Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Obsidantion on August 11, 2007, 07:45:48 pm
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(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/RockScene1stEdit.png)
What do you think?
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It looks more like sand then rocks actually. Maybe you need to make it look more cubic :-\
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I dunno, I think it reads pretty well as rocks.
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I actually think they need to look less stretchy, or something like that. But I agree with Sherman Grill.
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they make me think of the funny-shaped rocks from the original black&white, but still rocks. They have funny banding which suggests that they were eroded in horizontal levels; if there is or used to be water there then cool, if not, rethink your texture.
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I'm happy with the texture for now, let’s say they were once on a beach to explain the erosion.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/Tree1stEdit.png) (http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/Tiles.png)
Some sketchy ideas from the same landscape
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The tree seems a bit too symetrical and evenly-shaped to be natural. But other than that, I really like it, the color choice is very interesting.
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I like the palette, but I think the brightest hue should be slightly more bright to be effective, as it is blending with the next closest hue and pretty much going to waste.
The tree is too triangular...I'd say try to make it more round. Also, if you can, try to vary your basis-spheres because at the moment, they all look pretty much the same--especially in size.
I like the rough/desert ground you've got going. I like the top-left square the best, because it is the least repetitive right now...but if you could get either of the bottom ones to look a bit less repeating, I think you would be in business :y:.
As for the rocks: I think they look OK if they are the type you are going for, but the farthest back large one seems out of place, but I can't quite put my finger on it...it might be the triangle shape, the over abundance of the lightest shade, or the outline... but I'm just shooting in the dark right now (way to tired to investigate it further).
Good luck with your stuff, and keep pixelling.
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There's a very strange misconception that many trees are almost solid foliage. How would that work exactly? Only the surface leaves would catch light! Most trees are very airy so that light can penetrate The areas occupied by leaves are only somewhat round, too, they vary in shape tremendously. Imagine that each of your fingers has several more fingers of varying size and they are all covered in tiny leaves; that's much more like a tree than the molecule idea :D
Quick Tree sketch
(http://xs218.xs.to/xs218/07320/Tree2.PNG)
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Thanks for that Adarias, really stylish!
This is better
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/Tree2ndEdit.png)
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still very round and solid, like a styrofoam ball you'ld find in a diarama; find a tree like that in nature and i'll be astonished. Think levels, think airiness, and most of all think smaller trunk.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/Timpac/C%20and%20C/BallTree.png)
"This tree has too many balls in it. How strange..."
The only purpose those spheres serve is to give you a sense of depth and spacial orientation; only partially does it have to do with the shape of the tree. They are representative of individual clusters of leaves which are made up of many other random shapes. The drawing a tree as a huge cluster of spheres is really misleading; this is because it is usually paired with a tutorial that fails to explain why one would draw trees as such.
In any case, Adarias is very much so right. I just thought I'd elaborate on his sketch and give you a visual representation of "correct" leaves versus silly shape trees. It's perfectly fine to stray from realism and make lollipop trees but it looks like you're going for a more realistic approach. It never hurts to learn these things anyways.
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Not to OT too much but doppleganger, the handing of those leaves has a beauty i would marvel at in a finished piece; in a sketch, I am without real words. Trees are a thing which I personally find to be one of the most moving of god's work, so much that I sometimes pull over in my car just to stare and wonder. This is about as close as I have seen a person come in pixel form to capturing that; a thousand miles beyond any of the already well executed trees I've seen you do before too, which is interesting from a learning standpoint (clearly the quick inspired burst suits you better than the mannered and polished method).
It's a rare occurence I'm moved to give such praise without critique so I just had to voice it.
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Yer, Doppleganger's really talented (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=3973.msg53284#msg53284 Adarias will appreciate this blossom tree)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/Tree3rdEdit.png)
Some extra 5 min sketches
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/5MinSketches.png)
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the shape has definately improved, but the other important part is that TREES ARE ALMOST NEVER SOLID. They are made of layers of loose leaves that give only the semblence of solidity, if that!
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/a-tree-grows-in-section-60-december-2006-01.jpg
http://www.blackburn.gov.uk/upload/img_400/Oak_tree.jpg
http://free-textures.got3d.com/natural/free-tree-textures/images/Free-Tree-Texture-111.jpg
http://members.aol.com/doder1/objects/tree.jpg
individual branches, and they have holes. It's not just a lumpy mass with a complete surface of leaves, it's layer after easily permeated layer of leaves that when viewed can sometimes appear to be one mass. Would you draw a hand as a ball? Well, then why are you drawing a tree as a ball? If you do not render them properly, it just won't look as good as it could.
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OT:
Thanks Adarias it means much. If it tells me anything though, it's that I pixel far too many trees. Haha! I guess I, to an extent, share your views on the beauty of trees. Which is probably why they're always finding a way into my repertoire.
not OT:
The latest tree, while better, still exaggerates the sphere tree. Now you've gone and expanded the leaves beyond the spheres but they are still, very much so, part of the spheres. It's better to think of trees and their limbs as fingers, like Adarias said. In fact, I would personally suggest that you draw the tree with just it's limbs first. From there you can add on circular splotches of leaves. I think you'll find that you're much closer to where you want to be with that approach. I was fortunate enough to have an art lesson in elementary school where we drew a leaveless winter tree with black marker and then painted the skyline with cheap watercolor paints. Probably one of the most important art lessons I ever got out of school. Heh.
To round off the critique; I think you need to streamline your colors. They all feel very random in color selection and lightness and hurt the piece as a whole. Individually they're really great colors though. My suggestion, lighten up the 'black', darken the darkest green and put it before the darkest red. Up the saturation in the lighter colors and adjust their lightness so they can contrast a little bit better. Right now your colors look like a desert themed Gameboy Color palette. (GBC only uses 4 colors btw)
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(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/Tree4thEdit.png)
Sorry it's not better but I didn't think starting again from scratch would be worth it
Updated:
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/Objects2ndEdit.png)
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Just got Doppleganger's last post as I was writing this:
Okay, I'll go for that approach and maybe try something new with it just to see how it turns out (maybe on a smaller scale).
I think I can just about comprehend the reasoning behind your ideas with the colours and hopefully, when I adhere to your suggestions, I'll have a greater understanding of what you mean.
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http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/1stMockup.png - Mockup so far with current components
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one thing i'd just like to throw out there is that unless your game will be taking place on a pure white background, I think you might have better luck tuning your colors if you use a darker, maybe mid-gray background. Something closer to what the graphics will be displayed over in-game; what looks to be pretty dark values on white might end up being very middle or even light values on a mid-tone background in-game. Great improvement and efforts so far!
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Look's great, that's about all the geometries needed (could still be a little more broken up, but this is perfectly good as is).
seconded (thirded?) about the colors, but that's an easy change.
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So I went through a few extreme changes with the palette at first, which I'm sure probably is a common mistake for beginners, and I learnt that subtle alterations can have profound effects on an image.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/PaletteChanges.png)
Following Doppleganger's advice best I could
Visit here to see the palette in effect and tell me how I got it right/wrong - http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/1stMockupPalette3.png
(I am planning to redo the tree probably tonight)
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Ops, knew I forgot something.
As to what AdamAtomic said, I would like to change the colours now against this white or the light orange. They may well be changed again later to suit the luminosity of a setting like you said but I’ll just do them again if necessary. Thanks for the comment.
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That's a much better change. Good work.
I went ahead and further exemplified my suggestion by editing the old tree palette a bit. If you'll notice each color builds up both in lightness and saturation. The tree example isn't really spot on as I didn't bother transposing the dark red and green before I messed with the colors.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/Timpac/C%20and%20C/TreeEdit.png)
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Oh right "streamline your colours", I understand now (to cover as many shades as possible by spreading them out evenly).
Okay, is this palette better though?
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/PaletteChanges2.png)
it looks pretty loud but cool (maybe too intense for gameplay)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/1stMockupPalette4.png)
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Wow that tree is really coming along. I like the mockup so far, a lot. That cactus though, even for a quick sketch is far to scratchy in my opinion, but if you are fixing that already.... disregard this :-[.
OT tree talk-
Yes. Trees are one of the prettiest/coolest things. They are all so unique, but they also form together to make a uniform...forest... It's pretty sweet.
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It is a bit loud now. I think some of it might have to do with the loud background color. If you put the BG at a 50% gray you should be able to see just how loud it is. The yellows with tinges of green might not be cutting it. I'd probably pick yellows or greens with a faint hint of the other color for your two brightest colors.
I don't really want to direct you too much though so I'm going to just watch this post from here on out. Not because I don't want to help but because I don't want to have too much influence over your final result. Fabulous work so far, you've really improved it!
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I redid the tree but it hasn't really changed even though I started with the framework this time, I used pretty much the same technique by mistake. I think I'll stick to the one I have already and work on making it more detailed
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/Tree5thEdit.png)
-not better IMO-
Also I think the palette was better here - http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/1stMockupPalette3.png
with slightly less saturation so I'll try to make that more streamlined somehow.
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Here are the two last palettes against a 50% grey as suggested by AdamAtomic and Doppleganger.
My Preferred: http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/1stMockupPalette3GreyBG.png
Latest: http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/1stMockupPalette4GreyBG.png
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Malor, thanks for the comment, I'll probably not use the cactus now because it doesn't belong.
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I like the latest tree best. The palette on your preferred tree is better though. The latest tree just conveys depth a lot better.
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The latest images touch on an important point - the gray looks cold as anything because whole tihng is so damned warm! you literally have nothing to balance the warm colors. Right now it seems pretty fine, but when you put a character in, things are going to get strange. If you mean a character cold, well, that's just funny. If you make him enough hotter than the background to really pop, you'll need to be using MS paint colors..
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Doppleganger: I'm not sure which tree to go with yet, but I like the first one still, probably because of the shape, but if depth is a really important aspect I'll work it into that one more.
Adarias: I didn't even think about the characters. I'll address that issue when the time comes becuase it's difficult to know how it'll look until I have some or one to compare the scenery with.
Here's a house I'm hopeful will become better and I'll want to use:
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/House1stEdit.png)
(I know I've left the lightest colour out and I definately intend on using it)
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unfortunately, that's one of the flattest houses I've ever seen. It's also gigantic compared to the size of the tree. Unless that's a really young tree.
At any rate, I would shrink it down quite a bit and maybe even make a thumbnail of it first. You can use the thumbnail to capture the most basic of shapes and light sources in hopes of creating more depth. I think your biggest problem is you're spreading the colors around too much. The colors, also, don't lend themselves well to the house.
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I really like the colours and I'd like to try and apply them to everything in the game.
That house is bad, I should have spent the time defining the lighting and shadows as well as shape and size, which are much more important then random details. Also It looks too blocky and unnatural.
This is a thumbnail of the house:
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/HouseThumbnail1stEdit.png)
This is a scale tumbnail illustrating the size of the house:
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Obsidantion/ScaleThumbnail.png)
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I just wanted to quickly say, the last few of my threads, including this one, have been for game projects that I am not actually intending to make. They've all been to improve my game art. Just thought I'd make that clear incase anyone was hoping for them. It just dawned on me that I should probably make my intentions known at the start of every thread, so that people know what their help is contributing towards.
Nethertheless everyone's help so far has been excellent for me! Thank you pixelation :)
(and I want to make a small game soon for anyone who wants to play. Probably a board game with AI or something).
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much better on that, though you may want to pull the roof colors out from the leaf colors a tad.