Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: kr_default on February 18, 2006, 09:53:50 am
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Hi everyone, this is my first post here and i deicided to post my current W.I.P and a old piece of work called CHOMP so you can see my shading style ;D
Nova the Dark Star Blade - WIP:
(http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/9158/starblade6zi.png)
CHOMP:
(http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3877/chomp0zg.png)
Dark Cyjelly:
(http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/4109/darkcyjelly5ep.png)
Waterball:
(http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/9774/waterball1ti.png)
Moon Light
(http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4125/moonlight4av.png)
C&C Appreciated and thanks
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Crap, tbh. Doesn't appear to have had any effort put into it. Shading looks like jpeg corruption.
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Crap, tbh. Doesn't appear to have had any effort put into it. Shading looks like jpeg corruption.
[sarcastic]oh, ok this helps sooooooooooooo much im sure all the helpful pixel facts will make me make a really good pixel[sarcastic]
what the hell, i am really knew to pixeling and your practically saying your work is crap now leave this forum now, well i dont give a crap im proud of my work and your a crap head
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Easy, KR. Calm down.
At this point, the best thing for you to do is to practice for a good while. We have a thread here that contains numerous links to tutorials, pixel artist websites, and a bunch of other stuff.
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=222.0
Go there, and look through the tutorial sites for tips and stuff. Look through the artist websites and save what you like(do this with video game art as well). Next step is to practice. Practice a lot.
I recommend you take a look at the forum at GMpixel.com
http://gmpixel.com/
I think you'll find the environment at GMpixel more comfortable.
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thanks ive been to gmpixel before i didnt like it it was to unactive and ive posted there and got no feedback on my work, i like it here, indigo is my fav pixeler because i know him from the pixel forums, anyway im looking through this mspaint tutorial that that link linked to, but DrDerekDoctors wasnt helpful he just said my work was crap and thats about it, thanks for the links
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Well, it does look like you didn't put much thought into these. They're an assortment of shapes that are pillowshaded and/or noisy in texture. I noticed it in the lineart exchange thread as well when you started coloring Flaber's moose. The random assortment doesn't give texture, it looks like compression, and it uses up a lot of colors. Also, your colors aren't very interesting. Mainly consisting of desaturated brownish hues. It's just an unappealing palette.
My suggestion is the same as crab2selout's, look at pixel art and actually try to understand why pixels are placed the way they are.
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i'll post some of my different work in the first post
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argh... please dont link your images.. its just annoying when we click the images to enlarge them it opens a link everytime..
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Your shading style doesn't do anything for me and I don't even know where to start with giving helpful critique... I guess leave pixel art and go back to traditional training for some time? Starting from the ground up, pencil studies of simple volumes, light studes... I'm not sure.
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I like the moon light one. Everything has a problem and a solution. Problems are:
*Boring colors - Solution : Vary the hues by this rule. Make the highlights appear yellowish. Make the shadows appear blueish. If you look at Ryu's shadows in SF, his shadows are blue. That's what 99% of the video game graphics use their shadows. It also breaks up the monotony and give you the video game style appearence you need to make it appear. - Video Game Style coloring
*Lack of Contrast- Solution: Make highlights bright and shadows very dark. That'll help improve the overall shading.
*Too much dark outline- Solution: Don't outline everything in black. It makes it look more like a cg lineart that has been shaded. You might want to use selout or color outlines.
That wraps it up, I hope you get the idea for making some pixel art.
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Crap, tbh. Doesn't appear to have had any effort put into it. Shading looks like jpeg corruption.
[sarcastic]oh, ok this helps sooooooooooooo much im sure all the helpful pixel facts will make me make a really good pixel[sarcastic]
what the hell, i am really knew to pixeling and your practically saying your work is crap now leave this forum now, well i dont give a crap im proud of my work and your a crap head
Well I'm sorry, but it really appears that I put more time into my reply than you did into your pixels, tbh. They're incredibly simple looking. I think Helm's advice is very germane - you need to practice a lot so that you produce something which isn't horribly broken in every conceivable way and which can actually be improved through advice. Quite frankly the images you posted are awful and there's very little which could improve them outside of the delete key. It's not like there isn't a HUGE amount of really good artwork on this forum for you to study, and there are links to many, many tutorials too. I'm not saying that people have to post good artwork to get a useful comment out of me, but at least try...
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Look at other peoples pixel art on this forum, try to copy what they did. Learn from their works.
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I did an edit of Chomp, hope you don't mind. I'm no expert on any of these fields i'm about to talk, but over the time i've learned the basics, and i'll resume them so it may be able to help you.
Color choice: kept some of you colors (the "mid-tones", middle colors between the lightest and the darkest shades) and tweaked others, by changing hues, saturations and lightness until i achieved a nice contrast. Your original colors where too bleak and close to each other (little variation in hue/sat./lightness between them), one of the most usual mistakes for beginners.
Another important thing to keep in mind is to use a limited amount of colors. This was done in the past for lack of memory reasons in computer games, but that isn't the case nowadays. Still, using a limited palette does help you keep a more uniform look. If you need to smooth out some part of the drawing, just pick a color between those basic ones you have. This is usually done not only in pixel art (which normally is small), but also by digital artists when doing larger pieces. They pick a few basic colors, apply them on an initial rough "shaping" of the piece, and mix them together to blend the shapes where needed.
Volume definition: the shading didn't quite convey three-dimensional shape for the character, it looked like a carboard cutout blob. Shading is one of the most important aspects, if not the most important, in defining the look of the character, giving it depth. I changed the placement of the light source so that i could convey better the shape of it, as an example. You placed the light source in front of it, which is ok but can lead to poor shading (pillow-shading) if not done corrrectly. Even in cartoon and anime style drawings, shading makes all the difference.
Texture: i believe that your inital shading attempt was trying to give texture to the head and "teeth" of the character. But it was chaotic and desorganized, and that doesn't work. It must follow some sort of order for the viewer to interpret it as something and not random noise, as some people pointed out.
Ok, here's a brief explanation of what i changed:
1. Fixed some of the outlines to look more clean (less "jaggy"), and changed their color to a darker shade of the interior color. Change the left corner of the teeth to give it a more round look, and the colors, removed some and altered others. Different shading.
2. Changed the textures. Tried giving a glossy, "metally" look to the teeth, and a furry look to the surface (using only 3 colors for each, would look better with another color but it was just for the example).
3. Added Anti-aliasing and Selective Outlining (look at tutorials for explanations).
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f291/TurboLento/chomp0zg-turboedit.png)
9 colors + background transparency color.
All of these things are explained on the tutorials, or on critiques from other works. I suggest you lurk a bit around here, read critiques to other works, and incorporate those in your works.
P.S.: wow, that's a lot of text up there.
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Wow, Turbo, that's a HUGE improvement from what it started off as, nicely done. Although I still think that the zig-zags are quite.... horrible. They look like random lines just drawn inbetween two other lines.
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Turbo, you are the BEST ;D you have helped me so much, i will post what i made from your help over the weekend, THANKYOU and VERY NICE EDIT!!! THANKS A BUNCH!!!!!
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If you ask me, this "You didn't put any effort into this" is a cop-out. Clearly he did put some effort into them, or he wouldn't have completed 4 pieces, each of which look like something, fundamentally. It's true they look simplistic and childish, but that just means he doesn't know how to make things look as they should. They are expressive and creative in nature.
How can you refine something until you know how it's supposed to look and why? Sit a random person down in front of an advanced math problem with no guidance and you'll be lucky if they write anything at all down after 10 minutes of frustration. That doesn't mean they didn't try. Why do people expect newbies to art to be any different?
And that seems to be the main problem... you can't really do pixel art until you know art in general. The suggestion to hit the books and tutorials is a good one, but where to start? First, read up on art theory. A good book is "drawing on the right side of the brain." It talks about how you should learn to draw "what you see" rather than simplistic symbols you've come to associate with what you are trying to draw. Also, look at tutorials concerning color choice, and definetly shading/highlighting tutorials. As for what to practice... start by drawing, coloring, and shading basic shapes such as a sphere, cone, etc. that can easily be compared to references and reality. Once you can do that easily, those skills will transfer over to the more complicated things like your jellyfish's head.
Try these two links for starters. . .
http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/tutorials/light01.htm
http://itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm
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It's not a copout, it's an honest appraisal that takes a measure of balls to dispense, and I respect that. Once you start making a case for defense of crappy art, you trivialize good art and hamstring anyone whose feelings you're not trying to hurt.
That's not to say that helping someone that's absolutely, totally fresh isn't below any of us, and most of you stepped up to the task. Backpats for everyone *pat pat*
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Please, it takes no balls to diss a newbie over the anonymity of the internet.
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Crap, tbh. Doesn't appear to have had any effort put into it. Shading looks like jpeg corruption.
I have to agree that this comment was way too harsh. The statement that he didn't put any effort into his pieces is.. subjective. And clearly, you did not put much effort to posting with rule (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/pixipedia/index.php?title=Pixelopolis_Rules) #1 in your mind: Don't be an ass! You just couldn't hold it in, could you? I'm sure your last comment can be seen as helpful, but there are a million and one ways to put it, without hurting ones feelings.
In general I'm not really a newb-protector, but what really got on my nerves is that you didn't apologize, didn't better your attitude. You actually tried to -defend- your assholeness. Immature, tbh.
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Well fair enough, if that's how you see it then there's no way I'll talk you around to my way of thinking. I stated things as I saw them, I gain no pleasure in saying bad things to newbies. I just honestly believe that the entry level to this community is somewhat higher than was being displayed, and that it also appeared to be the work of somebody who had not looked at anyone elses work before posting theirs in an effort to do an even halfway competant job of it.
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Allow me to tell you a short story. In my freshman year of highschool, I was enrolled into an advanced first-year Spanish class. Everyone was asked to learn SOME spanish over the summer. On the first day of class, we were asked to share what we'd learned. One of the students stood up and said, "Hola. I like burritos." With all of the literature available, that's what he opted to share. Perhaps what the student should have said was, "I haven't studied much, and unfortunately, that's all I was able to teach myself. Can you recommend some learning tools/literature?" I'm sure he'd have been less shunned.
PS: I don't think anyone was calling anyone else a craphead.
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I have to admit that I was a bit off: you -did- better your attitude, now I read your second post a few more times. I'm sorry for that...
But you explained your reason, although that doesn't make it a valid excuse. I mean, many posts in this forum could anger ones artpassionate-heart, but what I suggest is: just press the back button instead of reply. And when you decide to reply, try to be helpful in the spirit of the community. If you end up being offensive, it wouldn't be much different from you, murdering a baby for pooping in his pants. Err.. - you're violating the rules against someone who is actually not fully in control of his actions.
Bad example.. Bad example..
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*NOW* I realise why I don't get babysitting gigs any more...
I'm of the belief that before you post to a forum you should lurk for a goodly while first (obviously I don't practice what I preach but I've yet to make a complete arse of myself... Come close, though.) and I think if you lurk here you're going to see that the average standard of beginner art isn't that bad at all. There are plenty of communities, however, which are very much tailored towards the absolute beginner.
You're right that I was too snappy, however, and for that I apologise to kr_default, but I think that had kr_d done a little more research they probably could have found a community which was far more receptive to their level of ability. Maybe I should have just pointed them there instead.
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Please, it takes no balls to diss(1) a newbie(2) over the anonymity of the internet(3).
1. "It's crap", and "you clearly put no effort into this", while nobody wants to hear them, are not insults. Effort shows, even if it's misdirected effort. Furthermore, the comment is directed at the art, not the artist. People who don't know the difference should learn it early, and people who do know the difference and get offended anyway are way out of line.
2. Everyone, not just newbies, halfasses or makes crappy art at various points, and not calling somebody on it just reinforces their bad habits. Harshness, if nothing else, causes someone to stop, rewind, and re-evaluate their art.
3. In my experience live critiques are way more harsh. Anonymity is a non-factor.
I really don't want to drag this thread out, so I'll just leave it at that and invite anyone who wants to discuss this further to do so via pm :P