Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Dr D on December 03, 2008, 04:40:19 am
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Hey everyone! ;D
I'd just like to start off by saying I'm new here, this is my first post, although I've been lurking for the last few days and studying/researching a lot.
I've recently became involved in a project which has no sprite artist, so I volunteered myself to attempt at it, since nobody on the rest of the team would/is able to. I as well am eager to improve my skill and get better at pixel art.
And the reason I made that statement above was because I have little to no artistic ability, at least compared to just about everyone else here.
I'd also like to say, I simply love this forum and it's members, and the helpfulness of everyone here, you guys even critique what seems like the best-of-the-best pieces, and I love that.
This is one of my first, although not exactly my first time working with pixels. I, before, have created a few items for another 2D RPG, whos name I won't mention, because I don't believe I'm allowed.. Anyways, if I am, or not, I'll just save us all the trouble. (But if you really would like to know about my current project or the one I've worked on before.. send me a PM!)
This is my first time working with tiles, or any kind of landscape art.
Anyways, to the point, I'm going to be creating a majority of the tiles, if not all of them. However I won't be doing sprites.. Thank goodness.
They will be in a 3/4 view.. Or top-down view, I don't know which term is correct to describe the view, but it's the same as most 2D grid-based RPG's such as Pokemon, or Seiken Densetsu 3.
I came here to receive some help and advice on how to proceed in creating tiles, as well as utilizing the advice I get to better my skills.
I didn't want to dive in without any knowledge, only to have to protract all of my work later. :-X
Here is a simple grass tile I came up with, as the first tile, and marking the beginning of the creation of the tileset. Also, the same tile, tessellated 3x in a 48x48 square, the size of the tile, as well as future tiles, is 16x16.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/smallgrass.jpg) -> (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/grasssquare1.jpg)
I don't think it's TOO bad, but it can certainly use improvement, right? And the color palette isn't something I'm worrying too much about right now either, I can always change it in the future.
I have been working on it rigorously, creating many different versions of it, however, my main problem is breaking the grid, without having strands of grass too cluttered, I realize I can fix this problem by creating multiple tiles, however I simply want to perfect this one tile as of now.. It can't be impossible, can it?
Here is the most recent fix I have attempted.. But as you can tell it's not much better than the original, if at all, and demonstrates the problems I stated above.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/smallgrassclutter.jpg) -> (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/grassclutter.jpg)
Other things I'd like to note.. I am foreseeing that our game will be more realistic rather than vibrant and cartoony, which is why I'm trying to use darker, more 'earthy' colors, as someone pointed out somewhere else on this forum.
Seiken Densetsu 3 is a big inspiration, by the way..
And I can already see that my weaknesses will be rocky surfaces, such as cliffs, and water. The amount of detail that will most likely need to go into those tiles are something that I believe myself incapable of doing. Perhaps I just lack a very vivid imagination.
I'm trying to stay away from that solid-color coloring stuff, like, for example, done in The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. And I'm trying to include more detail. It's a longer and harder practice for an inexperienced newbie like myself, however I think it will pay off in the long run.
Again, I really would like some C&C although I don't have much to show at this point. I am all for self-betterment as well, although it may not be so apparent, I try hard, but.. I really struggle. Most of the time I have no idea how to even start a piece and most tutorials don't usually seem to help much, although a few have.
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At first glance it looks like grass but after looking at it a bit it looks like murky water, this is due to the amount of colours, You don't really need them all, try cutting it down to 2 or 3. it tiles well at the edges but the reason your still seeing the grid is the three strands in the center of the tile, i'd suggest either making the tile larger (if you can) or working the grass strands so they 'flow' in one direction.
And welcome ;D
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Actually your grasstile looks fine. The first one looks better to me, its a bit less messy.
Personally I simply draw more tiles of the same type to eleminating the grid.
So in my opinion you should rather drawing more tiles. just make sure all tile edges fit each other.
I also dont get why someone would waste time in optimizing one tile, when he can create more tiles in the same timeframe.
Thats nothing against you or anything, you probably read that famous grasstile tutorial(?), Its just these grasstile topics pops up
here from time to time.
Also yeah, as 32 mentioned there a way to many colors for a simply grasstile, didnīt count but must be atleast 8+ colors.
Cut them down to 4 maybe 5(for the highlights), its a way less time consuming.
Create a large tileset(300+) and you see what I mean. ;)
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Haha, actually there are only 4 colors, but I guess I should cut them down to 3? I really like the 'shine' effect on the blades though, but perhaps I can retain that if I take out the extra highlight. I've also been working on a stone path tile, but it looks like crap. I'll try revising it a bit more before I post it here.
I am/was focusing more on fixing these parts:
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/untitled-1.png)
Which will show, even if I do create more tiles, as the problem doesn't lie on the direct edges of the tile.
The only grass tile tutorial I've seen was St0ven's, which didn't really help me at all, so I just went about trying to create my own from scratch.
And yeah, I will have to create an entire set, but it should be a nice learning experience for me. :)
Btw, I noticed that I lost some quality saving as a .BMP, perhaps that's why you noticed extra colors? I fixed it in this post, I will save as .PNG from now on.
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Oh didnīt noticed it was an .jpg, yeah thats probably where the many colors come from.
Services like photobucket always convert .bmpīs to .jpg, so png or gif are the only choices here.
Ok, first here is an edit of your tile.
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp57/vierbit/pix_edits/grasstile_compare.png)
Generally avoid to much individual features for every grass leaf. So the varitation in lengh, brightness for the leafs remain
pretty much the same. That can be also adapted for pretty much every kind of tiles(water, stones ect.),
of course if you would like to use only one tile for every type of ground. Its also obvious that you cant completely avoid a pattern.
And yeah, no problem with the edges of your tile, they work fine.
OK, so here is a bit of explanation what I mean about drawing more tiles.
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp57/vierbit/pix_edits/grasstile.png)
As you can see I created quick 4 individual grass tiles, you can also see each create a very visible "grid".
But if you place them randomly on an bigger canvas, the grid is pretty much eleminated.
hope that helps(?)
edit:fixed links
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Yours look great, regardless of how quick you drew them. I wish I could do it that fast, but I hope to one day.
Anyways, I've drawn my first stone path tile.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/stonepath16.png) -> (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/stonepath48.png)
It definitely looks better than my last few attempts.
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Well, I guess my path is good then?
Anyways, I started working on the piece I feared the most, the tree, and it's starting to come out quite nicer than I expected, although it certainly is harder than those standard ground tiles I have there.
I have an outline with a little bit of shading on it so far, and was just wondering how I should continue with the contour. It's supposed to resemble an oak tree, but I have no room to fit such a giant tree in the game. I'm thinking I made the tree too tall, though, and don't have enough room for the canopy. Also, don't mind the shading, I was really just going off on a tangent there and trying some things, and it's by no means done, of course.
I don't know how much it helps, but I added some previous steps in, as well. Did I make smarter choices by changing the color palette (to be slightly more realistic) and changing the shape of the tree a little?
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/treewip4-2.png)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/TreeAnimWIP1.gif)
I have no idea how to do trees, and a little bit of help goes a long way, so please.
The little red boxes are there for sprite references, we haven't decided on a size yet, but it's likely to be 32x32 - 32x64.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/treewipbonus-1.png)
Also.. Trying to remind myself of the perspective here, but I mainly did it for fun. :crazy:
Comments on the dirt path and grass are still welcome as well. Btw, I'm really amazing myself with how good I am doing.. To myself. The only thing I've ever really drawn were doodles on paper, and certainly have never tried a serious attempt at pixel art before, I might be a fast learner or something. ;D
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a fine start! few quick notes though -
most trees do not spread roots above ground; the typical reason for doing this at all is erosion from around the original root base.
most trees branch much closer to the ground than to their tops, i'm not sure how high your tree will be but bear that in mind.
and without further distraction : Go!
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Hey Dr D, you seemed to have figured out the essence of learning something: "try stuff". Trees are something I still find quite hard, so there is little I can say but good work, and keep it up.
The little I can say is, when doing the leafs, make sure you keep the overall volume of the canopy in mind, and shade accordingly. Leaf texture alone will not make a convincing tree, you need to make sure the light is effecting the texture in the correct way. Good luck.
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Thanks for the quick replies!
I forgot to mention that this is based off Oak trees, as I learned not to just draw a 'tree', of course I have to define what kind of tree I am going to draw.
However, most Oak Trees have very large canopies, as of which I am not able to fit in, therefore, I have to make it a bit smaller than usual.
In the few pictures (no particular reference) of Oak trees that I found, the roots were large above the ground, so that's why I am doing them that way. I'm sure they're even much larger under the ground.
However, if you believe they should be less wider/bigger, then I'll see what I can do.
I'm not sure how I should go about doing the actual canopy yet, and still want to get the base right, and make sure I have it right, before I begin working on those.
Also, having the branches lower than they are right now is indeed a fine idea, it will give me more room for the canopy.
EDIT:
Quick update on the tree:
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/TreeAnimWIP25.gif)
Oldest to newest:
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/treewip.jpg) -> (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/treewip4-2.png) -> (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/treewip410.png)
Fixed some height and perspective issues. Again, you can ignore the shading.
Also at one point, I attempted to create a branch which was coming out towards the viewer, but I don't think/know (if) I did so well..
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/treewip4experimentviewerfacingbranc.png)
I guess I shouldn't try to input what I have no idea on how to do, eh? I can fare without it..
So, about the main piece, am I going in the right direction? C&C? And, comments on my stone path are still welcome, at least tell me if I did perfect or something.. (which I know I didn't.) ::)
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I went back to the stone tiles and attempted to clean them up and improve them, despite getting no critique on them.
I fixed some shading issues and jagged lines.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/newoldstonetiles.png)
I thought I was heading in a better direction as I was working on improving the tiles, but looking at the previous version, I'm not so sure.. Which do you guys think looks better? Tell me so I can start making a few more.
Also, C&C on the tree so far, so I can continue. Thank you.
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I like the first one, however there is a very noticible line going through it.
Have a look at Veirbit's previous post about that grass tile!!!!!!!
You need more variation to break the grid nicely.
Nice work and keep working on that tree:) They are one of the hardest things to do.
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Yeah, tell me about it.. I think I got off to a great start considering my level of experience (virtually none). Thanks for your critique on my stone path, and I'll surely add more tiles to break up the monotony. I was just wondering on the overall style between the two.
Is there any specific reason why you like the first one better?
On a different note, here's on an update on my tree:
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/TreeAnimWIP3.gif)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/treewip410.png) -> (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/Dustin99/treewip416.png)
What do you think? Takes up too much space? Lose the branch that curls around the tree? Too smooth? (That can probably be fixed later, though..)
I thought I would fare better drawing all the branches first (haven't done the main trunk splitting up into branches yet.) This takes more time, but it's good practice, and will probably help me with creating the canopy and creating an overall better end-result. Does everyone agree? C&C much needed, like always. The more mistakes I can learn from, the better.
Also, I think I foresee a problem with the styles of my art conflicting with each other, when used together, and I'm not really sure how to go about fixing that, but it isn't a problem yet, so hopefully it won't happen at all.
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I suggest you start working on the canopy. The branches will be mostly covered up anyway, so get cracking on the hard part.