Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Beoran on September 09, 2008, 07:43:49 pm
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This is work in progress sprite base for a female character in 3/4 top-down view, in slight anime-style as the head is 1 to 4 of body size, with a lot of space for "big hair" on the top. The two arms are different as the right hand is opened flat and the left one is clenched in a fist.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/4ec7f58d5f.png)
Update: current version.
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1748/spritebasefemalepre17uv8.png)
Reference used for this image:
(http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/phantasystar_090203_011_640w.jpg)
I used this reference because it has the style I like. I tried to capture the essence of the shape of the female sprite, whilst trying not to come too close to the original as I'm trying to learn from the reference, and not rip it. :-[
Restrictions: I want to restrict colors to 2 for the eyes, 4 for the body, 1 for the lips. Sprite size will be: 32x64 I want to use palette swapping to produce different skin colors, and reduce my overall spriting workload.
Any C&C is appreciated.
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OMG SHE'S NAKEDDDDDDDD NUDITYYY ALERT!!!!!!!
Did you look at any reference? Doing anatomy without any observation is never good, you know.
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(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p181/tikeshe/p.png)
I've done a small edit, it was a quick edit but i just wanted to show you what i thought looked wrong.
The things i changed was ;
The head, made more round.
The shouders.
And the Feet
Sorry i never had enough time to do the hands
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Bouzolf, no problems there, but I can't say why. ;)
Quake, thanks for your edit, however, it makes the character look more in a front view than a true 3/4 view. But I can see that the feet were too small, and also, the breasts were wrong. But I chose to preserve the head as I had it because, seen diagonally from the top, the head does look quite oblong. So this is my improved version:
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/867add2a72.png)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7f1d3e0a8c.png)
(Edit: slightly better breasts.)
I got rid of the right hand gesture because I don't need it, and I think the hands are a bit better like his, but still. I'm also not completely happy with the balance of the breasts, that's why I also shifted the legs to suggest a slightly rotated view in that direction. I made the feet a bit bigger, but , with the correct shape for a 3/4 view. As for the shoulders, I checked this on a live model, and when seen from 3/4 top view, the line of the shoulders seems to go up towards the neck, so I corrected that too.
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May you should fix the problem, where there isn't an absolute middle. This problem is very annoying xD
By this, i mean like on the breasts, there is no middle do one is bigger etc. You just need to move it 1 pixel from the middle.
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Are you sure you're looking at proper reference? I can't understand how this update (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7f1d3e0a8c.png) has better breasts. Even with an overly tight pushup bra, you're not going to have breasts squished together so tightly that they effectively form a single dome.
Also, the human head may be slightly more elongated when viewed from above, but elongated != conical, which is more or less what you have in your sprite. Also, what you have isn't strictly 3/4 view, per se. It's more of a slightly elevated front view, to be honest. Did a quick edit on the breasts, adding an intermediary shade. Also fixed the head. Didn't touch anything else, really.
(http://www.lotekk.com/misc/beoran-po1.gif)
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(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/682bc486d2.png)
Ok, LoTekk, the head was indeed too conical, and I accepted your fix for that.
The breasts however, I think I finally found a better solution for them, using only 2 colors. As you can see in this reference: http://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/1804R-2823 , actually, a woman with not too big breasts doesn't have a cleavage in the middle, but rather, the breasts spread out with mosts of the curves visible around the arms the arms, but with the nipples clearly visible.
And I shortened the legs lower to get closer to the 3/4 view I'm looking for. I also made the belly a bit tighter, for a more female effect.
And also, Quake, the sprite is finally symmetrical. I also tried to remove the middle line of pixels and compress the sprite like that, but it looked too sharp, and removed the cuteness of the character, so I solved it like you see above..
Edit: forgot image tag.
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Hurrah for nudity!
You've made some improvements on your woman, but she still looks frumpy and a little off.
So here's an edit I made. ;)
(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/8293/nudewomanedithx8.png)
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Ryona, I hope you don't mind if i made some edit on your girl. Just changed the shadows of her body
(http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08376/ryonaedit655.png)
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And the legs, as well. Which I think helped a good deal.
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Adjusted on Cure's advice [ I hope the change I did improved it] and also moved the shoulders down by a pixel. I also wonder if it's better to remove the highlights. Added the nipples, though I think it should be placed by a pixel down. And I though it's not really that important since you'll put clothes on her
(http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08376/edit5407.png)
made some changes based on helms highlight edits.
(http://xs131.xs.to/xs131/08381/girledit828.png)
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It's quite nice.
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Wow, guys and girls, you're going way over my skill level there. :P One question though, why do you all don't draw the nipples?
The problem is, this is all for sprites for the Action RPG I'm programming, and it would take me, at my current skill level, too much time to draw in the style you are using. And it's a free and open source game so I can't hire any of you guys, I'm afraid. And I'll need about 30 to 50 frames of animation for each base, and also a male base, different hair styles and clothes, etc. So I guess I have to make do with "frumpy" programmer's art. :p
Anyway, here's my last edit, not shaded and shaded, of course, where' I'm trying to take in the essence of the improvements you guys have made.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/0e73d014d5.png)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/5f48760f62.png)
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Edit - Added the nipples, though I think it should be placed by a pixel down. And I though it's not really that important since you'll put clothes on her
(http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08376/edit5407.png)
Building on the same edit, a few further notes:
(http://www.locustleaves.com/editelm.png)
I don't see why these sprites need to be completely mirrored. Just because convention has had them be like this? I disagree. Even at a small size like this, a bit of contraposto really I think gives it a lot of life.
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I don't see why these sprites need to be completely mirrored. Just because convention has had them be like this? I disagree. Even at a small size like this, a bit of contraposto really I think gives it a lot of life.
I believe that's a matter of time and resources. If you need to design and animate a huge set of clothes for them, it'll be a lot more troublesome if they can't be mirrored as well.
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Helm, again a lovely edit, which is way beyond me. I do agree that assymmetry is more natural and beautiful, however, it's as JJ Naas says, I'm planning to do at least 5 costumes (times 30 for all animation frames), so symmetry does make things a lot easier for me there. I'm not planning a small game but more like a 4 year project, I think. ^_^;
As for the nipples, I care about general anatomical correctness, because I plan to have some optional nude scenes in my game. Not that I want to include fan service, it's just something I don't want to exclude as a possibility. So call me European. ^_^
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If I'm going to be staring at these people's sprites for a huge rpg, I think it's an invaluable tradeoff to spend more time with the clothes not being mirrored etc. For -me at least- to get to the meat and potatoes gameplay first the game has to charm me. Graphics with character charm me, utilitarian 'programmer art' doesn't. If the gameplay you have in mind is groundbreaking then I guess I'd play it, but if it's an rpg sticking close to rpg conventions, then you need every help you can get for your audience to spend time with it.
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Well, Helm, I can see your point, and largely, I can agree with it. I think that you are right that for mass appeal, you need art with a certain charm. However, my point is mostly about strategy in planning this project.
If I was making a commercial game, I certainly would hire an artist. But that's not the case. The game will be free and open source so I have to do it differently. Basically, I have three options:
First option would be to for me spend a few more years on developing my art skills to comparable levels as yours, probably making my game a six year project. I don't think it's unrealistic to say that I need two years to make it from my level to your level, and that's probably even too optimistic.
Second option is that I find artists who are willing to work for free on such a project from the beginning. My experience in the past has been that it is not so easy to find artists willing to do this, for understandable reasons.
Finally, I can go for the utilitarian art, focus on developing compelling game play in stead, and then hope that the game will attract artists, like you people, who will hopefully be willing to help me out with improving the art.
I think I will go for this final approach, as this will result in something that is playable that much sooner. Also, I plan to make the game different enough from usual conventions. Other famous open source games like Battle for Wesnoth took the same approach, I hope this is the most viable approach.
Of course, I'm open to all and any suggestions, here. :)
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The third way will get results. If you make a lot of the game with utilitarian art and the game is good, it WILL attract artists and they will dress up the game for you. But I sincerely think you should go for the 'six year plan' personally, because the skills you learn yourself will stay with you forever. Besides the personal growth that will occur - and perhaps that should be priority 1 - to get to a high level as an artist, you will also not be dependent on other people. And a game made by a single person fully is probably going to be better than a game made by one coder and 12 artists doing a few pieces for free each. Preserve your vision, work on your art, get there on your own. That's my suggestion. However this is a bit premature. What you have right now and the edit I did of the edit by Froli on Ryona's edit is indeed a bit far away. And that might not be helping you. But you're an awesome guy and you've helped people with their coding here out of pure goodness so - besides the cookies - what I want to do for you is this: I want you to tell me what intermediate critique you need from where you are right now to where the most recent edit is, the 'middle step' so to speak in the ladder, and I will - hopefully other people to - help you get to the middle of the road and then you'll see the end result isn't as far away as it might seem now.
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Well, again, I think you have a very good point there. And I thank you for wanting to help me in this way. I think I will go the middle way, that is, start out with utilitarian art, but then improve it gradually myself as I go, or perhaps with help of others if they meet my vision.
Just by hanging around in this forum, reading the advice, and looking at what others are doing, I've been improving my art skills slowly. I'm sure that they will develop more over time, although I do plan to give developing the game play itself priority.
As for how you could help me, well, as you see, I'm starting with the essentials. In conventional art lessoons, one usually begins with learning how to draw and use lines before one goes on to paint and shading. I feel it's the same for pixel art. so to start, I want to get the shape and lines right, and make it to a "Phantasy Star 4" level of artwork, before I go on to the next level.
That's why I'm not shading too much yet, nor worrying too much about what colors to use. Greatly enhanced edits like Ryona's are nice to see, and I can learn a few things from them. But I feel that I can learn more from improvements to the shape and lines like those of Lotekk. Like that, I can take it one step at the time. If you look from where I started in this thread to where I am now, you can see I've already progressed somewhat, and no doubt, with the help of all of you I will continue to improve. So, thanks to all of you. :)
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Let's talk about lineart then. What you have going in your latest version
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/0e73d014d5.png)
Is a vast improvement over the first one you did. However, there is an issue: Phantasy Star (and games of that kind) don't really have 3/4 top down sprites. They have straight front sprites. Let's look at phantasy star 4.
(http://www.locustleaves.com/pstar.png)
(random image I captured from where I am in my current playthrough. I love this game.
Sideways with floppy feet (which I don't particularily like). There are reasons this game does this, and I suggest you do similarily.
Here's my edit
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/0e73d014d5.png) (http://www.locustleaves.com/contrapostpose.gif)
Forget trying to fake some depth in there. Instead give the iconic front view more space to be a character. The second frame of the animation explains basic contraposto, is it clear what I am doing there?
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Helm: your edits are obviously giving the character alot of life, but I feel that all that effort may be a bit wasted. If you were playing the game, how long would you be looking at the standing idle sprite before moving into a direction that would eliminate that asymetric pose? ( you are a bad example because your a pixel artist, and we look at that stuff alot :P but a normal gamer will probably be more interested in walking around than staring at pixel art)
Beoran: Your newest lineart is wonderful, but why don't you do more with your colors? you have 4 colors for the skin, you can do alot with that. I could make an edit but both Ryona's and Froli's edits have done a wonderful job of showing depth and form.
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All the little bits count. The player might not digest these things consciously, but subconsciously all the little bits of character add up to a lively experience. And you look at such standing still sprites a lot in jrpgs while you mess around with equipment and status screens etc.
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I guess "wasted" would obviously not be the best term to use because I agree that all those little bits count. If there were to be equipment and status screens maybe then a single sprite that would have a very different posed could be made? Seeing as how this sprite is a base, I wouldn't see the point of giving it character which would then give all female characters the same... character. If you're going to add character, do it individually maybe?
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Yes, well, Helm, when I said "Phantasy Star 4 style" I was talking the general skill level, not the exact detail. ^_^;;; also, I hope to either evolve to a level close to what you see in the first reference image I posted, but that's probably for later. Especially because my game will have 32x64 sprites as compared to the much smaller (16x32?) Phantasy Star 4 sprites. The reasons I want to do the sprites in 3/4 view is because this is something that kind of irks me in top down games: the walls, surroundings, plants, etc are all in 3/4 but the sprites are not. Still, I love top-down games regardless. ^_^
So here are my two main questions, and I hope they don' t sound silly to you. You say there's a good reason for going flat over 3/4 for sprites, because it increases the expressiveness of the sprite? But why is that? I really don't see how a flat sprite is better than one with a fake perspective? Or is this for educational reasons? And I'm also wondering why you are making the head more square? I guess PS4 does it because of low resolution, but should I do the same? Does it offer better possibilities with the hair or other facial expressions?
But, I do see where you are going with the contraposito, by creating "assymmetry in a balanced" way the sprite looks more "alive" and human. I can easily see how a weapon, like a sword or spear would fit perfectly in the hand, and look as if it could be used to strike. Such a contraposito is definitely something I'd consider for the main character, as opposed to a mere base which I would use foremost for testing and for plain NPC's. By the way. I also plan to have correct assymetry for right-facing and left facing sprites, at least for how the weapon is rendered. No such nonsense like the sprite facing right and having the weapon in the right hand, and then facing left and having the weapon in the left hand. At the very least, I'll render the weapon behind the sprite when facing left in the case of a right-handed character.
Anyway, thanks, this is really interesting. ^_^
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Geez, I'm learning a lot reading all the stuff here. I hope those that drop by don't just skip, seeing the long read ;)
Ryona, Froli and Helm edit look so fantastic and readable. I can even see the whole knee structure and how she's clenching the fist.
Anyway, hope you guys don't mind me jumping into the discussion. I think some of the possible reason for aborting the 3/4 look is because having a flat sprites means more space for their expressions. When you see everything top down, most actions becomes a lot more subtle. And also, viewers often recognize/focus characters from their head and face ( I have a feeling it's also why super deform characters were used in RPG back then). Going 3/4 top down, player are going to be staring at their hair. Top view will also means that character's proportions will be distorted and harder for viewer to recognize.
As an illustrator myself, I rather go for things that looks nice instead of things don't, but just "correct" in real life ;)
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Well, Tobe, that's an argument I can somewhat understand. So perhaps I won't go for a full 3/4 view, more like a "slightly elevated view" as my sprite was called before. I think it should be possible to also emphasize the face in that way.
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Update:
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/ab27038d46.png)
For this one, I tried my hand at shading it anyway, because I decided to up my my art goal to better than PS4, not equal to it. I realized that I need one more color for the body colors to pull this off, namely an "inline color", making a total of five, not four colors. Before I was using outline and inline together, which gives huge problems in defining the neck, breasts, etc.
I'm quite content with the general look of this one, It has the style I like and not too much shading (which I tend to dislike). I can't think of any way to improve it, except maybe the palette, as I tried many changes already that didn't improve anything, but if someone has more hints, I'd love to hear them. :)
Oh yes, and it's not asymmetrical in pose, but it is in shading. I wanted to keep my base easy to add clothes on whilst simultaneously adding a little bit more "extra" to it.
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This is much better! The speculars on the breasts would be near the center of their mass, not at the ridges of the portrusions. Also you're banding a little (in the pelvis area or in the neck shadow area) , do you know what banding is? Search on the forums if not. Your sprite lacks a full value range also, is this intentional?
You're making great progress though.
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(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7610/spritebasefemalepre16ri1.png)
I took a look at this reference, and indeed, the highlights are next to the nipples, and also in the cleavage:
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2007/6/26jun08-perfect-breasts.jpg
So I adjusted my highlights. I looked up "banding", and I tried to remove it from my sprite, but I'm
not too sure I caught it. When I looked at the Santa Claus you edited, I could see the improvement, but not quite grasp
how you did it. Also, it's more easy to see banding in other people's art than in my own, I guess. :p
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9937/spritebasefemalepre16grik4.png)
As for the colors, I don't like colors with a too low value, as I don't want it to look too dark. I kind of disliked the dark feel of the colors of Ryona's edit. Also, I'll be swapping the palette, so what is most important is the range of contrast. I made a grayscale above, and it kind of looks OK. Or perhaps my mid-shadow is a bit to similar to my "normal" color? Anyway, if you have a suggestion for a palette edit, I'd love to see it. :)
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About banding. Well, maybe you can say that pixelart is about sharpness and put details even into subpixel-level. When you do banding, you increase the thickness of a line (or region) without adding information. This can be observed in the pelvis area (as Helm stated). You want to AA the cleft, but you have not enough contrast that the eye reads "antialiasing".
About contrast. You said that you don't want the sprite too dark, but contrast is needed that you can read volumes. Your greyscale image shows this pretty well I think. In 100% view it looks quite flat. I tried to "sculp" the figure with just three different values: light (surface points up), mid (surface points towards viewer) and dark (surface points down). The other three colors are outline, AA (from outline to dark) and background. The sprite isn't really dark by itself. I think I could make it even brighter without lossing much contrast (and thereby volume).
About skin colors. The colors I used here were colorpicked from wicked weasel (bikini shop with modelshots). Since they're from reality photographs they don't fit into a game without modifications but I hope you get some inspiration for alternative skincolor than the generic (cute?) piggy color.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/markusrosse/pixel/beoranedit.png)
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(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5216/spritebasefemalepre16zl3.png)
OK, I think I understood what was wrong about the pelvis. I was adding too much anti aliasing there, what with the triple line of the pelvace. I thought the triple line defined better, but, now I understand that the anti aliasing made the definition of the pelvis worse. In this edit, I also added more dramatic highlights similar to the ones in your edit, but asymmetrical for extra effect. I especially like your head highlight, I wonder how I never thought about that before. I did not change the face as per your edit because I think it changes the expression in a way I dislike. It may seem like too much anti aliasing, but it really helps in defining the face from the rest of the head, I think. I also didn't adopt your edit of the beasts completely because I think it makes them look too square.
As an aside, the image should be seen in a +- 2x magnification as that how it will be seen on the game screen (640x480 resolution).
I also made the contrasts of my color ramp somewhat stronger, and you can see in the grayscale that the contrasts are now better. But I did not change the hue, as I like this "piggy" color, and IMO, the other skin color looks too reddish to me. Maybe it's because I (think I) have some funny kind of color blindness where dark colors don't register. Maybe I'll just let the player set their character's palette the way they like it. :p
Edit: I just did some online tests and finally I found out that I have "Deuteranomaly" (nothing any doctor ever could tell me), that is, I can see all colors, but green less intensely so. That means that the skin colors you propose will look more red to me, because I don't see the green in them as intensely. That's also why I add more green (towards yellow) to make a skin hue.
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You're progressing greatly, here's an edit and some thoughts.
(http://www.locustleaves.com/spritebase.png) (http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5216/spritebasefemalepre16zl3.png)
* Can you see the two little 'horns' the shape of the head in ours gives her now? This is a matter of AAing the inside of a circle. See where I placed two darker pixels in the 'holes' to suggest a rounder shape?
* The shoulder highlights where too extensive, I think.
* I don't know how your eyes see it, but I made the highlight color pinker, perhaps it helps.
* You don't need to OUTLINE the underside of the breasts, shapes can be suggested with softer volumes as well. Look at mine and tell me if you have any problem reading the breasts as breasts too. Same for the pelvis area.
* It might be of use for you to know that the 'perfect breasts' posted above, are very probably silicone-based.
* The arms could use to be a couple of pixels longer.
* That line that connects the inner thighs, it's just so problematic at where the actual connection of the two legs is made as there is a HARSH jaggy there that suggest malformed flesh. Not only you need to aa that line on the inside of the sprite, but it's such a problem for me that I would just place the feet wider apart just to avoid having to deal with it altogether.
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based of Helm's edit:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/tumble_weed/spritebase-EDIT.png)
*Helm, I think you made her a bit pre-pubescent with your edit. I tried adding a bit more definition around her breasts.
*I played around a bit with her knee/leg area, the shading there doesn't seem to resemble what a leg in that position would look like. I'm not sure that my version is a whole lot better, but I think you need to try defining the knees a bit more.
*Your current arms seem a bit jaggy
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Here's what I did with most of your suggestions. I didn't just copy them of course, I still like my face better, and I did the breasts, arms, neck and collar bone somewhat different.
(http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2969/spritebasefemalepre17dw6.png)
- Yes, I can see the little horns I had on the top "corners" of he head. I already tried to AA them, and it helped somewhat, but apparently the AA pixels needed to be darker as like you did.
- Yes, I was going from too few to too many highlights there with the shoulders.
- I can definitely agree the pelvis is much better if I don't outline it completely. The breasts are a bit less pronounced when not outlined, but, more realistic. So, I'll go that way.
- I see your point, but I think it's humorous to speak about "silicon" breasts when we're talking about a game character that exists mainly "in silicon". :)
- I lengthened the arms by 1 pixel, like in your edit. Perhaps one more is in order, but I'm a bit tired now.
- I made two poses, one with open and one with closed legs. I'm not sure that the opened legs are better, though.
As for the color, I think that my perception of green is roughly 20% less than that of people of average color sight. If I correct your colors for my color blindness, by adding 20% to the green channel, then actually your colors are almost the same as my colors. :) I think I'll have to adjust my colors by removing about 20% from the green channel to make them look "right" for normal people. For now, I just slightly increased the saturation.
Scamocore, you just posted your edit as I wrote this. Will look into it tomorrow.
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even with all the edits this is sill suffering from SSS ("seated while standing syndrome") which is actually a side-effect of underlying perspective issues combined with over-eager lighting on the thigh-to-shin difference. What you've got here is pretty much a straight-on character with tall feet and low eyes rather than a character in 3/4ths, making her appear flat to the camera and therefor 45o to the ground plane. not much is going to help until that's resolved.
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Yes, well, I can see what you mean, but I don't quite see how I could solve it. I would appreciate an edit if you have some time to spare. :)
Edit:
Oh, and I forgot to mention explicitly, but the plan has slightly changed. I'm not doing pure 3/4 view anymore, the goal is now "sligthly" elevated, more like 1/2, or from a 45 degree angle...
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Id say take the lightest highlights away from the thigh's and feet. Also while the eyes are far down on the face, imo ( I might be the only one) the eyes till look like they are looking up at the player. Maybe bring the head down a pixel and/or make the eyes a a pixel shorter.
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(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1748/spritebasefemalepre17uv8.png)
Taking also some of scamocore's improvements, I've reduced, but not removed entirely, the highlights and shadows on the legs and the feet, and also on the stomach. As for the position of the eyes, the lower position does look more "correct", however, I like the slightly-looking-towards-t-the-player for psychologic and representative effect. I feel I can relate better to a character who looks at me. Perhaps Helms point about allowing characters to remain characters, is important here. I feel that, just like in a comic book, in a video game, realism is secondary to representation value. Actually, that's why I'm making my game in 2D to begin with. If I wanted realism, I'd go for a 3D game. That doesn't mean I should do my best to make the sprites look good, though. The player has to feel "hey, that could be me", not "that looks kind of ugly".
To give you an idea of what "the competition" in the free and open software world is doing, consider this snapshot of "The Mana World", a free MMORPG (that's quite fun to play already, and quite popular). I'll be glad if I can make sprites and tiles that are more beautiful and consistent than these:
(http://wiki.themanaworld.org/images/b/b7/TMW_Screenshot_8.png)
Edit: some more fiddling with the legs and feet, made the feet smaller and the upper legs longer. I'm unsure if this is better or not.
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5681/spritebasefemalepre18we5.png)
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Fair enough. In the latest edit I think that making the upper legs longer just makes it into a more ideal figure than a more "realistic" one. But the smaller feet might be good to implement. How much art will you be doing by yourself? If you keep all the art pixel art and don't use any of that ugly brushy stuff I know it will be more consistent and where your base is heading now, I can easily see your game surpassing that visually. :]
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Well, I'll revert it back to the more normal legs, but fiddle around with the feet a bit more. However, I think that seen the progress I've already made and also seen that I've been fiddling with one sprite for over a month, I will have to say "good enough is good enough", at least for now, so I can finally start drawing all other poses for the base, and finally have some sprites to put in my game! :)
I also don't like the brush stuff TMW uses. Pixel art fro the win! :) I will be using this game's tiles for testing, (which I can do because the art is also open source, like my game) but I'll replace them with my own further down the line. And, I do plan to make most pixel art myself, that is, unless I can find someone who is willing to help me and stick to the general style I'm currently headed to. I like how it's turning out. Especially the face I have now on my sprite is my favourite "style".
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If it is 3/4ths top view wouldn't you see more of the top of the shoulders? Go get an action figure and duplicate that view, you'll see what i mean.
edit: I took the liberty and took a picture for you.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/sakura.jpg)
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I really suggest going with symbolic frontview on map, like PS4 (perhaps when I said 'there are reasons they did this' I should have explained them!) and not top-down!
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Yes, Helm, I would love to hear your reasons, but I guess I kind of feel what you mean. After all, the only RPG I know that died a genuine 3/4 view in the sprites is the 7th Saga, and I don't think that looks so good. http://www.snesclassics.com/snes-roms/images/boxart/7th%20saga,%20the.jpg (http://www.snesclassics.com/snes-roms/images/boxart/7th%20saga,%20the.jpg)
Phantasy star 4 uses a simple front view, but I feel my first reference from Phantasy Star Chronicles, The Mana World, and even Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger use a "slightly elevated" symbolic front and side view. That's why I'm aiming for such a "slightly elevated" view now. You know, front view with a hint of "above"-ness. I hope my current sprite captured that idea, although I'm open to suggestions as to hos to improve to that goal (like always).
Mike, thank you for that photo. However, my goal has changed a bit since I wrote my first post. I want to go with the slightly elevated front view. However, I think I can't change the title of this thread anymore? Edit: I can? OK, I did it to reflect my new goal.
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I agree 7th Saga main sprites don't look good for their angle. It creates this emotional distance to see your main character like that, as if you're god controlling peons on the overworld, whereas a story rpg should have ways to achieve a minimum of empathy for your protagonist. Looking at them in the eye is bare minimum for this.
I think your current sprite is good and you should move on to the next item in your todo list.