Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: happymonster on December 22, 2007, 06:41:30 pm
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Myself and Arne are big fans of Julian Gollop's games (Chaos, Rebelstar Raiders, Laser Squad, XCOM, etc..) We would both like to do new games inspired by these kind of games (but in different directions). Anyway, Arne has been sketching out some designs and I've done a few 16 x 16 pixel sprite versions. Altjhough small, I like working within the limitations of this size. I wanted to try do a version of Arne's style with a bit more of a moody 16-bit feel.
Arne has done a great version of a Chryssalid from XCOM: Enemy Unknown and I tried to do a sprite version with a bit more of a realistic style with some top-down lighting. But I've had problems with some aspects of this sprite. Does anyone have any C&C (or edits) which would help me see where I am going wrong?
Arne's Design (Chryssalid on the far right):
(http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/rebelsquad/lineup_chryssalids.jpg)
My darker sprite:
(http://www.funkemunke.com/ls_mockup3.png)
I'm trying to improve my spriting, but feel like I have some 'blind spots', can anyone point out what I've done wrong and how to correct it within these limitations? Thanks!
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The body and legs read well, but the hands are just confusing.
Maybe you should try connecting the fingers to the hand more?
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The problem I found was that if I tried to make the claws more defined they seemed to get in the way of the legs and look attached. Having said that, they probably do need to be redone. :)
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How about this edit? Any better?
(http://www.funkemunke.com/ls_mockup3a.png)
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:y: Mucho better, in my opinion.
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Good. Any idea on how to improve the shading and make it fit the original design better? ;)
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I think you should make the stance less symmetric. Pretty difficult at this size, and I think you did well considering the limitations, but I think it'd be worth a shot. I don't think you should go for the green on the shoulders, it kind of loses the shape of the original. Also I think the spikey things on his shoulders should be longer.
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Ok. I've done a 3rd version, changing the claws, spikes, and the lighting around the head and body at the expense of the shading. It looks too flat to me, albeit a bit clearer. Does it look better?
Old:
(http://www.funkemunke.com/ls_mockup3.png)
(http://www.funkemunke.com/ls_mockup3a.png)
New:
(http://www.funkemunke.com/ls_mockup3b.png)
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I agree it looks a little flat. I think you should keep stomach darker (and maybe the legs) in the other versions, it's just what I like about the original sketch is that he's got that massive solid upper body, and the shading you put at first put on it broke it up, make him seem less menacing. The shading on the stomach would make his shoulders pop more, too. But I do think the new version reads better and I think it fits the original design more.
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I prefer flatter colors myself, moving the belly into the darks can help to give it volume perhaps.
(http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/rebelsquad/happychryssalid.gif)
I'm renaming the images every now and then as I update, so stuff go 404. Here's the...
Rebel Squad project (http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/rebelsquad/rebelsquad.htm)
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On this occasion I have to say I prefer my version. That is too flat for me.. BTW: Nice work on the new rebelstar page, and I love this:
(http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/rebelsquad/screen1.jpg)
:y:
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I think a combo of your and Arne's would be pretty nice. You're trying to stuff a lot of detail into that sprite, but there's only so much the 16x16 space can take before it turns into a mess. Arne's arms and feet are a bit flat, but his torso is a big improvement.
You gonna try any of Arne's other character redesigns?
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I was thinking the same as the Crab Man, hybridization wise.
(http://surtspixels.googlepages.com/happymonster_chryssalid_edit.png)
Left more like yours in weight distribution, right more like the concept in weight distribution.
Kept the specular highlights as they work well to add volume but toned them down some.
Lowered chest and abdomen a pixel.
Used Arne's lower saturation connective tissues.
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They are good surt! Although, I would do the head differently. It's very interesting to see how other people would pixel the same design. So thanks for the help!
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BTW Arne: I noticed you used a purple in your palette there.. ;)
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Well, actually I did the following analyse just for myselft, but maybe it's interesting for someone else.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/markusrosse/pixel/arnespriteconceptanalyse.gif)
The most important thing for small sprites is clarity. Maybe in this order: Shape, Volume, Color identity.
* Arne's pure sprite wins in the shape category, the worst one is surt's. Is mainly because the arms are attached to his body and the legs have nearly no shape-information. Hapymonster's is better, but with more definition at the elbows it would be much clearer (and a rounder neck)
* Surt's sprite as a pretty good volume definition, I think. Maybe it's a preference if you like a full defined volume or just a flat shaded (I think in small sprites it's better to go with flat shaded, but however, preference). Happymonster's have nearly no volume information (imho), but more kind of internal lines (which is a bad thing in this small size imho).
* Color wise surt's and arne's are equal imho (just flatshade vs. fulldef.). I don't know the original sprite (just arne's remake), but I think die hands in happymonster's sprite are wrongly colored (and way to flashy).
That were my thoughts about this sprites. I hope I didn't insult anybody.
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That's very interesting Rosse!
One of the things I know I have a weakness with is the tendency to try to fit too much detail into small sprites. I also become more focused on fitting the original design into a small sprite, rather than adapting the design to fit the size limitations.
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Ok. Here's my latest version taking in the aspects I liked from Arne's and Surt's versions. I also took into account Rosse's approach of Shape, Volume and Colour identity.
I started with Rosse's idea of the shape being the most important aspect, so reduced the old version I had to a 2 colour (black and light grey) version, similar to the ones Rosse posted. I then used Arne's claws as although they aren't as large as in the original design they had a clear one line pixel seperation between the body and the claws. Similarily I used the thinner arms to provide more seperation from the body.
I then decided that Arne's and Surt's positioning of the eyes one pixel further down worked better than my version as it emphasised the almost hunched over position of the original design and looked a little more menacing. I kept the dark outline around the head (very similar to Arne's monochrome version). I decided that this clear seperation of the head from the body is also just as important as the overall body shape in allowing the creature to be easily recoginised. I now had a 2 colour monochrome version of my sprite.
Then I used the darker grey to push the body back away from the viewer and some dark grey on the top of the arms to suggest it was slightly in shadow from the massive shoulder / carapiece. I also added a small amount of dark grey on the bottom of the shoulders to suggest it was curving away from the light. I used the darker grey on the feet in the same way surt & arne did to push the lower legs back away from the viewer.
I used the darkest grey to suggest the segmentation in the body as in the original design, while trying to avoid it looking like a net or dither effect by making the top part of the pattern lead into the outline of the bottom of the shoulders, further empasising the shape outline. I did not use the light orange pixels in the body as in Arne's version because in my opinion the colour is too bright in that dark volume. I did add a bit darker orange pixels to the top of the legs where they angle back towards the viewer and into the light. The darker orange / brown was also used to suggest both segmentation on the arms and a hint of the orange colours in those areas of the original design.
I used a purple on the claws and feet to suggest the colours of the original design, but the colour I used is much lighter than that used by both surt and arne as the darker colour was affecting the shape of their sprites. I softened some of the black around the head while keeping the black adjacent to the eyes to make them stronger, and kept the black underneath the teeth. I then added 2 new colours, a lighter and a darker blue/grey which I used with the existing colours to use a small highlight on each shoulder and a soft one pixel highlight on each claw. In this way I tried to approach a balance between the flatness of Arne's versions, the soft shading of Surt's and my previous higher contrast versions. I also used the new mid-dark grey as a buffer colour for the shading on the shoulders, legs, to anti-alias slightly the top of the head and to emphasise the teeth. Because of the earlier decision to move the eyes one pixel down I had less space to play with for the rest of the head, and so I sacrificied the black line between the teeth I previously had used, while utilising a new teeth design which creates emphasis on that part of the sprite and looks more menacing to me than a 2 x 1 or 2 x 2 white square.
I tried a few different highlights on the head, but had the best results when keeping the head free of shading, which seemed to contrast more with the shading on the shoulders and worked better with the outline.
So overall the new sprite is clearer to 'see' in terms of shape than my previous versions, keeping that part of the design and the outline of the head as most important. While flatter then before in terms of shading it still has some highlighting and so is somewhere between surt's and arne's versions in this aspect. It keeps my tendency towards higher contrast (especially around the head), which might look a little artificial, but does keep the design more readable. In terms of volume it is more better than before thanks to arne and surt's designs and the colours are more subtle and less overpowering too.
Here is the new sprite:
(http://www.funkemunke.com/ls_mockup3c.png)
I've tried to explain what I did and why, so.. what do you think? Is it an improvement, am I getting better?
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Well, despite the lack of feedback I really think this latest version I have done is a massive improvement from my previous efforts. In fact I like it more than all the versions of this from other people, so I will move onto something else now.
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It's the clearest, deffo, but it looks a lot less menacing then the previous versions.
Maybe you could add the mouth back in?
Something like this:
(http://lorne.lastchancemedia.com/Images/TricksandCrits/HappyMonsterLS.png)(http://www.funkemunke.com/ls_mockup3c.png)
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Back from Christmas / New Year Break..
I do like that, but am just not sure about the mouth Sherman. I know that my version might not work for other people, but it works for me. Perhaps I should try other mouth/face designs. But also, I think I should move onto another design when I have the time. :)
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Grave digging post I know. I like the grin sprite. ::)
I read from the webpage, progress is sketchy? Are there going to be two versions?
If I ever make a game def: xcom inspired. I'm thinking a basic storybook rpg engine, which should enable ISO graphics without the headache code.
my concept promo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv44O2n9vq0
battlescape concept: http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6190/testrv0.jpg
??? princess Leia might not appear in the final cut