Critique => 2D & 3D => Topic started by: ptoing on June 14, 2009, 09:37:34 pm

Title: Robot wip
Post by: ptoing on June 14, 2009, 09:37:34 pm
Getting into 3D again. Render setup at bottom by fra (http://astrofra.com).

So far only head and torso.

Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: astrofra on June 15, 2009, 03:56:08 pm
I love how it looks like a cyclops !
The huge antenae on top of its head has something of a mis-conception, which makes it even more interesting, like a flawed design !
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: Jakten on June 15, 2009, 03:57:59 pm
This is looking pretty slick so far!

At first glace I had a bit of trouble deciphering the head but I think once its coloured there will be no problem at all.

Are you trying to keep it under a certain amount of tris?

Can't wait to see this fleshed out a little more!
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: ptoing on June 15, 2009, 09:59:29 pm
Nah, not going for a specific poly count, atm he is around 1000something tris I think.
A bit more tweaking and then I will try to texture.

Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: ptoing on June 16, 2009, 08:51:26 pm
UV is pretty much done apart from bits which will be mirrored.

Started to texture. FUN! \o/
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: huZba on June 17, 2009, 11:17:41 am
I think you should have all the UV-maps in the same scale so that there's no resolution differences in different parts of the robot.
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: ptoing on June 17, 2009, 11:58:44 am
I could have done that, but I did not do it out of choice. If you have no other crits I am happy :P

Current state.

Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: Arne on June 17, 2009, 06:20:11 pm
While edge highlighting is fine, it can also be interesting to sometimes tone it down or up, and not keep it equal everywhere. I think there's a danger in accentuating the edges too much. This isn't necessarily done with edge highlights alone, it can also be done by adding details which conform too much to the quad/poly. Some texture artists just add an embossed bevel inside every quad to make 'techy panel stuff'.

I think textures should make it seem like there's more geometry, or in some cases, by skipping an edge you can make things seem smoothly curved. Maybe the chest of this thing could benefit from that.

If you have the Q3A textures, it could be interesting to look at TankJr. It does do the inset quad aligned detail here and there though. Crash's helmet has some interesting shadow gradients going on rather than just edge highlights. My favorite texture is probably Major's. On her single player skin you can see the edge highlights for the worn metal, but on her team skins there's a nice smoothness going on.
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: ptoing on June 17, 2009, 08:06:47 pm
I know totally what you mean, tho the problem here is that the model is too boxy. You can only make a cube look like a sphere so much.
On things like the sides of the legs and arms there need not be edgehighlights/wear, but then again on the sides it would look odd if there was not.

The Quake 3 models have MUCH flatter angles on most things, so making something look smooth is not that hard. Here it is pretty much impossible, because once you rotate to certain areas stuff looks broken as hell.

If you want I can give you the obj file once i am done, and you can have a shot at texturing it and try to hide the corners.
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: Arne on June 17, 2009, 08:47:36 pm
I'm rather lousy at texturing because it's too indirect and not wysiwyg.... although I guess texturing programs is a bit better nowardays.

The Q3A meshes are not all that I hear. I do know that they put a lot of polies around the... rounded areas of some models though.

There are other things you can do than making things seem round. You can add little gaps from armour plating which are placed on the edge or not. Like, on the shoulder front, there's a Gundam'ish beveled armour plate.


So you can place a 'fake' subtractive (dark) edge with greebles where the ..o....o.. is, making it look like perhaps it's geometry. It also breaks up the solid block feel with mostly additive edges.

The chest plate could perhaps continue with a subtractive edge into the polygons, making it look like it's an armour plate which has been slapped on and there's some gaps in the model (again, to break solidity).
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: ptoing on June 17, 2009, 09:12:20 pm
Ah I think I know what you mean, I did that in some places a bit.

About the Q3A models not being all that, yes that is possible, but even the Quake 1 dude only has 4 sided legs and such (like my robot here) but unlike with my robot the front of the limbs when pointed down is an edge and not a face, which makes a big difference for the silhouette.


Rough test. Did you think something in this direction?
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: madPXL on June 17, 2009, 09:47:51 pm
Really nice model ptoing but...the texture...or maybe I should say the uv mapping... :'(

I think that you should work with rectangular/square uv as some of mine:
(http://madpxl.com/other/banjo_kazooie.png) (http://madpxl.com/other/banjo_tex.png)

When I'm looking at your robot, some pixels look not great (when you have black line for example)
and you could have more pixels to use if you made some optimisations :)

also it takes more time too...
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: Gil on June 17, 2009, 10:12:29 pm
The way Ptoing does it, he can add lots of creases and other techno detail, without it being warped. Only square parts is good for simple models requiring low texture detail with lots of gradients.
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: Arne on June 17, 2009, 10:38:38 pm
In this case you have something rather pointy so omitting edges and going lost/smooth is harder. There's not a lot of structure to the design either (eg symmetry and square Gundam'ish plates). The shoulder pad front doesn't look rectangular and there's a lot of triangles and haphazard angles going on. Not a lot of figurative shapes, so you'll end up doing nonsense vents, rivets and panel lines just to fill the immediate superficial... surface with something. Some parts looks like rather lazy quad... face extrusion or whatever it's called.

This is kind of nonsense, I just wanted to show what I meant about... fake subtractive edges not placed on actual edges. You could throw in some chipped of yellow paint... revealing silver metal or something I guess... but it'll have to be real subtle or on just some spot because it gets old real quick.
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: Arne on June 17, 2009, 11:24:54 pm
E.g. break the edges sometimes, to make the geometry less blatant. If you have more complex geometry you can do more clever stuff than what I'm doing here. When you have softer edges you can start doing other things of course, like blending them together with gradients. In the image posted by someone above, no edge highlights are needed because there's contrast with the baked in shading anyways. Gradients on flat faces can make things seem buckled and curved (unless it's baked in ambient shadows for armpits and such) so sometimes it's better to just go flat if the readability of the face angle is important.


I'm probably being a bit to rectangular here, the panel lines could very well fight the blockyness instead (with angles and curves). The crux is to be able to do that while also following up on the form of the geometry.

On the Megaman Legends Reaverbots they did 45 degree bevels on very square stuff just with a baked in lightsource. See body and head of the Arukoitan. It's a little harsh when the bevels try to soften a 90 degree angle though, but this was a PS1 game. What I mean is that in some cases it may look nice to add geometry just with baked in shading/light.

They used a pretty flat style and softened edges rather than highlighting them. See the circumference of the 'Horokko'.

The Kurobun has no edges around the legs

Edit: I'm not really critiquing Ptiong here, these are just things I've been thinking about and wanted to write down. If you look at the SupCom UEF (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/supremecommanderforgedalliance/news.html?sid=6178725&mode=all&cpage=1) stuff, they're doing a lot of beveled boxes inside the polygons, like on my red cube.

Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: ptoing on June 20, 2009, 03:10:36 am
Cheers everyone, good stuff to consider. Esp Arne  :y:


Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: blumunkee on June 20, 2009, 06:03:58 pm
I like the color scheme.

The worn metal edges need to be more subtle. The center chest extrusion is especially garish.

Based on the UVs, it looks like you could add more asymmetry into the head and torso.
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: ptoing on June 20, 2009, 06:41:49 pm
I like the color scheme.

The worn metal edges need to be more subtle. The center chest extrusion is especially garish.
I know, it is so far only test and on a seperate layer \o/

Based on the UVs, it looks like you could add more asymmetry into the head and torso.
I know too. Once everything is textured I will do more stuff like I did with the shoulderpolygon where the skulls are. Enough little black spaces to fill up :)
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: Scribblette on June 22, 2009, 12:57:34 am
Just wanted to say, I think this is beautiful. :)

The texturing on the shoulders makes me think of the ships in Homeworld - I loved them.
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: Jakten on June 23, 2009, 02:23:03 am
I'm loving this, it looks so good. The colours are fantastic. Also I like what you've done to break up some of the symmetry, it's something I'll have to keep in mind.

I really love the texture of this and I'm pressed for crits. Maybe the area beneath his head could be a bit darker and might make the head and chest area pop a bit nicer. Also you put a highlighted edge in the orange area near his upper chest that cuts into the middle of the face. I think it would look better without it unless one of the sides were either lighter or darker.

I was just looking at the full untextured model and was curious what was going on with his hands? Are they going to be translucent crystal-type stuff?

hope this helps a bit  ;D
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: Dusty on June 23, 2009, 04:28:18 am
Looks very Megaman Legendish. I like.

I don't know much to say, but I think it's a bit hard to read the volume and shape, because of everything that's going on -- the edges are not very clear, even with highlights. This might be stretching it though, just so I don't do empty ass-patting.
Title: Re: Robot wip
Post by: astrofra on June 27, 2009, 09:18:28 pm
Hey! Gorgeous ! I can't tell More that what's been told here!
I really dig the yellow/green scheme, and a bonus thanks to Arne for sharing his relevant observations ...