Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Zenobia on December 03, 2007, 04:11:51 pm
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*takes a deep breath* I admit I am slightly scared to have this torn to pieces, but there's no other way to improve.
Anyway, this is my first ever try at a mockup and it's been great fun, only, I failed with the characters. I'm not really looking for critique on the top part, but those characters down there, they really bug me. I was going for a chibi anime sort of thing, but they just look creepy and awkward.
I'm obviously having a lot of trouble with the hands (and thus arms), so it'd be great if someone could tell me how to fix that (so far people only agreed they need to be fixed, but no one can quite explain how).
And then there's the other things of course like eyes, mouth, depth, the shading of the clothes, the light coming from the magic, etc. I -know- what's wrong, I just don't know what to do about it?
Right, also, the stupid swirls at the bottom are actually the character's names and they're supposed to be a mystery. Just saying, because they've been mistaken for terrible clouds.
Lets' see, what else. I'm also not too happy with the potion bottles and the shading on the kraken, the dithery stuff on the clouds and the big visible difference between the light and dark blue in the dark part of the sky.
I've evidently spent a lot of time on this already, but I've run out of solutions to my problems.
Ok, that should be enough explanation.
edit: and it's not my secret santa ^^; it for the competition thingie by Shonegold at dA, because I needed some distraction anyways.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/QueenZenobia/Pixel%20dolls/art-christmasmockup3.gif)
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the iso bit needs a Lot of Contrast!!
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I think you're terribly underestimating the importance of things like eyebrows, ears, shoulders and noses.
This edit is heaps messy, but it shows what I mean.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/tocky/zen_earsandeyebrows.png)
I also want to do a pallete edit, but I ought to go to bed. I fully expect someone will post a better one than I could do by the time I'm back here tomorrow, though.
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I edited the shoulders, the ears and I tried the eyebrows. Did it work at all? I couldn't create any acceptable noses...
(I could swear they had ears at some point, I don't have a clue what I did to them along the way.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/QueenZenobia/Pixel%20dolls/art-christmasmockup4.gif)
Also, a palette edit is fine, but I do kind of like my icy world as it is...
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Then just make the colors softer on the bottom part :D
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I think the biggest problems with your people is the lack of facial structure, and that the way that their heads are shaded make them look like their heads are coin-shaped.
(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9878/edityg2.png)
smaller problems;
the person on the right's thumb was where his pinky would be O_O
theyhadnonoses-i tried showing a way that would be simple to do ^^
aside from the person on the left's hand's shading, the hands were perfect to me.
the eyebrows didn't read as eyebrows when they were the same color as the eyes.
the lips of the people made it look like they were severely de-hydrated, because they were blue o_o
thats about all ^_^
i really love the clouds on the right :D
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I think you have some serious palette troubles (only one real skintone, ramps that don't work, etc) that you can fix without switching out the icyness...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/tocky/zen-pallete.png)
I shifted the middle cyans and purples so they'd fit next to each other better (in the hair), and also darkened them (not strictly neccessary, but it makes the eyes and hair show up a lot better, the palette needs contrast) changed the hard orange to a darker pink (for skintones) and the darkest blue to a purpley colour (because it's pretty).
(actually, I can see now that the top half of your mockup probably needs that hard orange for its border, I should've held onto the whole picture while I was messing with the pallete. but you need a real skin-shadowtone, as well. Probably it wouldn't hurt to have an extra colour on the pallete.)
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Ah that looks better.
I went wrong with the palette because I did the top part of the thing first. I should have started out the other way around I see.
I'll try to edit when I get back from school.
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I know eyebrows and noses are important and stuff - but I actually think that with the eyebrows they look ugly XD The gilr looks almost angry >_> Maybe it's because the eyebrows are too far down. I'll try to make an edit and see.
As for the hand, I've already made an edit of the girls hand holding the axe (it's an axe, right?) but I know you said it was something wrong with the arm - I promise I will look at that too.
As for the boy's hand. I still don't know how to fix it... Something about it bugs me but I haven't figured out what yet.
The bottles look fatter on the day site O.o
(is his name Pocas?)
edit:
okay, so I went for an edit. I've edited her hand (the old edit) and edited the arm slightly. I've also made a new potion bottle but it looks ugly so you can ignore it XD
I've also added eyebrows and noses and I was evil and edited the eyes a little :P Felt like if I was editing the faces so much could I go all the way instead hehe. Personally do I think the characters get sort of destroyed with the noses... So I went and googled some chibis and noted that half of them don't have noses. So I think it's up to you if you want noses or not.
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/arzosahbsd/zen3.png) (http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/arzosahbsd/zen2.png)
(I've used the new palette btw)
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hey
@tocky: Your first edit really made me laugh, the girl looked so angry, when it's such a day of happiness ;). But yea, I do agree about the eyebrows and such :), just checkout the Mii's on the Nintendo Wii :).
Hmm, I do like tocky's latest edit to the palette :), and how the mouth and such is better defined and the highlights of the hair less bright and such, but I prefer the colors of Zenobia's santa hat :). I also like both tocky's and Zenobia's eyebrows, but I think tocky's latest edit of the girl's eyebrows still looks a tad angry. Also, I don't like arzosah's edit of the girl so much, as I think she doesn't look so inocent :\.
Finally I must say I prefer them without the noses, as I like the clean space and I think they look more inocent or something.
Hmm, I think things look a bit sketchy or something. It's like everything is fighting to be in the foreground, so I think you need to better define the lighting and such, and lose some details or something.
Anyhows I think that's it for now, keep at it :).
edit
I was just thinking, they seem like they are more like taking part in witch craft, rather than christmas miracle sorta things :\. Hmm, and I'm not sure what that rod thing is that she is holding? and if it's a weapon? and if so, then why would she have a weapon on such a day as christmas?
cyas
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I'm still at school, but I've read the comments and I just wanted to add the girl was originally supposed to look a lot more tough. My version ended up far too innocent. I wanted the girl to be the warrior and the guy to be the more friendly mage.
And no arzosah, his name's not Phocas =P Both names include an L, an N, an A and a Y. The girl's name is two syllables, the guy's name is three syllables. You're making progress though haha.
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hey
another edit (changed green guys arm slightly)
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2658/artchristmasmockup4yoshqo6.png)
Well I done an edit... took quite awhile todo, but it's noway near done or anything, but hopefully it gives ya an idea of things.
Basically what I tried todo was give a greater perception of depth. In doing so I mangled the background, I found the background to really clash with the foreground, so I think you need to darken, or redesign it or something as so it fullfills it's purpose to be a background ;).
I also tried to better define the lighting, and removed some details of things for clearity. Well I think you need to be careful with your color usage when it comes to lighting/shading, don't use the same shade for highlights or whatever for things in the foreground and background, as this ruins the perception of depth. Anyhows I hope this makes some sense.
Finally I changed the palette quite a bit, and gave a highlight shade to the red and green and such.
Anyhows I think that's about it.
edit
When I look at the green fellows arm, it looks odd, and looks like it's someone elses arm/hand? So I think you might have to adjust this or something.
cyas
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@yosh64: haha even I don't like my edit of the girl XD I just gave it a shoot.
@Zen: haha well, I'll keep trying to get the names then ;)
Ah, a little thougher then - heh maybe she can look angry then.
I'll make an edit soon. Only have to finish some things and then I'm yours :)
edit:
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/arzosahbsd/zen04.gif)
used a mix between the original palette and tocky's. Changed the girl's face by removing the nose (removed the boy's as well) and gave her more "angry" eyebrows.
Also tried to give a shadow to her dress by using the already existing colours since you, if I remember right, wanted to only use 20 colours (max).
But stopped there since I can't figure our where the light is coming from O.o I want to have the light coming from the light globe the elf is creating buuut... I don't know. The girl and the boy have two different light sources so I'm a little confused.
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yosh: my first edit was really quick and dirty, maybe ten minutes, mostly just as proof of concept, but yeah, the eyebrows clearly didn't work like I had hoped. In any case, eyebrows are still hell of important. No human character should be without them! I will have to do another edit now to defend mah honour.
...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/tocky/zen_eyebrows_1.png)
Far as I know, eyebrows are the most expressive part of the face. An artist does hissaherself a disservice whenever they don't use them.
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I agree with you about the eyebrows, don't worry. I never intended to make them dissappear.
That's a good edit.
I forgot I follow an evening philosophy course, so I can't edit today, but I'll try to put all the pieces together tomorrow, before the Sinterklaas celebration.
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That last wasn't intended as a slight towards you, Zen, really. It was just sort of a general lament, or it should have been. You seem to know what you're doing.
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I take it by those characters that you've played MAGICAL DROP (http://emustatus.rainemu.com/games/mdrop3.htm) then? :-\ A puzzle game who's characters are based on the Tarot cards...
Was that a scythe she was holding on the left... ? looks like death to me? and that one on the right... the fool?
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Magical drop? No... (now I'm curious though).
Currently I'm playing Final Fantasy Tactics Advance... but I started this mock-up before I started playing again, so that's not connected either.
edit: here's what I made out of all the edits
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/QueenZenobia/Pixel%20dolls/art-christmasmockup44.gif)
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I think the ball of energy under his hand should be having a more severe impact on the lighting. Here are some links to pieces which might be helpful references for this kind of lighting:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/25521.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/22402.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/19675.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/19661.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/19305.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/14539.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/12209.htm
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*nods* I know, but I just can't figure out -how- to do it. How do I start to edit that?
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from where you are now, Id start to think, where shouldn't light reach? on the otherside of the hand, leading around the back of the cape, maybe shadow cast from the hand onto himself? and then think where will the light hit directly? as his hand's in the way mostly on the innerside of his hand, giving you the opportunity to shape it considerably. Maybe you could see where the hand does not shadow and hint some lighter areas to suggest change in the shape of the clothing, folds etc and even be daring enough to use some highlights on the face to give it more depth.
Break it down for yourself and imagine what you'd expect to see. With such a close and strong lightsource you can afford to up the contrast since a lot of light is being emitted.
Think the same for the girl too, since she would be effected too.
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*nods* ok, that helps. I'll give it a try.
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It helps to think as if it were a 3D low-poly model. In fact I recommend getting into 3D modeling/technical drawing/draughtsmanship, that's how I learned a lot of what I know about lighting/shadows/reflection. Here's a quick image to help:
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/drain-body-confirmed/zenobia1.jpg)
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hey
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7670/artchristmasmockup4yoshbi7.png)
Well I done another edit, this time with some light coming from the light thingy. I also done some other little things here and there. Anyhows the primary light source is still from above coming down to the right.
What I done was added some more purple shades to the palette, and made some of the shadows around the light thingy purple, and added some lighter purple highlights also.
Anyhows that's it.
edit
I just wanted to mention something when refering to 3d models for lighting. That is to be very careful, as you should only refer to the models that have been rendered properly with shadowing, and not just refer to things strait from the viewport. As in the viewport it's likely that each polygon is rendered independently without knowledge of it's surroundings, and thus you end up with a poor representation of light, without proper shadowing and such. I hope this makes sense, well compare something from the viewport to something that's been rendered properly and you will see.
But yea, the way realtime 3d graphics are usually rendered in games and such today is where by each polygon is rasterized (turned into pixels) independently, so the polygon currently being rendered has no idea about any other polygons that may surround it. Hmm, in a way you could say that the shadows, reflections, and refraction (the way light travels through objects) in games and such are all done by trickery ;).
Although there are other methods for rendering 3d graphics that more accurately represent light, but these are not well suited for realtime applications :\. You may have heard of some of these through the likes of buzz words such as raytracing, and radiosity.
cyas
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The light stuff really helped.
I usually don't have trouble with lightsources but the magic threw me off. Here's another edit (don't mind that hand, I still can't work it out x.x).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/QueenZenobia/Pixel%20dolls/art-christmasmockup444.gif)
edit:
How about this. No right hand!
And by removing all the extra blue shades that crept in with the palette changes I got to add dark red and green and still be at 18 colours, which is 2 less than I even originally started with xP
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/QueenZenobia/Pixel%20dolls/art-christmasmockupfin1.gif)