Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: inarma on January 19, 2008, 08:14:05 pm
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Ok, I'm new here and I'm here because I wanna get better at pixeling, because I really wanna make good sprites. So anyway I'm trying to make a character for my game, and the game is isometric, so just keep that in mind. Anyway I'm working on the main characters portrait so far, and I have no clue how to shade or whatever. I'm pretty happy with how his eyes turned out though :) So here he is please help me make this guy get better, if you could like post a good pallete for his hair or skin and kinda tell me how to use it that would be great. So here is the portrait:
FIRST: (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5086/characterportraitsl7.png) -->OLD:(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5558/characterportrait5pv6.png)-->NEW: (http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8075/char5gw1.png)
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Let's take a look at some faces from popular franchises as a way of seeing what people who are good at what they are doing do:
(http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08030/references362.jpg)
Now, none of these represent particularly impressive art, but they are very well suited to the task at hand - appealing to RPG gamers/anime watchers AND being fundamentally grounded (in design).
this to look at :
Contrast - they all have it by the pound. Even disgaea, which stays away from the dark range, hits you (BAM!) with highly saturated colors that jump without really needing black. It's also about local contrast - most of these go from their brightest to darkest quickly at the places they want you to look - eyes mostly. The quickest transition from light to dark is always the outline, and yours has it in the hair, which is not where most people want the attention drawn.
Consistency - if one tihng is lit from one angle, so is everything else, pure and simple. each line is handled in a similar fashion, or if not, the change is for a reason (FFT has a strong face line and a soft hair line because, well, hair is soft). Suikoden avoids lines in the hair almost entirely for the same reason, using fine strokes where necessary. The colors are almost always from the same palette.
More to follow....
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I'd suggest sketching out your portrait first, scanning it in and working from that. If you don't have a scanner and photoshop, then it still doesn't hurt to plan on paper and colour in with whatever you've got on hand (markers, pencil crayons, etc) since I'm assuming you don't have a wacom pen. Usually I'd sketch out my characters, and only start pixeling them when I'm happy with their design. I would also throw some colours on quickly over my sketch to work out the character's own colour scheme prior to any pixeling (whether it be a portrait or the sprite). It's always best to map out and plan things beforehand then just jumping in and wondering what's a good palette to use. Also keep in mind that your sprite may (should technically) have a colour limitation of like 16 colours (15+transparency). While your colour splashing sketches don't need to be those 15 colours only, it's good to keep in mind to use those colours as bases so you'll have some consistency between sprite and portrait.
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Yes I guess you are right Schu, planning out my portrait would help, but I'm a terrible drawer...it would take me a really long time to sketch out my portrait, also whats a wacom pen? I'm like 13, I don't have good art tools. Oh yea that reminds me I pretty much only use paint.NET.
@Adarias
I think having some consistency would help my portrait a lot, and how would I add contrast to my art? Is it like uh making your colors more dark/light than the base color? Uh, I think thats what contrast means....
Ok, well I edited my sprite kinda adjusted my face so it looked a little better, and I'm trying to figure out how I would color the hair still, I just don't know where to begin or how you can make it look like the character has strands of hair. Anyway here is the image, I kinda blacked out his neck in purple cuz I'm gonna work on that last.
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6199/characterportrait2ob4.png)
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hey
I done a bit of an edit to try help.
(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6686/characterportraitsl7edipu8.png)
Basically I tried to better define the light source, and try change the tone of the skin. I usually like to try shift the hue from a yellow to redish/purple color as it gets darker for skin. BTW, my edit can probably be improved a great deal more, and it might not be the best example either, but it's something.
You could probably reduce the colors a bit also, well I think I might have added a few or something, not sure exactly.
edit
One thing I forgot to mention, is that I don't think it's the best idea to pixel on a pure white (really bright), or pure black (really dark) background. I think it makes it hard to keep the colors and such balanced or something.
cyas
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(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6199/characterportrait2ob4.png)
On this image, where does the neck connect to the head? If you were to draw a profile of the same character where would it go? Show us the underlying structure. Why does he have a gray streak on top of his nose? Is the mouth properly placed on the lower right part of the face? You are drawing symbolically and not realistically. It would pay to look more at real people and reference them.
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@yosh64, thanks for the help that sprite really helped...and nice crits.
@helm, lots of questions uh, well as I mentioned before I'm not really working on the underpart of his body I said I just sorta like "blacked" it out to show I wasn't working on it, when I start working on the neck and sholders I'll answer your question. And what do you meen by underlying structure. Uh the gray streak is because I have no idea how to color and I though it sorta showed like a highlight, I know its dumb but I;m terrible at shading and I barely know what I'm doing. And yea I don't get whatcha mean by drawing symbolically....but well I'll take your advice on the looking at a human to refrence for my drawing. Your crits should help me see what I'm doing wrong at least ;)
(http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/236/characterportrait3sj5.png) <-Not very different, lol....
Also just a question how do you make that strand effect like the characters above in Adarias's picks. See FF sprites.
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Whoa whoa, man, hold up a sec.
The point of an edit isn't for you to just take it and work on that, the point is so that you can look at it, see what they did and more importantly why. If you just take it like some random gift you aren't going to actually learn anything. Ask yourself: Why did he use that color? Why'd he put highlights and shadows where he did?
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hey
Yep, and I think you should also listen to helm. If I interpreted correctly, then I think he is saying for example that a mouth is more than a line under the nose, you must think about the form/structure, and the function of the mouth.
One thing I strongest advise you to think about, is the way light hits an object.
Anyhows I think you need to eventually figure your own way of things, as the way I have done things is certainly not the only way. If a hand full of artists each done their own edit, then I think each would be vastly different ;). Hmm, although I think this becomes harder after looking at someones elses edit :\.
cyas
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I see whatcha guys are saying, but I didn't want to continue to hair because....well I wanted the hair to look more uh stringy, and uh I took ur sprite because I liked how you made the under body part type thing, and the face looked cool but I edited that up a little bit, I see what you guys are saying, but I was happy with the way the face was shaded, and as I said before I really didn't wanna start working on the body unti the upper parts were complete, so I still have the question I had before: How do you make that strand effect like the characters above in Adarias's picks. (See FF sprites) So yea, I'm kinda waiting on that question to be answered, and yea I thing my lineart is kinda weird for what I'm asking, but it'll make sense later ;)
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I don't know how to answer your question because your question rests on strange hypotheses. What is 'stringy' hair? Why not start with doing lots of different hair studies from photos and real people and you'll see there's no specific technique we can teach you here. If you want stylised cookie-cutter anime hair read a 'how to draw anime' book.
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Umm, when I mean "stringy hair" I mean like this sprite here: (http://powet.tv/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/final_fantasy_vii_advent_children_postcard_02.jpg). And uh I just edited my sprite, and it looks a ton different than before. And I kinda drew some lines to sorta show where each "section" of hair is.(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4201/characterportraitec2.png), and uh I just kinda wanna know to to make that effect.
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That's not a sprite, it's a 3D render ???
Also, I think you're going about this the wrong way. Your 'dither' lines in the hair just make it look messy and not at all like hair.
Of course, the best way to make hair is study real hair, identify what makes it look like hair, and draw that. But since it seems you are none too interested in doing things the slow way, I'll tell ya' something else.
I dug up some stuff from FFT, it's pretty good examples of how you can make hair look good and stringy with pixel art.
(sorry for the huge images, too lazy to separate. from the sprite sheets.)
(http://sdb.drshnaps.com/sheets/Misc/Square/FinalFantasy/FinalFantasyTactics/Classes/MaleSquire.png)(http://sdb.drshnaps.com/sheets/Misc/Square/FinalFantasy/FinalFantasyTactics/Classes/FemaleCalculator.png)
Miss calculator uses simple segmentation. The slight wavyness and soft transitions from segment to segment work to make it look more like hair.
Now, the Squire there, well, he's got a slightly more interesting methodology :).
Square Soft put highlights around the dark parts where the hair splits into different groups. What this does, far as I can tell, is make it look more "stringy" without actually trying to draw individual hairs.
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Square Soft put highlights around the dark parts where the hair splits into different groups. What this does, far as I can tell, is make it look more "stringy" without actually trying to draw individual hairs.
I always thought it was to make up for the natural non-clarity of the television - by increasing local contrast they make the line sharper and more visible even when blown up, blurred out and seen from across a room. your guess though is actually as good as mine.
try to think about adding some character to this before you think about things like how to do the hair. Once you know his attitude, it will be ovious what to do with the hair. here are two quick sketches:
(http://xs124.xs.to/xs124/08061/img_1694186.jpg) to yours : (http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4201/characterportraitec2.png)
see how the choices make a difference? long nose versus shorter, looking up or down, slick hair or messy, hard face or soft, dark eyes or light, etc. your guy is sorta lacking personality right now. He just looks like a shy little boy, which i know is the character that some people go for, but it turns out that characters which are not engaging are, well, non engaging :P.
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Ok, I see what you are saying Adarias and Sherman, very helpful posts I'm gonna get to work right away!! I'll edit when I'm done with my sprite.
Ok, I'm done its not very good but I think it has better shading an a tad more character:
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5558/characterportrait5pv6.png)
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the hair is much better but still needs some work. Maybe try and add a neck and broaden the shoulders a bit. look at the photo of cloud, do his shoulders go straight down on a 45 degree angle like yours do. Try and broaden them up a bit.
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I thing that what you are doing wrong is not showing any forhead. also the mouth is really close to the chin, wich makes it look like he is tiliting his head down. then the nose is one a side view, wich kind of contradicts that, and then the no forehead thing make the head tilt back down. it its really complicated to look at!
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Umm, thanks 'I am uh' I think your right the hair does need some work :), and Kazuya Mochu, I see what you are saying about the nose but other stuff I'm just confused about.
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Ok, I have finally found out what I want to base my character off of, its this sprite here: (http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7020/characteraki4.jpg) I really like the way the hair, body, and pretty everything about it, I was hoping I could get some tips on how I can make this character into a 64x64 sprite... Soooo I'm gonna start to get to work on making it. Hopefully I can get some help quicker now and I hope people see what I mean by the hairstyle I want...
Thanks,
Inarma
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This isn't a sprite, it's someone's drawing. And if you didn't draw it, why base your pixel head on it? You'll learn much more if you devote your time on learning to draw like that.
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I don't understand what's so important about creating this head for you, surely if you're intentions are to better yourself artistically so why not do what has been suggested time and time again and get drawing for yourself, try to understand why things look the way they do. The point isn't to just to settle on an image to be transfered into pixel-art, you want to learn how to punch before you take on Muhammad Ali, so to speak. Learning curves vary, but the only way to better yourself is to start from what you know and the rest will reveal itself to you. No one here would ever advise you to plonk an image of the web to copy, because it's its just bad practice and all in all you aren't achieving anything.
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Uh...I got that sprite because well Adarias told me to like plan out your artwork in a sketch, and to put attitude in your work so, I guess I just found a sketch that I liked and wanted to model my artwork after it, whats so wrong with trying to learn what style you want to draw by looking at your favorite style and trying to draw it? Sorry about all this trouble I'm not very bright when it comes to spiriting and most of this is all new to me. So maybe I should make my own sketch and then draw down my work, that way I'm learning how to draw myself not using what other people have already done?
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So maybe I should make my own sketch and then draw down my work, that way I'm learning how to draw myself not using what other people have already done?
That's exactly what they're trying to say.
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Ok, lol coulda just come out and said it :) I would taken that :P Now I gotta get started on drawing my sprite, I don't think I have a scanner so you guyz might not be able to see my drawing...sorry.
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They did say that. Stop calling everything a sprite.
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Well A sprite is termed as a small bitmap image intended to be used in a game, Im guessing that doesn't just mean as in a 'small playable character'. Does that include all characters, monsters/animals, chararacter portraits, objects and tiles?
Ah well we're not helping atall, inarma's here for art advice not an English lesson, call it what you want just keep getting those ideas down.
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I'm sorry Terley, that wasn't a very constructive reply.
Inarma, your innapropriate overuse of the word "sprite" to denote anything you or anyone posts makes it incredibly confusing and frustrating for these kind people to help you in your endeavour to create a character portrait. In the context of this forum, a sprite would be a piece of small pixel art (a character, tile, HUD piece, (perhaps even a portrait, yes) etc.) that is to be placed in a larger piece (ie. a game or mock-up). Other than the portraits you've made yourself, the references you've been posting have been drawings and 3D renderings, images, pictures, but not sprites by a long shot. For everyone's sake, please try and use more accurate terms.
As far as drawing your own references, this is not being suggested solely for the purpose of pixelling it, but to improve your art skills as a whole. While this is indeed a pixel art forum, it is definitely still an art forum. Helm is recognizing that (as he has in many people) before you do this portrait, or any other pixel piece, you may want to step back and try drawing some of these things on paper, to know what you're looking for, to practice your grasp of forms. If you simply try to convert someone else's art to pixels, art that they have spent years learning to do, you won't be learning anything yourself, and will end up with a less than satisfactory result.
So, yes, please try drawing for yourself.
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Lol, ok guys don't know what the big fuss is about me using the term sprite, lol I guess I just got into the habit because I use gamemaker and their graphics folder is called sprite so instead of saying graphics now all I can say is sprite, sorry if it was confusing you ;) Anyway in other news I did start to work on drawing my sprite out by hand and it turned out terrible, so I just started like a blank document in the computer and started to kinda draw things out in there and I sorta liked it. I didn't touch it up or do much to it but its a start. I'm sorry about being so stubborn with drawing things its just I cannot draw to save my life and I'm pulling clumps of hair out of my scalp each time I mess up so yea I think I'm gonna stick with pixeling thank you very much :) Uh, heres the sprite I sorta whipped together. Tell me what you like/dislike.
(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3692/char2lb1.png)
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I'm sorry about being so stubborn with drawing things its just I cannot draw to save my life and I'm pulling clumps of hair out of my scalp each time I mess up so yea I think I'm gonna stick with pixeling thank you very much :)
Inarma, what others are trying to point out is that getting better at drawing is key to improving at pixelling. Pixelling IS drawing, except that you're restricted to a grid. In that sense it's *harder* than regular drawing. Consequently if you discipline yourself in traditional art skills you will find your pixelling skills atronomically increase. If you try to simply pixel something without first learning the fundamentals of art and design, your work will cave in on itself like a house with no foundation. There is no "trick" to what you're trying to do, you have to study and practice, just like a guitar player. And if you're unwilling to do that then you won't be able to find any help in improving your work, because there's not much we can do to help you.
Yes, it is frusterating to develop good draftmanship skills. But it's perfectly doable. Just like musicians, the people who get good at it are the ones who care enough to practice every day and to study the masters. Adarius and Helm are both excellent artists but if you look around a bit you'll find that they are both excellent and disciplined traditional artists as well. I can assure you that any other pixel artist whose work you admire has a similar background. This is a necessary step, and all it takes is determination.
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I'd like to show you how I would approach doing an rpg portrait and why sketching is important.
step 1. Ditch anime. The abstract faces are too hard (at least for me). This is okay because there are RPG's like final fantasy X that are realistic. Look at Wakka's head. Thats what I'd try to make.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Wakkaface.jpg
step 2. Google "japanese boy band". A big thing about 'most' rpgs i think is they have cool hair and are japanese. Get a reference like this:
http://yeinjee.com/asianpop/tag/asian-celebrity/chinese-celebrity/ariel-lin/
step 3. Copy those pictures a few times. If you dont have a reference when you draw it can look retarded (top left). Draw a few until you got something with a correct angle that will look good for an rpg portrait. eg. 2nd from top is looking to the right which is wrong, the one on the bottom is seems boring nomatter what accessories i give him, the one on the right looks okay. Its better to make mistakes at sketching stage because its much quicker than pixelling.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/sharprm/sketch2.jpg
step 4. Draw the portrait with black and white only. Keep looking at the sketch because that is your 'map'. This character looks evil. I had to play around with it abit until it looked evil like the sketch.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/sharprm/faces.gif)
step 5. color. This is the part where posting on pixelation would be helpful. But until you can come up with competent line work, they can't help you.
If I didn't get a reference, didn't do some preliminary sketches, it would have looked similar to your latest sprite, which has a boring perspective and unrealistic hair. So I hope seeing the steps help you in future. Can I also suggest making a simple game like frogger. Aim for the skies and all that, but face it, you'll never finish a decent rpg. How can you produce something a team of experts worked on for several months (while getting paid)?
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Lol, ok guys don't know what the big fuss is about me using the term sprite, lol I guess I just got into the habit because I use gamemaker and their graphics folder is called sprite so instead of saying graphics now all I can say is sprite, sorry if it was confusing you ;) Anyway in other news I did start to work on drawing my sprite out by hand and it turned out terrible, so I just started like a blank document in the computer and started to kinda draw things out in there and I sorta liked it. I didn't touch it up or do much to it but its a start. I'm sorry about being so stubborn with drawing things its just I cannot draw to save my life and I'm pulling clumps of hair out of my scalp each time I mess up so yea I think I'm gonna stick with pixeling thank you very much :) Uh, heres the sprite I sorta whipped together. Tell me what you like/dislike.
(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3692/char2lb1.png)
That's actually a good start. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself since you are technically just starting out. One can't expect to be a master pixel artist (or artist in general) overnight. Even the masters themselves had years and years and years and decades and so on of practice and training. Sharprm's advice is sound too.
I would work off of this piece. Just clean up the lines (especially the hair). Try using some lines to create "clumps" in the hair, as per the examples that have been provided in this thread.
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Thanks Ben2theEdge, that kinda cleared things up a bit, sharprm, thanks for the tut in the end you started to go a little weird with the whole "you'll never create a decent rpg" and stuff but I guess its ok I'm used to that kinda critisism, uh thanks sonic_reaper for the encouragement, it was kinda a nice thing to hear after hearing lots of kinda harsh-ish crits.
(BTW: Sharprm, I'm not really in this for creating a great rpg or something I just sprite for fun its kinda a hobby for me, and use my sprites for games.)
(PS: Back to the drawing board....once again....*Huge Sigh* :'()
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I also was introduced to spriting cuze of game maker, i needed to make my own images. Just to let you know that the graphics forum in GMC (game maker community) is the worst by far forum you can ask for sprite help from. They actually TELL YOU to use GRADIENTS. If you are getting help from them, ditch it all. There are a few professionals there, but don't take chances. I know from expereicence, even though i'm not very good.
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About the latest attempt... it's way, way better, but would look even more so with some hair coming out from behind his head. At the moment it sorta seems like the back of his head is shaved.
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Really lol, it looks like that? How can you even see the back of its head, its front view lols?And Mattpk, yea ur right gradients are pretty dumb to use unless its for a cheap background or something, its useful but not for sprites. Also I kinda already know the spriters in the GM is lame and not very good so I kinda chose not to take all their advice. If I do I get it from Luis or LAR...and all the good peoples this place is a lot higher class than GM and its hard getting used to it so I'm being troublesome cuz I don't wanna put lots of time into my spriting. Anyway I'll update the character soon....
QUICK UPDATE: So pretty much I just lowered the shoulder and filled in some colors for the character it doesn't look very good but hang tight I'm gonna start shading....
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/373/char2aw5.png)
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Please do not start shading. There was still so much work needed before putting in colors! You need to really clean up that line art. Maybe even redo it with all that VERY VERY valuable advice, even if you aren't making this for a game or whatever it's something worth the practice. Why have something boring and unrealistic when you can make something exciting and cool? Sure there's more work but you'll notice just about everything else you make will be of higher quality.
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Really lol, it looks like that? How can you even see the back of its head, its front view lols?
He said hair growing from the back of the head, which could be visible depending on the haircut.
I wanted to see if the front on perspective you have can work for an interesting portrait. I thought I'd post it, might help you. ( i changed it to a girl)
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/sharprm/girl-1.gif)
With yours, use a horizontal flip and you'll see it lacks symmetry. Also, draw some design sketches. Is the boy a happy boy? Or is he an unhappy character. Is he fast or is he strong? For instance, if he is happy character, can make him smile, give him bright clothes. If he is unhappy, make his hair messy and maybe mud on his face. You want to think about who the character is as you draw him.
With the girl, I thought she would have armour on the side where she holds her shield and so that side would be the one that would recieve blows (hence the scar on the left cheek). She is often fighting or practising with a sword, so when she isn't holding one, she doesn't know what to do with her hand, hence she plays with her hair.
For yours, right now I feel like he is a normal kid who had his mum dress him. You know, nice clean shirt and armour, and he feels uncomfortable because of this, rather than someone who would survive in a rpg environment (or whatever world your game has).
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Lol, jeez I keep going back to the start don't I lol keep messing up :'( ok but I think I'm gonna try to stick with this guy because I really like how he turned out uh, I'm gonna try to fix what you guys said as best as I can.
Ok, so I edited it a bit, I put some hair to look like he has hair in the back of his head and so that I cleaned up his lines a little bit...and yea I hope thats what you guyz asked for and for some of the things that you guys want me to put in I don't really want for my character like I don't really want him to look rugged or that he would completely fit into some terrible rpg world. I want him to seem more like he is strong, smart, and sorta has been through a lot like he doesn't seem to talk that much and that he has a distant and concentrated look in his eyes, and he's a angry at the people who put him like that....Sorry if thats sorta off topic but thats kinda what I want him to look like if you can help me make him more like THAT, that would help more than trying to make him some crazy barbarian man :P
(http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5750/char2of5.png)
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Pale colors i think will work well for a distant character. If you want to make him look stronger, shift him up a few pixels. The hair is looking better. In your paint program, find a flip horizontal option. When its flipped then flaws become more obvious. Like i think the right side of the head is too wide. Should the armour cover more of the arm (i dont know much about the medieval combat, but i think it should cover area not protected by shield. How old is he?
edit: if its just supposed to be a kid, then try googleing child soldiers. You might find a better expression. For example:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/04/africa_sierra_leone0s_civil_war/img/1.jpg
You could make him frown and lighted from above. Remember to shade as a last step though.
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Ok, got it I'm gonna go do that...or try to.
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Hey, just to let u know even though I'm interested in how to do portraits properly, I actually don't know how to do it - so some of what I say might be wrong or misleading. About the symettry, actually you don't want it. Even with all the crap I added to the girl it looks boring. The deal is you make the body and the head at slightly different angles. Looking at the blue sketch (which I realise now is your reference) this is what he does. So just copy the blue sketch more to improve your pixel art. Try different variations until you get that 'look'. Small eyes and angry looking eyebrows seems important.
Sorry to send you on the 'child soldiers' treasure hunt when u already had a ref, but at least you now(?) know of the fun alternative to living in a western country and doing homework.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/sharprm/kid.gif)
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Lol, thanks sharprm, I kinda like you you folded the edges of the characters neck, and made it look like there was a sorta neck bone type thing, I like urs eyes and stuff too, thanks I kinda based my sprite off of three things actually....one was my first sketch, two was the blue guy, and 3 was cloud...
EDIT: Ok, I am really starting to like how he looks....here he is:
(http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8075/char5gw1.png)
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Jeez, my topic was abandoned no replies in like a week :( Well I'm still working on the character I'll post soon
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i'm going to push the same ideas i have been again - i think the piece is static and overly frontal. please at least consider a more expressive look and a different angle than the perfect mugshot. Also, try to rely less on lines and more on shading, because lines will always leave a flat finish. You can keep the cell-shaded look even when introducing two or three clean values per region.
(http://xs124.xs.to/xs124/08093/shot806.png)
this is not necessarily expressive as it's going for that japanemo look, but i think it's a clear indication.
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Haha, Japanimation. Adarias, the one on the right really looks like a guy I know.
Adarias covered the exact point I was going to share; a frontal portrait is usually boring, unless you are very good at them. the 3/4 view would look a lot nicer.