Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Opacus on July 13, 2009, 09:53:31 pm
-
I think this has come far enough to start asking for some critique now.
It's a Dreadnought from the Warhammer universe. I don't play the tabletop game, I do love the Dawn of War RTS games though.
Currently enjoying both 1 and 2.
Anyway, this is it:
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/1334/dreadnought11.gif)
It's a pretty ambitious piece, as it is rather large. I hope I can finish this though as I really like it.
There are 15 colours so far. I've used a number of references. The Dreadnought in Dawn of War (You can give it a complete 360 turn in the menu, very handy. You can only twist it horizontaly though)
This image was also a prominent reference.
http://warhammer.hardwired.hu/gallery/wh40k/40k_011.jpg
And furthermore some of the actual models from the games workshop site, and some other drawings.
There are still alot of placeholders. Obviously the surroundings are far from done. And the flash coming from the Dreadnought's gun is also a placeholder.
Some critique would be apreciated.
(I haven't given up on the Jellyfish yet. I just need to come up with some briliant idea for the background.)
-
I think if you made the image a bit bigger and gave him something to interact with it would be way cooler.
Give him some room to breathe and some orcs or something to shoot at.
Otherwise nice so far.
-
Might be a good idea to try pushing the bottom left (our right) side of his torso and leg a bit back into space to let the arm on that side pop forward a little more. Right now I'm immediately drawn to that part of the robot despite it being farther from me than any other part of the robot (this is probably because there is a huge range of values on that one leg). Your reference does a really nice job of leaving the leg as a flat silhouette which works wonderfully.
Anyway, it looks really great so far and that's just a very small idea you might want to play around with.
-
It's a Dreadnought from the Warhammer universe. I don't play the tabletop game, I do love the Dawn of War RTS games though.
you really should play the games, or at least read the backstory dedicated to them. I know that doesn't sound like much of a crit, but hear me out:
your dreadnought right now is COMPLETELY lifeless. The dreadnought in the game is the ultimate piece of reverence on the battlefield. It is a walking reliquary, the sarcophagus of a nearly-destroyed brother in arms. the dreadnought outranks even the chaptermaster in his outfit, and often houses the body of a former chapter-master. they have seen the brutality of chaos at it's utmost, and survived it with their honor and soul intact. they represent the most pious and venerable warriors of the imperium, beyond even the Inquisition and examination of the daemonhunters. this guy, on the other hand, just looks like a kinda dopey suit of armor with a flamethrower on his hand.
-
I love Warhammer 40k, dreadnoughts are pretty damn sweet (have you seen the Witch hunter dreadnought? (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1251783_99110108053_INQPntntEngnmain_445x319.jpg)) something i would add (perhaps later) is shots coming back from the intended target of the dreadnought.
-
penitent engine :P. It's greatly different from a dreadnought in that the incarcerated is placed within not as a means of preserving life, but as a means of hastening death. It is also used by the sisters of battle and therefor not a proper witch hunter unit (although fielded in many witch hunter armies). The sisters of the the adepta soroitas have a relationship to the ordo hereticus (witch hunters) similar to that between the daemon hunters (ordo malleus) and the grey knights space marine chapter.
the backstory, while incredibly nerdy, is an absolute necessity in making striking/accurate depictions of the characters involved.
-
It's a Dreadnought from the Warhammer universe. I don't play the tabletop game, I do love the Dawn of War RTS games though.
you really should play the games, or at least read the backstory dedicated to them. I know that doesn't sound like much of a crit, but hear me out:
your dreadnought right now is COMPLETELY lifeless. The dreadnought in the game is the ultimate piece of reverence on the battlefield. It is a walking reliquary, the sarcophagus of a nearly-destroyed brother in arms. the dreadnought outranks even the chaptermaster in his outfit, and often houses the body of a former chapter-master. they have seen the brutality of chaos at it's utmost, and survived it with their honor and soul intact. they represent the most pious and venerable warriors of the imperium, beyond even the Inquisition and examination of the daemonhunters. this guy, on the other hand, just looks like a kinda dopey suit of armor with a flamethrower on his hand.
I DO know the backstories Nd. And I do know that the Dreadnought is a walking sarcophagus that houses a very important fallen champion that has been revived so it may serve the empire once again.
However, as far as I know, Dreadnoughts just ARE very lifeless. They talk slowly and heavily. They walk slowly. They turn slowly. And the only thing they can really do is wreak havoc on the battlefield. They've basicly just become robots.
The one in my drawing is on a distance from the enemy, shooting them with his chaingun, and maybe he's slowly closing in to grab some orcs and crush some bones. I really wouldn't know how to add more life to a wallking sarcophagus. I don't really understand what you'd want me to do with him.
Ptoing; yeah that might be a good idea. I'll probably move him back a bit. Give hime some orcs to shoot. Probably more than one. And maybe a few more on the background.
And Ian: I'll give that some thought.
Here's the most recent one:
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6849/dreadnought15.gif)
EDIT: Here's a darker one. Which do you prefer?
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6291/dreadnought16.gif)
I gave him a dead orc in his claws for more 'interaction'. And of course to make him seem a bit more menacing.
-
That's more relic's take on them and it's rather boring as I think unfortunately you're finding.
more interesting is going to the actual source, this website compiled primarily from old rules books, codices and other official material : http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Dreadnought (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Dreadnought). Most importantly the lines about being quick and agile and some having a memory spanning even before the Heresy (i.e. vaster even than most librarians, who can only reach as far back as their living brethren, and not at all "just a robot"). I mean, certain dreadnoughts can make 4 close combat attacks in the same time it takes a normal warrior to swing his sword once! That's not slow.
If you're devoted to the relic-style dull dreadnought though, I suggest taking a much more interesting view of things (literally, it's the camera i'm talking about). A space marine in full armor + artificer's skeleton is about 9 feet tall, a straight-standing orc boy about 10-11 (though they always slouch), a dreadnought about 18-20 (the equivalent of looking out a two-story window). You're looking at him straight-on, which is greatly diminishing his presence. That orc looks like a teddy-bear, when even a dead one should be horrifyingly large. The orc is also much too small compared to the dreadnought. Still, he doesn't really need a sweeping shot to make things more interesting, he needs a dynamic shot which shows his size and strength.
for instance:
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/645/dreanought.jpg)
This has very close action, doesn't really show off the dreadnought's agility,yet it's far more dynamic. Oh, and Ultramarines 2nd Company pwns mad Blood Raven noobs.
-
Haha. I do have a few Space Marines, they're Dark Templars though. (I'm not really aiming at any chapter with this one though. Which explains the lack of chapter marks)
Though I get your point Nd, I'm not about to scrap the entire piece and start completely anew. I do honestly like it this way.
I can understand you would want him to look more dynamic. But I like the slow relic Dreadnought. The slow aproach, his stomping, it makes him all the more badass.
You really get the idea there's a building walking towards you. Which is pretty intimidating. Now I do see where a very fast version of a Dreadnought would be more deadly and more efficient.
But I like him the slow way. I do agree that a different angle might benefit the piece. (A lower view for example could help empathise that big, bulky posture of his) But it's come too far to change that. I just don't think it's worth scrapping the entire thing for.
You say an Orc is about 10 feet, and a Dreadnought 20. When I picture the held orc upright he does seem that tall to me.
Maybe it's his posture that's making him look small. I'll work on that.
Here's a small update with the orc atleast having a less teddybear face.
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3153/dreadnought17.gif)
-
Haha. I do have a few Space Marines, they're Dark Templars though. (I'm not really aiming at any chapter with this one though. Which explains the lack of chapter marks)
I just assumed blood ravens because of the relic references and the fact that he's clearly not blood angels.
Though I get your point Nd, I'm not about to scrap the entire piece and start completely anew. I do honestly like it this way.
Fair enough. I was thinking this piece was still very much in the sketching phase of things. I don't know how much it serves to plow ahead on a piece with a static composition but you're obviously free to.
You say an Orc is about 10 feet, and a Dreadnought 20. When I picture the held orc upright he does seem that tall to me.
Maybe it's his posture that's making him look small. I'll work on that.
Datz coz Rellack tinks da boyz iz puny, like deyz jus sum kinda wimpy green humies wit ugly pantz. (Is an avid orc player. my main problem with the DoW games is how wrong they got the orcs in terms of style, size, and gameplay. Or maybe not wrong, since the DoW orcs are interesting...but they aren't the real 40k space orks :P).
-
Though technically it is in a sketching phase, I've spent more than 5 hours on it so far. It took forever to get that Dreadnought exactly right.
Thanks for your imput though man :). Much apreciated. I'll try to think a bit ore of the viewpoint and so in my next piece.
I really like the Dawn of War games. Both of them. They might not catch all the races perfectly. (Though I wouldn't know that) But I do very much enjoy them.
And most of all, it's SO MUCH CHEAPER than the tabletop games. I mean, 35 euros for a 10cm Dreadnought? That's terrible!
-
Caution! Noob crit approaching!
Okay, enough tacky. I'm going to try to crit this as an outside perspective having no influence of the genre of 40k at all. Having not played or cared any at all about the games whatsoever. I'm going to try to crit the piece as it is. Not by what lore says it should be ;).
Okay, first off. Take a second look at what ndchristie's saying. Basically your piece seems a bit static, non active. I'm not saying you should scrap the whole thing, but at least change the perspective maybe a little bit. Then you could easily move the arm on the right side facing out to grab that orc enemy. It shouldn't be too difficult (riiight?). Also, this bothered me in the first piece you showed. The bottom leg, and the background cause my eye to look at everything else but the mech, which is what I'm supposed to be looking at. If I had this level of expertise, I'd probably change the perspective of the background to match the one in the left foot, or the left armor shoulder pad. Because right now I'm being dragged all over the place forcing myself trying to concentrate on the mech. This could also be fixed if you would increase the size and straighten out that right arm a little. Not only would it give the mech itself more attention, but it would put my view back in the center on the mech itself. I also think that it's a little bit dull. You helped it alot by adding the lighting from the flame thrower in some places, but that only helps a little bit. Another thing that bothers me is the smoke clouds. They look more like background art rather then coming from the heat stack flames. (And I'd be a bit more mangled if something that size grabbed me!)
Anyway, that's all I've observed. I think this is going to look very cool, regardless of what your going to do.
Keep it up!
Some quick refs I found online. One's a deviant piece.
http://www.danscottart.com/Images/Dreadnought2.jpg
http://warhammer.hardwired.hu/gallery/wh40k/40k_011.jpg
http://www.rushputin.com/gallery/d/5799-1/Dark+Angels+Venerable+Dreadnought+2.jpg
-
(quick, slightly useless - the pre-heresy dreadnought model is a slightly different story, being far more accomplished mechanically and more flexible. most pre-heresy armies actually count the dreadnought as a proper vehicle, moving 12 inches in a turn instead of 6)
-
Hmm, never mind me then.
"I'm going to try to crit this as an outside perspective having no influence of the genre of 40k at all. Having not played or cared any at all about the games whatsoever. I'm going to try to crit the piece as it is. Not by what lore says it should be"
Also
"Haha. I do have a few Space Marines, they're Dark Templars though. (I'm not really aiming at any chapter with this one though. Which explains the lack of chapter marks)"
I was just more or less trying to give a different viewpoint. The poses that I see from these is more or less the ones your trying to suggest. It would also suggest that oppacus's comment was saying that he didn't care about build or manueverability either.
These better?
Space marine
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l69/ABLaz3d/2b.jpg
Another one
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s299/patches_menchi/warhammer-blue-gold.jpg?t=1247622812
Probably not. My bad. Nvm me then.
-
the problem is that a pre-heresy dreadnought is a completely different machine in shape and mobility. it was developed 9000 years earlier and the technologies were lost. standard game dreadnoughts are not nearly as mobile or 'comfortable' for the entombed. Those other two, Marneus Calgar and a more generic captain (the new ones), are not dreadnoughts, they are regular warriors in power suits (about 9 or 10 feet tall, half the size of the dreadnought, with more or less the full mobility of an unarmored human.) It's not that they aren't cool, but they aren't really suitable references for a post-heresy dreadnought. Since Opacus spent 5 hours detailing every inch of his guy here, I would actually think that he cares very much about the build.
http://www.daboyzgt.com/images/gallery2/fulls/blood-angels.jpg
ok, that's enough geeking without much critiquing.
-
I do care about the build yes, and I'm happy with how he looks.
Anyway, I'll be in Spain the next week so don't expect any updates for a while. Don't let that stop you from giving critique though. I'll review it all when I get back and update accordingly.
-
Looking swisherly. A brief crittish: the exhaust pipes bug me, I think they detract from the gunfire's impact with too much smoke stack output in the back. Readability of the 4-pronged "hand" doesn't stand, suffering proper visibility; had to refer to the painterly ref pic (which is grand) in order to understand. Your avatar's lighting shows significant flare, convert your scene's light scheme to something more similar, increase the nightmare of your depicted warfare. Triple dog dare.