showed. The gal is cute, too :]
Oh and you're not a real artist until you paint a small red or black dot on a 36x72 canvas and then waste $100 dollars in paint covering the rest for textural effect.
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been working on more progress on establishing a cohesive environment mockup. text blurb added to the opening comment.
here is the image in progress so far.
(http://www.spriteart.com/junk/nature_tiles4.png)
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That's very good, reminds me of The Wizard Of Oz.
I think all you need to do is refine it and add a little more depth to the forest (ie add another layer or two of tree/foliage)
Looking forward to more progress!
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Dem lights are NPA. :(
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NPA is a term solely used on Pixeljoint Bengoshia. There's no such thing here, except for a minor rule that if your art is no longer predominately pixel pushed, you move it to low spec.
I love the atmosphere going on St0ven. The character might be lacking a secondary color. Maybe a hue shift in the shading to blue or a red or green light embedded in the robot might do the trick.
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This looks amazing! I've been having many ideas for games running through my mind and the technique you use really inspires me. I like the less tiled look, almost makes the game look more cinematic.
I can't wait to see more.
(And you're getting married? Congrats!)
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NPA is a term solely used on Pixeljoint Bengoshia. There's no such thing here, except for a minor rule that if your art is no longer predominately pixel pushed, you move it to low spec.
Didn't know this, I especially would assume this place would be more pixel-purist than say, Pixeljoint as well. Anyway, you're doing a great job St0ven, these are definitely some damn good pieces of work you got going, wasn't trying to be mean or anything.
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nice choice of colours.
I'm always a bit surprised by people having such large, single color area in a platformer. I must admit that here it brings a very interesting atmosphere. I'm curious to see how it will look like once completed.
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I am feeling the backgrounds. Very painterly. Quite epic. What I’m not feeling is the character. A spiky haired hipster ninja seems out of place in these backgrounds. It leaves me wanting something more…refined?
The robot intrigues me. It feels like he belongs there more than the ninja.
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nice choice of colours.
I'm always a bit surprised by people having such large, single color area in a platformer. I must admit that here it brings a very interesting atmosphere. I'm curious to see how it will look like once completed.
Thanks, and yes i think that to a point it brings a bit of unification, but we dont want to drown out the visibility of each progressive layer of depth by keeping it all one hue. Contrast and saturation will play a natural role of setting those layers apart, but if it looks like its all washed under the same filter of green then the effect will not be as clear (something that i think could currently use adjusting). Will be keeping at it until im quite pleased with it as a whole and the details contained therein.
Dem lights are NPA. :(
Hah yes. very true. I am using the ray effect as a test to see how certain lighting effects could enhance the game. I wouldnt argue that it taints the purity of the pixels displayed in the piece, but if nothing else perhaps might interfere with the ability of observers to critique those regions being hit by the effect.
Im hoping that understanding the context of the intent (game mockups) would allow me not to be called out for at least trying it out. in future versions ill post without the lighting effects, will save it for the 'end'.
I am feeling the backgrounds. Very painterly. Quite epic. What I’m not feeling is the character. A spiky haired hipster ninja seems out of place in these backgrounds. It leaves me wanting something more…refined?
The robot intrigues me. It feels like he belongs there more than the ninja.
Agreed - the focus really shifted regarding the character decision. The character's type was something i was pretty solid on from the get-go but the thought process has certainly changed from 'cyborg enhanced human' to 'humanoid robot'. it creates a really interesting contrast between the types of environments i wish to display and the character you are playing. the final design will definitely have to scream a bit of innocence in his character.
This looks amazing! I've been having many ideas for games running through my mind and the technique you use really inspires me. I like the less tiled look, almost makes the game look more cinematic.
I can't wait to see more.
(And you're getting married? Congrats!)
great - thanks very much and i hope to go into some more step by step progress shot of some more focused areas with a bit more steps saved out in case that might be beneficial for people to see. its something im kindof exploring here myself - its nothing new in terms of how one might approach a painting or a concept art piece, but for me its far different than how i have to approach an environment. but then again i usually have some pretty harsh restrictions to keep in mind, this is a lot more free form and as a natural result the process can change. its very fun to explore regardless.
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Hah yes. very true. I am using the ray effect as a test to see how certain lighting effects could enhance the game. I wouldnt argue that it taints the purity of the pixels displayed in the piece, but if nothing else perhaps might interfere with the ability of observers to critique those regions being hit by the effect.
Im hoping that understanding the context of the intent (game mockups) would allow me not to be called out for at least trying it out. in future versions ill post without the lighting effects, will save it for the 'end'.
Could try using lights without blurred edges. Sharp edges instead, basically, with some anti-aliasing :) Might look good and will definitely support the pixelness of the piece, unlike the current one.
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If the effects are being rendered by the would-be engine, it wouldn't really matter, would it?
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I really like the direction this is heading! The dark ground works very well in conjunction with the faded background to establish a clear foreground.
as far as the rays of light go, I don't know why it's even an issue. As st0ven said, this is a game mockup. Besides, a hard edged light would clash with what I assume to be the target rendering quality. If anyone is really concerned about "purity" in the end product, think of it this way... The tiles and characters will be put through pixel refinement, which means AA. The light, therefore, should also go through AA, and because of it is not a static element drawn directly in the characters or tiles, the AA is attained through its transparency. It is, in a way, AA'd against the background colors via varying levels of opacity.
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So beautiful...
I also love the non tile look, it's so much more organic kinda like how Vanillawares games are.
Also why does the whole thing have to be pixel art? In Megaman ZX they used pixel lights in the forest and I thought it looked really bad and out of place, however the lights in this are much more fluid and more pretty looking.
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definitely go back to the blues you had before. it is a slight change but in my opinion the blues are more powerful or whatever and give it a great, shit-hey-im-an-alien-and-i-just-crash-landed-in-a-forest kind of atmosphere.. like, more earthy. if that makes any sense.. the greener sky also just makes it look like a warzone in the background somewhat, or like a factory kind of deal. i mean if you are going for that kind of look in the game then by all means do what you gotta do, then thats purely stylistic. but in my opinion i like the whole earthy look the blue sky gives. plus the blue sky just blends better with the stark-like nature look of the forest (with the bright highlights and all... which i love!) and once again if you want that kind of look then thats great but i really think the blues fit and give it a real nice, charming atmosphere.
and also, the character change isnt really too good.. i mean yeah it looks great but think about it. you want this to be your main character, right? the one right before that displayed that greatly. could use some slight improvements but his character was clear and golden, leaning towards some kind of charming personality, like an iron giant kind of a thing. this one? to me the character just loses a lot of his charm and almost looks a bit colder than the other. the other was big and clunky... had lots of charm, sort of underdog-like. but this one just doesnt sit well in my mind. maybe its just me and my personal opinion or maybe im just used to the old guy or something but i wouldnt be as happy if i played as the new guy than if i played as the old guy. may i suggest a combination of the old guy and the new guy? like, you could take the new guy and make him a bit bigger, more clumsy looking i guess.. like around the shoulders. i dont know im not so great at character design personally but i think you get the point.. the clumsy kind of look he used to have was just cute and charming i guess.. not cute like cutesy but just.. looks like he had a story i guess.
all in all though you have talent and you dont need me to tell you that but shit i would love to play this game. you know if you are planning on putting an engine together if you hit me up i would love to do some sound design work for this.. i enjoy doing sound shit myself and i also have a great friend whos REALLY interested in doing some ambient sound work, if thats the kind of music youd be looking for. trust me even if youre not ready to think about sound yet keep us in mind because i know i know what im doing and he knows what hes doing more than i do so i think we'd be good for that kind of job :)