Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Souly on April 04, 2008, 01:24:40 am
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(http://i29.tinypic.com/2lxyut5.gif)(http://i32.tinypic.com/aakbch.gif)(http://i29.tinypic.com/ehkymd.gif)
(http://i30.tinypic.com/14jyvwp.jpg)(http://i27.tinypic.com/x6bkag.gif)(http://i27.tinypic.com/2nbzkhy.gif)
(http://i30.tinypic.com/1418t4z.gif)(http://i32.tinypic.com/vfcvow.gif)
Basically making a fighter sprite with a huge sword.
Edit: I just realized I made him left handed..
Edit2: I've done some coloring and shading.
The body is unfinished, it's getting late so I'll wait till morning to do more.
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reminds me of this fella:
http://www.geocities.com/cc3chan/berserk1.jpg
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reminds me of this fella:
http://www.geocities.com/cc3chan/berserk1.jpg
Gatts is very much the character I was basing this off of.
I loved Beserk, it's the only manga I've read fully.
Shame how it ended.
It was mainly this image that made me want to make a giant broadsword swordsmen.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/soulcop/19-20.jpg
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Is he dragging his sword along the ground? IF not, I would prefer it if his walk was uneven, otherwise it doesn't seem heavy.
His right leg comes back too far on walk anim.
You are very good with the pictures with variable line widths. However, with single lines, I think volumes and shading become more important and you need to work on that more in this piece.
His left leg is wrong, the shin is too small, dont think you could even justify it even if there was perspective coming into play. Also, legs get thinner at the knees in my mind, which is not happening. With his right arm, the forearm is too long and other bit too short, his right shoulder is too close to neck. His feet are too small, his fingers too short. The two darkest shades on skin are nice but the highlights are abstract (because of giant square pixels). What kind of clothes is he wearing? weird colors.
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There's a few design issues that should be mentioned; Now granted, the fact that he has a sword that's longer than his height means reality goes out the window, but there are still some "realistic" touches you can give it to help suspend disbelief.
I think the hilt should be longer so he has more leverage to move that thing. As it is, even if it were as light as a feather he would have incredible difficulty swinging that thing because the hilt is so uncomfortably short.
I also don't think the character looks like someone who would carry a sword that big; take away the sword and the guy isn't very intimidating at all, he's average build, average height guy who will be vulnerable to anyone that doesn't try to attack his head (since it's armored). How can this character exist? Does he have a magical sword that enables him to wield it easily despite his physical weakness? You could play that up. Or is he a hardened warrior who has trained in extreme physical conditions? If so, he would inspire fear in his enemies even without the sword; you would look at him and say "obviously he would carry a sword like that!"
I hope this doesn't sound harsh, I'm just trying to inspire your imagination to work a little harder on this guy's personality. Right now it's just like "Ooh big sword! Oh, and there's a dude carrying it." Good character design is vitally important for fighting games.
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Sharprm:
Yes, he is dragging his sword at all times.
I guess I can add some sparks or ground being dug up to show that.
I imagine the sword to be rediculously heavy so it'd be pointless to try and carry it in the air.
You'd just waste energy if you held it in the air while running.
Basically he's just going to be slamming his sword around.
What do you mean by variable lines?
I'll take a look into what I can do to fix the legs and proportion problems.
Earlier this morning I tried fixing the walking animation.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2eqcdco.jpg)
As for the clothes, I wasn't really thinking when I them, them just kind of went with the flow.
I didn't want too much heavy aromor since the sword looks unbelievably too big to swing.
So I was thinking just a chain mail suit.
But at the moment it's too green and I also have to figure out how to make good chain mail without making animation even harder for myself.
Ben2theEdge:
Alright, I'll make the hilt longer.
I was just getting ready to touch up the sword.
Well the sword isn't supposed to match the size of the guy using it.
It's supposed to match the size of the things he has to use it against.
The character in the manga trained with an adult sword when he was a child.
So as he got bigger, so did his sword.
Besides his build size is there any way I could make him a bit moral decreasing?
I guess I could try and buff him up and make him seem pure raw muscle.
Also does anyone have crits on the new walking animation at the moment?
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(http://i27.tinypic.com/wvr80p.gif)->(http://i29.tinypic.com/ehkymd.gif)
Changed the hand placement as well as the the length of the hilt.
Obviously worked on the sword a bit, made it more obvious that he drags it everywhere.
Lenthened his left shin, shortened his right forearm.
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Ooh, this is coming along nicely. :)
His arms are a bit oddly shaped, though, and his right (our left) elbow needs to be lower. I think he should be more turned to the side facing the hilt of the sword with his arms closer to his body. He also needs bigger feet.
I think you should try not to use black for outlines where you can avoid it, like on the brighter parts of his armor. The shading on his torso makes him look a bit flat, so add a bit more shadow to it. I'm also not sure if that brown shade works placed next to that green. It seems a bit random. I'd also use a darker color on the arms and helmet instead of that gray. You need more contrast to make it look metallic.
As for the animation, slow it down and try to have him pause after each step. I'm not sure how to animate something like that, but maybe you'll get a better idea of how he should move if you find something heavy and try dragging it behind you? I think he'll be more upright as he takes a step forwards, then he'll put his weight on that foot and lean forwards to drag his sword along. Also try to rotate the sword a bit so that the tip is always at ground level rather than have it bounce around like that.
Looking forward to seeing it done! ;D
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(http://i31.tinypic.com/2mcajjs.gif)->(http://i25.tinypic.com/2ztj4fd.gif)
Arachne, you're suggestion gave me a great idea for the walk while I was doing the colored version.
Which was make him lean forward while pulling the sword.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/adgl8x.gif)
Here's one with the pause for you Arachne.
The suit part is still under development...
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I my opinion the sword seems too light. He's pulling it too easily, maybe exaggerate the dragging motion so it seems stresses a bit more? Also, the walking cycle is very choppy, it actually doesn't even seem to be walking, more a shuffling of his feet.
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I meant to say varying line widths, like sometimes it is one pixel wide, other times 2 or 3 etc. My observation might not be correct - I just noticed when I was transforming one of my pictures with varying line widths to single line widths, there was a lot of work fixing it up and shading was more important.
I always found if I tried to fix a colored animation, I could never do that, its only when its black and white that you can efficiently fix things. In case u r getting frustrated, consider going back to line art.
The legs look like they flip all over the place, like his left leg goes up but his right leg goes down. I also wouldn't know how to do this anim properly. funny idea: you know if you pushed something heavy on a slippery floor with socks, your feet would be doing alot of cycles but you would only be moving a little bit, maybe u could have a comic anim with that same effect and this massive sword.
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i just can't see this as a walk animation, the legs are just a jumble to me. not the most useful crit but......hmm.
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I think the problem is that the leg furthest away is lower than the leg closest to us in the third frame, when it should be the other way around. The leg closest to us in the third frame is also almost identical to the leg furthest away from us in the first frame, so your mind reads it as the same leg again. Use perspective and shading to add a sense of distance. If you adjust the length of the leg in the third frame and add some highlights to the dark parts of the legs so that it's easier to tell them apart, I think it should look much better. :)
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(http://i31.tinypic.com/wsjtaa.gif)->(http://i27.tinypic.com/2nbzkhy.gif)
I found a lot of the problems in the animation.
The legs got too long in some frames.
I also decided to add an extra frame, 4 seemed too little..
Edit: Decided to leave him leaning to give it more of a pull feel.
(http://i30.tinypic.com/11rymvq.gif)
This will be the stance he will be in after swinging his sword.
(http://i31.tinypic.com/w0ryug.gif)->(http://i31.tinypic.com/2h2ph5x.gif)
Still needs a motion trail inbetween the tip of the lift and the fall.
And there is still much to be done but this is what I have as far.
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I like the sword, but your attack animation really isn't communicating the weight effectively.
In general, try looking at the position of only part of of his body while stepping through to see if they describe clean movement paths - currently his feet jiggle around meaninglessly, and the head position isn't much better..
This is most important with the sword - heavy objects cannot (without enormous force) make sudden changes of movement. Once they start moving or rotating one way, they're probably going to carry on like that.
If you want him to finish in that frame after swinging, he needs to be taking a step forwards during the swing - currently his right foot is sliding back a lot in between frames 5 and 6 (which also makes it confusing which leg is which, since they more or less swap position at that point)
I don't understand why he rotates the sword as he lifts it before the swing - it would make it require even more strength. And you'd get more air resistance, trying to start swinging it like that.
After thinking about it a bit, I reckon you'd want him to lower his body a bit at the start - this way he can start the sword rotating, and crouch down to start lifting its weight at the same time.
Maybe also move the frame before the impact point back a little, so the impact frame has the biggest motion (and have the most motion blur on the impact frame)
This stuff's hard to describe, so here's an incredibly messy (:P) edit to hopefully clarify what I mean:
(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6897/bigswordswinganimeditay2.gif)
It would also be good to add some sparks or something to the impact frame to emphasize the blade smashing into the floor.
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this over the back thing makes no sense to me, quick marker drawing (didn't get to see it in moton until it was scanned, so i might actually change a few things - hang time in the middle is for an extra frame you might want)
(http://xs126.xs.to/xs126/08146/work_in_progress_7790.gif)
by breaking it up into two parts like this, you also allow the possibility of a gameplay bit - his enemy can hit him before the swing falls. this would be matched against maybe a lower, faster swing.
for even more effect, and some frames between hitting the ground and regaining control of the blade - adding in the frames at the top and at the end can easily make this a nice 12-frame anim.
also i culdnt find any examples but if my memroy of yore serves me, Fable has some great handling of heavy objects if you equip them too big too soon.
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I now regret doing this animation without a wire frame.
If worse comes to worse, I'll just make one and edit this animation accordingly.
I think I get the leg motion now, but the arms are way off.. D:
(http://i26.tinypic.com/2vanrsy.gif)->(http://i29.tinypic.com/2z8qhs8.gif)
(http://i30.tinypic.com/1418t4z.gif)
Thanks for the animation edits guys, they are helping me quite a bit. :crazy:
Edit: Added an extra frame in the pull up, and motion trails on the swords final swing.
Edit2: Made him actually step forward, also fixed up the first motion trail to appear less strong.
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Take a broom or something and go into a hallway or outside and then swing it and pause at every frame.
In some frames, you've got the sword too far ahead and at a further angle of than where it should actually be, and it's making it look almost like the sword is falling out of his hands.
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8554/wonkyav9.png)
The red lines are what I'd say are a safe, realistic angle for the frame, and the green lines are where I would put them if it where my piece :P.
Then, there's an issue with the legs. Right now it looks like he's just sliding the foot in the rear forwards as he swings. I think more realistically that he'd lift it and bring it down as the sword hit--for more "umph", you know? Do the broom exercise and you'll see what I mean, I think.
And also, just want to say that there's a frame where it's almost as if his hand is upside down; it's pointed out on the edit-thingy.
Good luck ;)
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(http://i29.tinypic.com/2vwuvb8.jpg)
Fixed the frame in question, his arm was bent the wrong way. :blind:
Fixed the sword I believe, it's been pushed back to about the red line, it's also been angled so it looks more like he's finishing the rotation of the sword.
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(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8554/wonkyav9.png)
how on earth does one accomplish either of these frames?
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I don't think the slight kneeling down part of this is doing it any favours, personally I think you should of really gone into how you were gonna go about this before hand because it's going to be pretty tricky doing anything fancy without re-doing a lot.
I think it looks fine as it is, with just a solid swoop of the sword (Like this below), suits it nicely imo, could be wrong. But I wouldn't rack your brain too much about this animation unless you're going for a perfect piece.
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1295/52872753er1.gif)
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(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8554/wonkyav9.png)
how on earth does one accomplish either of these frames?
I have no idea what I was doing with the one on the right..
That has been fixed in the new animation.
(http://i25.tinypic.com/15g8chl.gif)->(http://i32.tinypic.com/vfcvow.gif)
Terley I agree with you on the kneel, it seem's more like an attack now.
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hey
What I find odd is how the sword is initially facing us like that, with its weight you would think it would be tilted sideways as it would be to hard for them to keep it facing the way it is ;). I also think it would be better with a more traditional sword, with the big handle sticking out sideways and the actual sword alot thinner, but I guess this is just a personal thing :\.
I haven't read the other posts but I think the animation look like rubber man with double jointed sholders to beable to swing a sword like that, hehe. I think ndchristie's example is better, and so to Ichigo Jam's edit. So yea, maybe look more into those ;).
Ohh, another thing that I think is odd is the way the cape is at the very end, I'd think it would be away from the body, rather than tight around the leg or whatever.
Finally I think you should make the handle of the sword far larger, as it would be so hard to lift such a sword with such a short handle, you would need to get some sorta leverage.
Anyhows I will leave it at that for now.
edit
I was just thinking, the only thing that looks exagerated to me is the overly sized sword. Anyhows if you want it to really look exagerated then I think you need to extend on the animation. Hmm, I think maybe think about making the start of the animation to take a few seconds with them just trying to lift the thing, and then finally they get enough strength and momentum or whatever and get it around, and then make it so the sword gets stuck in the ground at the end and them trying to pull it out or something, I think that would be exageration, hehe :). Another thing is to maybe have the helment lifting up and almost falling off or whatever, hehe.
cyas
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Okay so the more I look at it the less this makes sense. In the right frame of the two Rydin posted, how does he go from having it by his side to behind his back? It looks like one arm would have to go through his head to get there and the other would bend in a way that would break it. :(
Although in retrospect seems that's what Nathan was talking about.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
:durr:
Although... it still doesn't make sense. Really, what are you trying to make him do, Souly?
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
:durr:
Damn you Yosh.
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The frame that Rydin posted have been fixed and delt with a while back he no longer tries to lift the sword over his head like he has a gimp arm.
As for ndchristie's edit, I want to use the first motion
I am pleased with this one at the moment due to Terly's edit showing me the kneel was pointless.
(http://i32.tinypic.com/vfcvow.gif)
I've practiced this attack with the giant foam and plastic sword I made a while back.
I don't want it to be a slow struggled attack, I want him to have full control over this behemoth of a sword.
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I merely used Rydin's post as a point of reference for where it was in the animation, I was writing about your (at this point) second newest version, so problems with the arms are still there.
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what i don't understand is why he crosses his elbow over his face, which is not only awkward, dangerous and time consuming but makes for a weak attack. Please do this move yourself, and then do it bringing the sword/broom up in front of the face clockwise and tell me if it isn't much more fluid. after that, have the sword move counterclockwise the way yours does, but keep the right elbow in front of the head rather than crossing it. either alternative is viable, but the current is ridic.
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I agree with Yosh about the cape, it'd be a nice to have a slight delay with it so it's not so clinged to his back.
IGoRge's done a pretty good pixel animation with the character wearing a cape, worth a look.
http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/31255.htm#
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(http://pixeljoint.com/files/icons/full/walk__r123336741.gif)
Added some dirt behind the sword.
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With such a massive object you'd think that with the swing it'd start out much slower and then, once momentum has been gained, become a blur, to really give it that feeling of "holy crap, heavy!" It also looks weird the way he's completely still after swinging. I mean, if your gonna be swinging something that huge it's gonna carry you with it, you know? And once it stops you're gonna keep going, you know?
That walk cycle is...really weird. The way the legs just seem to switch places like that, it really messes with the illusion of fluid motion, and the way each step is animated with asymmetric timing.
Here's an animation I made a while ago of a character with a similarly heavy object and pose (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Xionight/Hunchecutioner.gif) Yeah, completely different style, but it may (or may not) help.
I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if I've repeated something.
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To me, your biggest issue with the attack animation are two things; pacing and the angle of the sword.
As it is now the attack moves at the same speed throughout the animation, there's no buildup and no snapping motion.
It's looks as if he just lets the sword fall down, not applying any force.
As for the angle of the sword, the character does some pretty weird things (aside from moving the elbow in front of his face).
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/mr_norris/binocu_1.gif)
This frame is perhaps the biggest issue in the animation. The angle here is what you'd get from a near completed swing,
yet most of the sword is still above his head. And he holds the sword in an almost impossible way. I can imagine an actual
sword like that, swung that way, could end up injuring your wrists since the awkward pose puts strain on the wrists.
I did a quick paint-over of how he should hold the sword when his arms are in a similar position.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/mr_norris/sword_man.gif)
I totally agree with ndchristie about breaking up the animation in two parts.
Swinging the sword forward and positioning it above the head with the help of the momentum of the swing
would probably take less effort than just lifting it.
Also, it makes more sense to make a swing since he wouldn't leave himself vulnerable then.
I also did a small animation of it (uncannily similar to ndchristies too :crazy:)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/mr_norris/swordy3.gif)
I also notice you contradict yourself. With the walking animation you wanted to make him drag the sword like he has trouble with it.
With the attack you want him to swing it without effort.
I imagine the sword to be rediculously heavy so it'd be pointless to try and carry it in the air.
If he could wield the sword effortless, carrying it around would not be a big problem.
I'd suggest looking at Siegfried from SC3 (if you have access to the game, play it and study it. if you don't have it www.youtube.com)
He wields a huge sword (granted, not "Gats" huge but still pretty big) but does so effortlessly.
Siegfried is a very good example of "huge sword guy" done right.
I reckon the "slow struggling attack" you mention is the actual buildup for the attack.
The buildup is necessary for such a big sword. At least to make it look convincing.
Hope it helps :)
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- The step should be completed before the swing is finished.
- The sword should still be angled mostly downward when the arms are fully raised.
(Mechanically this makes more sense considering the sword's weight, and as it is, you're cutting the arc of the swing in half.)
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Okay I've gone over what all of you have said.
I really pictured this attack coming straight over him from behind so I'm going to keep trying to make this one work.
I tried applying Luzeke's edit on how he should be holding the sword.
Still haven't fixed this frame (http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/mr_norris/binocu_1.gif)
I re-added the kneel, and drew a new frame for more of a stretching motion as he goes to swing it over himself.
Don't know if I should either keep the stall when he goes to hurl the sword.
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2dv20yq.gif) or (http://i32.tinypic.com/adi6ad.gif)
I also notice you contradict yourself. With the walking animation you wanted to make him drag the sword like he has trouble with it.
With the attack you want him to swing it without effort.
I imagine the sword to be rediculously heavy so it'd be pointless to try and carry it in the air.
If he could wield the sword effortless, carrying it around would not be a big problem.
Don't you think carrying a sword like that off the ground while walking would waste a lot of energy needed to lift a sword of that weight?
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The stall definitely adds some impact to the swing. I think it would be better though if rather than drawing out the same frame, he stretched a bit more, extending his legs, with the sword held behind his head, to give it some thrust. I'm still not sold on the simultaneous step and swing.... I think the foot should at least land first.
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Don't you think carrying a sword like that off the ground while walking would waste a lot of energy needed to lift a sword of that weight?
Think about it like this. When we see the actual sprite he is, in fact, in combat. If it was me (even if the sword was ridiculously heavy) I would rather be somewhat tired but ready for anything, than refreshed and unprepared. And as I said, if he has actually mastered the sword, carrying it above ground would not be a big issue for him.
This looks a lot better by the way ;D
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2dv20yq.gif)
I'm still not sold on the simultaneous step and swing.... I think the foot should at least land first.
Have you ever even touched a real sword? Swordsplay is not a step-by-step matter. If i couldn't step and swing simultaneously, my opponent would have time to cut my legs off. If you lift your sword then takes a step and then makes a swing you leave yourself wide open. Not to mention that the power of your attack comes from the movement of your whole body, not just the arms.
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I'm still not sold on the simultaneous step and swing.... I think the foot should at least land first.
Have you ever even touched a real sword? Swordsplay is not a step-by-step matter. If i couldn't step and swing simultaneously, my opponent would have time to cut my legs off. If you lift your sword then takes a step and then makes a swing you leave yourself wide open. Not to mention that the power of your attack comes from the movement of your whole body, not just the arms.
Don't talk to me like I'm an idiot. :mean: Try swinging a sword (any from your fantastic collection of real swords that you touch will do just fine) down to the ground from behind your head, like in the animation, and lunge forward BUT DON'T let your foot touch the ground until the tip of the sword does. Then tell me how natural it feels. Of course "the power of your attack comes from the movement of your whole body, not just the arms," so why would you balance on one foot until your attack lands? :-\ I'm not saying he should step.....wait....swing, for that would be STUPID, but rather, I'm suggesting the step take place DURING the swing rather then on the exact same interval of time.
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I did not really mean to offend, sorry if it came out that way.
unge forward BUT DON'T let your foot touch the ground until the tip of the sword does....
...so why would you balance on one foot until your attack lands? Undecided I'm not saying he should step.....wait....swing, for that would be STUPID, but rather, I'm suggesting the step take place DURING the swing rather then on the exact same interval of time.
I see where you're getting at. However, when we make these kinds of swings during training we aim to begin and end the swordcut and movement of the feet at the same time. The closer, the better.
Simply because it's supposed to be one move, not two moves happening at the same time.
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(http://i32.tinypic.com/10o47bo.gif)
I tried adding a bit more to the stall to give it motion rather then just a copied frame.
Cape got some motion, but I planned to re-do it since it doesn't stay the same length in any of the frames.
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When I pretend to swing a gigantic sword like that, I plant my backward leg firmly to the ground, and push the rest of my body forward; thus causing my frontal leg to jump farther forward. In your animation his body acts as though he is swinging it horizontally; planting his frontward leg firmly to the ground,
and turning the rest of his body in coordination with the sword (that is, if he was actually swinging it in a horizontal arc); causing his backward leg to swing forward.
When you swing something large and heavy in an arc over your head, you lunge forward; like you're trying to push something
(in this case you'd be pushing the sword away from you for, again, the most efficiency) EDIOT : The momentum of the sword pulls you forward. :B :
In your swing the opposite happens. At the end he pulls back; this would lessen the power, and also make the sword look like a big balloon.
This being said, you got the first part of the swing (where he's pulling the sword towards him) right on the money.
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I have a suggestion to when he lifts the sword. I was gonna show an edited animation but ImageReady weirded out on me, making the animation grey and black only. :-\
Here's the frames I changed anyway.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/mr_norris/1.gif)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/mr_norris/2.gif)
Since the sword is supposed to be very heavy having him hold it perfectly horizontal breaks the illusion of weight.
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(http://i30.tinypic.com/2zrgxfp.jpg)->(http://i30.tinypic.com/2zrgxfp.jpg)
Like so?
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I haven't been too actively working on my own stuff lately; I'd like to, but it seems I mostly don't ahve the time...
anyways, a few things i've done here:
(yes, i know it's a crappy edit.)
(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/903/2zrgxfplg9.gif)
The thing is going to be heavy. The best thing i can say, to get a better idea of how a heavy swing should look and feel, swing a baseball bat in front of a mirror. try to stop yourself midswing (and please! don't break the mirror! i don't want to be held responsible if you damage any of your property!) you'll notice that you can't just stop it - there's a little bit of a rocking motion due to the momentum.. Now there won't be as much if you swing something light, like a stick or an empty can of pringles.
so whenever there's a break in the motion of the sing, i had it 'rock' a little bit on the swing preparation, and when it hits the ground.
I've also increased the timing on a few of the frames - specificaly when he reaches a full crouch, and inciden
I've also added a bit more 'blur' when there is a large motion. This is purely my opinion speaking here, but i think it makes the motion look a wee bit smoother.
further emphasizing the heft of the blade, and for increased dramatic effect i've icreased the size of the 'splash' when it hits the ground.
Other than that i don't have much i can offer :\
A couple things i would reccomend doing, which I didn't do here is have the blade land flat on the ground. This has no real life basis, i just think it would look cooler :P The other thing, i'd ahve his cape flare up a bit due to the impact, for increased dramatic effect.
one more thing - on the second frame of the part where his sword is behind him, i'd ahve his front leg lift off the ground a bit. not too much or it seems goofy, but i think it would make it look as if he were putting a little more 'juice' in the swing.
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I really hope you take all the advice being given, Souly, as there is some good critique in this thread, but your piece doesn't seem to be following it(as far as I could tell). It seems you're still going the same route you came into the thread with(though not to say you haven't changed some things, as you have...just not the more important concerns). I could repeat what has been said a couple times, previously(weight of sword in contrast to using it to attack, awkard attack poses, strange walk pattern, etc.), but I won't.
When I see the idle still, I'll agree it's not that intimidating. He does look quite average, and out of place with a big sword like that, in his hands. Speaking of hands, they look strange. I would always think they should be positioned differently, but I'll probably get barraged with some bull-poop over proper stances, and hand placement, and blah, blah. Just looks awkward to me, is all. I was thinking maybe a more open stance, such as this, may be a bit better for this particular character and his weapon of choice:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/TheBoBslow/soulystill.gif)
Also, I'm hoping the colors of the piece will address my future concerns, as every hue in this palette is getting mixed in with other places on his body. Style is a good thing sometimes, but can also sometimes blur the line between cool looking, and technically flawed. Don't let this piece be one those bordering that line. As the above edit shows, maybe a grey, or more blue-ish hue would be best, if it really is chain mail he's wearing. And the shirt portion, may be best as a loose tunic, or something...ok, so that's more from a design's opinion, and not technical. But I just feel his design is strange.
Also, on the walk frame, it looks more comedic, then serious. He looks like he's taking small bursts to tug at that huge sword. Instead, I would think that his stance would be more open, his walk more serious, and calm; Calm in the fact that he knows he has a huge ass weapon, and there's no need to rush at his opponent, or be too tedious. It's length gives him enough reach to get the job done. So a more stern, crossing of the legs may be fitting for a walk cycle. Here's an example:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/TheBoBslow/soulywalk.gif)
...I don't know, I just think this piece can be so much better. You definitely have the potential to do it, Souly, it just seems like your backing into a corner with excuses. Why? I'm not sure, as there are some really good suggestions coming your way. I'm not bagging on you or your piece, and I'm not trying to be a prick either. I just hope some of this gets through, as what's there still needs more adjustments, in my humble opinion.
*animated ver. of sword swing pending...*
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Wow, Corsair. :O The little wobble you added to the animation made a world of difference! :y:
Awesome edit The B.O.B., but one logical error caught my attention: his left hand (our right) needs to be gripping the hilt from underneath. Right now he's holding it like an oar.
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(http://i32.tinypic.com/208zk47.jpg)
I really like the idea of the tunic thing, it really helps cover all that emptiness.
Your helmet and shoulder pads are awesome, I think those are the two things that influenced the update.
The legs are still under construction.
I think I like this sword design as well.
I think I'm going to re-do the attack as well as the walk animation.
Now that I have completed most of the animations for both of them I'm sure I can work out the kinks first in a wire frame before I even add all the detail.
I really don't want to change his stance.
His stances are going to all be based on where his sword is.
So his attacks will be limited since he can't maneuver it around, only swing it in one direction until it hits the ground.
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The thing is there doesn't seem (to my relatively untrained eye, at least) to be anything GLARINGLY wrong with it, but a whole lot of little niggling details.
another thing, and i'm not entirely sure why I didn't key into this while i was editing it, but the crouch seems rather a unneccesary gesture. It would work well as a crouch on it's own, or a lead in to a crouch attack, but the more i look at it, the more it seems out of place.
Here's another crappy little edit showing an alternative:
(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6185/2zrgxfpha3.gif)
I'm going to go ahead and apologize for how badly i've butchered things...
I've *attempted* to give the impression of a lean. it's probabl noticable, but most noticably, i've removed the crouch, and put a couple of transitions between the view of the edge of the blade and the flat; the forward leg i tried to have it look like it was rearing up but because i'm too lazy to do a quality edit, it ends up looking like crap.
but I don't think i'd be terribly difficult to work these things in should youchoose to do so, this is, after all, just my 2 cents.
Overall, I like your redeisgn, but i think i like the original sword design better.
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the crouch seems rather a unneccesary gesture
I'd disagree. The crouch made sense. Generally, when I try to pick some up, and realize it's heavy, I tend to crouch down instinctively so I can use my legs for much of the lifting, instead of my back. Lifting the sword looks too effortless without the crouch, to me at least.
Edit: Maybe a bit less of a crouch would be better though. In any case, you should do something to make it look heavy when he's lifting the sword. The extra bit of wobble in Corsair's edit definitely works, though, especially in his latest edit, it looks like the sword is nothing as he lifts it up, so it's conflicting to see the wobble after he lifts the sword so effortlessly.
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Souly is this for a game?
If not, maybe you could have a long animation. Like break lifting the sword up into steps like weight lifters break lifting the weight into 3 steps. I'm coming from the standpoint that if its that big and its made from a heavy material, you couldn't swing it fast like a normal sword (maybe its for ceremonial purposes?)
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EDIT:
(http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6696/broadsword1rw2.gif)
- Re-did crouch completely
- Tweaked sword angles (removed spin, just a personal preference)
- Increased wind-up for swing
- Added more motion blur to sword better connect frames
- Smoothed out body motions
- Made the footing consistent
Hope you find this helpful. :)
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Hey, great topic, I can add, since lots of the crits seem to be related to the impression of weight, here's a use of timing/spacing to help convey the weight of an object, the green ball is heavy and has an even spacing/timing, while the blue ball changes speed more
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c37/deetech/ball.gif)
but how that applies to the sword and your guy.....
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Maybe this is just me but if there was going to be a motion blur on the sword shouldn't the whole thing kind of lose some detail due to the blur? I think B.O.B's edit really helped you with the design of the character, can't wait to see him in action. Also you might want to just block out the colors for you animation. No point in doing all that fine pixel pushin' when it doesn't fit into the animation.
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hey
I really like the illusion of power/strength and weight given in Corsair edit, and the look of The B.O.B.'s edit. I also like what has been done in tehwexxl0rz's edit.
Anyhows incase you decide to have a walking animation alike The B.O.B. has done I wanted to point out that I don't think a warrior would ever cross their legs alike this, as when you do you can be much more easily pushed over.
BTW, I still think the handle needs to be longer/larger :P, I mean imagine trying to lift a sledge hammer or those big heavy crowbars (long with pointy end for digging or something) with such a small handle.
Umm, I can't think of anything more atm, but yea I advise ya look into and apply what can be learnt from these edits :).
cyas
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I actually made a to scale model of this sword at work today using cardboard and hard plastic to surround the cardboard.
It's light as fuck and the air kind of takes it, but I think it's going to be very helpful for me.
Once I go in tomorrow on my day off cause I left it there...
I'm going to do a bunch of attacks and take frames of each one so I can see exactly what it is I'm doing wrong.
There has been a lot of critique and edits all which have been given time into.
I will be re-reading all of your nit picks while I re-do the animation, I have no doubt all of this information will help plenty since it's been working so far.
I'd also like to mention that up to this point I had been doing everything in MSPaint->Convert to gif using IAZA.com->Toss the files into Unfreeze.
So I'm sorry that a lot of your critique had been passed by since I had been doing it such a hard way.
Finally got Graphics Gale working again so animating should go smoother.
I'd like to thank you for all the input and it motivates me to do better. :D
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(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1968/swordattackuw4.gif)
:crazy:
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I can fix this
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6907/gunedityd8.gif)
win
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Needs muzzle flair if you're going to go that direction.
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All of these swords still look very light. This being that the source of power doesn't exist.
by source of power I mean his legs; there is no possible way his legs could be contributing to the power of the swing, because right now all they do, in all of the edits, are just balance. When, in reality, you would use your quadriceps to push your body forward to swing in the same arc as the sword; you'd be using the same method of force you would when jumping forward. The leg that is not pushing you forward is following the flow of the body, but at the end of the swing it catches the otherwise imminent fall.
I'd make my own edit, but I can't open the any of the files because ggale says that the color table is empty. Bleh I'm too lazy.
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Save the animation and then batch convert (File - batch conversion - input the colourtableless .gif - output a .gal - click "convert") and all will be well. I think.
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(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1968/swordattackuw4.gif)
:crazy:
This gets my vote as the most believable attack edit posted so far.
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if this is a game, it absolutely has to have amazing sound effects. just looking at these animations, I can already hear the sword swooshing through the air and smashing into a brick floor.
it would be cool to have more realistic ideas to it, like when he is finished swinging the sword and he brings it back, it should pull him with the sword a little and maybe have him stumble on some occasions.
(such inspiration in ico and shadow of the colossus)
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Evil eye, I like the cape motion a lot more in your version.
Kinda seems like it just flaps up though, no real motion.
(http://i30.tinypic.com/2ecg5sh.jpg)
Did a bit more, fixed up the legs and the boots.
Also added a bit to the cape.
I ended up building a sword like this so that I can do this animation and all the others with references.
To be honest I've worked on the sword more then I have any of the animations. :(
(http://i29.tinypic.com/34y4oar.jpg)
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I agree the crouching is unnecessary... why? Because it serves no purpose. He just crouches and then gets right back up... now it might serve a lot more purpose if he crouched and pulled the sword up with his body... but that seems unnatural for a sword swing.
Sardone definitely went in the right direction with his animation... I just think it leads a little more pause before he swings his sword. Remember, he has to put all his weight and strength into bringing that huge sword over his head.
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Are those hockey sticks? Awesome.
Shouldn't you be figuring out HOW the man swings his ginormous sword before pinning down and cleaning up a starting frame, though? I mean, the frame you've got in the above post is stunning, but I get the feeling that any movement starting at that frame would be awkward. I could be mistaken, though.
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Are those hockey sticks? Awesome.
Shouldn't you be figuring out HOW the man swings his ginormous sword before pinning down and cleaning up a starting frame, though? I mean, the frame you've got in the above post is stunning, but I get the feeling that any movement starting at that frame would be awkward. I could be mistaken, though.
It's cardboard and plastic.
The handle is wooden.
It's funny my room mates want me to pad it up so I can vs them in duels.
(http://i26.tinypic.com/qwx2eb.jpg)
Thus why I made the sword.
I'm practising all kinds of moves, I know the sword isn't as heavy as a real thing.
But it will help me for proper frame positions.
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Evil eye, I like the cape motion a lot more in your version.
Kinda seems like it just flaps up though, no real motion.
That wasn't my edit.
I was seconding Sardone's edit. Sorry for the confusion :blind:
The sword swing was the part I liked, didn't really notice the cape.