Pixelation

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Panda on June 14, 2007, 11:15:23 am

Title: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 14, 2007, 11:15:23 am
A freshly picked OT thread, all for you, oh la la.
Well, you know how it works, keep it clean, don't spam, behave and all.

As a side note, I declare the previous OT thread the most nostalgic one ever >:0!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: miascugh on June 14, 2007, 11:18:28 am
Mhh, prepacked Döner is not my thing...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 14, 2007, 11:19:40 am
As a side note, I declare the previous OT thread the most nostalgic one ever >:0!
Cuz of all the legos talk right? RIGHT?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: miascugh on June 14, 2007, 11:22:10 am
This is the doner thread snippa, next one to go off-topic will get a strike  !yus!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 14, 2007, 11:24:30 am
This is the doner thread snippa, next one to go off-topic will get a strike  !yus!
fine, kill the thread then! geez.. this could have been a legendary thread for once..  :blind:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: miascugh on June 14, 2007, 11:24:54 am
(http://www.akserdoener.de/images/Koch_startseite.gif)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 14, 2007, 11:28:13 am
As a side note, I declare the previous OT thread the most nostalgic one ever >:0!
Cuz of all the legos talk right? RIGHT?

Yes, and the trading card games, and K-nex and stuff.
But nonetheless, A WINNER IS YOU.

As for prepacked Döner, I've never had any.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 14, 2007, 11:31:01 am
Me either, never heard of it until I read this thread.
I guess it's pretty popular in Germany though. - Döner in general I mean.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: dragonrc on June 14, 2007, 11:50:26 am
I don't like really like doner...I ate it once and i got really sick :0#
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Opacus on June 14, 2007, 11:58:24 am
Gief Japanese food <3
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 14, 2007, 12:37:25 pm
Heh, I can't wait to eat some Japanese food.
Haven't had any proper since like 3 years ago
...but soon >:0!

Also I just got some tickets for the Ghibli Museum, whee.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Gil on June 14, 2007, 12:37:42 pm
(http://www.margaret-marks.com/Transblawg/archives/doen2w.jpg)

Döner kebab owns you!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 14, 2007, 02:04:12 pm
Doner thread... hmm.. well, i didn't think i'd have to part with my kidney so soon... oh man. Well, it's been nice knowing yah, Lefty!

*hara-kiri*

-gack- wait! what? donER!?! I could have sworn he said donOR!

 :hehe:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Mr.Modem on June 14, 2007, 02:44:10 pm
Yay, gotta love kebab...
To all nintendo fanboys here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEQNbPWM4ZM
Pretty funny...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 14, 2007, 04:07:24 pm
awesome find mr modem i LOLd :D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 14, 2007, 06:28:52 pm
What the hell is Doner? Oh, I'm sorry, "Döner."

Lucky Panda, wot, with the Ghibli and all.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 14, 2007, 06:33:09 pm
doner kebab, type of ffood. 

i like kebabs, especially when the're chicken with bbq sauce.

woot on the new thread!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 14, 2007, 06:44:04 pm
Oh yeah, kebabs are good...With like, peppers and...cow, and...like, tofu, and...stuff.

So I'm going on a mission to the foothills of the Sierra Nevada in July, for a week.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Cow on June 15, 2007, 02:14:18 am
Is there any way to change the power of the smear tool in Pro Motion? Like how you can in Photoshop, I believe... I did a quick reading of tfm, but couldn't find any way. Is it safe to assume it's impossible?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Presley on June 15, 2007, 02:17:02 am
Oh god Kebabs. Have meat and vegetables ever come together so harmoniously?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 15, 2007, 02:21:48 am
(http://www.margaret-marks.com/Transblawg/archives/doen2w.jpg)

Döner kebab owns you!
isn't that food really dangerous? I remember seeing some warning about that kebab thing (or something that looks exactly the same) because they just keep piling meat on, and the closer you get to the center, the older the meat gets, usually rotten
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 15, 2007, 06:40:02 am
I guess it depends on the hygiene of the restaurant/stand/whatever, and the clients rate (if they get many, the meat will be gone faster). Though I thought they would simply use those whatever-the-meat-on-a-huge-stick-things-are-called up and replace them for new ones instead of piling more meat, because I'm pretty sure they sell them that way.
But alas, I dont know much about kebab cooking.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on June 15, 2007, 07:52:42 am
I made a typo:

ww.pixel-arts.org (http://ww.pixel-arts.org)

Anyone know what this is about?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 15, 2007, 08:29:07 am
I made a typo:

ww.pixel-arts.org (http://ww.pixel-arts.org)

Anyone know what this is about?
error page?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 15, 2007, 08:40:49 am
I made a typo:

ww.pixel-arts.org (http://ww.pixel-arts.org)

Anyone know what this is about?

i have seen this before, cant remember how i got to it though...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Frychiko on June 15, 2007, 09:20:20 am
First thing I'm gonna do on my trip back to Australia is go eat at the kebab shop a couple of minutes from my house. Best kebabs ever made there.

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Gil on June 15, 2007, 03:11:05 pm
isn't that food really dangerous? I remember seeing some warning about that kebab thing (or something that looks exactly the same) because they just keep piling meat on, and the closer you get to the center, the older the meat gets, usually rotten

If you go grab a kebab 3am in the morning and you get the latest of the roll, it can happen you get some very nasty stomac aches. I have been there :hehe:.

They change the rolls daily here though, people buy that much kebab around here...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Gil on June 15, 2007, 05:38:38 pm
Okay, I'm not going to make a thread and a big fuss out of this, but I'm quitting Pixelation. It's been a great 5 years or so, but it's time to leave now. Panda made sure of that, no one else to thank for this one.

After I stopped posting anything remotely rude, he found it nice to look for my posts that could be rude if you look at them in a sort of way, you know? He was so nice as to PM me again about this issue.

So, he said: "One more time and I'm taking you down". This is this one more time. I'll end it with a nice "Panda, screw you, I don't care about you or your jerk attitude". I hope he has at least the decency not to delete this post, so everyone can see why I left...

Bye bye Pixelation, I loved being here.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 15, 2007, 05:41:09 pm
stay damn u >.<
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on June 15, 2007, 05:43:25 pm
I'm glad we've all learned to talk through our problems  ???
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Gil on June 15, 2007, 05:46:09 pm
You didn't see the shitload of PMs I sent and received from all the mods Adarias, I'm sick of the drama.

BTW:

Quote
Well, if you have anything against how this have been set up, don't vote at all, I couldn't care the less.

Posts like this deserve a strike too if you follow the rules the way you apply them to me...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 15, 2007, 05:52:36 pm
First of all, I don't really care enough about you to try and go find every reason I can to ban you. At times your behaviour makes me think otherwise, but I can control myself.
What I simply don't want is you to act like an ass.
You had enough already, so any minimal jerky act could cost you a strike. Why? because you went too far already.
Yes I saw you tried to change, and I'm happy for that. But all I did this time was warn you.
But heh, if you wanna leave, I'm not stopping you.

Also about that post, I thought I explained what I meant, but ah well. If it makes you feel happy feel free to pick on it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 15, 2007, 05:58:04 pm
Panda made sure of that, no one else to thank for this one.

Shouldn't mods be welcolming members not driving them away.  Losing gil is like losing a limb, he's been here longer than practically all the other members, and i think its wrong that he's been targetted with strikes and postal deletion.  Gil quite obviously cares about this community and pushing him away because certain people mis-interpret his posts is quite frankly a load of shit.

Quote from: Panda
One more time and I'm taking you down
Wow, aren't you the big man with all the power.

Bye bye Pixelation, I loved being here.
most of us loved you to kill, unfortunatley there are some that don't.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 15, 2007, 06:07:09 pm
Peace, man. I ain't got no beef, but if leaves are in order, take care.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on June 15, 2007, 06:16:32 pm
Shiiit, drama, here?
This certainly doesn't bode well.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 15, 2007, 06:28:41 pm
well obviously i am biased but I think the mods do a good job of welcoming members.  however, in gil's case, he has taken it upon himself to NOT welcome members kindly, and in such a manner that he appears to be speaking FOR the moderators.  he has received many, many warnings about this.  rudeness (especially unjustified) is not particularly tolerated on this board in general, but doing it in a way that appears to be official is gonna piss the mods off more than it would otherwise, because new members will likely not be able to tell that the message is not coming from the actual leadership.  For example:

"This picture is terrible; you need to go back to the basics and do a lot of thinking and studying and practicing before you'll be able to advance."

Not terribly polite, and a bit presumptuous, but hey in a lot of cases its probably right, and a member will probably not get a warning for saying this in the right circumstances.  However, this:

"This picture is awful.  Thanks for wasting our time; don't bother posting here until you've gone back to the basics."

EDIT - this is not a real post by gil, just an example of the tone of many of his posts that have resulted in deletions and warnings via PM

Thanks for wasting "our" time?  It seems like a small thing, but stuff like this, to a new poster, can be a real turnoff, and make them think this is an elitist community of already-awesome pixelers, rather than a place that can help provide inspiration and information for aspiring artists at any skill level (like myself - when I came here a year or two ago I was baaaaaad).  You will never see a moderator post something like this, and when members post things like this, that appear to the average newbie to possibly be of some official capacity...well that can earn you a warning pretty easily.  And in gil's case things like this have been going on for a year, with little improvement in attitude, despite some improvement in actual post content.

Long story short, making counterproductive posts that step on the mods' toes is not going to endear you to anyone here, especially when its on a regular basis for months on end.  Giving those mods attitude every time they call you out for being an ass is probably not going to help anything either.  Being an ass and having an attitude is likely going to color mods' perceptions of your posts as well; I don't see how it can't.  So I don't know what the problem and the surprise are here.

If you feel the need to leave, AND to make a scene about leaving in the hopes that it will inspire some kind of reactionary revolution...cuz that happens all the time on the internets...well, you do what you have to in order to feel better.  But don't you think if this was a problem with the mods, there would be more users being subjected to the same treatment?  Or is this all a big conspiracy?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 15, 2007, 06:58:11 pm
Panda made sure of that, no one else to thank for this one.

Shouldn't mods be welcolming members not driving them away.  Losing gil is like losing a limb, he's been here longer than practically all the other members, and i think its wrong that he's been targetted with strikes and postal deletion.  Gil quite obviously cares about this community and pushing him away because certain people mis-interpret his posts is quite frankly a load of shit.

Quote from: Panda
One more time and I'm taking you down
Wow, aren't you the big man with all the power.

Bye bye Pixelation, I loved being here.
most of us loved you to kill, unfortunatley there are some that don't.


Losing Gil is like losing a limb? For you I guess.
He has not been targeted with warnings and strikes because we wanted, but he earned them himself (why waste my free time?). What makes him so superior to other members that he can go without any warning after being an ass?
I think we haven't been strict at all, as it hasn't been a single post strike thing, but something that has been building up for quite a long time, he has crossed the line too many times. Then again you wouldn't know as we have been keeping this place as clean as we could, but whatever.
Today I simply warned him since he was posting something of a jerky nature, because next time he acted like an ass he would get another strike and get banned, yet he decided to turn everything into a drama (why would I turn anything into a drama myself? again, to waste my free time?) and started telling me about my GRAND job and how he has posted 20times more critique than me (forgetting how he has been an ass for about the same amount).

About welcoming members, I don't think I have acted like Gil in that duty. I haven't acted like an ass for no reason at all. I've been treating new comers and old members alike.
And you would have loved him to kill? Now isn't that ironic after the statement before? This place is not about owning anyone, it is about helping and improving.

But anyway, since he is leaving on his own, why keep talking about it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: robalan on June 15, 2007, 07:06:45 pm
Is it just me, or does this "dramatic leaving of a fairly prominent member after some random drama with the moderation" thing seem to happen on a regular basis around here?  Not pointing any blame at one party or the other, but every time it seems stupid.  Of course, the dramatically left members tend to end up coming back after a several-month hiatus, though their returns frequently end dramatically again.  Ah, well.  Some people seem to like being the center of drama.  Not my cup of tea, but whatever floats your boat.

On a more off topic: badly written sentences are funny!  http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/  http://adamcadre.ac/lyttle.html
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 15, 2007, 07:28:36 pm
man, playing mario kart ds can be killer on the eyes >.<
as if it wasn't bad enough that things look blurry 5 feet away from me without my glasses, when I play mkds things on my monitor look blurry  :yell:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on June 15, 2007, 07:53:39 pm
Gil is one of those people who has always been on the edge, and i don't think it's too far off to say that he sort of enjoyed it there, or, at the very least, strove little to be anywhere else, (apologies and explanations aplenty will stop you from being banned, yes, but then, avoiding the situation entirely is perhaps a better way to go).

Drama happens, particularly when i think the majority of us are between 15 and 25.  I've butted heads with a couple of people over matters which are not always as significant in reality as they might have seemed at the time.  To my knowledge, these have been sorted out and smoothed (unless theres anyone out there hiding a grudge :P). 

My point is, infrequent headbuttings and misunderstandings are not a reason to have someone forcefully removed......but highly frequent headbuttings might be.  Still, I'm no scholar of gil's or panda's activities, i couldn't really tell you who might have brought it about.

Gil - i think it's a shame that you feel pressured to leave, and i think it's a shame that you should actually would go about actually leaving.







BTW, what other prominent members leave in a huff?  I know that people have made a fuss, but their visits are often short (and their contributions underwhelming).  It's a rare occurrence, i think, for someone with a number of years and a good head on their shoulders to leave the place (it's sort of a place...?) all pissed off.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on June 15, 2007, 09:53:40 pm
It's kinda amusing how it's always the moderators' fault. Like it never crosses one's mind how a forum this large would look without a defined set of rules.

Speaking of rules. Guitar Hero 2 is really pumping my ego. I got several new best scores today. I just need to get a 5* rating on any song on Expert, on the last set list... and I'm happy. I'm also lacking 5* scores on the 6th list (third to last), but I managed to get 4* on all the songs there so I'm kinda pleased with that for now. The 7th set list was easy to get a 5* score on. It's got YYZ after all.

I get five stars on that damn song every time I play it, no matter how badly I mess up.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 16, 2007, 01:49:38 am
Personally I have seen plenty of posts from Gil deserving of strikes, and I'm glad to see him leave if these are the posts he continually, and consistantly makes.

You say you're being singled out. Perhaps this is because you ARE the worst offender? I have managed not to butt heads with the moderators, as have the majority of other members on these boards, and I am not always positive about peoples' work. You seem to go out of your way to post something extremely negative, and not at all constructive every time you see something that you percieve to be below some imaginary standard you have invented that is required to be an active member of Pixelation.

I have seen Helm on occasion say to members that they would benefit to learn the basics before trying to experiment further with pixel art, but he has always appeared friendly and genuinely helpful when doing so. The problem is not what you are saying, as what you say in AdamA's examples could very well be valid, and is very similar to the advice Helm has given on occasion. The difference is your posts are demoralising. Some of these people are 11, 12, 13 years old, and they don't deserve to be put down like that for trying something new.

I have a younger brother who is only 10 and whilst he isn't particularly talented at drawing for his age, he is very enthuesiastic about learning to get better, and deserves the chance to improve without negativity being thrown at him. It is a right that should be extended to everyone on these boards. Not everyone is trying to make a living off of Pixel Art. For some it is just a hobby, and that has to be respected as well. Not everybody can be the next Da Vinci. They see something that inspires them, and so they want to do it too, and you damn them for it.
 
The fact is I've been around on Pixelation for a long time as well, I'm not sure about our exact join dates, but possibly as long or longer than you, and the first thoughts that come to mind when I think of you and your posts are of someone who thinks he's somehow better than the newer members here.

If Gil was ever a limb, he is a festering one now.
(It isn't nice to hear others being so negative about you is it? Bare that in mind.)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 16, 2007, 02:39:48 am
Well, since your leaving i guess that it's okay if i disclose these little tidbits from our friendly PM exchanges.


Quote from: Gil
About your post calling me an ass in Zee's thread:

You have no right to call me out, as you aren't a mod. My comment was very polite, I just told Zee that the edit was bad, which it is. Draco didn't take it bad, neither should you.

Also, Feron's comment on that edit was a lot harsher than mine.

Quote from: Gil
Look, I could care less about your pathetic person, it's not like you ever did anything for this community, except for providing us some dumb spam to read...

And I couldn't care less about your opinion, because after my strike, multiple people contacted me to say they strongly dissagree and that they consider me a valuable member. People who have been member for a lot longer than you are. I just thought you might want to know a little more about the story before you spout your mouth on the subject.

In any case, I hope you find a lovely little community elsewhere that appreciates you and your pretentious, egotistical attitude. I hope that when you find such a place, you feel welcome when the resident oldbie asshole shits on your head, just as you have the newcomers of ours.

edit: sorry about not being able to post my own PMs in this conversation. Not trying to hide the fact that i was also harsh, but the forum's software doesn't seem to archive outgoing messages, feel free to post my half if you're still kicking around, Gil.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on June 16, 2007, 02:49:19 am
PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE.

The correct connotation is "Could care less."
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Gil on June 16, 2007, 02:55:12 am
Okay, look, I wasn't going to post anymore, but this is pushing it.

1. Faceless should get a strike for that post. Whoever he's talking to, you can't just post that and get away with it. I didn't even post anything half that rude to get my strikes. Plus, it's obviously a way to start a flame war

2. Stwellin, that's very low. Those PMs are confidential, and you surely forgot to mention that I sent that after I had sent you a polite PM, to which you replied with this total jerk comment:

Quote
I really don't care about your sob story. Sorry the mods dislike your attitude now, and sorry that you are being punished for doing a civil duty. (read: asshole.)

Don't belittle me by saying that "i don't really understand what's going on." I'm not digging for a big story here, or anything about your past, i just hate the way you talk towards people! Get a grip, man.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 16, 2007, 02:59:33 am
Quote from: Gil
Stwellin, that's very low. Those PMs are confidential, and you surely forgot to mention that I sent that after I had sent you a polite PM

Quote from: stwelin
Not trying to hide the fact that i was also harsh, but the forum's software doesn't seem to archive outgoing messages, feel free to post my half if you're still kicking around, Gil.

Well... it would appear you have a real stranglehold on that whole ordeal known as reading, eh?

--

Anyway, I'd like to direct anyone interested over to shmup-dev.com , as they've started their second round of  shmup development for the year 2007 with a whole new theme. Anyone proficient in game artwork, programming, or that just likes shmups should definitely check it out.. I myself will be participating, just wanted to make sure it didn't pass under anyone's radar, there appear to be a lot more entries this time. The more the merrier.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Gil on June 16, 2007, 03:02:50 am
Are you expecting me to start flaming you now?

There's a difference between harsh and that PM you sent me. The difference is common decency.

It's also common decency to let me leave in peace, instead of flamebating me back. I said I didn't want a fuss, yet you are creating one...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 16, 2007, 03:09:18 am
I don't seem to be able to locate any part in this thread where you stated you weren't trying to cause an issue, in fact, formally stating you were leaving with a post of that nature was a surefire way TO cause a fuss.

In any case, good riddance. I didn't know you well at all, so I cannot say there is anything i will feel like I am missing, but I am sorry to those who feel the community will be lesser without you.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Tenshi on June 16, 2007, 03:11:25 am
Did someone say something about 'oldbies'?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 16, 2007, 03:14:57 am
This is the most on-topic off-topic thread in some time.. for pete's sake, someone post some legos or something.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 16, 2007, 03:16:45 am
No more legos!
Uh...Uh...

How 'bout that new Batman movie?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Mori on June 16, 2007, 03:19:02 am
ITT: Drama.

So, what part of "private message" does the P not relate to in 'PM'?  I think that's kind of rude, especially considering the only purpose it can possibly serve is to personally attack him in the public and attempt to further discredit. Personal attacks like this are better off remaining in /private/ messages.

Gil's a good guy. He can be pretty harsh at times and isn't one to mince words, which can lead to some misunderstandings of the nature of his messages, but to go to this extent and oust him because he's "being mean"? I thought the #1 rule of Pixelation was: "Don't be an ass". Flame threads such as this do nothing but show the asinine nature of all involved (yes, myself included, as I'm further enticing the thread (though hoping for a conclusion sooner than later)).

What may be the best for this thread is a lock and warning from a neutral moderator saying anything further should be taken up in PM. Warnings should be issued to those that have attacked others.

Although I guess some mods might be upset that someone without any moderator privileges would dare to give an honest and hopefully-unbiased disclosure idea...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on June 16, 2007, 03:24:13 am
I CAN'T WAIT FOR LOST SEASON 4
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sharprm on June 16, 2007, 03:34:51 am
Panda recently explained to me the purpose of Pixelation. Its to help newcomers improve. But …..

Some people post such crappy art. Nice people try really hard to improve it. Some people have trouble actually seeing what is wrong with their stuff and don’t use the edits. And it just goes on and on …

I hope people understand what kind of threads I’m talking about. In the end someone says the obvious thing: you need to practice drawing a lot to improve, critique is a waste of time. What, then, is the point in encouraging young newcomers? If it’s going to take them years improving on their own, why not discourage them from posting?

My brother was the opposite of faceless, he was like, ‘this is shit, look how big his head is, he looks retarded!’. It might not be the hippie love type message faceless and Panda like but at least I knew why things looked bad so I could improve.

Gil should be given moderator status. Gil then would be above the rules. There is an imaginary line of quality and Gil could enforce it. Otherwise you will get a lot of people posting crap and then critiquing other peoples crap and saying “you need to try dithering cos I read it somewhere” even though that wouldn’t help at all.

Take Chigasm’s thread. There was a pyramid. Then a hotel with an aquarium. Then a necomer posted a piece of art he made: a pyramid hotel filled with water. IT’S THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND I TELL YOU!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 16, 2007, 03:55:05 am
There is constructive criticism and there is being an ass, and as you know, rule #1 is "don't be an ass."  The behavior you're describing, regardless of whether or not you personally approve of it, is ass behavior, and is the single most important, and most explicit reason there are moderators here.  Thank you for proving our existence worthwhile!

As for giving Gil moderator status...I hope you were being sarcastic.  I really do!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on June 16, 2007, 04:00:32 am
Jesus craps, you guys. OOTT was my spot here. Looks like it's already headed for a rotten start. I'm not sure who's to blame, so I'll just say..." This ain't my fight..." and walk away.

Any who, Xion I've seen some leaked photos of Heath Ledger as Joker...They look aight, I guess, but I'm more afraid as how he'll portray him...(gonna' be tuff to beat that staple of a job, by Jack Nicholson...)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on June 16, 2007, 04:07:08 am
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/zolthorg/topicresolved.png)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 16, 2007, 04:11:27 am
Jack as Joker is gonna be very hard to trump, true. I can't think of any actor that would fit the role any better of the bat... I think Jack's actual personality just fits the character so well.

Oh, and what's the deal with the Wachowski bros. doing a Speed Racer remake?

--edit: pyramid hotels inside aquariums should be the theme for the next pixeljoint challenge.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on June 16, 2007, 04:12:27 am
wasnt there some "i believe in harvey dent too" site that had a picture?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 16, 2007, 04:13:03 am
We all sucked ass at one point or another, in something, and there were people who were willing to not only tell us how to get better, but encourage us to do so. It's kind of like, natural, to reciprocate that to others who suck ass at something we're better than them at. Don't tell someone what to do better and then scare them away from doing it. That's like saying "you need to fix the plumbing, but really, just get the f**k out of the house."

If someone isn't that good at pixelling, they should feel like they've come to the right place to remedy that. If they don't take the crits being given, then just leave 'em alone, if you like.

In the old FAQ, wasn't there something that said when giving crits try to point out what you like along with what you dislike. So give the good with the bad, as sort of a buffer to discourage discouragement that may have been brought on by the actual crits. At least I think it said something like that.

But w/e.


Yeah, B.O.B, I was thinking that too.

Zolthrrrggg:
Es perfecto!


Damn, how fast do you peeps type?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on June 16, 2007, 04:22:50 am
A one liner is uberfast.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on June 16, 2007, 04:28:46 am
Quote
I CAN'T WAIT FOR LOST SEASON 4

Augh, I hate that cliffhanger. THERE WERE UNRESOLVED ISSUES, WHY'D THEY GO AND DO THAT!?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 16, 2007, 04:32:28 am
Anyone keep track of The Sopranos? Speculations?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 16, 2007, 04:35:59 am
I CAN'T WAIT FOR LOST SEASON 4
the ending of season 3 was so good it was almost worth sticking through season 3... but if the first episode of season 4 is anything like season 3, I'm cutting it off like a diseased hand :mean:


and, I'm facing a bit of a dilemma, my friend and I almost have the second Twinsen demo prepared, and if all continues to go smoothly, we should have everything finished within the next few days, except for one thing
customizable keys..
The default set up on Twinsen got a few complaints, and most were happy to see we planned to have customizable keys, I told everyone to expect them a reality in the next demo, but they just aren't done yet.
to make matters worse, my coder is leaving for about a week, and he will not be able to get them done before he goes, so we either release the demo without customizable keys, people deal with the default keys, and we deal with the complaints.
or we hold it back another week or so and save one less complaint for us to deal with.

For me, the choice is obvious, to hold it an extra week and allow custom keys.. but there are some people that wouldn't care if it gave them cancer, they just want it now.. :-\
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 16, 2007, 04:38:39 am
I disagree about having to give the good with the bad.  Sometimes there is no good.  But giving the bad, and giving pointers and clear, sensible advice about how to approach the problems with your artwork is what this board SHOULD be all about, ESPECIALLY for beginners.  You can be firm and some might say "harsh" without EVER being rude or condescending.  There is a not-so-fine line between pointing out the things you need to fix, and breaking rule #1.  Our job is to try and reign in the folks that try to cross it.

Criticism should not make fun of or berate the artwork or more importantly the artist.
Advice should not be condescending.
Above all, guidance should always be given; the most constructive criticism you can give is a suggestion.
NEVER tell someone that they should stop working on their art.
NEVER tell someone that they can't be good enough.

As I said, it's not a very fine line.  It's about 3 feet wide, and painted in day-glo yellow, and covered with sirens and reflective tape.


@Takam: Wait!!  But don't wait forever - set a firm list of the features you want and stick to it, but DON'T go over!  Can't wait to see it in action :D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Gil on June 16, 2007, 04:45:10 am
I never discouraged beginning members by saying they should stop working on their art did I? Which line did I cross? I was just blunt now and then, but the message was never condescending...

Also, there is no doubt that I have in fact given TONS of really nice and good advice too...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 16, 2007, 04:45:49 am
Takam: has the gameplay smoothened out over the past few months? I haven't been keeping track of Twinsen, but from the gif you posted of the gameplay, it appears more friendly. I could not get a grip on the controls for the life of me when the first playable demo was released. Also, I fancy myself a GML linguist, and if you really want, i would be more than happy to lend a helping hand if you are that anxious to get a demo out this week with customizable controls (even though it is not that crucial of an aspect).  However, it's more likely that your programmer doesn't want me botching his scripts, which is of course reasonable. GML isn't hard to pick up, i'd dare to say you'd probably be able to figure out the basic premise for implementing customizable keys in a day or two if you lurked in the right places over at the game maker community forums.

Lookin' forward to it. :)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on June 16, 2007, 05:20:04 am
PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE.

The correct connotation is "Could care less."

No it's not.  Read your Strunk and White.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 16, 2007, 06:40:21 am
Any who, Xion I've seen some leaked photos of Heath Ledger as Joker...They look aight, I guess, but I'm more afraid as how he'll portray him...(gonna' be tuff to beat that staple of a job, by Jack Nicholson...)
From what I heard, the guy knows (or knew) absolutely nothing about the Joker, never saw the first batman movie, never read the comics.
It's amazing that he got the job. Jack was perfect as the Joker imo.

@.TakaM:
It wouldn't hurt to postpone the demo a week. Take a look at Blizzard, they postpone releases of pretty much anything to make sure that they release a quality product.
Whether it's a minor patch, major patch, beta, expansion, or a first release.
If you can get those custom keys set up quickly once your coder gets back, then it shouldn't hurt.
I would say to talk with him and figure out how long he thinks it will take to set them up. If it is going to take too long then go ahead and release the demo and then update it whenever the custom keys are done.

@Stwelin: I thought I heard the series was over? *shrug* I don't really pay attention to the Sopranos, never watched it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 16, 2007, 07:11:49 am
Takam: has the gameplay smoothened out over the past few months? I haven't been keeping track of Twinsen, but from the gif you posted of the gameplay, it appears more friendly. I could not get a grip on the controls for the life of me when the first playable demo was released. Also, I fancy myself a GML linguist, and if you really want, i would be more than happy to lend a helping hand if you are that anxious to get a demo out this week with customizable controls (even though it is not that crucial of an aspect).  However, it's more likely that your programmer doesn't want me botching his scripts, which is of course reasonable. GML isn't hard to pick up, i'd dare to say you'd probably be able to figure out the basic premise for implementing customizable keys in a day or two if you lurked in the right places over at the game maker community forums.

Lookin' forward to it. :)
I like to think it's been smoothened out, the controls are more versatile, but its a bit hard for me to gauge as I've mastered every reiteration of the controls :P
plus I use a nice old snes controller with joy2key :-*

thanks guys, I feel confident in delaying it a week now, I was gonna check if a friend of mine could do the custom keys while he's away, but he said he wouldn't have figured out the coding before he gets back anyways :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: fawel on June 16, 2007, 07:18:16 am
My mum is an auditor for "Lost."

For you Batman guys, have you seen the new batsuit (http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/06/batmansuitlarge.jpg) yet?
Looks very cool :)

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 16, 2007, 07:49:47 am
My mum is an auditor for "Lost."

For you Batman guys, have you seen the new batsuit (http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/06/batmansuitlarge.jpg) yet?
Looks very cool :)
Euhh...I'm no fan of the new suit.

TakaM: I can't wait, but I'll wait.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 16, 2007, 08:28:04 am
Gil: You are just making yourself look like a desperate fool, but whatever.
If we were giving a strike for every rude comment given, you'd have at least 50 by now. Your first strike was after many things build up, and being rude to Hawk was the last straw that broke the camel's back. Stop mentioning the "whoever should get a strike for this" as it won't lead you anywhere.
Well, now isn't it funny? Yesterday I PM'd you politely and you simply started with your drama all by yourself, posting on the OT thread about you leaving, and then only posting the parts that were juicy for you from my PMs (like the "next time you are going down" leaving the "I just warned you" part)
If you wanted to leave in peace, why did you even start this whole thing? If you care so much about the community, why would you do such a thing?
You are simply so proud of yourself and your past "tons of good CC" to a point where you believe that it makes up for whatever you do. And having people pointing otherwise makes you itch.
Common decency you say? Do you ever apply it before posting like an ass?
All the things you are mentioning here to defend yourself, could be perfectly used against you aswell.
But anyway, I just had enough with you, and to tell you the truth, you are not worth my free time.
If you are leaving, just go.


sharprm: I never said it was only a place to help new comers. I said it was a place for helping and improving.
Also Gil a mod? Haha that's a good one.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 16, 2007, 08:44:33 am
Panda, Gil... Enough of this.
Take it to pms, quit poisoning the community with your drama, we don't want it.
I don't care who started it, or what else either of you think you need to say, you can both keep it to pms if you really feel either of you need to say something.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 16, 2007, 08:51:26 am
Yes, yes, my bad for this, but I had to reply.


Anyway, is anyone going to get Zelda DS as soon as it comes?
I'm kinda looking forward to it, though I wish you had d-pad control.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 16, 2007, 09:26:47 am
Oh my. Look at all this. I go to a comics festival for a few days and people go on a flaming festival.

Not only are some people discussing this out in the open, feeding the drama, a few old users have come out of wherever they've been hiding to post their opinions on the matter. That's a bit strange.

Gil is banned now, for a year. Hammer of justice crushes him, overpower. All that. That's the end of that. If any of you want to discuss it further, okay, but please try to keep it civil. Because someone was banned doesn't mean we now get to be an ass to them for the hell of it. We'll miss Gil's constructive critique, but we won't miss his behaviour problems. Perhaps a year from now things will have fixed themselves.

Stwelin, it's really really bad form to post PMs without the permission of the other guy. Please don't do that again.

Mori, Tenshi, hello. Maybe stick around and post some critique? That will surely enhance pixelation much more than internet drama.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 16, 2007, 09:52:22 am
anyone seen the new fantastic four?, the first was shit - but i think this is going to be one of the rare occasions when a sequel is better than an original.

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 16, 2007, 09:56:13 am
Yes, yes, my bad for this, but I had to reply.


Anyway, is anyone going to get Zelda DS as soon as it comes?
I'm kinda looking forward to it, though I wish you had d-pad control.
I'm kinda looking forward to it, the controls don't worry me at all, but the graphics do.
they have improved a bit lately, but link's face is still deformed and all out of proportion compared to windwaker
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1103/vscy8.png)
plus his hair is almost painted on
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on June 16, 2007, 11:55:03 am
PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE.

The correct connotation is "Could care less."

No it's not.  Read your Strunk and White.

Indeed. If you tell someone that you "could care less", that means you actually do care a little bit. What people mean what they say it, is that they absolutely don't give a shit. Saying that you COULDN'T care less means your interest has hit rock bottom, and perhaps sunk even a bit lower. It's impossible for you to care any less than you currently do, because you do not care about it at all, what-so-ever. I can't believe how many people don't realize that they're saying the opposite of what they're trying to when typing those three words. "Could care less."

"Could careless" is pretty popular online, too, and it really hurts my brain. People don't actually know what words mean anymore, do they? They just throw them around in ways they think they're supposed to be used.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 16, 2007, 12:03:50 pm
How about 'I could give a shit' / 'I don't give a shit'. DEMYSTIFY PLEASE
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 16, 2007, 12:54:28 pm
before I go to bed, I gotta share this:
http://crazytalk.typepad.com/bluegrassroots/2007/06/fun_at_the_crea.html
jaw dropping
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 16, 2007, 01:15:10 pm
The new Zelda has some interesting gameplay mechanics, but of of course, someone has to go out of their way to find a minuscule aspect of the graphics that bothers them and say that the game is ruined. :P I don't care if they completely butchered his entire image! I just want to throw the boomerang around with the stylus! >:U what ever happened to playing a game for... oh, i don't know, the -game- -play-
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: 9_6 on June 16, 2007, 02:15:48 pm
Guys, back to topic please D=<

I like Döner :D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on June 16, 2007, 03:26:49 pm
Anyone keep track of The Sopranos? Speculations?

Shittiest ending in the world :'(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on June 16, 2007, 03:31:21 pm
Roar! Anyone wanna do a collab? Perhaps a corrob?
I gots time and not much to do, baby :V.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 16, 2007, 04:19:04 pm
corrob

define..
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 16, 2007, 04:21:02 pm
I'll colour some lines, but I don't much feel like making any myself at the moment.
And Stewin, what do you expect from an art board? We spend most of our time on here giving crits, it's only natural that we do that with pro stuff too.
I find there are some games that offend my sensibilities and that I just won't play. I think Phantom Hourglass looks great though, but TakaM does have a point about Link. I think he is the weakest looking of all the characters we've seen so far.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on June 16, 2007, 04:44:02 pm
corrob

define..
Corroboration.
Ala "I think this is good" ->"I definitely agree. The light crispy flavor of the bread mixes well with the alligatormonkey."<-
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 16, 2007, 04:49:11 pm
I think he is the weakest looking of all the characters we've seen so far.

Link is weak.  period.  Master chief would totally own link... damn you nintendo fanboys!!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on June 16, 2007, 04:54:48 pm
Pshh, yeah, sure. MAYBE he would, but using technology from a thousand or two years in the future.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 16, 2007, 05:00:34 pm
Nah, Link would own him with the Mirror Shield, and the Master Sword would cut through that armour like a hot knife through butter.
Magic > Technology. Light Arrows for massive damage. :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on June 16, 2007, 05:33:58 pm
How about 'I could give a shit' / 'I don't give a shit'. DEMYSTIFY PLEASE

Mm-hmm. That translates to "I could care" / "I don't care" which can be remade into "I could care more" / "I couldn't care less"


Quote
Pshh, yeah, sure. MAYBE he would, but using technology from a thousand or two years in the future.
What? Hyrule doesn't exist on this planet. In this dimension, or universe. By Hylian counting, their civilization might be 5000 year old for all we know. In fact, it's possible that the year 2552 (when Halo takes place) is the equivalent of Hyrule's past!

But as always, "who would win" depends on who's the main character. If Link was the hero and fighting Master Chief, his shield would block bullets and light arrows would just generally annihilate technology and armor. Master Chief would also be a bulky, slow enemy who takes a full second to turn 180 degrees. If the MC was the main character, his armor piercing bullets would tear Link up, and a sword would just glide off his shield system, just like bullets reflect in-game. MC would run twice as fast, jump three times as high, and generally own the little magic fairy boy.

To even the playing field; In the real world, magic doesn't exist, forcefields don't exist, but bullets still tear through flesh. MC wins.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 16, 2007, 07:09:31 pm
Anyway, is anyone going to get Zelda DS as soon as it comes?
I'm kinda looking forward to it, though I wish you had d-pad control.
Yes.


I find it soooo freeeakkiinngg annoying when people put two characters against each other whose universes are so completely different from one another that the mere technology available in one could pwn the other. I mean, that's not even fair. Of course bullets > flesh, so MC would win in a couple shots. But I mean, how about like, the unicycle from Uniracers vs Sonic...! Samus vs MC is a pretty fair one, I think. How about Juno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Force_Gemini) vs Jak? Link vs Simon Belmont?
I mean seriously, what's the point of pitting two characters like that against each other? That's like saying "who would win, a redwood or a chainsaw?" I mean, redwoods are badass and all, but the technological disparity leaves it defenseless!
So yeah, end rant.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on June 16, 2007, 07:14:39 pm
@Rox: Guns don't kill people. Evil brains with masculine muscles, beer-induced mass mania, sexual prowess, of pure bones and flesh, with loose trigger fingers kill people...(and evil kittens who have mastered mind control, in the hopes of destroying those pose a threat to their well being)

@TakaM: I just read that thing about the creation museum. I must say: Wow. How do things like this even get funded? Not to start any religious quarrels, but I just can't fathom why people, especially large numbers here in America, choose to deny scientific theories, like Evolution with theology as their back up. The Bible has many holes in it, and has been changed to fit the current times. Yet some people still believe every word of it! Even the Catholic church have ADMITTED to certain hiccups of the bible (for example, the ordeal with the "Red sea" being parted, when a mistranslation showed it to be the "Reed Sea" which tends to shallow to walkable levels during certain parts of the year...).
   I'm not saying "don't believe in God, he's not real." Neither am I choosing whose religion is plausible, or even possibly acceptable. All of them have their quarks. I just wish every one would look past the obvious and realize that nearly all these ancient religions follow the basic rules of thumb: Don't kill, Don't steal, Don't lie, and the above all most important(in my opinion), Happiness.
   I believe in evolution, but I also believe that there is still some force or life form out there that gave not just us life, but everything else. It's name, in human translation, we'll just call "it" God. How it works, nobody knows. I just wish people were more open to increasing knowledge, rather than greed. Hell, even Einstein felt a closer curiosity to the mysteries of God, as he gained more knowledge in Scientific theories.(Not Scientology...Don't even get me started on that...ugh.) 
   My parents are very religious, as they came from a small, VERY poor village in Mexico, therein which good education was sparse. They always wished me to join them at church, but I just never felt the need. It wasn't my thing. However,one day they took off to some church retrieval (which I still don't agree with) for 3 days. When they came back, I greeted them at the door and I found my mother glowing; Not in the metaphorical sense, but LITERALLY glowing (not joking)!! I saw that she was so happy from the trip, that quite possibly, it released chemicals within her body causing her skin to illuminate. It was strange, but right then and there I realized that although I have a STRONG distrust for leaders, especially pushers of the faith, that maybe this whole religious thing ain't so bad after all. If this is what really made her happy, than why fuck it up. Let her be.

Happiness...find it, don't fuck it up, and never let anybody take it away from you....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 16, 2007, 07:58:58 pm
but I just can't fathom why people, especially large numbers here in America, choose to deny scientific theories, like Evolution with theology as their back up.

From Merriam-Webster's Online dictionary:
Quote
Main Entry: the·o·ry
Pronunciation: 'thE-&-rE, 'thir-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
Etymology: Late Latin theoria, from Greek theOria, from theOrein
1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : SPECULATION
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all>
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave theory of light>
6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>
Science as I see it, is man's study and understanding of what God made. The thing with science is, every time we turn around a "theory" or something that scientists have seen as fact becomes proven wrong by other scientists. Science is not perfect and I believe alot of scientists are fools and have possibly unknowingly screwed up their studies.
One example of my belief about science is carbon dating. I don't believe it is anywhere near as accurate as scientists believe it is. I don't think that they factor in everything that has happened over the hundreds or thousands of years since the item they're trying to date was created. They probably don't think about all the effects whatever they're dating has gone through from weather changes to being exposed to a fire or certain chemicals.
This is just my opinion on carbon dating, but anyways there are just too many flaws in science. As hard as they may try and say that humans evolved from lower life forms, there is no way to prove it actually happened. If evolution had infact happened, don't you think the drawings on cave walls thousands of years ago might look a bit different? or that we would see other creatures evolving into higher life forms with a significant amount of intelligence?

Even the Catholic church have ADMITTED to certain hiccups of the bible (for example, the ordeal with the "Red sea" being parted, when a mistranslation showed it to be the "Reed Sea" which tends to shallow to walkable levels during certain parts of the year...).
I haven't read my Bible in a while, but didn't the sea end up swallowing up some of the Pharaoh's army that were chasing the Israelites?? Also, I don't believe it said that the water was "shallow".

...

Quote
Exodus 14:16  But lift up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.
King James Version

Thank you for making me pick up my Bible, it's been over a year since i read it. :)

I will not speak for the museum, I've never been there and I didn't read more than 3/4 of that story about it.

----------
Also, if we're going by Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, Link has a cape/cloak that makes him invisible doesn't he? Then he could just sneak up on MC and get him when his guard is down.
Don't forget that Link also has bombs in his arsenal as well, so he can be just as deadly as MC if he played his cards right.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 16, 2007, 08:18:23 pm
Quote from Eddie Izzard “Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun).”

Religion's mostly good for giving ordinary people good reasons to live and rules to go by. I mean sometimes you can get to a vicious cycle where everything you do seems obsolete when you think about it hard enough, which leads to people getting depressed. It's like the bible has the mission objectives and rules for the game of life, while if you don't have any, you might go LOL WTF and idle in the internets for the rest of your life. But it is kind of funny how things get enforced with age. Like how bible is somehow more eligible cause it's old. Same goes for laws. There's a lot of laws today that are based on pretty darn old things but are twisted to fit the modern society. Then again the bible has been changed to be more convinient and some meanings have been re-interpreted to work better. Like how bible says women should shuddap in teh church and so forth, and now there's a problem of some male priests not acknowledging female priests. Also a lot of people have died in the name of religion, while the Bible tells you not to kill.

Still, religion is good, it (usually) makes people happy.

Snippa, i think having quite a few life forms between a human and an ape gradually changing from one end to the other is proof enough. As for carbon dating, just check the wikipedia article. It has things affecting it, and they are taken into account therefore needing calibration. Aaaand finally, evolution is slow, if you take a baby from 2000 years ago and raise in the modern society, i don't think you could tell it's a person from 2000 years ago.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 16, 2007, 08:31:55 pm
I don't trust science because I don't believe in constants (except for God). Everything changes (except for God). Period (except for God). Everytime someone says "that's impossible" or "that's illogical"...well, only because it would break the laws that you apply to everything, not the laws that actually are.

So pretty much, I don't believe in gravity...or at least gravity as we've come to see it. I think that every object has invisible arms that pull other things towards them, and bigger things have more and more muscular arms, which is why planets have more gravity than thumbs. And everything likes to spin, which is where orbits come from, and which is why spinning around 'til you're dizzy is always fun as a kid.

It especially bugs me when people say certain planets can't hold life.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 16, 2007, 08:51:08 pm
SNIPPA - your entire post is silly.  The colloquial or popular use of the word "theory" is VERY different from the scientific use of the word "theory".  When scientists use the word theory, they mean this:

"In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and a theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the general theory of relativity."

(from wikipedia)

Theories are constantly changing and improving as new EVIDENCE is discovered.  People who argue against the theory of evolution as a framework for understanding the world we live in usually fail to understand that the only reason this theory still stands is that currently there is no contradictory evidence available to augment or improve the theory in a major way.

Science and religion CAN co-exist.  Both Newton and Einstein were deeply religious men who believed that science was a tool that God gave to men in order to help understand His creation.

Real science rarely describes anything as impossible.  There is only improbability; after all, that's what quantum mechanics is all about!


EDIT - Tangential to this is a language thing.  You say "your belief about carbon dating," while scientists say "the evidence we have observed about carbon dating."  Do you see how one of these could be construed as being completely arbitrary?  Use the tools at your disposal to help understand your world!  So what if the world is actually a few billion years old, according to the evidence?  God could have manipulated that evidence to help us learn.  And on top of that, the IMPORTANT stuff in the bible has NOTHING to do with claims of the earth's youth.  Is that the most important thing you can find in there?  Is all the stuff about caring for other people and living a good life suddenly invalidated because a 2000 yr old document has some weird translation errors?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 16, 2007, 09:02:06 pm
Meh, just because someone can draw a picture of an ape and then modify it a little bit, copy that, modify it some more, rinse and repeat doesn't mean that it actually happened. It's a theory and that's it, it doesn't make it proof. I have not seen any real skeletons that show proof of evolution, then again... even if i did, I wouldn't have the education to study the skeleton(s) thoroughly and say that they are indeed not related to humans.
As we have seen in the present day, pretty much anywhere you look, there are people that have been born with birth defects, it is very possible that if archaeologists found a skeleton that scientists deemed to be a stage in the human evolutionary scale, that that person just had a birth defect of some sort.

Yeah, according to theories of evolution, it may be an extremely slow process, but also according to scientists, earth has been around for billions of years... and yet, there is no evidence of any other species on this planet of ever evolving anywhere near where we are at in life today. You would think being that earth is that old, that there would have been at least one other race of sentient beings that have lived here before us, or that during our evolution we would have encountered species of animals on our planet evolving to a point of sentience.

If there were sentient beings that evolved here on earth before us, there would be evidence of their presence. There is none.
Also, if we evolved from apes... why are apes still around? Why haven't the rest of them evolved along side us? Why don't we see evidence of apes evolving since we've started recording history? Did apes just stop evolving after the first few completely evolved into what we are today?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 16, 2007, 09:17:13 pm
Well, the study of evolution is basically that; pictures of apes that were copy-pasted in photoshop.  It certainly wasn't a century of research done all over the world by thousands of scientists; and even if it were, that's pretty easy to discard.  After all, they did all their learning from books, and observing the natural world.  We just can't trust these people!  :huh:

This is my last word on this "debate:"

You can accept that evolution (and all of science) can provide a useful framework for understanding our world based on available evidence, without ever believing that the events (such as evolution or the big bang) actually happened.

Science is a simple system of hypotheses and evidence.  It is NOT a belief system.  It does not challenge your precious Bible.  You can choose not to believe in Science, but you must then very seriously consider if you also believe in Math, or Logic in general.

If you see useful models as an affront to your religious beliefs, you are going to have a hard time getting through this life.  And if you need proof of your beliefs, then you are believing for all the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 16, 2007, 09:30:55 pm
There's proof of evolution happening all the time. Like some insects evolve into stronger insects due to the use of pesticides. A group 1000 is poisoned, a few barely make it trough, those create a new 1000, they're poisoned again, some more survive and suddenly there's a group of insects impervious to a certain type of pesticide. I could go on forever, but it seems that you're just uneducated Snippa. Study the evidence of common descent.

"evolving anywhere near where we are at in life today."

I'd say human race is in a pretty darn shitty situtaion in life today. Man is only benefitial to man. Also there's quite a few sentient species on earth as far as i know :P

And apes are still around for the same reason there are a zillion different types of cats around. Different environment brings forward different evolution. Some had an unchanging environment that doesn't bring forward evolution.

Tho you can't really prove anything if you go into semantics, since you can't really even prove that anything other than yourself exists.

-edit-
disregard that i suck lollipop, i second what adam said.

So anyone going to see the new Transformers movie?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 16, 2007, 09:38:11 pm
I'd say enough about this whole thing. It will lead nowhere.
I'm agnostic myself, and I don't care much about religions overall (but if there is someone up there or down there watching over us, good for her), and I accept evolution theories and all the scientific er... thingies.
It doesn't matter to me whether you agree with me or not.
Simply believe what you want and whatever makes you happy, but keep it to yourself without forcing anyone else to be like you.
After all every one is the protagonist of their own life, and you got no extra 1UPs around. So just be the way you want.

But ultimately the universe was made by nintendo.  !yus!

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 16, 2007, 10:12:39 pm
But ultimately the universe was made by nintendo.  !yus!
Atari.  :mean:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 16, 2007, 10:25:20 pm
I'm agnostic myself

man, agnostic is the worst.  Atheist - if there is god we're going to hell, if not, we get a well deserved lie-in on sundays.  Religious people have something to look forward to and have something to devote there life/time to.  Agnostic is just trying to get the perks of atheism but without the punishment of a hellish after life, because you were a bit unsure...  :P

And there soooo many long posts in this thread... wateva happened to people posting stupid and useless pictures, or even better ... legos.

The old OT thread was better... this one has a sour beggining and one has a feeling it will continue to do so....

i just spent about Ł140 on concert tickets  :-X
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 16, 2007, 10:30:17 pm
After all every one is the protagonist of their own life, and you got no extra 1UPs around.
I like that.


Natural selection, sure.
Mutations and isolations causing different species, sure.
But I just don't think it could've happened to such a drastic extent as a lizard turning into a bird, or a monkey into a human.
It won't matter much longer anyway, 'cause pretty soon we'll all kill the earth anyway.


Atari? No, man, it was made by George Lucashigeru Miyazaki.

How much is a euro? 140...So, what, that's like 50 cents, right? (j/k)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on June 16, 2007, 10:41:30 pm
Sorry for rousing the fragile subject matter. I just thought that museum was, to put it lightly, interesting.

@huzba: Yar, I most definitely plan to watch the new transformers movie. The first previews looked like ass crap, but the newer ones got me most interested. So yeah, definitely gonna watch it...
   Looks like a Captain America movie is in the talks...well, seriously in the talks or more so than previously mentioned. I just hope that who ever directs, or plays him doesn't make him too corny. He's practically my fav' superhero, and in my opinion, if it blows over, I think it'll be the final nail in the coffin for Marvel movies. The recent releases are EXTREMELY lack luster(ceptin' the staples, like x-men, and spiderman...ok the last X-men movie blew a little.) Hopefully Iron Man can be the better half, to pick up the slack that Fantastic 4 is leaving right now. That, and Edward Norton doing The Hulk. Seriously though, Marvel seems to be slackin' in the cinemas, and DC is catchin' flames real quick. It's as if it's a cycle, that repeats itself like it did during the 60's, 70's, and 80's(Every older generation's favorite Christopher Reed as Superman, and the ass crap marvel movies of the 70's..."The Trial of the Incredible Hulk": Houston, that's a big WTF!)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 16, 2007, 10:43:07 pm
@Xion: I'm confused about the zaki part. o.O
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 16, 2007, 10:47:03 pm
xmen 3 was a patently offensive steaming pile of WTF crap that never should have made it even past budget screenings.  But then, I liked Usual Suspects more than Rush Hour, so...

spiderman 3 was at least fun; it was probably even worse than xmen 3, but since it didn't take itself so GD seriously we could at least enjoy it!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 16, 2007, 11:13:15 pm
i was so disspointed with xmen 3.  The script was a pile of shit, especially next to the other 2.  Spiderman 3 was also bollocks.  batman begins beat both of them put together, oh and throw in the first FF too.

however on the whole there are more good marvel films that DC ones within the past 10 years or so.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 16, 2007, 11:17:03 pm
Miyazaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki)

Xmen3 was ass.
I hope they do Iron Man justice, as he's one of my favorites.
And most definitely, I am going to see Transformers, robots in da skies.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on June 16, 2007, 11:49:29 pm
Also, if we're going by Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, Link has a cape/cloak that makes him invisible doesn't he? Then he could just sneak up on MC and get him when his guard is down.
Don't forget that Link also has bombs in his arsenal as well, so he can be just as deadly as MC if he played his cards right.

And if we're going by Halo: Combat Evolved, then Master Chief can pick up active camo powerups that turn him invisible for a minute!

Also, I'm sorry to bring this up again, but... To me, anyone who can choose not to "believe" in evolution must be one thick creature. Or just closed-minded. But it's kinda proven that religion in general does close minds, so maybe it's not completely unexpected. No offense to anyone who'd be offended by these few sentences. I just think it's a shame, s'all.

So! I've played Oblivion for 104 hours now. I don't see myself stopping anytime soon.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on June 17, 2007, 12:02:10 am


Also, I'm sorry to bring this up again, but... To me, anyone who can choose not to "believe" in evolution must be one thick creature. Or just closed-minded. But it's kinda proven that religion in general does close minds, so maybe it's not completely unexpected. No offense to anyone who'd be offended by these few sentences. I just think it's a shame, s'all.


Well, I do not beleive all things evolved from one single celled orgranism, but too say there has been no evolution amoung species is ludacris. Fossils prove that there has indeed been changes in species over the millions of years the earth has existed. I could even beleive everything evolved from a much smaller group of species than exists now, but I still cannot say I think we all came from a water dwelling single-celled organism. Especially when the adapation of living on land comes into play, that is a durastic change, that I doubt is entirly possible, maybe all land dwellers evolved from amphibians...... Discovery Channel ftw :crazy:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 17, 2007, 11:59:32 am
Oh c'mon xion and malor, it's not that everything suddenly jumped on land or in one day there was a bird evolved from a single cell organism. Just go to wikipedia for some research for yourself. Evolution is slow, and it doesn't happen like what you said Xion, like a lizard suddenly turning into a bird. You say you believe in natural selection, yet don't believe in the long term effects of natural selection? Like if something changed just a little bit over a span of 1000 years, due to natural selection, mutations and environment change and such, so in a few million years it might look totally different. But enough of that, i don't want to sound like a grade school teacher. I don't want to enforce any of the views on anyone, like panda said, suit yourself, but also don't go smashing other theories based on miniscule bits of information you've heard somewhere without any knowledge on the subject matter.

Onto subjects that really do matter, i really liked the first X-men but haven't seen the others. Worth a rent maybe? It's kind of cool the old guys are coming back in a blast, like transformers, turtles and the marvel heroes.

@Rox: ohmigod, oblivion is a really odd creature. I watched my brothes play it a lot and laughed about the random dungeons with nothing inside, fighting the same enemies all the time and having no real goals or whatever. It all seemed so pointless. Then one day i tried it for myself and played like 10 hours straight cause it's just so darn addictive.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on June 17, 2007, 01:19:44 pm
Miyazaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki)
.

Princess Mononoke, was the best Anime movie, evar.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on June 17, 2007, 01:51:45 pm
I personally like Laputa or Nausicaa better than Mononoko, tho they are all ace. Porco Rosso and Totoro are awesome as well, as is Howl's moving castle. Miyazaki owns

On another account, I watched Paprika, the new anime by Satoshi Kon, and it's all kinds of cool.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 17, 2007, 02:53:31 pm
My personal favourites from Ghibli are Totoro, Porco Rosso and Spirited Away. 
Laputa and Nausicaa indeed are pretty nice, and that one with the racoons (Heisei Tanuki Gassen Pompoko) was kinda funny.
Overall I enjoy all the movies coming from that studio (and I can't wait to go to the museum >:0 )

Sathoshi Kon movies are neat too, and Paprika has been my favourite out of all.

But Tekkon Kinkreet beats all of them, at least for me.
If you get the chance, watch it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: dragonrc on June 17, 2007, 03:04:16 pm
Princess mononoke is the best anime movie I've seen till now, I also like spirited away and grave of the fireflies. I don't really like Laputa though. I haven't seen many other anime movies.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on June 17, 2007, 04:18:32 pm
Man, Grave of the Fireflies. I seen it and it totally destroyed me. Most evil antiwarfilm ever. VERY powerful stuff. Only saw it once.
Maybe I will watch it again when I feel entirely too happy sometime. :'(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 17, 2007, 04:26:10 pm
And if we're going by Halo: Combat Evolved, then Master Chief can pick up active camo powerups that turn him invisible for a minute!

Ways Link can detect invisible things:
Magnifying Glass (LA)
Lens of Truth (OoT, and MM)
Wolf Sense (TP)

And lets not forget that Link can travel back through time and kill MC whilst he's still a child.
He can also carry 5 fairies around with him that allow him to cheat death not once, but 5 times.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 17, 2007, 04:53:58 pm
huzba - X-men 2 is a much better movie than x-men 1, i think its the best of the 3 by far, definitely check that one out!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: dragonrc on June 17, 2007, 05:17:13 pm
And lets not forget that Link can travel back through time and kill MC whilst he's still a child.
But can he travel forward in time? MC was born many years after Link.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 17, 2007, 05:27:21 pm
And lets not forget that Link can travel back through time and kill MC whilst he's still a child.
But can he travel forward in time? MC was born many years after Link.

Well, practically you can't really tell if he was born many years after him.
They are from different games with different timelines.
But if they are fighting, you must be putting both in the same time, meaning he could go back to time and kill him, I guess.
Overall this whole thing is ridiculous :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: miascugh on June 17, 2007, 05:39:48 pm
Of the new wave of Marvel/DC movies, of the ones I've watched so far, my favourites were:

Spiderman 2
Superman Returns (also because I'm a bit of a Kevin Spacey fanboy)
X-men 2

and the ones I really disliked were:

Batman Begins (that movie has zero congeniality, and ultimately pales in the face of Burton's approach to the matter)
Fantastic Four (the first and only time I went wtf out loud afterwards in the theater)
X-men 3 (I know next to nothing about the x-men universe, so the sacrilege factor falls away, but it was just poor plot, tons of logic mistakes and overdone claptrap)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 17, 2007, 06:41:33 pm
Was grave of the Fireflies even Miyazaki, or was it just studio Ghibli? Well, Spirited away + Castle in the Sky = pwns them all.

Fantastic four has to be one of the worst movies I've ever seen, and Xmen3 just destroyed the whole thing for me. It should've ended at 2. And where the hell was Nightcrawler?

Well, Link could just use his mirror shield to reflect most weapons back at MC, and his lock-on targeting ensures he almost never misses. Epona > Warthog
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 17, 2007, 07:08:22 pm
It should've ended at 2. And where the hell was Nightcrawler?

it shouldn't have ended at two, they should have just had a much better script for the third.  Nightcrawler was awesome, wasn't he mystique's son??.  When mystique went all human she was quite hot in my opinion.  Angel should have had a bigger part, and where the hell was gambit, he was definitley the best xman from the comics.  Beast just looked stupid, they could have at least used less saturation and made him more "beast-like".

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 17, 2007, 07:30:27 pm
He can travel forward through time in Oracle of Ages.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 17, 2007, 10:41:10 pm
Maybe should pit Link against someone who he can actually fight, like Solid Snake  :lol:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 17, 2007, 11:13:05 pm
That will be decided in Smash Bros Brawl though.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Obsidian on June 17, 2007, 11:17:23 pm
That will be decided in Smash Bros Brawl though.
I can't wait for that game to come out....all I need is a Wii  :(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: chigsam on June 18, 2007, 12:07:00 am
Confirmed characters:

Pit
Mario
Link
Kirby
Pikachu
Fox
Samus

 ;D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on June 18, 2007, 12:33:46 am
Confirmed characters:

Pit
Mario
Link
Kirby
Pikachu
Fox
Samus

 ;D

What about Wario, Snake, and that character from the kirby games?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Obsidian on June 18, 2007, 12:34:03 am
Confirmed characters:

Pit
Mario
Link
Kirby
Pikachu
Fox
Samus

 ;D

Don't forget Metakirby, Solid Snake, Zero Suit Samus, Wario, and all the characters from melee...

EDIT: lol, looks like Malor beat me to it. Oh well, I added a few more.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 18, 2007, 12:52:46 am
Sakurai has said some characters from Melee won't make it.
For example, the Ice Climbers have been scrapped.

It's Metaknight, not Metakirby.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_uk/characters/index.html
Here are the character bios.
Watch the trailers (also on that site) to see the rest of the confirmed characters.

Most have probably done that already, but it's worth posting just in case.
The site is updated daily (except for weekends).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Muffin on June 18, 2007, 01:39:20 am
No Jigglypuff?  :'(

I pwnd with Jigglypuff.  Don't yell at me if he's already been scrapped in the newer game, though. All I have is the N64 game.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Obsidian on June 18, 2007, 01:46:43 am
Sakurai has said some characters from Melee won't make it.
For example, the Ice Climbers have been scrapped.

It's Metaknight, not Metakirby.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_uk/characters/index.html
Here are the character bios.
Watch the trailers (also on that site) to see the rest of the confirmed characters.

Most have probably done that already, but it's worth posting just in case.
The site is updated daily (except for weekends).

Metaknight, Metakirby, same thing... :P That was just off the top of my head.

Anyway, here's another link on the subject: link (http://wii.ign.com/articles/707/707504p1.html)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on June 18, 2007, 02:46:13 am
hey u adam, wen is my wii get fleas?
 :mean:

I was looking forward to it, so i hope it's still in development D:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 18, 2007, 03:16:44 am
Jigglypuff will make it back in. That character list is constantly being updated, so keep your eyes peeled.
The characters that have been featured in both of the other games are not going anywhere.

On the other hand, the Ice Climbers, and Game and Watch have been confirmed to have been axed.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: alkaline on June 18, 2007, 03:21:44 am
thank goodness, they were my least favorites of the bunch.  :y:

no new character will stop me from using link and samus though :yay:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Muffin on June 18, 2007, 04:58:34 am
I'm hoping Jigglypuff does make it to the next game. I bet he will, but I've read things in articles and game magazines saying how horrible playing with Jigglypuff is that makes me think otherwise. I believe it was Game Informer that said something on each character that mentioned how unentertaining controling Jigglypuff was. Not only that but all of my friends who I play it with say they could do without him. They think that 1 Pokemon is enough and why would they bother with a second.

In other off-topicness, studies show 70% of Superbowl watchers go to the bathroom during the commercials to catch the game, where as 10% would go to the bathroom during the game to catch those commercials. As for the other 20%, they have better things to do.

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on June 18, 2007, 05:32:15 am
In other off-topicness, studies show 70% of Superbowl watchers go to the bathroom during the commercials to catch the game, where as 10% would go to the bathroom during the game to catch those commercials. As for the other 20%, they have better things to do.

Hmm. I must be that extremely small percentage who tends to watch both the game AND the commercials without ever leaving his seat. "How?" you ask; adult diapers...They're fun for the whole family!!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 18, 2007, 05:35:55 am
Don't like Jiggly. Don't like Climbers. Don't like Watch. Good riddance to them all.

Anyone think any other non-ninty characters are gonna rear their heads for Brawl?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 18, 2007, 05:38:54 am
Don't like Jiggly. Don't like Climbers. Don't like Watch. Good riddance to them all.

Anyone think any other non-ninty characters are gonna rear their heads for Brawl?
pretty much everyone expects sonic, rayman would fit in too
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Muffin on June 18, 2007, 05:54:38 am
I would so totally love to see somebody from Animal Crossing in the new game. Possibly Tom Nook? (I hope I'm not the only one who plays AC...).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on June 18, 2007, 06:36:16 am
pretty much everyone expects sonic

NO!
nononono!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 18, 2007, 06:36:45 am
I could see Viewtiful Joe and Megaman there, but I guess it is not happening.
Sonic, I guess it could be there, but not Rayman (not to mention the fact that he kinda sucks)
I would like to see Tingle as a selectable character.
And I guess they will put that new fighting pokemon... er... what was it? Lucario or something.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 18, 2007, 06:49:01 am
ah viewtiful joe.. started off so promising, a cool new nintendo exclusive character...
then capcom immediately sold out and ported him to PS2 with several awful sequels.

Still, he could be a good addition, would probably have a really cool stage too

pretty much everyone expects sonic

NO!
nononono!
what's wrong with sonic? it's not like sega would be in charge of it
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Ragnarok on June 18, 2007, 06:54:13 am
Man, Grave of the Fireflies. I seen it and it totally destroyed me. Most evil antiwarfilm ever. VERY powerful stuff. Only saw it once.
Maybe I will watch it again when I feel entirely too happy sometime. :'(

Mmmm... Ditto! I still can't bring myself to watch it again. It's not by Ghibli, however.

I like Whisper of the Heart and The Cat Returns...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 18, 2007, 07:09:18 am
Oh man, Viewtiful Joe would fit perfectly.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Snippa on June 18, 2007, 08:42:48 am
megaman would be hard to fit into smash bros unless they gave him abilities from baddies in previous megaman games.
His biggest strength in his games were that once he defeated a boss, he gained their abilities... you can't technically do that in smash bros since the other characters aren't robots and don't have the chips he needs to take their abilities.

Megaman without extra abilities sucks :(
Sure, you could put him in just as normal megaman, with all his own abilities maxed out, but then he's just a weaker version of samus.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: fil_razorback on June 18, 2007, 11:22:14 am
Quote
Was grave of the Fireflies even Miyazaki, or was it just studio Ghibli? Well, Spirited away + Castle in the Sky = pwns them all.

Grave of the Fireflies was directed by Isao Takahata when Miyazaki was busy with Totoro. They were released simultaneously ^^
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Obsidian on June 18, 2007, 03:40:40 pm
pretty much everyone expects sonic

NO!
nononono!

Yea, I really hope they keep it at just Nintendo characters. I'm not a Sonic fan either.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 18, 2007, 04:03:27 pm
Solid Snake isn't a Nintendo character. He's already in it.
Personally I think it's stupid, but that's how it is. I don't think Sonic would fit the feel of the game at all though.
He's too... Sega. I'm not a fan of the upcoming Mario and Sonic at the Olympics game either.
Two franchises that should have never been mixed.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on June 18, 2007, 04:05:15 pm
Nothing to get your pants in a knot about.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 18, 2007, 06:00:49 pm
It's not going to prevent me from buying the game or anything.
I would just prefer it wasn't so.

I'm looking forward to Phantom Hourglass more than anything else.
Hopefully it will make up for how average Twilight Princess was. From what I've seen I'm pretty sure I already love it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Obsidian on June 18, 2007, 06:37:43 pm
It's not going to prevent me from buying the game or anything.
I would just prefer it wasn't so.

I'm looking forward to Phantom Hourglass more than anything else.
Hopefully it will make up for how average Twilight Princess was. From what I've seen I'm pretty sure I already love it.
Never heard of that one. Personally I'm looking forward to Super Mario Galaxy. Looks pretty sick from the videos I've seen.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 18, 2007, 07:23:58 pm
Oh yes, that as well.
Looks excellent.

My wish list:
1. Phantom Hourglass
2. Super Mario Galaxy
3. Super Smash Bros Brawl
4. Xbox 360 + Mass Effect

I currently have Ł100...
D:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 18, 2007, 08:06:57 pm
megaman would be hard to fit into smash bros unless they gave him abilities from baddies in previous megaman games.
His biggest strength in his games were that once he defeated a boss, he gained their abilities... you can't technically do that in smash bros since the other characters aren't robots and don't have the chips he needs to take their abilities.

Megaman without extra abilities sucks :(
Sure, you could put him in just as normal megaman, with all his own abilities maxed out, but then he's just a weaker version of samus.
Well Kirby had to absorb abilities in his games, too, but in smash bros, he had cutter, rock, fighter, hammer, and suplex built in.

I haven't got a problem with non-nintendo franchises being in Smash bros, but just make sure they fit. Megaman = ok. Sonic = not.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 18, 2007, 08:12:57 pm
There should be a requirement that the third party characters aren't bitter rivals of Mario.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 18, 2007, 09:41:37 pm
Sonic wouldn't fit cause his ability is running fast and wild, while in smash bros it's more like hand to hand combat. Sonic doesn't do that. He runs and rolls.
I kinda understand the sonic hate today, due to how they try to street cred him and all, but back in the 16bit era he ruled big time. Sonic 1-3 are still awesome games.

Megaman on the other hand is a lot like samus with his abilities.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 18, 2007, 09:59:12 pm
Quote
Sonic wouldn't fit cause his ability is running fast and wild, while in smash bros it's more like hand to hand combat. Sonic doesn't do that. He runs and rolls.

I'm sorry, I have to interject here though I have absolutely no interest in fandom chat about a video game like smash bros, but wait wait wait. So sonic doesn't fit in a hand to hand fight game because he's a runner, whereas Mario does, whose powers include fatness, high drug tolerance and constant failure at saving princesses?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: chigsam on June 18, 2007, 09:59:58 pm
Sakurai has said some characters from Melee won't make it.
For example, the Ice Climbers have been scrapped.

It's Metaknight, not Metakirby.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_uk/characters/index.html
Here are the character bios.
Watch the trailers (also on that site) to see the rest of the confirmed characters.

Most have probably done that already, but it's worth posting just in case.
The site is updated daily (except for weekends).

yes thats where i got the info. i saw wario on the pics just forgot to say him  :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 18, 2007, 10:08:57 pm
Well, let's see, I don't think samus ever punched in a Metroid game, and neither did Ganondorf in Zelda or Capt. Falcon in F-Zero, but they do in smash bros, so I don't see why they wouldn't be able to make Sonic punch. He'd be a Melee character, probably the fastest. His punches would be quick jabs, and one of his smash attacks would be like jigglypuff's (or yoshi's) wierd rolly thingy. He'd be really light though. He can bounce up and down in a ball as an attack...well, I'm not much of a sonic fan, so those are all his abilities that come to mind right now. There'd be no shortage of moves for him, though. I just don't think he'd fit because...well...he's lame.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 18, 2007, 10:16:12 pm
Quote
Sonic wouldn't fit cause his ability is running fast and wild, while in smash bros it's more like hand to hand combat. Sonic doesn't do that. He runs and rolls.

I'm sorry, I have to interject here though I have absolutely no interest in fandom chat about a video game like smash bros, but wait wait wait. So sonic doesn't fit in a hand to hand fight game because he's a runner, whereas Mario does, whose powers include fatness, high drug tolerance and constant failure at saving princesses?

Last time i checked Mario used his fists, legs, fireballs and waterguns as well as his butt to kill baddies(He's grown since the 8bit days u-know). But smash bros does have all kinds of guys there already, so i guess Sonic wouldn't be hard to trick in either. I was kinda just thinking out loud trying to figure out why he wouldn't fit, since someone before me said he wouldn't. Some of the newer sonic games had some character using Uzis if i remember correctly.

I guess they'd try to include every character possible anyway.

Personally i'd probably favor playing with Captain falcon just to get to yell FALCOOOOON PUNCH to the extent that it annoys the other players to bits.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Muffin on June 18, 2007, 11:00:04 pm
Can't Sonic do tornado to defeat his enemies?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 18, 2007, 11:05:23 pm
Sonic was awesome.  Then they made him talk, and gave him stupid sidekicks, and "free-roaming" hub levels...sigh

When he was spiky, blue, insanely fast, and didn't say shit - just killed robots and saved animals - that was an ok character!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 19, 2007, 12:04:56 am
Sonic was awesome.  Then they made him talk, and gave him stupid sidekicks, and "free-roaming" hub levels...sigh

When he was spiky, blue, insanely fast, and didn't say shit - just killed robots and saved animals - that was an ok character!
this is true.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 19, 2007, 01:23:05 am
I still have some love for sonic, I grew up with my brothers teaching me how to draw sonic getting his head chopped off, mario locking him in prison and throwing away the key etc.. but I always liked him, I was a little kid, and sega's shallow advertising worked :P
I remember going to my friends house, playing sega with him, and being all like "whoa, the ground's all curvy" since just about everything in mario games were made out of blocks at the time.

then like 10 years later or something, I decided to buy sonic advance, and it was pretty fun, not that great, but fun
then I bought sonic advance 2, and it kinda got me back into it, he was ridiculously fast in that game, had some cool effects, introduced the trick system, some really cool level design, and I liked how you were always running in the boss fights
even though sonic advance got me slightly interested in the 3d sonics, since there was a GBA-GCN link up thing, I had a look at the GCN box at a store and I could just tell it was bad, so I never bothered with the 3D games, and it seems to be pretty clear that sega still really doesn't know how to make a 3d sonic game.

So.. I've never really felt like sonic should just be hung up, because the 2D games are still good (except for advance 3), and I think sonic would fit in fine on SSBB, sega made that 3D fighting game on GBA with all the sonic characters, and I think it got pretty good reviews, plus SSBB's gameplay is 2D, sonic's bread and butter.


oh and the mario-sonic olympic game, one of the lamest announcements ever.
such an anticlimactic resolution to years of rivalry, it's meant to be like the final test to determine who is the ultimate mascot, but the olympics? thats so lame
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on June 19, 2007, 07:13:08 am
I haven't made pixel art in the longest time. I used to get inspired by editing stuff for critique and either deleting it or basing a critique around it, but lately I can't even force myself to work with pixels.

My spirit is dead, I feel.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 19, 2007, 07:24:01 am
Then do something about it.
Whining won't take you anywhere.


As for sonic, I've always been more of Knuckles fan (not only because he is red, but he looks more badass), but I kinda liked some of the 2d games.
Sonic games never left any special memories though. I remember playing them, and just that.
Oh, but I liked their weird catchy tunes, I esp. remember those in casino levels and all.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on June 19, 2007, 07:53:26 am
Quote
Then do something about it.
Whining won't take you anywhere.
You say that like I haven't tried. Thanks for nothing.

I've tried finding inspiration by looking into new artists, new mediums, even just going back to traditional mediums and then I come back to pixel art and it's like I don't feel it anymore. I've been in this strange phase for longer than I ever have been before. Usually they just go away, but this is going on 7 months now.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 19, 2007, 08:08:05 am
Don't just try, "do" instead.
If something doesn't work, keep moving on, look at stuff that inspires you, try new things, give yourself some project, work under restrictions, pixel things you enjoy, start pixelling for a game or something. There are countless options out there.
Or even better, try to find why you can't be bothered to. Too much work? Or perhaps you've become tired of it?
If anything then go with something else, after all pixel art isnt the only way.

But really, no one is going to feed you for just having your mouth open. So either find something that works for you, or starve.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on June 19, 2007, 10:45:36 am
Quote
Then do something about it.
Whining won't take you anywhere.
You say that like I haven't tried. Thanks for nothing.

I've tried finding inspiration by looking into new artists, new mediums, even just going back to traditional mediums and then I come back to pixel art and it's like I don't feel it anymore. I've been in this strange phase for longer than I ever have been before. Usually they just go away, but this is going on 7 months now.

I'd say, it's probably something that's holding you up emotionally. I've been having this feeling as well, and I sorta know that it has a lot to do with many aspects of my personal and emotional life being a bit messed up at times. When stuff starts to feel okay, I suddenly have the touch for pixels and pencil drawing and whatnot.

You sure there's not something around those lines that's holding you back?

And, well, Panda's kinda right aswell. But he's a bit harsh. Ultra-sissies like me can't take stuff like that, but I hope you can x]
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 19, 2007, 10:56:41 am
I find sacrificing goats to the dark lord always helps with motivation. That I have a big red timer above my head counting down to my death also helps!

Quote
Last time i checked Mario used his fists, legs, fireballs and waterguns as well as his butt to kill baddies(He's grown since the 8bit days u-know).

I don't really... uh... um, I don't really care. I shouldn't have gotten involved in this discussion.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 19, 2007, 11:49:14 am
Quote
Then do something about it.
Whining won't take you anywhere.
You say that like I haven't tried. Thanks for nothing.

I've tried finding inspiration by looking into new artists, new mediums, even just going back to traditional mediums and then I come back to pixel art and it's like I don't feel it anymore. I've been in this strange phase for longer than I ever have been before. Usually they just go away, but this is going on 7 months now.

Sooo, what do you do instead of pixel art? Sometimes people circle around in a deadly vicious cycle into complete idleness. I have a friend who hasn't been able to do anything for over a year other than idle and bathe in despair. Maybe you're missing something from the feedback loop of making pixel-art, you know, like putting effort, getting something in return. It's tough to do anything without returns, so everyone has SOME reason to doing whatever they do.

Quote from: Helm
I don't really... uh... um, I don't really care. I shouldn't have gotten involved in this discussion.

Don't take it too seriously  :)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 19, 2007, 12:47:05 pm
Well I have been in a similar situation as blick for about 2 years, but that is mostly due to laziness on my part.
I think the Nintendo Virtual Console is a really good way to get back into the mood to pixel. Or if you don't have that, I guess you could buy a gamepad adapter, hook your computer up to your tv, and play the roms. If you didn't grow up playing the Nes or Snes, but rather Arcade, or Atari, or C64 and etc. then play those instead.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on June 19, 2007, 01:33:51 pm
No Jigglypuff?  :'(

I pwnd with Jigglypuff.  Don't yell at me if he's already been scrapped in the newer game, though. All I have is the N64 game.

I could never beat the "break the targets" with Jigglypuff :'(...so I'll just stick with good ol Kirby :D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Obsidian on June 19, 2007, 02:57:58 pm
I could never beat the "break the targets" with Jigglypuff :'(...so I'll just stick with good ol Kirby :D

You have to use Jiggly's left+b move on the bottom part.
Anyway, I don't care for Jigglypuff either. Ice Climbers and Game and Watch going isn't a problem for me either; before melee I had never even heard of either of them.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 19, 2007, 03:07:30 pm
Jigglypuff isn't gone though, so I don't know why we're even discussing her leaving...
So far every character from the original Smash Bros has been confirmed to be in Brawl by Sakurai.
He also said that there would be no clones. So Ganondorf, Dr. Mario, and etc. are all out unless they get remade with new movesets.
Personally I'm hoping for Ganondorf to be a sword based character, and that they use his design from TP.
There's also a rumour that alt costumes will actually be costumes this time around, and not merely recolours.
I haven't heard anything official on this though.

Confirmed:

Mario
Donkey Kong
Link
Samus Aran
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox McCloud
Pikachu
Luigi
Ness
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Pit
Zero Suit Samus
Wario
Snake
Metaknight
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Obsidian on June 19, 2007, 03:15:36 pm
Marth's not in there yet?!?  :o
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 19, 2007, 03:46:36 pm
I really doubt that Marth will be in it.
Way more likely to be someone from the Gamecube Fire Emblem games, or the GBA ones.

Eliwood perhaps?
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/fe/fe7/art/eliwood.jpg
Or maybe this guy:
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/653/653496/fire-emblem-path-of-radiance-20050923024655943.jpg
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Obsidian on June 19, 2007, 03:48:42 pm
I really doubt that Marth will be in it.
Way more likely to be someone from the Gamecube Fire Emblem games, or the GBA ones.

Eliwood perhaps?
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/fe/fe7/art/eliwood.jpg
Or maybe this guy:
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/653/653496/fire-emblem-path-of-radiance-20050923024655943.jpg
Crap, he's the only character I ever use. Hopefully if they put someone else from Fire Emblem in, they'll be similar to Marth.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: alkaline on June 19, 2007, 03:53:36 pm
Or maybe this guy:
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/653/653496/fire-emblem-path-of-radiance-20050923024655943.jpg

ike? maybe, he is kindof similar to marth, they look pretty much the same eh, if they want to replace marth they should probably use some other more different character.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Ragnarok on June 19, 2007, 03:58:33 pm
Marth is great though...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Obsidian on June 19, 2007, 04:04:24 pm
Marth is great though...
Yea, I don't understand why they wouldn't include him, getting rid of just Roy would make sense, but both of them seems weird to me.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 19, 2007, 05:49:40 pm
Marth and Roy were included for promotional purposes.
Fire Emblem has since had 4(?) Western releases, and they will probably want to include characters that those western audiences are both familiar with, and like.
As for the comment about Ike and Marth being similar, aren't all Fire Emblem characters? There isn't much originality in those games.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: miascugh on June 19, 2007, 05:52:22 pm
Quote
I really doubt that Marth will be in it.
Way more likely to be someone from the Gamecube Fire Emblem games, or the GBA ones.

Eliwood perhaps?
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/fe/fe7/art/eliwood.jpg
Or maybe this guy:
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/653/653496/fire-emblem-path-of-radiance-20050923024655943.jpg

I'm not really interested in Smash Bros., but why Fire Emblem? I've only played the ones for GBA, but there wasn't a single memorable character in that game. Only generic fantasy anime faces talking corny pseudo-posh gibberish. Does that series even have a poster child?

edit: Too slow, but I still posted it
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on June 19, 2007, 08:31:41 pm
Quote
I'd say, it's probably something that's holding you up emotionally. I've been having this feeling as well, and I sorta know that it has a lot to do with many aspects of my personal and emotional life being a bit messed up at times. When stuff starts to feel okay, I suddenly have the touch for pixels and pencil drawing and whatnot.

You sure there's not something around those lines that's holding you back?
Well, I did start up or reinforce a couple addictions since I last pixelled. I imagine they're what helps me deal with stress rather than pixel art, which is what I used to do to get away from things for a few hours. Also, I'm working part time about to go full time which will surely destroy any attempt at rejuvenating my energy.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 19, 2007, 09:18:41 pm
i have too many ideas, but my skills arent good enough to pull them off, and if something isn't working out i just give up.  my pixelling motivation is at an all time low, i feel your pain.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on June 19, 2007, 10:38:16 pm
SINGING TESLACOIL!!!!!!! (http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gt/movies/2007/duckon/SingingTeslaShow.html)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on June 19, 2007, 11:12:29 pm
Awesome, Ptoing. I've seen a teslacoil play the Ghostbusters theme before. I have no idea how it works at all.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Kren on June 20, 2007, 04:21:07 am
i have too many ideas, but my skills arent good enough to pull them off, and if something isn't working out i just give up.  my pixelling motivation is at an all time low, i feel your pain.
I have the same problem, I start working with something, and after an hour or so, I realize that I dislike it, so instead of trying to improve it, I just close it without saving it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 20, 2007, 10:45:42 am
Playing Phantom Hourglass

Looks a lot better on the DS screens, has had nice cutscenes so far, intro is very cool too.
I'm having fun so far, despite it being all in japanese, man, they could've shown such better screenshots  :y:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 20, 2007, 10:54:14 am
Wait what? How'd you get your hands on it already? (hmm, runs to check the romsites... AHA)

Okay, you'll buy the game when it's released in english, right? Looks like we'll have to wait till the end of the year tho.
Man, i've been wanting to play Megaman ZX on DS for so long now, but it still hasn't been released in europe. The sequel is already out in japan.....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 20, 2007, 11:02:54 am
Can't wait to get my hands on Phantom Hourglass...
But soon once I go to Japan >:0

As for Megaman ZX's sequel, wasn't it coming out in July or am I mixing different games?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 20, 2007, 11:09:59 am
Wait what? How'd you get your hands on it already? (hmm, runs to check the romsites... AHA)

Okay, you'll buy the game when it's released in english, right? Looks like we'll have to wait till the end of the year tho.
Man, i've been wanting to play Megaman ZX on DS for so long now, but it still hasn't been released in europe. The sequel is already out in japan.....
yah ofcourse, even when I had my GBA flash cart I bought all the games I wanted.. ended up with 33 I think :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 20, 2007, 11:19:49 am
Yeah, just checked, the sequel(ZX advent) is coming next month in japan actually and the previous game is set for next week in europe.
ZX was released half a year ago in US, soo, i guess it's the same old story with having to translate the ingame texts to german and whatever.

I heard Phantom Hourglass got an almost perfect score on Famitsu, so i guess the delay was well worth it.

Oh and .Takam  :y:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 20, 2007, 11:23:02 am
I heard Phantom Hourglass got an almost perfect score on Famitsu, so i guess the delay was well worth it.
39/40 apparently  :y:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 20, 2007, 06:06:31 pm
yeah i need PH in my pants like NOW...also ZX is pretty sweet, but its really only a couple days worth of play i think, without much replay.  Hella pretty though!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 20, 2007, 06:40:24 pm
I've really enjoyed the Megaman Z series, especially with the ranking system. They're all pretty short if you don't care for ranks or unlockable items and such, but trying to get the perfect score is insanely hard and gives a great feeling of achievement. You get a totally different view of the levels when trying to go through at maximum speed, killing EVERYTHING and without taking any damage yourself. Kinda like doing a perfect speedrun.

I think every game should have this kind of speedrun/ranking system. Ninja Gaiden for example is a new game each time you aim for a higher rank, and again renewed when you start on a harder difficulty level. At the point where you really have to push Ryu to his limits it really starts to feel like you're a proper super ninja.

Then games like Contra are just plain hardcore and not so easy to access, so the system in Megaman Z gives a good game that's easy to access, as well as something for the totally hardcore people. I think today that games HAVE TO be more and more accessible to cover for rising developement costs, they sometimes forget smaller audiences that just don't get turned on by something too simple. This is why having something more deep hidden under an accessible shell is just perfect. Not to scare away too much, but also to give more if you so wish.

One time me and my friend were having a competition on who completes the first world of super mario world the fastest and it was so much fun.  :)

Oh and long story short: :y: Ranking systems  :y:

As for Phantom Hourglass... want it NAO! Maybe should consider importing from US when it's released, since DS is region free and sometimes the games are cheaper as well.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 20, 2007, 06:47:11 pm
I echo the sentiment for ranking systems. I love speedrunning stuff it is compelling even though I'm no master. You'll like the game we're putting out soon, huZba.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on June 20, 2007, 07:50:51 pm
I wonder what the deal with the DS and Europe is, anyway. It's a REALLY good thing it's region free so I can buy American games as soon as they come out.

Worst case so far: Metroid Prime Pinball. Released in the USA in October 2005.
Released in Europe: Tomorrow. Or the day after that.

Someone please explain what can possibly take so long to get a DS game, a PINBALL game none the less, out to the European market. It's not like it needs extensive translation. Even if it did, there'd only be a few sentences and random words to translate.

Now I'm waiting for MegaMan ZX Advent. I will buy it IF they fix the goddamn map already. I don't care if it's worse than the first, which was already mediocre at parts, a map that is actually USEFUL will automatically make it more enjoyable than the first game. Also, Ninja Gaiden DS. Ninja Gaiden DS blew my mind. I never saw it coming, I never saw the control system coming, I never saw the awesome graphics coming.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 20, 2007, 11:07:32 pm
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/797/797841/the-dark-knight-20070619051159737.jpg
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/797/797841/the-dark-knight-20070619051200455.jpg

Seriously, what happened to Batman trying to be somewhat realistic?
This is the worst design for a vehicle I've ever seen, and gund on the front?!
Gah.

Sometimes I wish I was supreme dictator of the world.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 20, 2007, 11:11:11 pm
haha rox wasn't metroid pinball made in the UK too?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Conzeit on June 20, 2007, 11:35:27 pm
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/797/797841/the-dark-knight-20070619051159737.jpg
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/797/797841/the-dark-knight-20070619051200455.jpg

Seriously, what happened to Batman trying to be somewhat realistic?
This is the worst design for a vehicle I've ever seen, and gund on the front?!
Gah.

Sometimes I wish I was supreme dictator of the world.

Hm, the general shape of the design reminds me of akira's bike, except for the humongous wheels.

I dont mind it really, it is obviously stilyzed and not meant to strafe, but I cant see why I it wouldnt work. I imagine it does some cross style action in keeping with the  all-terrain philosophy the batmobile had.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 21, 2007, 12:10:58 am
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/797/797841/the-dark-knight-20070619051159737.jpg
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/797/797841/the-dark-knight-20070619051200455.jpg

Seriously, what happened to Batman trying to be somewhat realistic?
This is the worst design for a vehicle I've ever seen, and gund on the front?!
Gah.

Sometimes I wish I was supreme dictator of the world.
Big wheels = cool, but that doesn't make up for the fact that the rest = lamest shit ever.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 21, 2007, 04:07:58 am
Exactly!
Look at the way he's sitting in it.
How am I meant to take him seriously in that thing?
More ninja, less gadgetry!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on June 21, 2007, 04:58:31 am
   I'm wondering that if the design of those huge wheels were meant for off-road type maneuvering, like the Batman begins bat mobile/hummer, than wouldn't that mean that those huge tires are meant for traction? As in, Batman has a cape...the cape just happens to flutter OPENLY, which seems to rest upon a giant exposed wheel, with no protective cover...wouldn't there be a huge possibility of the cape getting caught up in the back tire, thus dragging our dark, black night in shining armor into a giant wad of Gnarled, human flesh?

   New idea Christopher Nolan, just scrap the damn Bike all together......
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on June 21, 2007, 10:38:38 am
haha rox wasn't metroid pinball made in the UK too?

That seems to be true. It's crazy!

Also, the bat bike thing: WTF. I thought the Batman Begins batmobile was awesome and brutal, but this is just silly. You'd have absolutely no mobility with those enormous wheels. And isn't that one of the basic concepts around Batman? Mobility? His original Batmobile could turn on a dime and race around all quick like with unnatural acceleration due to that rad rocket engine thing. That rad aircraft he has is probably the smallest fighter plane in existance, perfect for urban air combat. And his gadgets all add to his mobility when outside of vehicles. Grappling hooks, wings for gliding... And then that bike shows up. How's that mobile? He couldn't squeeze into places other bikes would fit. It looks like it could hardly even turn.

And, oh yeah, the design is horrible.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Conzeit on June 21, 2007, 10:49:07 am
uh...why are you talking about Burton's batman while you comment on this Bike? they wouldnt re-start the series just to keep doing the same old thing.

this is a new concept for batman, it's more about brute force from what I gather, and all terrain movement...the cape thing does seem a little ridiculous but...I think from the side shot there is at 00:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7VCDQ_hM-Y here that he might be ok.

what DOES bug me a lot, is why are the machineguns at the front tire? if he was to go trough any rough terrain at all those thing would probably get stuck anywhere...I'm giving this guy some credit and waiting to see what it's special features are....sorry to not jump into your hype guys :p
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 21, 2007, 10:56:10 am
Ninja gaiden DS totally amazed me too. As for Metroid pinball, maybe i'll finally get it today  :lol:

About the batman bike... to me it seems to defy all logic. A bike would never need that kind of wheels. For offroad you use thinner tires in order for them to bite in the ground. Gravel tires on rally cars are 50% thinner than tarmac tires. Pretty much the same for motorbikes. Also those tires on batpod are almost slicks, they would NEVER work on gravel. Unless this thing is supposed to go on water..... Then again, i really wouldn't mind if it didn't look practical, as long as it didn't look silly.
I really liked the batman begins car tho.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Conzeit on June 21, 2007, 11:07:26 am
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/i.m-batman/batmans-motorcycle-revealed-269852.php
Aznbuddy   says:

Apparently, the engines are in each tire and there's a bit o' transforming going on for it to go closer to the ground. Fully practical vehicle. And by "practical" I mean "it works in real-life" movie lingo...not..."Honey, I have to go to the store to get some milk. I'll be right back."


and who's AznBuddy to be saying that? hell if I know, but it goes to show that judging something which has been put to so much practical proof and designing cant be judged from a feeble first impression.

I just realized, the first pic of the batsuit precedes this one, the policecar that he stands on in the batsuit photo is the one behind the Batpod in this one....that make me slow?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 21, 2007, 11:28:54 am
Uhm... I'm not really hyped about batman. I always loved the batcave concept though, but overall never fascinated me.
It always felt like he was a superhero wannabe rather tha one himself. And on top of that, for some reason I was always more attracted to villians.
And yeah whatever about that bike, looks horrible (and dangerous for the rider, esp. if you are going to get attacked and all) regardless the explanation they have behind it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on June 21, 2007, 04:35:59 pm
   May be a bit rant-ish, but may I suggest we put some type of SMALL marquee banner below the news box(or maybe even in the news box, possibly replacing the "tank by Opacus" pic, seeing as how it's been there...forever) that reads " Shit that still needs a-fixin': Avatars, Insert Quote link, etc..."
   In other words, can there be some shiny, eye catching pic on the front page that lets new users aware of current tools that are down at the moment. It's not necessarily their fault, as I would probably ask the same question if I were new also. Then again, they could always read the "RULES: READ BEFORE POSTING" thread...but seriously, who ever reads those damn things. I've recently read some of the stuff in there for the first time, since they've been there. You could probably post nudie pics, and probably get away scott free. I probably can place a safe bet that some of the older members haven't read stuff in there either. I swear, if I hear the question " where do I go to insert my avatar?" one more time, I'm going to go friggin' bonkers!!!!

(not trying to be dick, by the way...well...TRYING not to....)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 21, 2007, 05:07:31 pm
Yeah but then again I think people really don't READ stuff even on the front page and go ahead and ask questions anyway.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 21, 2007, 09:16:03 pm
I echo the sentiment for ranking systems. I love speedrunning stuff it is compelling even though I'm no master. You'll like the game we're putting out soon, huZba.

I'm getting excited allready.

Since Contra 4 was announced i just had to go back to Super Contra once more for old times sake. I've played through it at least a 100 times (it was the only game we played for a looooong time when i was a kid) and those bosses still give me the creeps. The kind of oppressive nature of the game, the music and weird designs make an uncomfortable atmosphere (in a good way). There's also great pace and variety in the levels. Solid gameplay also makes it feel like whenever you fail, it really is you failing and you can't blame gameplay quirks. Finishing it on the hardest level totally destroyed my thumbs and i think i pretty much gave up on the last boss just spamming bombs and expanding the lives i had collected on previous playthroughs.

Shattered soldier was pretty close with the level of manliness and difficulty level, but Neo Contra was just way too easy. The intro was made of pure testosterone and awesome tho.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on June 23, 2007, 01:08:55 pm
I echo the sentiment for ranking systems. I love speedrunning stuff it is compelling even though I'm no master. You'll like the game we're putting out soon, huZba.

Thrustburst?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Opacus on June 23, 2007, 01:09:56 pm
Finally 16 today :0
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 23, 2007, 01:19:26 pm
Happy 16, Opacus.

Evil: yeeeees
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 23, 2007, 01:24:32 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GMMN2LVhr0

Neo Contra is in fact so manly, it's totally okay to load up ammo in clips and generally handle live ammunition while smoking.

edit: holy shit, you're not freakin' kidding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voICcLiEuVo

my penis grew an inch just by watching these.

phallic guns? Yes. Phallic rocket launchers cradled in the lap of both protagonists? Yes. Phallic space station? Yes. Phallic space station ejaculates on earth-like planet, destroying it? yes. MAIN PROTAGONISTS RIDING A PHALLIC WHALE?

THE CROWNING GLORY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RCmbIwizjY&mode=related&search=
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on June 23, 2007, 04:53:41 pm
Ahahahaha, man that last one is soooo hilarious. But yes indeed, lots of homoerotic connotations in there.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on June 23, 2007, 06:37:15 pm
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/ _effin' drool_
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 23, 2007, 07:10:37 pm
Thrustburst?

yeah, how long til this is out.  I played a demo a few months ago and it was going quite nice then,  :0'
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 23, 2007, 07:30:48 pm
Soon.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 24, 2007, 12:28:03 am
any chance of a port to mac, i really hate moving to a PC, its just degrading.

No im not looking for a MAC vs PC fight, i've already won enough of them!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on June 24, 2007, 12:40:44 am
Pretty low chances there I think. U-Head on the other hand will be win, osx and *nix.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on June 24, 2007, 01:55:59 pm
I've been staring at the Transformers game trailers, video clips, intro sequence and interviews lately... That game looks so damn promising. I pray to the Nine that it turns out a playable product, and not just a good concept gone to waste because of greedy designers working off a guaranteed-to-sell license...

And also, the prerendered intro makes me drool. Check it out on Gametrailers (http://www.gametrailers.com/game/4769.html).

The new robot designs also make more and more sense the more you stare at them. Which is good, because when I first saw them I instantly thought the movie was beyond saving just because of the designs. But now they make sense!


[edit] Damn... Helm. Damn. I mean, what? Holy damn! [/edit]
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 24, 2007, 04:28:41 pm
Anyone got any favourite recipes?
I'm cooking later this week, and I wanna make something new.
got a lot of chicken breasts incase anyone has a good chicken recipe
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on June 24, 2007, 05:15:10 pm
Anyone remember that game Nun'n'Guns or something like that? Someone was showing off some screenshots on pixelation a long time ago, and it's about the only game I remember from such a time. It looked pretty fun, did it ever get off?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on June 24, 2007, 06:10:37 pm
Ask ensellitis or however you spell it.
or maybe it was entivore...

:|


Can anyone recommend a guide to writing a first design document?
or is the process painfully simple?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on June 24, 2007, 07:22:46 pm
Can anyone recommend a guide to writing a first design document?
or is the process painfully simple?
How you do it is just a matter of preference. Just try, and be at least a little organized.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on June 24, 2007, 07:57:50 pm
Figures as much.
everything has to be complicated with me :|

thanks for the words of encouragement
Quote from: Sherman Gill
try
:')
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on June 24, 2007, 08:01:17 pm
Anyone remember that game Nun'n'Guns or something like that? Someone was showing off some screenshots on pixelation a long time ago, and it's about the only game I remember from such a time. It looked pretty fun, did it ever get off?
Yeah a demo was finished. I saw it on the Eatpoo forums almost two years ago. I'd tried doing a search there. If that doesn't help, I've got some pics I saved from the Eatpoo thread I could send you. Just send me a PM
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on June 24, 2007, 08:38:04 pm
THE CROWNING GLORY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RCmbIwizjY&mode=related&search=
Sorry for dbl post but WTF??!! Yes.Yes. Yes.... Gah My mind imploded and now there's sticky stuff....ewrgh. Ninja man blows up the Earth so blondie can stare at his junk for eternity...? I... ugh... This game was going cheap at Wal-mart a month ago and now I'M VERY GLAD I DIDN'T GET IT!!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faktablad on June 24, 2007, 08:45:53 pm
I find this so true. 
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=224 (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=224)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on June 25, 2007, 02:36:24 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqFOB77jLaE

Whoa. Drawing with HTML.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 25, 2007, 07:28:18 am
Another day, another update:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_uk/characters/zelda.html

This time it's Zelda. I wonder if she'll still be able to transform into Shiek.
I hope so.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on June 25, 2007, 02:42:45 pm
It's nice Zelda's out..but I'd rather for the game to jsut realease :'(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on June 25, 2007, 05:08:58 pm
It's nice Zelda's out..but I'd rather for the game to jsut realease :'(
Aw come on, it's gonna take the same amount of time either way, so it's nice to have these snippets of information to keep us interested, no? :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: miascugh on June 25, 2007, 09:27:56 pm
http://www.dailymotion.com/group/11913/tag/tracks/video/x1d366_pixel-art-l

A short feature on Pixel Art that was aired some time ago, in French, and mostly about French commercial non-game pixels, and also about Eboy. I really liked the little buggers with their blocky intestines.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Lee N on June 25, 2007, 09:40:39 pm
got this today.. it's nice so far.

(http://nihon.se/zeldaph.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 25, 2007, 10:26:45 pm
go

to

hell
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Lee N on June 25, 2007, 10:57:14 pm
go

to

hell
???

I'm sorry, but was that aimed at me?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: fawel on June 25, 2007, 11:46:14 pm
Yes it was Lee.  I wouldn't be surprised if more than half the this forum's members would shell out $70 for that game right now.  Including me  :hehe:

Please tell us more about the game!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 25, 2007, 11:55:15 pm
i dont see anyone else here with phantom hourglass, so yes, it was aimed SOLELY AT YOU.  you suck.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on June 26, 2007, 12:14:42 am
I always thought it looked mediocre... I guess now is the time to find out if it got better than the first preview hinted at!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on June 26, 2007, 12:58:10 am
Yes it was Lee.  I wouldn't be surprised if more than half the this forum's members would shell out $70 for that game right now.  Including me  :hehe:

Please tell us more about the game!

please don't, im guessing im in the half not whilling to pay out Ł35 for a game.  A nintendo game at that!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Flame on June 26, 2007, 01:01:06 am
Just ordered mine a couple days ago from play asia. Hopefully it would come soon. But I really want to get Jump Ultimate Stars ._. Heard it plays like SSBM so I must get it D:

Or I can get a rom for my r4 flashcard ._.

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on June 26, 2007, 02:37:55 am
It's nice Zelda's out..but I'd rather for the game to jsut realease :'(
Aw come on, it's gonna take the same amount of time either way, so it's nice to have these snippets of information to keep us interested, no? :P

Eh fair enough..I jsut can't wait to get that game in my hands...any ideas if it will be playable multiplayer, via wi-fi?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 26, 2007, 02:47:53 am
Hell yes.

Or else I will kill.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 26, 2007, 08:47:01 am
Yes it was Lee.  I wouldn't be surprised if more than half the this forum's members would shell out $70 for that game right now.  Including me  :hehe:

Please tell us more about the game!

Eh... I wouldn't pay 70 bucks for a DS game. Regardless of how much I want it. Even if it is a Zelda game (unless it comes with fancy extras and all).

And if you want spoilers go around youtube or some gaming sites as they have the first minutes of play and what not (which I've been avoiding to watch)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Lee N on June 26, 2007, 08:52:50 am
Please tell us more about the game!
please don't

I don't want to spoil the game for anyone, but I can say that this is a fantastic part in the Zelda series.. I'm a few hours in and so far the game has been really clever and diverse. The stylus controls work perfectly in my opinion, they have managed to strip down the entire control scheme to just the stylus and make everything context sensitive - and yet it still feels like a true Zelda game. Granted I'm already eased in to the idea of playing with a stylus from playing lots of other DS games, but if you're still a bit iffy about the stylus controls.. try to give this game a chance anyway since it really deserves it.

If any of you have any questions about the specifics in this game, I'd be happy to answer them in PM to keep this thread spoiler free.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 27, 2007, 04:16:49 am
Ive gone back to windwaker to slow myself down a bit with phantom hourglass (wanna wait for the english release)
and it really puts the controls in perspective, stuff like picking up and throwing puts etc feels so much more natural with the stylus
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: rabidbaboy on June 27, 2007, 04:39:51 am
I was saving to buy myself a DS just for Phantom Hourglass, but turns out I'll have to use it for school expenses.  :yell:

And now reading about how good the controls are (compared to WW, no less), just reminded me of this.

 :'(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 27, 2007, 12:29:55 pm
I'm getting back into where I left off with Metroid Prime Echoes, just beat Quadraxis and got the light suit  :)

Man, Quadraxis must be one of the greatest bosses ever, I actually vsed him 3 times- the first I died because I thought I could beat him with not much health, no light/dark ammo and only a dozen or so missiles :P, then I vsed him twice again because he was so awesome :y:
The dark suit already looked very cool, but the light suit just looks so damn awesome, makes all those little 10 second loading scenes that extra bit better :)

To be harshly honest, I'm not enjoying Echoes as much as the first prime (hard to best).
Mainly because the backtracking is rather excessive and I just preferred prime's world better, I know its rather cliched having an ice world, a lava world, a water world etc but it all felt so believable and filled with culture.
Whereas the Echoes world is just a bit too similar all round, I suppose it's more realistic that way, but with such contrasting areas in the first Prime, it made each and every room so easy to remember, and in Echoes, you could swap rooms and areas from different 'worlds' and they wouldn't seem completely out of place.. Anywho, Quadraxis makes it all worth it (there wasn't much to redeem really though ;))
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: chigsam on June 27, 2007, 01:32:39 pm
Great news! my computer has a virus! Now it closes out of everything randomly!!!!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on June 27, 2007, 04:33:04 pm
yeah quadraxis was the highlight of echoes for sure...sorry to say but its all downhill from there :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: chigsam on June 27, 2007, 04:40:53 pm
yes he was pretty fun. isnt he the big worm? i remember his name but not what he looks like, if he is the worm hes the best boss ever!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 27, 2007, 04:45:53 pm
Never really gave it much thought, but now that you mentioned it, i can clearly remember every level and some rooms almost perfectly from Metroi prime, whereas i can't remember many from echoes. When i played prime for the first time, the whole world seemed so new and i went everywhere scanning all the bits of info and going "OOOOH" "WHOOO" "INTERESTING". In echoes the dark worlds were kind of cool, but i didn't feel like an explorer anymore. I still liked echoes, it's a really good game and i enjoyed every bit, but not as much as the first one. Oh and concept art by that Android guy, what was his real name? very nice stuff. His style is very present in the game graphics.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: LoTekK on June 27, 2007, 04:51:56 pm
Just got back from the premiere of Transformers. First, a disclaimer: yes, the drama and comedy and very much Michael Bay (ie, generally painful). That said... damn, watching those big robots get around, transform, fight, etc, was simply awesome. Watching it again tomorrow, since I already bought tickets, hee hee. :p The fact that Megan Fox looks smoking hot doesn't hurt, either. ^_^

PS. Don't ask me why Singapore got the release a week earlier than everywhere else, because I have no clue. I'm confused myself, but I'm certainly not complaining
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 27, 2007, 05:22:00 pm
yeah quadraxis was the highlight of echoes for sure...sorry to say but its all downhill from there :P
having to find another nine keys is really lame, at least its not too much of a challenge and some of them have little puzzles to figure out in order to get the key

yes he was pretty fun. isnt he the big worm? i remember his name but not what he looks like, if he is the worm hes the best boss ever!
the big (giant) security robot spider ;)

I can't remember if it's ever been discussed here, but Metroid Prime 3:
Man I am so psyched for the game, I can't remember what magazine it was, but they said they think it will revolutionize the FPS genre, I doubt MP3 will be an FPS considering the first two weren't, but with more responsive controls it might end up with a bigger emphasis on shooting ???
whatever, my most anticipated Wii title easily, looking forward to some new footage from e3 :)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 27, 2007, 06:17:12 pm
That reminds me, I never did finish Echoes. It was a rental and I'd just intended on blazing through it just to say I did, but then it was due and I never rerented it. Forgot where I was, though.

I haven't been keeping up with MP3, though.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zero on June 27, 2007, 07:17:18 pm
I haven't been keeping up with MP3, though.

Probably not the best appreviation to give it... :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 27, 2007, 07:20:53 pm
Hahaha, "Corruption"
I didn't even notice that.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 28, 2007, 12:57:41 pm
Just got back from the premiere of Transformers. First, a disclaimer: yes, the drama and comedy and very much Michael Bay (ie, generally painful). That said... damn, watching those big robots get around, transform, fight, etc, was simply awesome. Watching it again tomorrow, since I already bought tickets, hee hee. :p The fact that Megan Fox looks smoking hot doesn't hurt, either. ^_^

PS. Don't ask me why Singapore got the release a week earlier than everywhere else, because I have no clue. I'm confused myself, but I'm certainly not complaining
went to see it tonight, awesome movie, some scenes are a little cheesy, but definitely glad I went to see it.

theatre was full and probably 90% male, actually heard a few "YEAH!"s at certain points :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 28, 2007, 01:23:32 pm
I don't think I could bring myself to stomach that abomination they're calling Transformers.
Way to fuck up the classic designs of every single last Transformer Michael Bay. May you never touch one of my childhood memories again.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on June 28, 2007, 01:26:55 pm
I don't think I could bring myself to stomach that abomination they're calling Transformers.
Way to fuck up the classic designs of every single last Transformer Michael Bay. May you never touch one of my childhood memories again.
bah, the simpler designs from the cartoons were a necessary compromise, if they had the tools and technology they probably would've designed the transformers like that in the first place.
only thing I thought was a bit ridiculous was megatron turning into a jet, I mean he had been frozen for thousands of years, when did he scan a jet?

edit-
the new transformer toys however, are a complete disgrace, half of them don't even transform  :mean:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 28, 2007, 03:30:34 pm
I wonder what toys you've been checking, cause the ones i've bought have been the coolest i've seen so far, and i've seen a lot. There's those bulky kids toys and waterguns and whatever, but they don't really count.

The proper toys do transform, most of them have parts that when you move one piece it transforms other bits.
And the concept of the whole series has been transforming all the time from those early blocky toys that originated from japan to some rather obscure things like beast wars.

Oh and faceless, you're joking right? That sentence is pretty much exactly what has already evolved to an internet MEME that is copypasted to every single transformers thread.

[Edit] Takam, i haven't seen the movie yet, but megatron's been a jet/robot since his days on cybertron. Just not a human jet. They constantly change their alt. mode.

Onto other news, i found the Dune spice opera soundtrack by Stéphane Picq. Really nice stuff. Did some checkin and seems like he's done music to a lot of games i used to play back in the day, like megarace.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on June 28, 2007, 04:18:37 pm
Well, I do have to agree that I would have preferred cleaner designs for the transformers (like the old ones).
I like transformers as much as the next guy, but the new designs are ugh. They have so many pieces everywhere to the point where you don't really know what is what. Even the movie poster makes you wonder if they just put textures randomly.

But then again, looking forward to watch the film.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: LoTekK on June 28, 2007, 05:05:44 pm
While the new designs may be noisier, on the whole I think they work (megatron being an exception here, he's way too noisy for his own good, and ironhide is toeing the line). As for the argument about Bay shitting all over your classics, let's be honest here, the Transformers as a toyline and a cartoon have been evolving ever since the original toyline (ie, before they were called Transformers). Hell, the Alternators line was probably my favorite in recent memory, and those used modern vehicles and changed the look of the characters quite drastically. Point was, they looked cool.

And I agree with huZba on the toys. Not all are cool (the cheaper line is a little meh), but Prime and Starscream are definite standouts, imho.

As for the jet thing, he wasn't an earth jet, he was in his original alien craft form.

Also, while some of the nostalgia throwbacks were rather cheesy, most were quite awesome. "Starscream, you have failed me once again." Hee hee hee. xD
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on June 28, 2007, 11:21:33 pm
Haha, I keep forgetting it's my birthday. 17 ftw!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on June 29, 2007, 03:40:29 am
Happy Birthday Xion.

@huZba:
Absolutely serious. I take the fact that so many people are saying it as proof that I'm right.
They've updated some of the designs in the comics and they still manage to remain loyal to the originals.
Furthermore, the original designs look at least 10x tougher than the new ones.

What was so wrong with the old designs that they had to make the new ones unrecognisable?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on June 29, 2007, 04:36:26 pm
Holy primus i couldn't believe my eyes when i was on my way home from work.

In front of a big movie theather they had set up a transformers themed stage. They had transformers music playing in the backround and some shrilankan dancers doing robot while the crowd cheered for them. The guys were quite skilled too. I got goosebumbs for the sheer coolness....

Oh and happy birthday Xion!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on June 29, 2007, 11:50:56 pm
Has anyone read Civil War by Marvel? It's a good read.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 29, 2007, 11:57:51 pm
Awful comics.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on June 29, 2007, 11:59:43 pm
D: ...... I don't know how to respond to that.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on June 30, 2007, 12:00:36 am
Matter of taste.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on June 30, 2007, 12:03:55 am
Eh yeah, I can see why people wouldn't like it, it really messed up that universe....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Conzeit on June 30, 2007, 01:08:39 am
I think that's on the wrong track with Helm, he says Frank Miller makes awful writing so  :P

um, am I not alone or is NO_ONE else missing all the banners and operation options that usually appear on the top part of the forum?



Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: robalan on June 30, 2007, 02:09:19 am
Just a guess, but did you click the little arrow button to the left of the home link?  It makes everything between the main Pixelation banner and the Home, Help, Search, Profile, and Login links disappear.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Conzeit on June 30, 2007, 02:21:54 am
now dont let's just pretend that never happened, ok?  :-[
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on June 30, 2007, 04:13:19 am
Speaking of comics, can anyone recommend any good cyberpunkish/dystopian future ones?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 01, 2007, 04:20:38 pm
I dug this up for a thread over at TIGSource, but I thought you guys might get a kick out of it.  This is, with the exception of some MSPaint stuff when I was middle school, I *think* the first pixel art I ever made:

(http://adam.lastchancemedia.com/sprites/jetball.gif)

It was for a game I programmed in the fall of 2003 in about 120 hours.  I think I was 21.  So all you 17 year old kids on here who are already way better than I was at 21...I hate you.  I used an existing engine called DXFramework or something like that.  It was okay, nothing amazing but not really bad (aside from being like a bloated 10mb).  I also did the atrocious music :D  Cool features include being able to change all the levels and gfx and the level select menu externally, and decent 2 player gameplay. Horrible, horrible aspects include AI i wrote in one night, abominable music, some buggy collisions here and there, and the pixel "art" :D

EDIT: I thought I should upload the game's title screen too, for full newb-tastic frikkin horrible pixel art maximization:

(http://adam.lastchancemedia.com/sprites/jetball_title.gif)

Check THAT out.

You know what lets keep the flood of frikkin awful old pixel art going, shall we?  A couple months after I finished the game I did my first ever mockup as a gift for my dad, who worked this pretty dull job in an office building in Arizona at the time:

(http://adam.lastchancemedia.com/art/zombie_office.jpg)

We all have to start somewhere right :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: LoTekK on July 01, 2007, 04:59:02 pm
It was for a game I programmed in the fall of 2003 in about 120 hours.  I think I was 21.  So all you 17 year old kids on here who are already way better than I was at 21...I hate you.
Way to make me feel like an old fart. :p
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on July 01, 2007, 06:10:44 pm
Speaking of comics, can anyone recommend any good cyberpunkish/dystopian future ones?
Both V for Vendetta and The Watchmen are awesome for that, I'm thinkin', Darien.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 01, 2007, 06:32:42 pm
Akira is really awesome too!  Y: The Last Man and Ghost in the Shell aren't bad either...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: philipptr on July 01, 2007, 06:40:09 pm
OT question:
I have continued working on a game I have posted a thread on some while ago (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=3145 (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=3145)), and need some critism again. So should I resurect the old thread land add everything I want to show about this project there, ike for example adarias did with Partisan, or should I create a new thread and avoid bumping the old thread?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: LoTekK on July 01, 2007, 06:40:27 pm
Not cyberpunk, but somewhat dystopian: Minute of Angle (http://www.rowancassidy.com/)
The artwork is lovely, very loose.

philipp, I haven't been here too long, but it would probably make sense to revive the thread. On most forums thread revival is only frowned upon if it's someone else bumping it after a long period of inactivity.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: robalan on July 01, 2007, 08:37:39 pm
Yeah, if you're bumping your own thread with new work, nobody should complain.

Both V for Vendetta and The Watchmen are awesome for that, I'm thinkin', Darien.
Indeed, those are both quite good.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Akira on July 01, 2007, 11:42:53 pm
Akira is really awesome too!

I should collect all these out of context quotes and make a signature out of them. Man, I would look so awesome.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on July 02, 2007, 08:17:41 pm
Hey, hee, hum!
My first thief!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFSoLTdC-Bw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFSoLTdC-Bw)
 :n: :yell: :n:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 02, 2007, 10:15:05 pm
Can someone please tell my why I get so much pleasure from complaining about stuff on Youtube? I can just click on random videos and find several seriously written replies that I can just... drive to the ground with counter-arguments and stuff...

It's almost as if I'm trying to compensate for something? But it can't be my own art, music, or earlier video work... Because when I look at most of my own finished pieces, I feel surprised that somethnig that good came from my own hands. I seriously underestimate myself at times. So... why the hell does it feel so good to find one of those MS Paint cars on Youtube and just... complain about it? I don't get it. It's not like I WANT to complain.

Although it does feel good...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on July 03, 2007, 12:10:27 am
you feel good when you're masterdebating, sounds normal to me.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 03, 2007, 12:53:59 am
You think you're being useful when all you're doing is wasting your time.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 03, 2007, 01:12:05 am
having to find another nine keys is really lame, at least its not too much of a challenge and some of them have little puzzles to figure out in order to get the key

I loved Prime, but I have to agree, for some reason Echoes doesn't really float too well with me. The backtracking does seem a lot worse in it, and I also hate finding those keys. The clues are so vague, and I swear I've looked everywhere for them but never found them all and stopped playing. It feels like the triforce pieces for WW all over again.
Maybe I'll try getting back into it, I dunno, I just got Pokemon Diamond so that'll probably keep me occupied for a while.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on July 03, 2007, 11:37:46 pm
you feel good when you're masturbating, sounds normal to me.


Fixed.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 05, 2007, 01:32:32 am
So, I just upgraded Firefox after a few days of it nagging me to do it. And I kinda like the older version better... This one makes gif animations stutter when I have too many tabs open. The old version didn't. This one also allows fewer tabs on the screen before you have to scroll among them. Which suddenly makes tabs a lot less useful. I prefer tiny icons to pick from rather than having to scroll back and forth to find what I'm looking for. It also annoys me that they suddenly put the "close tab" button in the same place as IE. I liked always having it in the same corner of the screen. Makes it a lot easier to skim quickly through a lot of tabs, which I do very often. Just hovering the mouse up there and clicking the little red X until I find something new and/or interesting.

Anyone know of any way to fix any of that? It's strange how a new, "improved" version manages to change so many things that made me like Firefox in the first place...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 05, 2007, 01:43:26 am
judging by the amount of ranting about stuff you like and don't like I think you need a blog :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 05, 2007, 01:59:58 am
So, I just upgraded Firefox after a few days of it nagging me to do it. And I kinda like the older version better... This one makes gif animations stutter when I have too many tabs open. The old version didn't. This one also allows fewer tabs on the screen before you have to scroll among them. Which suddenly makes tabs a lot less useful. I prefer tiny icons to pick from rather than having to scroll back and forth to find what I'm looking for. It also annoys me that they suddenly put the "close tab" button in the same place as IE. I liked always having it in the same corner of the screen. Makes it a lot easier to skim quickly through a lot of tabs, which I do very often. Just hovering the mouse up there and clicking the little red X until I find something new and/or interesting.

Anyone know of any way to fix any of that? It's strange how a new, "improved" version manages to change so many things that made me like Firefox in the first place...
I've stopped using winamp because it asks me to update every time I use it, the first or second time I said "fine, update it then"
I have to visit their site and go through the process all over again, not like it's complicated or anything, but it should be built in like all programs, click update, progress bar, done. :n:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on July 05, 2007, 02:05:16 am
So, I just upgraded Firefox after a few days of it nagging me to do it. And I kinda like the older version better... This one makes gif animations stutter when I have too many tabs open. The old version didn't. This one also allows fewer tabs on the screen before you have to scroll among them. Which suddenly makes tabs a lot less useful. I prefer tiny icons to pick from rather than having to scroll back and forth to find what I'm looking for. It also annoys me that they suddenly put the "close tab" button in the same place as IE. I liked always having it in the same corner of the screen. Makes it a lot easier to skim quickly through a lot of tabs, which I do very often. Just hovering the mouse up there and clicking the little red X until I find something new and/or interesting.

Anyone know of any way to fix any of that? It's strange how a new, "improved" version manages to change so many things that made me like Firefox in the first place...
I know Seamonkey (An open source derivative of FF) runs way way smoother than Firefox, which fixes the GIF stuttering.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Akira on July 05, 2007, 02:15:30 am
I've stopped using winamp...
Might i suggest songbird (http://www.songbirdnest.com/)? its still got lotsa bugs and stuff but its starting to look pretty good. Still not sure about the browser though.
Winamp updates are bullshit. They only ever seem to add crap to the media library that you don't need. And not fix the bugs with the skins :n:.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 05, 2007, 09:36:20 am
http://uk.media.tv.ign.com/media/945/945821/img_4653798.html
I don't know what to think... I don't know what to say...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 05, 2007, 02:06:29 pm
ah jesus christ

if you're not bruce timm...you should never ever try to draw like bruce timm.  ever.  I hate that people think that the key to B:TAS's success was the animation style, rather than the high quality writing, acting, music, and overall production values contributing to an original sense of atmosphere and quality.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 05, 2007, 02:08:37 pm
Saw the movie yesterday and i've been seeing transformers everywhere... it's like all the cars around are just about to transform.
The movie was made of robots, battle and awesome. Autobots were funky (especially jazz) and the decepticons were quite sceary.
Also it had so many little things happening in the backround that i just have to see the movie again if i could spot some more. I think starscream took a shot at megatron's back, but i'm not completely sure. Anyway, not gonna rant more to avoid spoiling it to anyone.

http://uk.media.tv.ign.com/media/945/945821/img_4653798.html
I don't know what to think... I don't know what to say...

Hehe, it has "cartoon network" written all over it. Looks kinda nice imo, but it's probably aimed at 10 year olds that usually watch the channel. Gonna check it out anyway, cause you never know. They made that batman cartoon in a similar style and first i was like ehhhhh, but it was actually allright.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 05, 2007, 02:46:09 pm
I saw it too, I was pretty disappointed.  Well, not disappointed, as I didn't go in with any actual expectations, just unsatisfied I guess.  To me, there are really only 2 absolutes in the Transformers universe:

1 - Starscream will actively attempt to usurp the Decepticon throne
2 - Prime is the baddest motherf*cker on the planet, and likely in the galaxy

In the new movie, Prime was a total pussy who got his ass handed to him by Megatron (who was inexpicably like 20 feet taller than all the other transformers??), and Starscream lacked personality.  Of course, ALL the characters in the movie lacked personality.  They were plot devices, not people.  The plot, even just sticking to the story laid out by the film, makes NO f*cking sense whatsoever.  At 2.5 hours, we don't get to see prime for the first hour, and Megatron is not even mentioned in the first 90 minutes.  And this is a TRANSFORMERS movie???  Exactly WHO are they introducing these characters to?  Is there somebody out there going to see this movie that DOESN'T remember Optimus Prime?  I mean come on!  On top of that, and this doesn't really qualify as a spoiler, the final battle scene takes place in a cramped, crowded city.  That's right - characters who can, at will, transform into flying and driving vehicles duke it out in a civilian population center, and in like a 2 block radius at that.  I don't care who you are or how many paint chips you ate as a kid, that is just retarded.

On the upside, both Prime and Starscream do get one decent action scene.  But it adds up to maybe 4 minutes worth of screen time, out of two and a half hours worth.  If you have any attachment to the transformers personalities or characters from the original show and series I really doubt you will like this new movie.  If you want to see robots punching each other in the face, and some teen booby action, well, this movie DOES have that.  But even then, it feels more like Gears of War meets The OC rather than Transformers...

I guess my issue with the movie is this.  They could have gone two different routes with it and made a VERY good movie.  The first would be chunky, classic robot designs, a tongue-in-cheek attitude, basically all-out fan-service.  Jump right into the action, no dicking around with some marines in the desert etc.  The second approach would be to put a lot of effort into approaching a realistic premise with some amount of logic and planning; engender a fear of complex technology in the viewer, get some real themes going on there, and make at least a minimal effort to provide a cohesive or sensible plot.  Unfortunately, Michael Bay took the middle road, which resulted in kind of annoying bot designs, flat characters, and the biggest plot hole I've ever seen in any movie ever :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 05, 2007, 03:01:39 pm
judging by the amount of ranting about stuff you like and don't like I think you need a blog :P

Heh, yeah right. I don't rant THAT much. Oh, well, okay, I do. But usually I tend to only rant if I get a meaningful response. Usually a rant from me derives from, or will spark some sort of interesting discussion. That wouldn't happen with a blog. Besides, no one would read it anyway. I'm not ranting now, either, I just wanna know if there's an easy fix to these problems I'd like fixed. Apparently, there's not.

On a completely unrelated note, I'm rapidly closing in on the 200 hour mark on Oblivion. That game seriously just keeps on giving. And I've still only gotten to the top of one of the guilds, and just now started with the Fighters guild. So I've got quite a few hours to go, still.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 05, 2007, 03:22:45 pm
Quote from: Rox
Stuff about Firefox
To be honest, I hate all the changes they've made with tabs as well, and agree with every point you made.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 05, 2007, 03:25:44 pm
In a movie that introduces that many new characters in the same time, i was kinda surprised. I really liked jazz and bumblebee who reminded me a lot of the old ones. Starscream had little screen time, but did manage to go at megs. Also prime pretty much pwned some of the decepticons without any real effort. And yeah, the movie is also supposed to appeal to people who have no idea what the transformers are. I think it would be suicide to limit your audience to transfans only, since the fanbase could have been really small, though it wasn't, which was quite a shock here since i thought i was pretty much alone with my transfaggotry. As for the story... it was so straightforward that i don't get how it could not make sense  :hehe:   Aaand the final battle in the city, i think there was A LOT of action that was all thanks to the setting. The guys were transforming here and there, using the stuff around for cover or as weapons. But i still agree that the moving to city part was forced and probably mostly due to trying keep down production costs.

I don't think even by watching the original series for two and a half hours you would get an idea of all of their personalities. You only have so much time and with that kind of a cast you simply have to sacrifice something. That said, the ending seems to set up for giving more character in the sequel, in case you watched the clips during ending credits. Kinda hints who's going to be the main man in the possible next movie.

Finally, i really try to get into new things from a fresh table to see things in their own self contained worlds rather than going oooo bay you mufukka destroy my childhood cause megs doesn't transform into a walther P38.  :lol: That's why i like a lot of things... hatin' is not fun

Still i do understand where you're coming from Atomic, and i kinda could agree with your points, but i kinda don't mind at all :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 05, 2007, 04:43:44 pm
This could be construed as a spoiler in some way I guess, so i'm gonna try doing it in this weird light color to see if that helps :P

The plot was soooooo preposterous, even by the movie's own standards.  The plot as I understood it is basically this: Megatron's plan was to use the All Spark to convert Earth's technology into an army of his own.  Which sounds, in the movie's world, very reasonable.  However, Megatron crashed into the arctic circle approx. two thousand years ago, according to the movie.  When there wasn't any human technology to speak of.  Also, by the movie's own plot and admission, ALL of the human technology that Megatron intended to convert into an army, was invented based on the technology they discovered by studying MEGATRON.  All of a sudden you have a major chicken-and-egg issue here.  The tech that Megatron wants to convert was only invented AFTER he arrived on earth in search of the All Spark, and it was ONLY invented after HE himself had been discovered.  So did he intentionally crashland into the frozen wastelands of the arctic in order to set this whole unlikely series of events into action?

It's just retarded to me.  I'd be perfectly willing to let it slide if it wasn't just one of the many cheap things about the film though.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 05, 2007, 04:57:48 pm
SPOILARZ
Megatron was just searching for the allspark, nothing else, and now since the earth is filled with tech he WOULD use it to construct an army if he did get his hands on the allspark. I mean i would do that if i was megatron and had the allspark, so that would be the reasonable thing for prime to assume. .
end sPOILARZ

Haha, wasn't that weird afterall now was it?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on July 05, 2007, 10:32:34 pm
I don't understand why the all spark can only create decepticons

any thoughts on the commercialism and advertising through the movie? I've heard 'bad bad bad' but it didn't bother me.

for the record, i liked the movie, but i've only ever been attached to the 'beasties' show, and known very little about the traditional transformers. .
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 05, 2007, 11:03:12 pm
any thoughts on the commercialism and advertising through the movie? I've heard 'bad bad bad' but it didn't bother me.
Haven't seen the movie but hey, don't let product placement ruin entertainment, also get a Dell PC they work great at very reasonable prices, anyway, I think its fair that they're going to make millions off of the movie alone, so why not just add to that? Millionaires need more money, oh hey, lets not stop there, lets put product placement in video games! Because when I'm playing Splinter Cell, I want to be reminded that Burger King is the best fast food chain ever. Oh oh and put product placement in comics too, because when Tony Stark aka Iron Man needs new parts for his suit, he knows that Autozone will have the best and cheapest parts. I can understand commercials, I can understand previews before a movie, I can understand ads in a comic book but I don't want that crap in there, it's annoying and it ruins it because its not so they can keep the show/game company/whatever going, its just so they can make an extra buck or two.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 06, 2007, 12:29:53 am
the product placement drove me nuts...here's the brands that I noticed getting major full-screen treatment:

GMC
Chevrolet
Pontiac
Cadillac
The Strokes
Mountain Dew
Apple
Nokia
Microsoft/XBox 360

EDIT - Forgot non-transformers Hasbro brands like My Little Pony and Furby...

And those are just the ones that I remember :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: rabidbaboy on July 06, 2007, 04:23:57 am
Hey, hee, hum!
My first thief!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFSoLTdC-Bw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFSoLTdC-Bw)
 :n: :yell: :n:
Haha, that's happened to me already.

I don't know about you, but I had a mixed feeling of injustice and joy. Joy because someone actually found my work worth stealing, heh. :D

Hope it gets sorted out.

Quote from: Faceless
http://uk.media.tv.ign.com/media/945/945821/img_4653798.html
I don't know what to think... I don't know what to say...
Can't they at least actually try to put a little more effort and creativity into it? :'(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 06, 2007, 05:09:29 am
Product placement in videogames is a good way to cover for increasing production costs and avoid giving it a $100 pricetag. Complaining about product placement in transformers is a bit funny, since the whole concept originated from boosting sales of the japanese diaclone and microman toys under the name of "transformers" It was originally just one big toy advertisement and it still is. Now i agree in the movie it went a bit overboard and it bothered me a bit, but didn't really ruin it. It was one of the parts that contributed for covering for production as well as keeping the costs down. There were other quite noticable bits of making it cheap, like using material from previous bay movies as well as favoring practical shots over CGI. Of course the actors and bay are getting a big buck out of it, but is there a movie that doesn't have high salary for big names?

@adam. If you go searching for flaws you'll find them cause your brain will work overtime just to make a plot hole that doesn't exist. Also GMC, Chevrolet, Pontiac and Cadillac = General motors. The transformers had to be some cars and they couldn't be their original alt forms cause Volkswagen and porche for example don't want to be associated with war toys.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 06, 2007, 05:12:26 am
I watched some transformers cartoons a while ago and they really didn't hold up. Just because I didn't know any better as I child doesn't mean I have to hold a loyalty to a cheap show solely made to sell toys which somehow caught on. Robots are cool, but let's not become too much of nostalgia junkies.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 06, 2007, 02:14:01 pm
HUMAN DISPLAY!

http://www.shoutfile.com/v/x8X9qTCx/Samsung_Dance (http://www.shoutfile.com/v/x8X9qTCx/Samsung_Dance)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 06, 2007, 02:27:20 pm
Oshi-
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 06, 2007, 03:54:33 pm
Coolest one of those dances i've seen so far. Damn those koreans. I wonder how many choreographers died in the process  :D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 06, 2007, 05:08:53 pm
I think advertising in a game is dumb. It isn't a way to avoid a $100 pricetag, it's a way to shell in a little more extra cash. Many other excellent games have no in-game advertisement at all, and their price stays at the average price that other games sell at.
Advertising has long been used to keep things free, or relatively free, for consumers, now everyone is jumping in knowing that they can get an extra buck off of it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 06, 2007, 05:23:02 pm
Dusty, you win one free internets, just one though.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 06, 2007, 05:47:20 pm
The production costs have skyrocketed in the past 10 years, so where do you think that money comes from? Magic? It has to come from somewhere, but not just advertising. Companies either make money or they die, you go to work to make money or you die. We've seen a lot of big gamedevelopers wither or join with others to survive. A game doesn't make profit just by being good. Okami and God Hand are hailed as masterpieces, yet the developer is no more. Also big companies don't just sit on their money, it goes somewhere as well.

As for what determines what games have in them? Well that's the people who buy games. If you don't like the ingame advertising, don't buy the game, simple as that. Don't want more sequels? Don't buy sequels. Companies make what people want to make money, that's what companies do. And you don't "usually" make big hits with low production values. When a company just wants to make a fine game no strings attached, reviewers go like LOL WTF production values HELLO. Personally i haven't come across that much of it anyway, maybe Dante wearing a Diesel jacket in Devil may cry, which fits there. If it was something like dante suddenly going HEY I'M USING AN IPOD, IPOD ROCKS, it would be REALLY weird.

Nintendo seemed ready to give up around when there was the first news of the follower to xbox. I think iwata said something about not liking the situation at all, where game production becomes too expensive to be reasonable, so that's how they came up with something like the wii and ds, probably long before the news for these new next gen consoles. And well, the wii and DS are a remarkable success, which might steer the evolution of videogames to a more stable situation.

Now Dusty, if you were the head of a videogame company, would you not try and do everything you can in order to ensure your company's survival? Most likely, since if you didn't some other company suerly WOULD use whatever means and leave you second. That's how the world works and that's why 80% of the world is ridicilously poor and making us  all these nice toys we have around us.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: LoTekK on July 06, 2007, 06:08:08 pm
Holy shat, that dance was insane. Talk about some cool pixel art and INSANE coordination. :O
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on July 06, 2007, 06:18:04 pm
let's not forget product placement is nowhere near a new concept
http://www.encyclopedia-obscura.com/gamesprodplacement.html

heck; licensed games like all those movie games are pretty well just advertisements themselves, aren't they?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 06, 2007, 06:33:37 pm
I don't think Gears of War had any in-game advertising in it and Splinter Cell is a very good selling franchise, so what the hell? Video Games aren't like TV shows, where they need ads to survive, you know what? Instead of putting in-game ads into the game, how about they actually make the game fun? Tell you what man, making a game thats fun as hell will sell alot more than if you make a half-way decent game that has a bunch of ads in it. For movie games, I'll agree, its just advertising the movie, but hell, thats all its doing and guess who will buy that game? The people who like the movie, hell dude, you think anyone who doesn't like Madagascar will have Madagascar the video game in his collection? Probably not, also, the Wii isn't doing too well, look at its game selection, see anything other than nintendo games getting good reviews? The one most likely to make the game business better is the 360, mainly because it has the most power(if you can name a game that looks better than Gears of War, tell me), has a great game selection(Dead Rising, Gears of War, Armored Core 4, XLA etc.) and multiplayer is amazing.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: LoTekK on July 06, 2007, 07:17:07 pm
There's good product placement, and there's shitty product placement. I thought that for the most part, the product placement in Transformers wasn't too bad, in that they tended not to shove it in your face (eBay and Nokia being notable exceptions). Then there's bad product placement, like in Bay's earlier flick The Island (USE MSN! OMG CADDILAC!), I, Robot, Blade: Trinity (yeah, she needs her iPod to kill vampires), all examples of movies that took a product or brand and slammed it in your face just because they could.

Besides, if you think about it (and yes, I'm siding with Bay in this case), he shaved a shitload off his relatively meagre budget simply by going with GMC (what was it, 3-4 million USD worth of hot cars?), money that went towards vfx, for example. Basically, I'm fine with product placement as long as it fits with the movie or game. I have no problem seeing a billboard for Coca Cola in, say, GTA (yes, I know they make up their own products), though I'd have a big problem with a Coca Cola health potion in WoW (unless they did a major rebranding push purely for the game in order for it to fit the period/atmosphere/etc).

Also, "fun" is a piss poor way of trying to ensure sales, considering the consumer market. How many well-made games, fun games, beautiful games, etc etc, got piss poor sales in the last year alone and doomed their dev houses to getting shut down? How many shitty budget titles sold a metric assload of copies?

That said, the Wii has plenty of pretty awesome titles, and not necessarily first-party, either. Plenty more third-party titles in the pipeline, too. And remember that it's still doing well in Japan. I could care less how many polies my console is pushing, or how many shader pipelines it's using simultaneously, I just wanna enjoy myself. And I enjoy the hell out of the Wii games I've played.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 06, 2007, 07:49:07 pm
Did i tingle someone's fanboi nerve by having the word "nintendo" in my post  :huh:, i'm joking. 360 is one big advertisement. You notice this when you press the power button and live kicks in. It's all fine for me though. Also Splinter Cell has ingame advertisement, i think it was at least with Nivea and probably some US army recruit posters. There was a big article on gamedeveloper. Also there is no option of making a good or bad game, of course everyone wants to make a game that's fun as hell. I totally don't understand what your trying to say bengoshia. Having ingame advertisement deals during developement provides for bigger budget and allows for a longer developement perioud which in turn will result in a better game. I have a wiistation360 and yeah they all have great games, just incase you were wondering what "side" i'm on. Most of the time a bad game made by an established videogame company is explained by lack of resources and/or tight schedule. The thing is, people with the money sometimes don't know about "good games" but they know about good business. This is why even one of the biggest guys at Capcom, Keiji Inafune (creator of megaman) had to convince REALLY REALLY hard that Dead Rising and Lost Planet are worth investing to. Both of the games were really close to being completely scrapped. In the end they turned out really good, even though Lost Planet has a lot of planned features cut off, due to budget restraints... oh and Dead Rising was perfect for product placement, so of course it had some.

@lotekk
Bay actually did all he could to stay in the 150million budget for the movie. In the end when it was creeping over that sum, Bay himself took a slice off his own paycheck and convinced some others in the team to do the same. There's a load of other stunts in the movie to keep down the costs, big product placements being the most apparent. I almost facepalmed at the Nokia phone part actually. The nokia robot on the other hand was really funny.

Good product placement can work nicely, like those in ice hockey or basketball games, they actually fit there. But like you said, there are times when it's just too much, which is of course due to the fact that the owners of the products want good visibility and they'll pay more money for it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 06, 2007, 08:02:54 pm
Also Splinter Cell has ingame advertisement, i think it was at least with Nivea and probably some US army recruit posters.
That was my point, why does a big franchise like Splinter Cell need in-game advertising? Also, Dead Rising didn't have any product placement in it, just made up crap(I think).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 06, 2007, 08:07:08 pm
My beef with product placement has nothing to do with the commerciality of it, or budgets, or operating costs, or new marketing trends, or any of that.  The problem to me is very simple.  Advertising, branding, and logos are designed to do ONE THING - catch your eye.  Get your attention.  Distract you.  That's how billboards work, soda machines work, cars work, video game covers, etc etc etc etc.  They're flat, 2d things that don't move, so they've taken hundreds of years of graphic design experience and designed pieces of paper that SCREAM for attention.  And I just hate seeing stuff like that barge onto the screen in the middle of a movie - my eyes go to it INSTANTLY.  Whatever i WAS watching - be it robots or dudes or sunsets or a car chase or anything really, NOW i'm watching some flat colorful thing that 99.9999% of the time has NOTHING to do with the movie.

That's my beef anyways :P  Maybe I'm just too sensitive...I don't even wear clothing with external brands, haven't for years, bothers and distracts me...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 06, 2007, 08:20:15 pm
Yeah that's how i felt at the nokia scene, it was like going for a commercial break for 10 seconds. I also use clothes that don't show the brand, pretty much cause i don't want to look like a walking billboard. It doesn't bother me when it happens as if it was happening in the real world, so the ebay thing didn't catch my attention until someone else mentioned it.

@bengoshia
Splinter Cell was moving to Next gen and most likely needed new sources of income to cover for new expenses. This was covered in the article on gamedeveloper and was stated as exploring sources other than just game sales. It's not that the team's life depended on the ads, but it was one part that contributes to the whole. Aaand, in dead rising, bang bang, i'm shooting you with my megabuster.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 06, 2007, 08:48:49 pm
Oh come on, thats advertising another capcom game, thats like, if you buy axe and they're advertising a new scent of axe on the cover.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 06, 2007, 09:07:34 pm
And it worked perfectly. The most powerful items are the real Megaman X parts. It gets all dead rising players talking about megaman, increasing public awareness of the megaman series. Cheers for inafune for such a cunning stunt.

Onto other news, i just got Cooking Mama for DS. It's about uh... cooking things... with cooking mama.. basically a collection of minigames, kinda like wario ware, except all cookiing related. Really fast fun when you don't feel like engaging in a game with full power, but rather just feel like playing for a minute.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 06, 2007, 09:12:47 pm
Dude, theres no megaman game for the 360, so their advertising wasn't so damn great was it?(Just being serious here, not trying to be mean Huzba :P)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on July 06, 2007, 09:22:19 pm
Well, capcom isn't trying to advertise the 360, but their own games, so it works.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 06, 2007, 09:26:03 pm
But I mean, the game is for the 360, so... ugh, nevermind, let's talk about something completely different now.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 06, 2007, 09:28:09 pm
I'm also pretty sure that a very great number of 360 owners also have a DS, duh.

This just in: Ninja Gaiden sigma for PS3 has already sold almost half a million copies. (if i understood the german site correctly, my german is a bit rusty)

I bought it as well. Seems like there is A LOT of gamehungry PS3 owners that rip ps3 titles off the shelves as soon as they're released. So that'll bring some carrot for gamedevs to reach for when they make games for the PS3 platform. So there are roughly 3 million people who have very few games for their expensive console. Happy days for PS3 devs.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 06, 2007, 10:39:50 pm
I'm annoyed by Ninja Gaiden Sigma. It must be THE most perfect game ever, since I thought the original NG Xbox was.. the best action game ever. And then they refined it into Black. And then they refined Black into Sigma. The only flaw I can think of is that it's for the PS3. OH BURN.

I hear they're making a real sequel for the 360, though. And until then, there's Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword which looks incredible. I might pick up the Transformers DS game, too. And MegaMan ZX Advent. I need games for my DS. The more games you have for a system, the less you feel like the system itself was a waste of money.

Not that I'd think so of my DS Lite anyway, because Animal Crossing kept me playing for exactly every day for ALMOST a full year. I was just, like, a month short or something, when my attention started failing. That's getting your money's worth from a game!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 06, 2007, 10:54:31 pm
the first instance if product placement I can remember is KFC in crazy taxi, and I thought that was alright, some customers wanted to go to KFC, that's not really out of place, same with the batteries and bottle caps you can find in pikmin or the dole bananas in monkey ball, stuff like that I don't mind.

In the transformers movie, the only advertising I noticed was the fat nerd exclaiming to his camera how this is "way cooler than armageddon", and the 360, mountain dew transformers, I thought the armageddon mention was the worst, all were completely unnecessary but atleast the 360 and mountain dew cameos weren't just a simple flash of the logos

...might pick up the Transformers DS game...
I checked the game out... average at best :n:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 07, 2007, 12:05:10 am
Quote
As for what determines what games have in them? Well that's the people who buy games. If you don't like the ingame advertising, don't buy the game, simple as that. Don't want more sequels? Don't buy sequels

Oh wow, your idea of consumer causality seems really ass-backwards. So buyers should excercise their god-given FREE WILL FOREVER and completely disregard years of force-fed social conditioning and downright mental programming (buy buy more things you recognize spend more money look remember logo brand buy consume cognate desire with consumption buy buy take more you need more you can never have enough entertainment is an injection send more money) and just break out of their imposed rote and start making responsible choices with how they spend their money. That's how the world changes.

No, those of us that have the cultural background and mental fortitude to see the advertising trends should publically and vocally dissent, we have to apply political force to counter the rampant advertisement encroachment of communication space and help the average joe have a chance to defend their brain from the constant attack. We are in a constant war of attrition with memetic bombardment and people don't just 'snap out of it and start behaving responsibly'. This is a relatively new concept and people don't know in how much danger they are yet, and boy, are people selling us stuff taking advantage of this preliminary innocence.

This is a grander issue than the quote that made me tackle it, but still, I just wanted to tell you that you're looking for the onset of consumer responsibility in the wrong place.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 07, 2007, 08:29:57 am
Yeah i know it isn't THAT simple. A sequel has already loads of advertising and image under it and yada yada yada and consumers work in the games world similar to how they work with every other brand or product that are sold for us. It's a good thing that the most vocal people aren't the average joes, but the Joe Behaving responsibly. But then again, the average joe has more force and more spontaneous actions and behave like drones attacking everything defined evil in their programming.

Anway, if having in-game advertising for example in a game has negative effect for sales and mr reviewer says that this is the one thing that really sucks about this game, they will reduce it. If NHL 200X drops sales compared to the previous one and mr reviewer says it's not new enough, they will work to make something new next time. That's what i mean and now that i look at i'd change the "more sequels" to "bad sequels". Small things affect sales...ridicilously small, it's all in the numbers. If feature XY makes people like the game 1% less, that will show in sales. If some feature is big and bad enough to have people start spreading the bad buzz about it, that feature will be less likely used by others. Some series have had a constant decline in sales just due to the fact that you can't constantly sell sequels in the same series for same people, they will get tired and stop buying the games, they don't have to snap out of it. When this happens they refurbish the series(like Megaman / Megaman X / Megaman ZX / Megaman Legends /Megaman EXE / Megaman Starforce, which are standalone series, but way different from each other luckily still gaining momentum from the megaman brand) or start making another one.

But why should the joe be helped? People like having strong image for their products and enjoy it. I like the associations coming with the transformers toys on my table. The marketing totally droned me, but i don't mind. They're cool on their own, but even better with moar mental images.. i really feel like going to buy a yellow camaro with black racing stripes and putting the autobot logo on the steering wheel. If i see a transforming robot toy in the store and it's not Transformers, i'll instantly go "That's totally shit, it's not transformers"

I didn't mean to say that people need to make more responsible choices, since whatever rocks their boat is just fine with me, but that their choices determine things regardless.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on July 07, 2007, 11:22:36 am
And it worked perfectly. The most powerful items are the real Megaman X parts. It gets all dead rising players talking about megaman, increasing public awareness of the megaman series. Cheers for inafune for such a cunning stunt.


WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS WRONG WITH MY BRAINS?

It subconsciously replaced the 'c' and 'st' in 'c'unning 'stunt' and I was so confused I had to read it over for like three times before I realize what really was written there.

Failure D;
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on July 07, 2007, 11:34:31 am
nah not just you, i read it like that first time round.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 07, 2007, 11:47:18 am
I'm probably the most perverted here and I read it right the first time........  :-\ loljk.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 07, 2007, 02:38:30 pm
Quote
I didn't mean to say that people need to make more responsible choices, since whatever rocks their boat is just fine with me.

oh, that's just great.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 07, 2007, 03:22:07 pm
Quote
I didn't mean to say that people need to make more responsible choices, since whatever rocks their boat is just fine with me.

oh, that's just great.
Still talking about things people buy to entertain themselves, like videogames. If i want to make myself look bad, i'm perfectly capable of doing it myself, i don't need you helping out like that.   ::)


Damn you jad, when i came back i misread the quoted and bolded "cunning stunt" as well.... u know, words close together, read fast, see letters, brain finds first closest match.

--seems like smash bros brawl wont get online play....  so is pokemon so far the only online game for wii? Seems like i have to actually get some friends over to play rather than kickin' their arses online. It's merrier like that anyway.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 07, 2007, 03:38:23 pm
So what if you're trained to be an ever-eating-ever-shitting-ever-regurgitating machine of consumption in your entertainment choices, you can totally be a sparkling clean critical choice making responsible adult human being in every other choice-making facet of existence, right?

We are living in a time where entertainment and information are coalescing. And you're suggesting a double-standard that is impossible to enforce. How people deal with their entertainment (yes, their 'videogames') is how they will deal with their political choices, their social choices, everything. And in fact blind consumerism is the number one trait western societies seem to suffer from, and it's the same people who are making this happen that are benefitting from it: people selling shit.

So yes, socialism, state control of the market for the benefit of mankind.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 07, 2007, 03:59:47 pm
D: God damn Helm.... god damn, you've thought about this alot haven't you?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 07, 2007, 06:14:43 pm
So instead of respecting other people's choices i'd have to go judging them for their irresponsibility? Then the only way for you to not receive my divine judgment would be to drop dead, since existing in a western society is thanks to people selling shit. The farther you go in the system the more cruel it gets. We have a rich and modern society thanks to poor people. In order for us to be rich, a whole lot of other people need to be piss poor. There is no responsible purchase. All your nice things are dirty. In fact, if i wanted to benefit mankind, i'd probably become something the society will label as a terrorist. In fact, terrorists are spawned at the root of our nice things, for our benefit.

I completely understand you helm, but it's nearly impossible to make a change in the system when you'd have to shatter cornerstones. So i try not to think about it, that's why i don't care if someone buys Halo3 instead of something less commercial. If i did care, it would mean i'd have to give up some nice things myself and i don't want that and it's selfish, i know, but where do i draw the line when the choices are only in range from evil and very evil, with the added bonus choice of blowing things up. AND STILL it's sometimes very hard to tell the difference between your irresponsible and less irresponsible choice. There are already things disguised as something responsible, when it can be the very worst choice possible. The western world is in a state of being very happy without knowing the real source of their happiness where even the optimal situation isn't really acceptable in my book, so i close that page not knowing what to do.

I mean.. can you escape the cycle even if you tried? Would it not call for new measures to keep you in?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on July 07, 2007, 06:47:50 pm
goddamn you vast vocabulary people, us maths kids havent got a clue whats going on.   ???
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 07, 2007, 10:04:01 pm
No one would reduce ads because a reviewer, or some reviewers, said it detracted from the game(or at least a majority of developers). Throw away money just because someone doesn't like the ads? People will still buy the game, because for every aware person, there is a mindless person that will buy it any ways.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 07, 2007, 10:49:57 pm
because for every aware person, there are mindless legions that will buy it any ways.

fixed :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 07, 2007, 11:29:23 pm
So instead of respecting other people's choices i'd have to go judging them for their irresponsibility?

Yes. That would obviously mean you're being irresponsible yourself, but at least then you wouldn't be lying to yourself about it.

Quote
In order for us to be rich, a whole lot of other people need to be piss poor.

This doesn't have to be like that forever, and it certainly doesn't have to get worse and worse. Even a little good is better than a little bad. I'm not saying we'll change the world, but at least we won't be lying to ourselves. If you live in a democratic society, you have choices to make, and yes most of the time they're between evil and less evil, but at least you wouldn't be a cynic, and you wouldn't be lying to yourself.

Quote
i know, but where do i draw the line when the choices are only in range from evil and very evil, with the added bonus choice of blowing things up.

You draw the line in that nebulous place where you can keep on living, and still live with yourself.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 08, 2007, 08:20:10 am
I kinda have to be lying to myself to some extent in order to live with myself. Of course i try and do something about it, like traveling only by foot/bicycle/bus, usually no lights on in the house, no air conditioning, very few new clothes purchases, absolutely not throwing things away etc etc.. But then again, i have my computer on a lot.

At times i envy some of my friends with main concerns relating to their car's bodykit instead of having a cloud of guilt hanging over. So then i go like shooo, indulge in something trivial, like why on earth zelda has brown hair instead of blonde in smash bros brawl. For the same reason i like activities that require concentration, like making art or playing games.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on July 08, 2007, 09:27:12 am
i find living is a lot easier if you don't care about anything.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: fawel on July 08, 2007, 11:28:56 am
i find living is a lot easier if you don't care about anything.

I'm not sure if that qualifies as living <_<;;

Quote
In order for us to be rich, a whole lot of other people need to be piss poor.

Wealth is created and destroyed all the time, do you really think that everything comes from an ultimate "zero?"
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 08, 2007, 12:11:54 pm
Quote
I kinda have to be lying to myself to some extent in order to live with myself.

yes, we all do. How much is the thing, what's the ratio? There's a world of difference between not being able to tell the truth, and being a fucking liar, man.

Feron: I'm sorry to hear that.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: JJ Naas on July 08, 2007, 01:12:44 pm
Quote
In order for us to be rich, a whole lot of other people need to be piss poor.

Quote
Wealth is created and destroyed all the time, do you really think that everything comes from an ultimate "zero?"

In the era of feudalism the amount of riches was thought to be a certain number, which didn't increase or decrease and all you could do was to try go gather as much from that pile to yourself as you can. But of course these days the whole capitalistic system is based on the fact that wealth can be used to generate more wealth. Buying stocks is a bit like betting.. you bet your money in a hope of ultimately receiving money that doesn't exist yet. If you bet well and are lucky, the excess money will be born and you profit from it as well. The whole world economy sort of works because of the illusionary money that doesn't exist yet but that soon will, if people just keep on betting.

Anyway.. the problem is of course how it's divided, not where it comes from. The solution that the capitalists often propose is that if a small number of people make a lot of money, eventually some of that money will also seep downwards to the poor people. However, that just doesn't seem to happen, especially when it comes to the issue of Western World vs. the Third World.

Games and other such products ( books, music, movies etc. ) are important because they make life worth living, escapism is needed from time to time, otherwise we'd be living in a world where working would be the one and only thing in life. You'd work all day, talk about work with your work mates during the lunch break from cradle to grave. Sometimes it seems though as if being constantly entertained had become the sole purpose of their life... which will certainly lead to excessive consuming and playing Starcraft until you drop dead. ;) 
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 08, 2007, 03:23:58 pm
I'm a big believer in the idea that if you give rich people more money, and poor people less money, that the poor people will not, in fact, get more rich.  This is based on the fact that rich people are usually rich because they like to keep and/or spend their money, which is why they are rich in the first place.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 08, 2007, 04:55:56 pm
Life is definitely a whole lot easier if you don't care about things like THIS. What the hedge are you guys on about?? I start to read the long posts, but then my eyes catch on fire!

Actually, not caring about anything could be interpreted as a rather zen way of living. Go sit under a tree and let your mind drift until you find something that matters, and stop caring about anything that isn't related to that. That's still living. In fact, I think they made a religion that started with something like that...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 08, 2007, 05:06:21 pm
Anyone into emulation(for gaming, not programming) here? Mainly online stuff, i.e. kaillera etc.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on July 08, 2007, 06:59:06 pm
Feron: I'm sorry to hear that.

why?, if you stop caring about politics, society, poverty, diversity, consumerism, communism, gaming emulation, animals, terrosim, other people, and the world in general then theres nothing to argue and worry about.  I find just doing what i want makes me happy so why should i give a fuck about anything else.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 08, 2007, 07:43:34 pm
Because stuff actually relates to you and has to do with the fact that you can live how you do.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 08, 2007, 08:12:23 pm
He's got a point, though. I try to stay out of many things that seem to be the topic of discussion nowdays. Especially stuff related to politics is just way beyond me. One thing I do care about is the world itself. Nature stuff. It annoys me that mankind still hasn't come to its senses about environmentally unfriendly stuff, like pollution and demolishing stuff and littering forests and stuff like that. Also, people polluting themselves with alcohol, tobacco and narcotics. And, of course, mental pollution in the form of organlized religion where the only goal is to convert as many hapless souls as possible... I'm looking at you, Jehova dudes!!

But I don't really get involved in any of it. It's not something I think of on a daily basis. It's not something I feel affects me (aside from the damn Jehova dudes), and even more importantly, it's not something I can affect more than I already am. So it'd be a waste to worry too much. Sometimes you have to drop concerns, drop thinking, in order to truly live. That's not the same as not giving a crap about anything, of course, but it's along the same line.

Actually, the world would probably be better off if everyone would just do what makes them happy and not bother with anything else. Might take us back to the iron age, but at least back then we were much less prone to destroying the entire planet. Yeah, I'm actually more concerned about the health of the world than the condition of the human race... god, I'm such a hippie.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: fawel on July 09, 2007, 12:52:38 am
I'm a big believer in the idea that if you give rich people more money, and poor people less money, that the poor people will not, in fact, get more rich.  This is based on the fact that rich people are usually rich because they like to keep and/or spend their money, which is why they are rich in the first place.

Poor people do recieve money.  It's the biggest industry in the world!  Almost 5 trillion is spent annually on poverty in the US alone.  I feel that poor people should not receive welfare/ aid, since most of it is squandered (ie I saw a woman using food stamps to buy oysters  :yell:) but rather incorporate them into industry where they can be useful. 

A personal example of this- I used to volunteer with a food truck, we'd go to lower end neighboorhoods and give out food.  I suggested one day that in order for the poeple to recieve their food they pick up and present 20 pieces of trash on recieval.  To my astonsihment, the manger said OK; and thus the line length was cut in half.  It seems many of these people have gotten to the point where they simply won't work to provide for themselves, since they know someone else will do it for them.

Haha, this post is somewhat unrelated but I really wanted to say this.  Just so you know, I live in Los Angeles, so I am not very aware of how the poor are treated elsewhere, so forgive me if I seem too one-sided.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 09, 2007, 12:56:26 am
I guess we're not done with this topic yet.... okay so right, first off, with what Rox was talking about with society not being able to convert over into more environment-friendly stuff. I'm sure most people want to switch over to more environment-friendly shit(Even ones who don't think global warming is real, etc. They probably still figure it'd be best to do the safe thing and just switch over just in case... I hope.) but the majority really doesn't have control here, I mean, we don't have any benefits from it obviously but the big corporate CEO douchebags do and they want more money rolling in, so why would they change shit(I mean, its that and the government, we have a man in office who doesn't believe in global warming, so why the hell would he make standards for businesses to make it more environmentally friendly?)? Also, Rox, you should be more concerned about the condition of the human race because the better that is, the better the health of the environment will be(World's not gonna be effected by this, it'll live through it but we won't if we keep it up, we'll make it a inhabitable environment.) better.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 09, 2007, 04:06:53 am
Eh, I don't think so. I think if we just fell over and died right on the spot, the world would have a much easier time readjusting for the better. Well, okay, if we could turn of all our lights and stop the factories and park the cars and stuff before we died.

It seems your view on humanity and the planet is the exact opposite of mine. I think, the more we thrive, the more we destroy. It's been the trend so far, I don't see it changing very soon.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 09, 2007, 04:40:46 am
I'm sure most people want to switch over to more environment-friendly shit(Even ones who don't think global warming is real, etc. They probably still figure it'd be best to do the safe thing and just switch over just in case... I hope.)
I wish that was atleast the case..:
Quote
"You know, its because of evolution that we have Earth Day. I'm againat Earth Day. If you look at the purpose and reason behind Earth Day, its satanic. People want you to think that we're in some way obligated to cleaning up the earth."
more fundamentalist quotes here (http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx) :huh:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 09, 2007, 07:39:59 am
I was going to post this in the employment section but decided that its probably reserved for game projects.
[unpaid]
I have a domain( burdenedpixel.com) and would like to have an online portfolio. I need someone that I can talk to brainstrorm website ideas( I already have some things in mind but I want to make them all more solid) and that can actually program the site for me as I know - 12% of html.
I dont know if I can pay you( which is why I said unpaid) but even if I do it would be a very small amount.( I'm 15 years old for christs sake, I dont even have a job!) but if you are ever interested in starting a project and need any graphics resources I would gladly repay the favor.
-Ryumaru.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 10, 2007, 01:40:15 am
D: I shall halp! I know some CSS and a little PHP! And damn, 15? I gotta get better wif my art skillz, catch up with all you guys.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Ryona on July 10, 2007, 02:20:15 am
Sorry to get this thing off topic, homeboys, but I didn't think making a new topic about me being back on the saddle was necessary.

So, what did I miss?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on July 10, 2007, 03:01:59 am
Welcome back Ryona. You didn't miss much. Hasn't been a major activity/challenge/thing since the Pixelator, well, besides the Smiley thing.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 10, 2007, 10:03:25 am
http://www.famitsu.com/game/upload/news/2007/07/10/103,1184055903,74915,0,0.html

I'm really digging the character designs.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: snake on July 10, 2007, 12:45:15 pm
So I went to see Transformers on thirsday. Decent testosterone/special-effects movie.

Then I contracted Pneumonia and got stuck in bed for 4 days with constant fever, feeding on antibiotics, painkillers and fever reducers all the while having illusions of rouge metal robots forming everywhere and premiere screenings of movies on the walls.

So... Yeah.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 10, 2007, 01:53:57 pm
FINALLY!  I was so hoping for some co-op surgeries in Second Opinion, I'm glad their actually paying attention to that...I wonder if the new DS one will feature them over wifi?  I wish I could read japanese...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 11, 2007, 12:11:51 am
anyone know if there is an official term for stuff like the shadows found common in GBA games that are solid black circles (etc) that flash on and off every frame so they appear 50% transparent?

just curious

edit-
Finally finished Echoes.. man the final boss took me a long time to figure out, the first boss wasn't too hard, but the next boss took me ages to catch on...
good game, glad I played it :)
finished with 80% scan and 80% items btw
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 11, 2007, 12:05:06 pm
If there isn't, I now dub them "blink shadows".
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 11, 2007, 12:09:42 pm
Ah crap, I need to get money due to Gears of War is gonna be on the PC, I have a steam account wandering around somewhere too, aswell as a bunch of other PC games, but my current one sucks. I'll probably do a custom build, since it'd be cheapest, any suggestions on what I should get thats powerful but cheap aswell?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on July 11, 2007, 04:14:12 pm
Just hooked up my amiga 500 now that I have some extra space. Used an old portable black and white TV as a monitor. Too bad it doesn't have audio-in.

(http://i14.tinypic.com/53hdk08.png)

Fun!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: JJ Naas on July 11, 2007, 07:27:22 pm
Have you ever tried to plug Amiga to a wide screen TV? Gives a nice extra boost to the old game graphics.  ^__^
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on July 11, 2007, 11:22:19 pm
If there isn't, I now dub them "blink shadows".

Jad counters!

Jad suggests: "Flicker Transparency"!

Combo-attack!!

Jad suggests: "Flicker Shadows" for when Flicker Transparency is used for shadows.

2 hit(s)!!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 12, 2007, 01:17:55 am
RAINBOW ISLAND!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Froli on July 12, 2007, 09:29:52 am
Anyone followed e3? Seems that sony got a good conference this time. Nintendo kinda got ridiculed by the wii fit from what I'm seeing so far with the fan reactions.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 12, 2007, 11:15:42 am
Microsoft press conference had Halo, which looked nice. Probably going to give it a try. The series is popular for a reason, just hasn't hooked me before. Other than that it was a bit dull. They did release the Ace Combat demo in live, so that was awesome.

Nintendo played around with numbers and made me go zzzZZZZ. New metroid, Mariokart and Mario Galaxy are still interesting and they gave a release date for smash bros brawl. Wii zapper is going to bring arcade to home, at least i hope so.

Now the Sony conference was great this time around and showed some nice new games as well as new footage for quite a few upcoming titles. They announced a new PSP, which is slimmer and has a TV-out plug and better battery life. Not sure about the Playstation Home service, might be fun. But the best part was that they mostly showed games and quite nice ones too, like Killzone 2, Heavenly Sword, Echochrome, Warhawk, MGS4, Gran Turismo 5, Socom and Wipeout HD among others.
Good show for sony, except for the wookie, which was awkward.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 12, 2007, 11:22:35 am
Im glad e3 is a lot quieter now.
this years e3 though, I don't care about anything other than metroid prime 3.
Holy shit I cannot get enough of this game.  !yus!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 12, 2007, 02:51:31 pm
Yeah Mario Galaxy, Assassin's Creed, and Uncharted all look pretty cool, everything else just seems like...i dunno.  It seems like every system has 5 games that all take place in brown/gray smashed up near-future cities...and that gets really really boring to me eventually (yes, including MGS4).  Assassin's Creed's lighting is more stylized and suits the environment awfully well, and CoD4 has some good color direction too, but everybody else is just making the same weakass game IMO (killzone, MGS4, darksiders, etc etc).  Glad to see actual platforming returning to Mario Galaxy!!  Echochrome is definitely stylish and interesting.  I'm actually very, very worried about Metroid Prime 3 now...I saw a vid where a LIVE, HUMAN character was TALKING directly to Samus!  This is like the biggest no-no you could ever do in a metroid game!!  Also UTIII looks like it could be fun, lots of vehicles, really swell particle work too.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 12, 2007, 03:03:36 pm
What? People in metroid? TALKING PEOPLE? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The metroid magic is all about being somewhat vague and mysterious. The most chatter so far has been between Samus and her ship's AI.....
Oh well... there was quite a few FPS games with cod4 and killzone2 being the most interesting, though i agree that the gray/brown future thing is getting a bit stale. Halo3 is pretty much the other extreme with all the fancy colors and bling bling. Reminds me of power rangers for some reason. Maybe it's the funny animals and their weapons.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 12, 2007, 03:09:30 pm
Quote
and her ship's AI

shut up ship AI.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on July 12, 2007, 03:17:08 pm
What are you doing, Helm? Helm?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: am_pm on July 12, 2007, 03:36:41 pm
The one thing I dearly hope that they fix in Metroid Prime 3 is the GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF BACKTRACKING.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 12, 2007, 03:45:20 pm
Everyone should be pleased to hear that those talking people promptly get sucked into the vast emptyness of space and proceed to die.
Then it's typical Metroid first level affair. Escape the burning base! Escape the burning base!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 12, 2007, 03:50:20 pm
What are you doing, Helm? Helm?

"I'm somebody you kno-ow! Of course you haven't figured it out yet so let me expound on ethical bullshit for 2 minutes of gametime!"
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 12, 2007, 04:02:03 pm
I watched that movie with the red eye computer talking thing on that spaceship orbiting Jupiter a day or two ago, that movie made no sense, it made as much sense as Red Dawn.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 12, 2007, 04:04:18 pm
Well those beings in Echoes talked to you...
Was the talking in MP: Corrupt just text, or voice acting?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 12, 2007, 04:27:01 pm
Voice acting.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 12, 2007, 04:35:19 pm
Wonder if this is a sign that Nintendo is going to start voice acting in their major franchises.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on July 12, 2007, 04:37:51 pm
I hope not. Look at what voice acting did to sonic!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 12, 2007, 04:39:25 pm
Assassin's Creed is looking awesome, I'm thinking it's gonna be like Oblivion-big with some Prince of Persia/Splinter Cell type gameplay. Also, Sonic wasn't ruined because of voice acting, he was ruined because of 3D.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on July 12, 2007, 04:43:46 pm
I was talking about Sonic as a character. Now every disgusting furry fetishist loves him because he's so "cool" and "badass"
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 12, 2007, 04:44:46 pm
Well, you know those furries, thinking they have rights, lol.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 12, 2007, 04:53:32 pm
Giving a voice for a character is such a defining factor that it might make you hate the characters just for that... you don't get to decide anything for yourself. The first final fantasy character that made me go eww was in Final Fantasy X, which was the first to have voice acting. Bad acting can take so much away from a character as opposed to no voice acting at all(or good voice acting changing a character to something you don't like). Then again there are games that were made a lot more fun with voice, like Dragon Quest 8 with funny british people. BUTTTTT, there are certainly a lot of people who totally couldn't appreciate it. IMO FF12 has really charming actors.

Sonic's latest on ds, sonic rush adventure has new voice for sonic which bugs me a lot... wonder why they changed it. He didn't really annoy me much apart from funny furry adventure story in the previous game.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 12, 2007, 05:02:08 pm
I think they could pull it off in games like Zelda/Mario if they leave the main character without a voice. Which I know they'll probably do. I wouldn't mind other characters having voices.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 12, 2007, 05:18:58 pm
I'm fine with Mario having a voice.
He already has the same voice in everybody's mind, so why not?

Link absolutely shouldn't have a voice, but I want everyone else to be voiced in future games.
I just hope they pick good voices for Ganondorf and Zelda if they do go down that route.

Edit:
Some nice videos of MP3 and SMG in action:
Metroid:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21690.html
Galaxy:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21649.html
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on July 12, 2007, 06:31:36 pm
Am I the only one who doesn't care about the 3D metroids too much? I played the first one when it came out and I just found it boring. I had much more fun with Super Metroid and Zero Mission.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 12, 2007, 06:40:56 pm
Yeah, the 3D ones aren't fun really, only thing I care about right now is Brawl.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 12, 2007, 07:10:15 pm
Metroid Prime isn't fun? What? I bought my GameCube for Metrioid Prime, and I kept it for F-Zero GX. Those are the only two GC games I have that I consider worth buying!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 12, 2007, 07:24:05 pm
Windwaker, Eternal Darkness, Paper Mario 2, Ikaruga (NOT THE PAL ONE!!!), RE4, Viewtiful Joe (yeh I know those are on other stuff as well)

AND best game on the cube and best one in the series Mr. Driller Drill Land!!!! Only Japanese tho. It rocks hard and is worth getting a modded US or Jap cube just for that if you love Mr. Driller (It's one of the games which fucks your memcard if you try to save)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 12, 2007, 07:28:10 pm
I have a ton of games that I loved playing on the 'Cube, though the ones that kept me playing are the multiplayer ones. Mario Kart, SSB:M, Timesplitters 2(gonna get 3 soon, Ninja/zombie/robot monkey's!!!).
And wtf is up with the "your session has timed out, please try to post again" crap I keep getting when I try to post :/
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on July 12, 2007, 07:48:33 pm
just got back from a road trip to birmingham, feeling kinda ill from vast ammounts of beer and cigarrettes, and now i've got about 100 threads to catch up on.

 :y:

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 12, 2007, 09:41:18 pm
I hope not. Look at what voice acting did to sonic!
I don't think voice acting is the root of sonics problems...

voice acting in Metroid? fine by me.
I know welcoming something like voice acting just makes me not look like a "true metroid head" etc... God I get sick of fans like that..: "Fusion and the prime series are NOT metroid games as far as I'm concerned, and if you like them, youre not a metroid fan"
guh, according to these true fans there are only like 3 Metroid games.
Back to the voice acting, I'm glad it's there, I think the series has reached the point where Samus should be walking around the GF ship, and all the small time soldiers are just in awe as she walks past.
there wasn't any voice acting in the first two Primes, but there was a voice delivering the epilogue ("samus aran, elite bounty hunter etc").
And in echoes, they probably should've put in voice acting, there wasn't much dialog so it wouldn't've been too hard.. I get the feeling that game got rushed in a few aspects though..
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on July 12, 2007, 09:46:23 pm
I'm fine with Mario having a voice.
He already has the same voice in everybody's mind, so why not?

Link absolutely shouldn't have a voice, but I want everyone else to be voiced in future games.
I just hope they pick good voices for Ganondorf and Zelda if they do go down that route.
I hated Bowser's voice in Sunshine. He reminded me of that dog Spike from those cartoons. Bowser should not talk. Peach's voice is perfect, as well as everyone else, but I cannot imagine anyone making a good Bowser.

Ganondorf is my favorite videogame villain, though, and I'd love to hear one of his monologues out loud.
And yeah, no, Link should never say anything more than "Hyaaaa!" or "guh".


The Metroid Primes were fun - actually they were ridiculously fun - but I never finished either of them due to the backtracking...okay, well Echoes was a rental, but Prime...I just got tired of going through those same areas a million times over.

But it sucks though, 'cause mah bro sold our whole collection of GC games (around 30) except for Gun, Smash Bros, and Zelda: TP, only one of which is any good to me (and I'll give you a hint: it ain't Zelda or Gun.)

The F-Zero story was impossible.

Welcome back, Feron.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 12, 2007, 09:54:52 pm
see IMO voice acting should never even come up in a metroid conversation at all, unless its whether samus should have an internal monologue.  the whole reason the atmosphere works so well in metroid games is because of isolation; it is just you and your precious armor versus an entire planet of completely alien beings and a very hostile environment.  Your powerups and upgrades gain significance beyond just allowing you to explore this alien place more actively; that armor is the only thing standing between you and a whole planet of malice!

You can tell other metroid stories, sure, but they will not work as well, or be evocative of the emotions or feelings that people have come to love about the series so much.  As soon as live humans (voice acting or not) enter the picture, you lose that, and to me that is a very big loss.  Metroid Prime's atmosphere is way better than Echoes', largely because Echoes starts out with you surrounded by space police, and watching a cutscene of space police being attacked.  The attitude is all wrong, and it gives you too much to connect to.  Samus is supposed to be your one human anchor in the world, the only thing you can identify with; and by doing so you better inhabit her character - alone, The Hunter, contained in the suit (Prime's visor sells this idea sooo well!), and navigating a hostile world doing its best to snuff you out.  The constant and bizarre flora and fauna of Prime helps to accomplish this so well, versus the weird static webbing and crystal structures of Echoes.

To me, if you're not telling a story, or better letting people play a story, about an isolated warrior in a completely alien world, then you're not telling a metroid story, and you should probably call it something else, regardless of whether or not it has morph ball puzzles (the highlight of Echoes, far and away).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 12, 2007, 09:58:23 pm
Well, you already said it yourself, it's the point humans are in the game, not voice-acting.
I'm sure the game will not feel any less isolated, and will probably keep the Metroid feel regardless.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 12, 2007, 10:08:41 pm
I think the inclusion of other humans will only emphasize the feeling of isolation.
you see everyone around you die? can't get more alone than that.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 12, 2007, 10:11:29 pm
.TakaM stole the words right out of my mouth.
They die in the opening sequence, how can they possibly ruin the game?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 13, 2007, 01:21:57 am
because!!  :mean:   :yell:

The classic metroid games hardly even acknowledge the existence of other humans...to me there is a big difference between live humans greeting you and giving you instructions, versus finding some dead scientists in a lab...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 13, 2007, 01:25:42 am
Speaking as a person who has both designed and mainly enjoys games where isolation is a key mood, I don't think having some guys talk to you in the beginning of the game will hurt anything, as long as it doesn't happen again. Once you're back to roaming alone in a huge gameworld, with good music, it's all back to the awesome. Alone forevermore.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: robalan on July 13, 2007, 12:52:10 pm
Super Metroid (the only Metroid game I've really played) had lots of humans in the opening sequence.  Admittedly they were pictures rather than animated models and were largely flashback, but they were humans nonetheless, and they were shown talking with Samus.  I don't see how actually having people talk to Samus for a few minutes then get blown up will be any different than having pictures of people talking to Samus and then implied getting blown up.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 13, 2007, 03:06:32 pm
As much as i agree with everything else, the blowing up people in the beginning might work better for disconnecting you from a comfortable world and leaving you all alone, dont'cha think?

I just checked out the developer walkthrough video on gametrailers.com, and it seems they've again found something quite interesting to present in the art department. The steampunk-ish cloudworld alone gave the familiar metroid feeling of unfamiliarity and interest in traversing a new world. Wii controls will surely work in favor of suiting you in the varia suit. Really looking forward to this game.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 13, 2007, 04:33:20 pm
well, i hope it works!  But I disagree that it could work any better than just showing you photos and corpses.

I just don't have a lot of faith in their ability to capture that "metroid" atmosphere anymore, after Echoes.  The human presence was part of a bunch of bad choices that made it hard to invest yourself in Samus's mission I think.  Required item hunting, a more sterile, less biological world, the always-the-same-palette dark world, huge quantity of mechanical enemies, increasingly linear, shooter-oriented level design, the cut-and-dry weapons system, etc.  On the micro level they got a lot of gameplay done very nicely, some of the enemy attack patterns and morph ball puzzles were pretty fantastic, and the level of detail was very impressive...but the macro picture didn't hold up.  I always felt like I was just going down a checklist, rather than actually getting to explore.  And I do think that the human-filled game introduction played a part in that; seeing similar choices being made for Prime 3 gives me some concern, that's all.  I hope that blowin everybody up sells the idea of being isolated on this bizarre, hostile, life-filled planet...but the only areas they've yet shown are steampunky, or hightech in some other way.  I guess I just have to wait and see...but Fusion, Zero Mission, and Echoes have all been a bit of a disappointment to me...I like Fusion in its own way, but Zero Mission and Echoes were too formulaic and checklisty to inspire the same feelings as the "classics".

But then, i mean game developers shouldn't be forced to remake the same game over and over, obviously...I just love that sensation of exploring this bizarre, very-much-alive world with just a layer of metal between you and whatever strange things you come across.  And its not to be found in very many games...so when I buy something in the hopes that it might be there, and I find that it isn't, well then I go on internet rants about tiny pointless details in the hopes that somehow it will magically replace this missing ingredient in the next release.

Logical, right? :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 13, 2007, 04:55:24 pm
They aren't getting blown up... they're getting sucked into space through a breach in their ship's hull. I'm hoping you'll be able to see them floating around outside as you make your escape. The Devs and the people who have played the game say it feels more like Metroid Prime 1 did. I haven't liked the Prime series so far, but this game has me interested.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 13, 2007, 07:33:12 pm
I don't think there's anything to worry about Adam, in an interview (can't remember if I read or saw it)
one of the retro reps was talking about a lot of the "mistakes" they made with echoes, and that they've constantly been referring to a lot of fan feedback.
he even specifically mentioned the back tracking in echoes ended up making little sense and wasn't necessary. :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: mattness on July 13, 2007, 07:56:02 pm
Some nice videos of MP3 and SMG in action:
Metroid:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21690.html
Galaxy:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21649.html

Damn...

This is too much for the Old Game Boy generation...  :ouch:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: lollige on July 14, 2007, 12:54:33 pm
DA has a new Pixel art gallery director! Yay!  ;D 8)

http://pixeljoint.com/2007/07/13/2253/New_DA_Pixel_art_gallery_director.htm
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on July 14, 2007, 03:17:51 pm
I think one of the reasons we don't want talking humans in a metroid game is that metroid games always immerse the player into the world by being just quiet; not explaining the logic of the world to samus/the player, but letting the player discover it for him/herself. That made the world believable in itself, the weird alien creatures, the sinister world, the moody music, it stayed with you all the time and never broke the mood.

Whereas humans, standing next to you, talking to you, is something very familiar. The only thing is that they're so familiar, we notice the smallest details and because of that, creating a believable human character is incredibly hard. In super metroid, the notion of a human world was simply given; there were pictures of scientists and that was it. The rest of humanity, we had to imagine for ourselves, and probably, we imagined them as the humans we are surrounded with, we never had to see them represented in the media in a way so that we could judge them; Hence they were believable.

Thus we had a believable alien world (the world was simply very alien and carried a strong mood; it was also eeriely quiet and large, containing puzzles of a certain logic; as you conquered the puzzles, you 'learned the language' of the world and started feeling at home with it. When you started to break sequences and just play around in it, you suddenly had become immersed in it. Thus, it felt believable.) and believable humans (either they stood still and looked fairly realistic, not BEHAVING, or they were dead. Realistic. People on photos look like people, check. Dead people don't move a lot, check. Realistic! The rest of humanity were not shown on pictures, so there we had to imagine them for ourselves, and we imagined them as real people because that's our natural reference for people. Realistic.) and we had the isolation from these humans, and we were satisfied, and we dubbed the experience of expreriencing this world 'the metroid feeling'.

Whereas a polygon model of a human, making simulated motions, perhaps well animated (I can only hope), SPEAKING to samus in english, can, and can not concieve a realistic representation of a human.

There are a lot of problems that can come up.

The model may not be detailed enough, perhaps the human person looks unrealistic in some way, his speech and animation may not be well synced, and thus we will not believe that this is a human. Even worse, maybe the voice actor has one of these texas accents, that'd put me off TOTALLY. Texas accent and 'metroid feeling' do not go together. I know that that's fucking nitpicky, but that's the thing about trying to represent humans in videogames. We get totally nitpicky about them.

And then I heard that there was this 'ice-man'-style icicle-riding alien chap bounty-hunter who was gliding around killing space pirates and dropping witty comments. I mean, WHAT IS THAT? Not even STAR TREK would have such an unbelievable character :( Is he going to be in the game? I hope he's killable. Super-powers and witty comments, NOT IN MAH METROID.

Oh my god I'm a ranting fan :((

Anyway, AdamAtomic, marry me, your thoughts about metroid are perfect, now let's make a fan-game of it or something.

EDIT: Having seen the steampunk world, it does not remind me a lot of metroid (if I had made it, I'd try to stuff a lot of other different moods into the game), but of MYST and games like that. And I REALLY like the design, it's immersive and nice. I think I will enjoy it. :]

But since I am a damn FANBOI I'll still not think it feels like METROID boohoo boohoo :]
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 14, 2007, 04:45:56 pm
Well, I really don't care if the humans feel realistic to me or not, the real question is: Is it fun to play? For the recent 3D Metroid's, I gotta say it's mediocre(Just like Halo, srsly guys, it's nothing special), then again I mean everyone feels the need to go 3D since that is the big thing right now but just because it's 3D doesn't mean it's better, ya know? Hopefully someday 2D might come back into the scene(already has in a way, note Xbox Live Arcade and with Nintendo's Wii and you being able to buy old retro games).

Anyway, playing Blue Dragon as we speak, I've found some readability issues but man, great music and it just looks fantastic, gameplay is your average RPG with a bit of a twist, you can charge your attacks and set your characters to different character classes aswell as change the formation so if you don't want your healer getting hurt as much he would. Last night I was a bit angered at it, it was hurting the hell out of my eyes, because honestly it can be pretty hard to read, it has a light gray bg with white text when something is highlighted. One little nifty thing I just found is you can change your party leader, which is pretty neat, this whole game seems like the characters are completely customizable, you don't have to have so and so as the white mage like he was originally, etc.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 14, 2007, 05:16:09 pm
hahahahaha jad i will even be the bride!  i agree totally - biology, mystery, isolation, imagination!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on July 14, 2007, 06:11:04 pm
Yesss, having the player active in all levels makes for a wholesome gaming experience. Atomic and Jad, you nailed how i feel about the whole metroid series, or a lot of good games in general. Some games seem to leave the player out of the equation, which leads to you being completely passive when you play. Then again, some people tend to feel left out when a game is somewhat vague or doesn't explain everything. Ico and Shadow of the colossus are good examples, cause different people see different things in the empty frame that the game left for the player to fill and some people don't see anything other than just the empty frame and a world filled with nothing. This goes for Metroid too, things that don't really need explaining, like the entire human world, are better left for the player to fill in. Then there's some things that give your imagination a bit of a nudge in some direction and you go on from there.

I figure this is why older people like having these things left for their imagination to figure out, since they've seen and experienced more things and have more pieces to complete a puzzle. Some things are hard to make better than what our brains can imagine for themselves. Like how a lot of times a monster you can't see is a lot scarier than something you know of.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on July 14, 2007, 06:39:55 pm
DA has a new Pixel art gallery director! Yay!  ;D 8)

http://pixeljoint.com/2007/07/13/2253/New_DA_Pixel_art_gallery_director.htm

deviantart and pixel-art are like fire and jam.  They dont mix, and when they do its just a fugly mess.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 15, 2007, 01:42:40 am
Adam, Jad. Ever been to the Metroid2002 forums? You'd fit in there. One of the only three forums I frequent nowdays. M2k2, halo.bungie.org and Pixelation.

You'd like it there. Some of us there think so highly of Echoze we spell it like that for reasons I'm unaware of. And some even refuse to acknowledge the existance of Metroid Fusion. Complete denial.

I have to say, I don't like where Corruption is going. Looks good, yes. Probably really fun. But every Metroid fan is striving for an atmosphere that no recent game has been able to deliver.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: lollige on July 15, 2007, 09:06:08 am
DA has a new Pixel art gallery director! Yay!  ;D 8)

http://pixeljoint.com/2007/07/13/2253/New_DA_Pixel_art_gallery_director.htm

deviantart and pixel-art are like fire and jam.  They dont mix, and when they do its just a fugly mess.

Maybe you are right.. But every category contains lots of sh*t, commenters without respect and knowledge, people who do not know what they are talking about, and people who work 1 second on things and say its finished.. But also every category has alot of great pieces.. and those are the ones that make other people start making things as well... No1 will ever find pixelation or pixeljoint if they do not know what pixel art is.. even if they have alot of talent.. but deviant art, is just as for all forms of art, a great advertisement way.. A way alot new pixel artists get known with pixel art, and if they continue with it im shure they can find pixeljoint and pixelation etc.. as well..

I think deviantArt is a great way to advertise, and not much more.. for every form of art there are better communitys to find.. but on DA also non-artists join, maybe to just look at art, and maybe to become an artist :)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: philipptr on July 15, 2007, 10:26:45 am
No offense against the creator of this piece, but in my opinion the fact that http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/58578233/ (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/58578233/) was featured shows that nothing will change at deviantart (Especially if you look at the comments).
I agree with lollige that deviantart is an advertisement platfrom for artists. It doesn't help you in any way to get better.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: lollige on July 15, 2007, 03:28:00 pm
No offense against the creator of this piece, but in my opinion the fact that http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/58578233/ (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/58578233/) was featured shows that nothing will change at deviantart (Especially if you look at the comments).
I agree with lollige that deviantart is an advertisement platfrom for artists. It doesn't help you in any way to get better.
Thats the only one who didnt deserve it in my opinion.. It seems to be hard to find nice pixels. but if you guys join it will be alot easyer to select better DD's.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on July 15, 2007, 03:34:15 pm
Atleast that's actual pixel art. Last time I visited DA the pixel art section was filled with sonic sprite comics.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 15, 2007, 03:57:21 pm
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/59792670/ I was looking around and found alot of similar crap like this, how is this iso-metric pixel art? How is this even pixel art? Deviantart fails again.....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: lollige on July 15, 2007, 04:20:17 pm
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/59792670/ I was looking around and found alot of similar crap like this, how is this iso-metric pixel art? How is this even pixel art? Deviantart fails again.....

Did you know, that everyday alot of NPA is submitted on PJ too? and that there is also alot of stuff under Isometric, whats not iso?
And the npa cant be found that easy cos your pixel art is watched by alot of moderators, who reject everything thats not NPA..
on DA you can submit what you want, and it has to be removed afterwards.. but I can make shure this piece is not in pixel art any more in 1 or 2 days.. cos I have reported shone its a miscat, and she removes alot of it every day... But she is sort of the only moderator there..
With your help, she can do it alot faster, and you are like a second moderator.. that way NPA can be removed way faster.. its not DA's fault that people submit NPA.. and those noobs just dont know better, and we should teach them its no pixel art..
So please help her removing thinks like that, join DA, click report policiy violation and select miscategory, and she will remove it...
Im doing this now for 2 days long,and its hard work but allmost all the submissions of those 2 days are allmost clean.. and if every1 would do this, every day can be clean.. :)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 15, 2007, 04:47:32 pm
Quote
Well, I really don't care if the humans feel realistic to me or not, the real question is: Is it fun to play? For the recent 3D Metroid's, I gotta say it's mediocre(Just like Halo, srsly guys, it's nothing special), then again I mean everyone feels the need to go 3D since that is the big thing right now but just because it's 3D doesn't mean it's better, ya know? Hopefully someday 2D might come back into the scene(already has in a way, note Xbox Live Arcade and with Nintendo's Wii and you being able to buy old retro games).
Still well alive on the handhelds.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Froli on July 15, 2007, 09:38:06 pm
Upcoming ds games :D
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171421
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 16, 2007, 11:19:45 am
I would really appreciate some feedback on an issue that has recently surfaced in my game; Twinsen.
I'll just copy over part of my blog entry:
Quote
Cocopuffs and I had a pretty long debate over the health in Twinsen just now, I'll try to sum it up:
Currently, bushes drop clovers of health about 10% of the time, whether you need it or not.
What I'd prefer is that the bushes always drop health if you have been hurt.
Cocopuffs would prefer having set bushes that leave a clover once, whether you need it or not.

The idea behind my solution, is that it allows different styles of play, simply- stock up on health, or don't.
This would be good for bosses, have one bush in the room that you can always rely on, you just have to wait for it to grow back.
Say you're versing the boss, and he's kicking your ass. You just figured out how to beat him, but you're too low on health to risk attacking him. So you can focus on avoiding his attacks, collect some health and then fight back.

Cocopuffs doesn't like this because he feels it makes the game too easy overall, and removes a lot of the challenge for those who aren't worried about every enemy, and don't feel they need to stock up on health.
I can see where he's coming from, that the skilled players will be rather annoyed that some noob has managed to finish the same game as them.
He believes those players will feel less rewarded, or perhaps cheated that their efforts went by unappreciated.

I really don't think that's the issue.. As much as I want the game to be challenging, I want it to be accessible more.
I want to leave the challenge up to the player, there are already several options presented to you in the game, you don't have to run, you don't have to string together combos, you don't even have to kill enemies... This is just one more option.

I think decisions like this should be left up to the player.
Even if they may not be as good as some others, but they want to kill everything, to try and string together some combos - they can, and they can feel safe in knowing the health is always there for them.
And on the other hand, if you really want to challenge yourself, just don't stop and chop down bushes if you're low on health, unless of course you think you need it.

so please, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

edit-
cocopuffs solution:
Quote
Figure, I might as well post my side of my side, instead of you hearing my side from Taka, even though he did a decent job explaining it.

I say if you play it safe, kill enemies from a distance, let them come to you, you won't be hurt often at all. There will be (should be) enough health scattered around the level to make it so if you're playing safe health is not an issue.
But as a downside to playing like this, you won't get points from trying to link together combos, and will end up with a lower score. But you can still beat the main game.

On the other hand, if you're after a higher score, you can play the game dangerously by trying to like combos together. In which case you will get hurt more often, and will probably die more often. If you find this is too hard, you can always play it safe any time, it's not like there's too paths set in stone.
Of course, the pro to playing dangerously is that you get a higher score, and with that some extras here and there.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: shonegold on July 16, 2007, 01:50:58 pm
Hello all!

Nice to see a discussion about dA and Pixel Art here. I am now the new Gallery Director for Pixel Art at deviantArt. It has been incredibly neglected for a very long time. I don't go there as an expert, I go there with a passion for Pixel Art.

At any time of the night or day if you go to dA you are always likely to find miscats in the galleries as the various servers upgrade the site and drop in new work into the system.

It is receiving submissions 24 hours a day. I am spending around 4 -5 hours a day moving miscats from the galleries and responding to people as to why their work was moved because after all, they made it in paint with pixels so therefore it must be Pixel Art!! Then I do another 5-6 hours on other dA related stuff, like choosing a Pixel Art DD award everyday not just once in a while, reading everyones' new Journals, looking through the new works, answering PMs, attending online meetings with staff, liasing with other pixel artists and so on. This I do seven days a week. Oh I should add, I am doing it for the love of Pixel Art, I am a volunteer and don't receive any financial reward for my work.

dA have thousands of people looking at the Daily Deviations everyday and with persistence and dedication Pixel Art will find its place in the artistic spotlight and become a well represented and respected art form. As this happens so to will the reduction of miscats in the Galleries as people become more familiar with it.

It can be done, it will be done and if you think your work can stand up to the scrutiny of thousands, join us and strut your stuff at dA.

If you are already there and I am not watching you, please note me and I will start to watch you in anticipation of a potential DD.

Here is the link to my page....ShoneGold (http://shonegold.deviantart.com/)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 16, 2007, 05:37:13 pm
Quote
4 -5 hours a day moving miscats [...] Then I do another 5-6 hours on other dA related stuff

You spend 10 hours a day on average on deviantArt upkeep and you're not getting paid for this?


edit: and sorry, here's my point of view:

Quote
dA have thousands of people looking at the Daily Deviations everyday and with persistence and dedication Pixel Art will find its place in the artistic spotlight and become a well represented and respected art form. As this happens so to will the reduction of miscats in the Galleries as people become more familiar with it.

Pixel art doesn't need to be visible in DA to be a respected art form. It wouldn't even help. Critical acclaim and art community respect is a nebulous thing, with even more nebulous benefits, and it certainly is not to be persued in a meatshop like DA. Good luck on your job.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on July 16, 2007, 08:19:15 pm
I would really appreciate some feedback on an issue that has recently surfaced in my game; Twinsen.
I'll just copy over part of my blog entry:
Quote
Cocopuffs and I had a pretty long debate over the health in Twinsen just now, I'll try to sum it up:
Currently, bushes drop clovers of health about 10% of the time, whether you need it or not.
What I'd prefer is that the bushes always drop health if you have been hurt.
Cocopuffs would prefer having set bushes that leave a clover once, whether you need it or not.

The idea behind my solution, is that it allows different styles of play, simply- stock up on health, or don't.
This would be good for bosses, have one bush in the room that you can always rely on, you just have to wait for it to grow back.
Say you're versing the boss, and he's kicking your ass. You just figured out how to beat him, but you're too low on health to risk attacking him. So you can focus on avoiding his attacks, collect some health and then fight back.

Cocopuffs doesn't like this because he feels it makes the game too easy overall, and removes a lot of the challenge for those who aren't worried about every enemy, and don't feel they need to stock up on health.
I can see where he's coming from, that the skilled players will be rather annoyed that some noob has managed to finish the same game as them.
He believes those players will feel less rewarded, or perhaps cheated that their efforts went by unappreciated.

I really don't think that's the issue.. As much as I want the game to be challenging, I want it to be accessible more.
I want to leave the challenge up to the player, there are already several options presented to you in the game, you don't have to run, you don't have to string together combos, you don't even have to kill enemies... This is just one more option.

I think decisions like this should be left up to the player.
Even if they may not be as good as some others, but they want to kill everything, to try and string together some combos - they can, and they can feel safe in knowing the health is always there for them.
And on the other hand, if you really want to challenge yourself, just don't stop and chop down bushes if you're low on health, unless of course you think you need it.

so please, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

edit-
cocopuffs solution:
Quote
Figure, I might as well post my side of my side, instead of you hearing my side from Taka, even though he did a decent job explaining it.

I say if you play it safe, kill enemies from a distance, let them come to you, you won't be hurt often at all. There will be (should be) enough health scattered around the level to make it so if you're playing safe health is not an issue.
But as a downside to playing like this, you won't get points from trying to link together combos, and will end up with a lower score. But you can still beat the main game.

On the other hand, if you're after a higher score, you can play the game dangerously by trying to like combos together. In which case you will get hurt more often, and will probably die more often. If you find this is too hard, you can always play it safe any time, it's not like there's too paths set in stone.
Of course, the pro to playing dangerously is that you get a higher score, and with that some extras here and there.
Like Cocopuff's solution. I believe Zelda does this, having pots and bushes around the outskirts of a boss-room that always drop health, but once you run out of bushes,  :blind:.
It doesn't make it too hard, as long as you've got five or so health-bushes just chillin' around, but it still keeps that risk. I mean, what, where's the fun in beating a boss that should've been hard when you know you can't die, pretty much, or get through an area that should be hard and intimidating but isn't because alls ya gotta do is find some bushes and chop-chop-chop, full health! You don't want people to just blaze through the game without a thought or a memory of certain areas, do you?
Or!
I say that, if you do go your way with the bushes that always drop health, spread them out in patches, having hazardous stretches with little health between each "safe-zone-type-checkpoint" place.

Well, that's just my opinion, anyway.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 17, 2007, 03:01:06 am
The thing is...
Thinking back to super metroid, the game was 100% open to different styles of play, skip the varia suit, but there is still enough health from enemies in Norfair to sustain you, same if you want to play through without collecting energy tanks.
Bosses also almost always had a way to get health out of them, shoot their projectiles etc, they were just a bit risky to collect.
and like yoshi's island, I think all the bosses had an eggplant somewhere that were hard to collect eggs from, you'd usually be in the bosses attack range, but you had to be there to collect enough eggs and defeat them.

I'm thinking if you try to play through Twinsen with only 3 life bars, it's gonna get ridiculously hard, too little room for error and we will have to keep players like that in mind if we decide to have full control over how much health they can replenish in each level...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Doppleganger on July 17, 2007, 04:35:43 am
Why not have all the bushes drop clovers at a particular rate. So instead of one out of ten bushes you pass containing a clover, you have a 1:10 chance of getting a clover from any bush you pass. You could even go so far as designing some bushes to drop clovers at a higher rate. 1:4 maybe. A slightly different look might be the discerning factor between the bushes.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 17, 2007, 04:46:47 am
Zelda uses a predefined, as well as random drop rate for bushes. Some bushes will always drop a heart(like in LttP, the set of bushes just east of Link's house), rupee or what not, and all others have random drops. This is a pretty effective method because it gives a random chance, as well as a chance for you define when to drop health.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 18, 2007, 07:30:25 am
Why not have all the bushes drop clovers at a particular rate. So instead of one out of ten bushes you pass containing a clover, you have a 1:10 chance of getting a clover from any bush you pass. You could even go so far as designing some bushes to drop clovers at a higher rate. 1:4 maybe. A slightly different look might be the discerning factor between the bushes.
hmmm.. I rather like your chances getting better as your health gets worse... that's a pretty good balance.
 :y:?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 18, 2007, 08:06:09 am
lol rank :P

I dunno, I am not a fan of adaptive difficulty. If the player is cack he is cack and needs to improve. I see no need for games to have stuff that makes it easier or harder on the player depending on how good/bad he plays. Best is to make a well balanced game with a good difficulty curve imo.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 18, 2007, 08:10:14 am
The problem I've found in alot of nintendo games is they're pretty easy or just pretty average in terms of difficulty. One of the reasons why I tend not to play Nintendo games is because of that, I mainly play arcade games, where it's if you're shot once you die, i.e. Metal Slug, Dodonpachi, or other games where you get a challenge out of the opponent(s), i.e. Street Fighter 3, Marvel vs Capcom, Change Air Blade, Call of Duty, Gears of War.
It's understandable why Nintendo makes their games like that though, because then it's not too difficult for your average game but not too easy for your game addict. To me though, it's all about the challenge, all about how many shots you can dodge until you finally get hit, all about if you're able to execute that combo correctly, all about if you can take out that tank before it destroys your base.
So my question is, while classics like Metroid and The Legend of Zelda are fun, do you think they'd be funner if they actually presented some challenge(While there is some challenge in them, it's usually not challenging enough where the average gamer would tend to die alot, or even once, perhaps)?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 18, 2007, 08:26:47 am
The original NES Zelda, Metroid and SMB are not exactly supereasy. Also, most arcade games have rank. Mostly shmups. As in the better you play the harder it gets over time.
Money making facility. I think I only died like 2 times because I was being stupid in Windwaker and I still had MASSIVE amounts of fun with that game. Just exploring the world and stuff like that was awesome enough for me and the fights, esp the bosses are really good fun. There is more than just challenge that is important to a good game.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 18, 2007, 09:37:14 am
I find that when I'm playing an easy game I still have just as much fun if I were playing a hard game.
like super mario 64, I hardly ever die in it, infact the first time I saw the gameover screen on DS I was surprised and realized I hadn't seen it before.
mainly because I'll be constantly diving and sweep kicking, sorta like reading the track ahead of you in a rally game, long jumping onto enemies, trying to bounce from one to the other, never changing the camera angle etc, and in windwaker I actually try to always only use the spin slash, as in doing a full circle with the joystick, then pressing B, it kinda breaks the parry opportunity down into three parts, you can hit them twice then jump back. more fun than playing normally :P

I dunno, maybe I am weird but you can always make the conscious decision to make any game hard, and thats where I have the most fun
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zero on July 18, 2007, 12:59:54 pm
The thing about easier games like Super Mario 64 is that most of the time you can challenge yourself by unlocking everything. In this particular game, you have to find 150 stars before you can unlock every mini-game, which took me quite a long time, and was very challenging. So if you wanted to, you could take the easy way out and not find all the stars, or you have the option to challenge yourself.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 18, 2007, 05:58:12 pm
Oh ya, there's also games like Metroid, that changes the drop depending on what you need. If you needed missles, there was a chance you'd get missles over life, but if you needed life, there was a chance monsters would drop life.
Either way, I agree with the people who say don't try to make the difficulty change for the player. Keep it at one thing, and if it's too hard(as long as it's not discouragingly hard), they'll keep trying until they beat it. Just don't piss them off.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on July 18, 2007, 06:18:05 pm
Sounds like a cop out to me, Taka.  Make your own game fun, don't expect the player to make the game fun for you.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on July 18, 2007, 08:16:23 pm
Sounds like a cop out to me, Taka.  Make your own game fun, don't expect the player to make the game fun for you.

Hear hear!  Also, amen and other such agreements.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 19, 2007, 02:28:25 am
what you're saying is true n all darien, but that wasn't really what I was talking about.
I don't want the players to make the game fun for me, I want to both make the game fun for the players and have the players make the game fun for themselves.

regardless, I think we've got the fun part down, just recorded a tough combo in level 5:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/TakaM/Twinsen/level5combo.gif) (click to view full screen - 4MB)

it was fun and difficult :B
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 19, 2007, 02:42:03 am
Gah! That games looks so fun, whens the next demo?!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zero on July 19, 2007, 02:46:15 am
Gah! That games looks so fun, whens the next demo?!

My thoughts exactly. I wanna play this!  :crazy:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on July 19, 2007, 04:45:24 am
I don't want the players to make the game fun for me, I want to both make the game fun for the players and have the players make the game fun for themselves.

I realize that, and that's what I was talking about.  I don't think it's possible to have one game be 100% one way or the other.  But I think you as a designer should make the game as inherently fun as possible.  By acknowledging that a player is going to have to put some effort into making the game funner, that's acknowledging that the core of the game isn't as fun as possible.  If there was a way to make it funner it should have been made that way and not have the player have to artificially make it that way.


That aside, your game looks like it's coming along nicely.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 19, 2007, 06:59:20 am
Gamefaqs pisses me off sometimes. They're allowed to have a crapload of different FAQs for the same game submitted, some not even ever finished at all. Yet, once someone uploads a map or image, you're not allowed to upload something of the same nature. I mean, look at these maps:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/n64/file/197771/3488
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/n64/file/197771/3501
I've made a couple of maps(actually put effort into the graphics for them), and they were rejected because they were 'duplicates' of current maps that are already uploaded above(I actually did a Hyrule map, with more information than the one above)... I can't believe once someone slaps up a half-assed map in MSPaint they hold the title for the map forever. And I post about it in the Gamefaq's forums, and just get a bunch of replies that it's about the information, not the quality. Which is true, if there is no alternative. Sometimes I'd like to see a better looking map on the site instead of looking at those scribbles. I don't see why a better image can't be accepted, even if it is just because it's only more visually appealing.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 19, 2007, 07:41:55 am
let's see yours dusty
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Skull on July 19, 2007, 10:46:28 am
Hmm, those maps are really poor, and a little hard to make out at times.
I can barely recall the game looking at those! :o
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on July 19, 2007, 03:05:31 pm
gamefaqs.com

lol gamespotfaqs.
they threw quality out the window a loooooooooong time ago
 :)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 19, 2007, 06:44:40 pm
I don't have mines anymore. After they rejected them I never bothered to try to make new ones, and just ended up losing my old ones... I do think I have my old unfinished WindWaker one on a disc though...
Nope, couldn't find it, if I do though I'll post it.

EDIT: Here's the Windwaker one. Ya I threw in photoshop filters, but I did spend a lot of time doing what I did. I had to find all those damn fishes to get a map of the island, then I tried my best to make it in proportion and in the right area on the map. I could probably remove the filter and still have it hold its value.
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5171/windwakermapeh3.gif

Oh, and my Lost Woods map for OoT.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8669/zelda64lostwoods1bm2.gif
Was rejected because this was already up:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/n64/file/197771/3497
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 19, 2007, 07:55:47 pm
If the controls on Twinsen have not changed since the last demo, as in how the feel and such, then it's still poo in my opinion.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on July 20, 2007, 01:42:28 am
the controls haven't changed a lot, I think the main changes are being able to aim your ball in 8 directions (2 levels of power), to be able to spin slash in 8 directions, to be able to drop down the edge of cliffs easier, and lots of stuff like if you're halfway through the slash anim you can still uppercut, not having to wait etc.
And the keys are customizable, which was really the last hurdle remaining.

looking back at the first demo, it's awful.
Since then the first level has gotten significantly easier, both in the tiles, and the enemies.
But the main thing that helps is that you feel so much more in control over Twinsen.
I have had a couple of my friends play the current build from start to finish, just to see how they handle it, it took them all about 20 mins, longer if you want to find all the secrets and perform impressive combos, point is, while I only had one friend play our first demo, it took him 30 mins I think it was, just to get to the end of the level, he didn't even want to try killing them in reverse order :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on July 20, 2007, 03:38:42 pm
Wait, Taka, the entire game only takes 20 minutes? or just the completed stuff so far?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on July 20, 2007, 03:57:52 pm
Current build means what is done so far. Trying to predict how long the finished game takes to play through would be kind of stupid wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on July 20, 2007, 04:20:34 pm
Current build means what is done so far. Trying to predict how long the finished game takes to play through would be kind of stupid wouldn't it?

Ah.. I missed current build.. :-[
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 21, 2007, 02:22:18 am
If the controls on Twinsen have not changed since the last demo, as in how the feel and such, then it's still poo in my opinion.

If you disliked the controls for the same reasons that I don't then you still won't enjoy them.
I haven't noticed much difference at all in the controls since the very first version I played.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 23, 2007, 09:10:13 am
The controls in the new build are much better imo, even if only slightly tweaked. Twinsen still almost walks like a mental patient on haldol tho.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Froli on July 25, 2007, 04:08:19 am
I know this might be troublesome but could anyone recognize the real artist of this images?

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/54082646/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/54081848/?qo=3&q=by%3Adoubleln2+in%3Ascraps&qh=sort%3Atime
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/54081982/?qo=2&q=by%3Adoubleln2+in%3Ascraps&qh=sort%3Atime
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/54082090/?qo=1&q=by%3Adoubleln2+in%3Ascraps&qh=sort%3Atime

which is very inconsistent compared to his current one
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/58181285/

<has own reasons why I'm caring enough for this trouble> :p
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: SovanJedi on July 25, 2007, 09:17:14 am
Hello everyone old and new! Wow, has this little community I've known and loved grown. :)

I should post more often! Or find time to pixel...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on July 25, 2007, 01:04:31 pm
Froli I do not recongize this how-to-draw artist, but it's clear this person has ripped him. There's so many 'how to draw manga' books out there, some of them extremely bad.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on July 25, 2007, 02:00:39 pm
imo it hardly matters sense those guys make a killing off of mediocre lessons, i cheer on anyone who cuts into such bullshit profit schemes, although i wish they would let people know that the lessons themselves are way below par.  Even burne hogarth and his garishly overrended + oversimplified superman "anatomy" lessons are miles ahead of that crap....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on July 27, 2007, 03:25:28 pm
Quote from: Maxim2735
Rate these paintings my 12 year old sister did
She's 13 now, but 12 when she did them.

http://a954.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/79/l_0d24ad028fe49c929b4b070c51031fc1.jpg
http://a966.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/114/l_2572975f70d752cdfe61c34e5d40ca8d.jpg
http://a538.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01483/73/51/1483291537_l.jpg

rofl anime
http://a86.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/107/l_b7e956963f3ea530233d9aee98419675.jpg
http://a224.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01091/32/27/1091927223_l.jpg

does anyone recognize any of the first 3?
if this girl is really painting like that, and then drawing things like the second two, someone really needs to stop her before she ruins her talent.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 27, 2007, 04:59:46 pm
The 2 landscape ones look like she been watching Bob Ross.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on July 27, 2007, 05:17:07 pm
what i hear there is "these are 3 paintings my sister did, she's talented for her age.  Next, here are 2 of my shitty drawings"

first'n definitely smacks of the ross-man, but i'd believe them all as the work of a talented freshman girl.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on July 28, 2007, 09:00:46 pm
Hello everyone old and new! Wow, has this little community I've known and loved grown. :)

I should post more often! Or find time to pixel...
Hey there, SovanJedi! I remember you! You killed in those Animation Challenges Adam Tierney set up on the old Pixelation.
Welcome back.

I still have your disgusting, Final fantasy-esque monster you made. I see you have it on your website, too
http://www.jontendo.co.uk/portfolio/scra/scrap04.png

Do find some time to pixel. I remember you had a lot of great animating tips.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on July 29, 2007, 05:24:31 pm
I hath hence forth remigrated hither! Or something. :-\
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 29, 2007, 09:13:54 pm
I found an awesome alphabet today.
It's called the Glagolitic alphabet.
It's the oldest known Slavic alphabet.

It has the letter Yus in it.


(http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4449/yusjr4.gif)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on July 29, 2007, 09:15:45 pm
 :lol: !yus!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: skw on July 30, 2007, 01:25:53 am
YEAH, I ALWAYS KNEW WE SLAVS ROCK! !yus!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on July 30, 2007, 04:07:02 am
Did I lose my ability to change my avatar or something  ???

I mean, I'm sure its a just a forum glitch, and it's probably been brought up before--hell, I might even just be turning manic, but regardless, I'd like some answers  :'(.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 30, 2007, 04:26:37 am
It's Helm and Ptoing's plan to make us slowly go insane, once we're vulnerable, they will attack, don't you see guys? The gun in the closet, the broken condom, the TV remote running out of batteries, it all makes sense now..... it all makes sense.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on July 30, 2007, 04:45:51 am
Arrgh I know, it drives me mad. It's disabled for the moment, if you want to change your avatar, you have to change the image at the URL that your current avatar points to. But my imagehost for my avatar is broken, so I can't change it to anything!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: alkaline on July 30, 2007, 05:11:01 am
everyone, storm Pixelation headquarters!

they'll pay for this negligence.  >:D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 30, 2007, 05:13:59 am
I'll go in first, I'll use my manly body to destroy the front door along with the guards.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on July 30, 2007, 06:04:56 am
Any plan to assault the Pixelation pink ninja guard is doomed to complete and utter failure. Bruce Lee rises from the grave to deliver a bitchslap. You are sent flying through the nearest two walls. -1 to your AA stat for even trying.

Maybe someone should kidnap/birdnap the Yus bird??
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on July 30, 2007, 07:25:29 am
No, as we are now, the Yus bird is untouchable - a superpowered deity of sorts. But now that we know its secret Slavic roots we can trace back its ancestry and find some sort of genetic weakness...Then, with the !yus! at our disposal, we will be able to control the mods and regain the reigns - the right to reign and rain harsh critical pain over this Pixelnation and drive newbs insane!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 30, 2007, 08:00:24 pm
Wait, I have an idea! We use the n00bs as a distraction :D, meanwhile, Xion and Rydin will sneak in the back and take on Helm, an epic battle will take place, Bruce Lee only comes back from the grave when the Konami code is used, so aslong as Ptoing doesn't find the NES controller and use it, we should be fine. Once Helm is defeated(We can assume Xion and Rydin will have died from blood loss), Crab and I will go attack Ptoing, only to be ambushed by Takam and Adarias, Crab being the loyal man he is, will sacrifice himself as I go into Ptoing's maze of doom. Faceless is working for us, thankfully and he poisoned Ptoing's drink so he would be weak enough for us two to defeat, as I get through the maze and finally to Ptoing's lair, OSHI- not good, he has the NES controller, thankfully Faceless takes it and uses the konami code for us to use Bruce Lee and then Bruce Lee is hungry so he eats Ptoing and Faceless on accident and then him and I go to my house and play Gears of War, the end. Oh and Lotekk slept in so he never got to see me be awesome.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on July 30, 2007, 10:27:45 pm
ill meet you on gears of war and own your ass.  better yet, do you play halo 2?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 30, 2007, 10:50:46 pm
Getting my mic tonight and hahahahahha no, you won't own me, also, I have Halo 2, but Gears > Halo 2.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on July 31, 2007, 02:52:15 am
What? I'm working for who?
I couldn't give a crap about the avatar thing; I update mine so infrequently it makes no difference.
I won't be ready for a new avatar for at least a year.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 31, 2007, 03:29:40 am
Just to let everyone know, my Gamertag is nabranika.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on July 31, 2007, 04:33:24 am
So why's it disabled?! :huh:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on July 31, 2007, 04:45:13 am
Because the mods got tired of people changing their avatars.





Naw, it just don't work.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on July 31, 2007, 05:10:36 am
Wait, I have an idea! We use the n00bs as a distraction :D, meanwhile, Xion and Rydin will sneak in the back and take on Helm, an epic battle will take place, Bruce Lee only comes back from the grave when the Konami code is used, so aslong as Ptoing doesn't find the NES controller and use it, we should be fine. Once Helm is defeated(We can assume Xion and Rydin will have died from blood loss), Crab and I will go attack Ptoing, only to be ambushed by Takam and Adarias, Crab being the loyal man he is, will sacrifice himself as I go into Ptoing's maze of doom. Faceless is working for us, thankfully and he poisoned Ptoing's drink so he would be weak enough for us two to defeat, as I get through the maze and finally to Ptoing's lair, OSHI- not good, he has the NES controller, thankfully Faceless takes it and uses the konami code for us to use Bruce Lee and then Bruce Lee is hungry so he eats Ptoing and Faceless on accident and then him and I go to my house and play Gears of War, the end. Oh and Lotekk slept in so he never got to see me be awesome.

 :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

Switching to lurk mode ... now.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 31, 2007, 05:22:32 am
Wow Crab, fate sucks for you, lol.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on July 31, 2007, 06:37:58 am
Well hey, at least Crab is Loyal. I mean, me and Rydin just DIE. And from blood loss, no less! How lame is that?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on July 31, 2007, 06:41:31 am
Good point, okay, so, you and Rydin become zombies and come my house and we all play halo 2(since Gears isn't 4 player offline), that better?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on July 31, 2007, 09:34:02 am
Oh no, I'd never go zombie....undead maybe--like a bad ass skeleton mercenary...but I'll never specifically go zombie.  :mean:

 I don't think the blood loss will be from any physical wound by the way; I think it'd be due to severe internal hemorrhaging caused by the brain trying to cope with the sheer righteousness of Helm simultaneously pixelling and doing a goat missionary.  Pixelling with ease I might add.  And with all the added stress of an audience. Man, I think my nose is already bleeding... :blind:

However, I'll have you know; I'd take one for the team if it'd mean we could change our avatars again. :ouch:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Conzeit on July 31, 2007, 04:10:10 pm
However, I'll have you know; I'd take one for the team if it'd mean we could change our avatars again. :ouch:

What's the big deal anyway? cant you just go to your host and replace this image with the one you want to use, while keeping the same filename? I dont even have THAT option C_C
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 31, 2007, 05:22:43 pm
The fixing on the forum is being worked on.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on July 31, 2007, 05:29:29 pm
Does that mean the working is being worked on? The act of fixing is being worked on?

Or do you really mean to say it's... in the process of being fixed? Well, you are, because if you had to work on the fixing of it, the fixing would still be in progress if the fixing is being worked on. So you could just say the forum's being worked on. Because that's what it means.



Gears < Halo
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on July 31, 2007, 06:33:41 pm
What I wanted to say is:

We have everything under control. There is nothing to see here, move on.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on July 31, 2007, 10:03:53 pm
I used imageshack for my avatar, so I can't really just upload a new picture under the same URL :(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on August 01, 2007, 03:07:09 am
Yeah, same here.  I guess we'll just have to wait.. :(




The funny thing is, is that I don't even want to change my avatar...and I don't plan on changing it any time soon. :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on August 01, 2007, 03:59:18 am
I got a few PMs and comments about mines looking like a Swastika, even though my idea for my avatar was never intended to be such, and I don't think it is, I can see how people see it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on August 01, 2007, 04:26:57 am
I think it's like four sickles.

So you're either fascist or half a communist.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Doppleganger on August 01, 2007, 04:32:27 am
I don't even have an avatar, what does that make me?

(insert self depreciating funny comment here)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on August 01, 2007, 04:40:51 am
This forum cracks me up.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on August 01, 2007, 05:37:03 am
Well, Doppleganger, I'd say that'd make you the perfect government.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Ragnarok on August 01, 2007, 01:06:27 pm
Splatpixel's signature is a lie. I'm the laziest person alive. Hey! Let's get married and have fat lazy kids!  :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 01, 2007, 07:14:43 pm
On a related note, Halo 3 will have 4-player online co-op (or two players on one 360 playing together with one or two other players via Live or system link also works). For some reason, despite having been an anti-online-coop person thus far, that gave me chills.

Marathon: Durandal on XBL Arcade also rules. I'll be buying it whenever I can bother aquiring some points to buy it with. New online support, polished graphics and better controls make it worth the money even though the original is available for free.

I will have NO money by the end of the year...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: SplatPixel on August 02, 2007, 12:13:10 am
thats impossible because i'm the laziest. lol, aren't you a guy? don't think 2 guys can make babies
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: SplatPixel on August 02, 2007, 09:35:17 am
theres this pretty cool challenge going on at deviantart.com, Pixel ID. take a look

http://scrotumnose.deviantart.com/journal/13854493/

i hope theres a new King of Spriters soon... heh
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on August 02, 2007, 06:46:17 pm
(This is a continuing conversation from here: http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=4618.0 I put it here because I don't think Halu needs to hear this in a topic where he needs help with his pixel art, I figured if I had put this in his topic, the flame war would just keep going there, so what better place than in the off-topic section?)

Guys, he'd be difficult to see in an actual game, all those blasts flying around, added, the smaller he is the easier the game is, which is what people don't want right? I only meant a bit bigger, okay? I didn't mean up him to giant size, because thats not exactly what you want with the player's ship either, I mean, there's not room for ANYTHING, under some resolution's he's just difficult to see, all we can really clarify at that size is that it's a ship, nothing more. I'm not saying I have some hate agenda against small sprites, it's just, yes, in other topics I have said people should make this or that bigger, but what the hell? Don't freak out just because I suggest making something bigger.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Ryan Cordel on August 02, 2007, 07:08:37 pm
You ought to make your post bigger. :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on August 02, 2007, 07:12:35 pm
.....................................  :-\
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: dragonrc on August 02, 2007, 07:54:01 pm
Nothing personal, but your posts are kind of stupid and unhelpfull. I know you try to help but when people post their pixels you should help them improve their work, not change it the way you like it.
Your first post in this topic is a good example:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=4616.msg57161#msg57161

Compare your crocodile to his, it's completely new. He wants to improve his cute cartoonish character, he doesn't want to make it into a big tough crocodile.

Help people to improve their work. Don't tell them how you think it should have looked.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on August 02, 2007, 07:56:36 pm
Croc the badass Croc was intended as a joke..... actually(Maybe the name just wasn't obvious enough). It was supposed to be a joke on how companies today try too hard to appeal to kids(Like the new Sonic and his friend Shadow who uses guns). I did suggest an actual style change, not completely, but the mockups were 2 years old, so I figured he wouldn't get mad over it, I still don't know who that hawk guy is. Remember guys: Everything I say is serious.

Right, so I got my mic, whose up for Gears?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 03, 2007, 03:41:32 pm
I was considering to post this in the Recorded Pixel Art Project topic, but decided against it.

Basically, can anyone recommend a good program to record the video and sound from my screen?
I plan on making a trailer for twinsen soon, and i have yet to find a program that can record both audio and video, while not slowing down the game to an almost unplayable degree.
Any suggestions would be very very appreciated

if worst comes to worst, I can always record a several thousand frame gif, convert to a movie file, then manually add in the music and sound effects :crazy:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on August 03, 2007, 05:04:40 pm
Camtasia studio is nice for that kind of thing. Google it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 04, 2007, 09:54:38 am
I tried the programs in the pixel art recording topic (one of which is camtasia) while it's probably the best I've tried so far the main downside is the audio quality is quite poor

still, thanks anyway :)

edit-
Today, I finished Super Metroid Redesign (http://drewseph.zophar.net/index.html), a rom hack made specifically for the Metroid elite.
what a game, the first couple hours are so brutal, but once you clear hells run (almost 0 chance for error) is where the game gets a bit easier.
I finished with 88.5% items and 19 hours play time, it really is a massive game, so if you want to see if you're good enough, prepare to be a bit overwhelmed by the massive map.

I also want to acknowledge how impressive a romhack this is, several parts of the game were completely new and had to be hard-coded, you've got the 3 bomb limit ala Prime, Shine sparking ala Fusion/Zero Mission, wall jump boots are needed, you can activate both space jump and screwattack individually on the same jump, I could go on.
It's almost an entirely new game, one I picked up to cope with the wait for Prime 3.

In other Metroid news, Gametrailers has been doing a Metroid Retrospective (http://www.gametrailers.com/game/5261.html), they've only done 2/5 parts, but they're doing a really good job, watch it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 05, 2007, 09:55:05 am
Taka, just record it using camtasia and then use a different audio software to record yourself, and put it as a soundtrack to the movie.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: RhysD on August 08, 2007, 05:37:06 am
anyone have a good recommendation for a graphics tablet? i'm looking into grabbing one, the mouse isnt doing it for me too much these days :P

was looking at a Wacom CTE-640/SO-C (6" X 8" - A5 size)

anyone have one of these? if so, how is it?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on August 08, 2007, 06:15:24 am
You gonna use it for pixel art only or no? No point in getting a pressure sensitive tablet if it'll only be used for pixel art.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on August 08, 2007, 06:58:35 am
Baw! Even if it's bought for the sole purpose of pixel art, he could still later try other media that better suits pressure sensitivity.
I have a hanvon tablet. Kinda crap, all its really got is pressure sensitivity. I'd recommend getting something worth more, ala a Wacom, but if you wanna save a few bucks, then the cheap alternatives aren't *bad*.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 08, 2007, 12:26:06 pm
Tablet threads:

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=3226.0
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=44.0
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2819.0
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: 9_6 on August 08, 2007, 12:33:13 pm
I am NOT pleased.
Each time I visit http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/ I am not logged in although I did log in during previous forum visits.
Yes I selected to stay logged in 'forever'.
Any explantation for that behaviour?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 08, 2007, 01:46:54 pm
Yes. The forum is broken and we're working to get it back on proper behaviour.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on August 08, 2007, 02:01:42 pm
Use http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php instead. It fixed it for me.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 08, 2007, 02:56:07 pm
That used to annoy me, too. Until I noticed, when you click on anything, you're suddenly logged in again. So I just middle-click the sections I want to open them in tabs, and suddenly I'm logged in and can see which threads have new replies!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Skull on August 08, 2007, 03:40:14 pm
That used to annoy me, too. Until I noticed, when you click on anything, you're suddenly logged in again. So I just middle-click the sections I want to open them in tabs, and suddenly I'm logged in and can see which threads have new replies!

Same. I'm logged out when I open the first page, but by clicking on a topic or section, I'm logged in!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on August 08, 2007, 04:02:02 pm
Use http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php instead. It fixed it for me.

this is what i've been doing for the last few months as well, works great
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: 9_6 on August 08, 2007, 04:05:05 pm
Well but the link from pixeljoint doesn't lead there and I'm too lazy to boomark this site :V

Also if I log in (I delete my cookies weekly) and then immediately view the newly posted topics, nothing shows up.
Is this a known error too?
(I don't really believe that noone posts for a whole week in this rather active forum so I believe it has to be an error.)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on August 08, 2007, 07:17:01 pm
If you're too lazy to bookmark the working link, then I don't think you have the right to complain about it. :-\
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on August 08, 2007, 07:32:01 pm
Well no offense to pixelation staff, I don't think you can blame a user for a problem the forums are having, no matter how lazy they are. It's really not their responsibility to work around an obvious cookie problem. Then again, no one is really a paying customer.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: 9_6 on August 08, 2007, 07:43:33 pm
If you're too lazy to bookmark the working link, then I don't think you have the right to complain about it. :-\
I was actually only checking if that kind of thing happens to more people than just me, not really that much of complaining more like pointing out a problem.
Since I am now aware that this is a known problem that is being worked on fixing I no longer have the intentions to 'complain' since I actually can live with that kind of thing because I keep the pixelation tab opened in opera -once I logged in.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on August 08, 2007, 07:49:24 pm
all these behaviors are known bugs and something we would have liked to have fixed a few months ago...but steps are being taken :)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 08, 2007, 08:22:53 pm
Yes, the situation is a bit peculiar, but that doesn't mean we're not doing anything about it. Patience.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zero on August 08, 2007, 10:36:11 pm
When you're on the main page not logged in, you can just click login without typing your username and password and it logs you in. That's how I do it anyway.

But this problem's not nearly as annoying as the no avatar nonsense.  :(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: RhysD on August 09, 2007, 06:46:31 am
You gonna use it for pixel art only or no? No point in getting a pressure sensitive tablet if it'll only be used for pixel art.

no, I want to start doing some digital paintings. I also do a lot of photo editing and getting precision is hard with a mouse :(

anyone know the major difference between the graphire and intous, and if one is better than the other for painting? the only thing I read is that the intous has more pressure point settings or something :S
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 09, 2007, 09:35:48 am
Taka, just record it using camtasia and then use a different audio software to record yourself, and put it as a soundtrack to the movie.
that was the plan, I've decided now that I'll use the built in recording function to get a screenshot of each frame, that way even if I do experience some slow down, there is none recorded, and I have full control over every pixel of every frame.

Originally I thought I would have to export all those frames as a giant gif, lose a bit of colour detail, then convert to a movie file, but I've discovered I can import the frames in windows movie maker, and save it as a movie file - Cutting out the middle man :)

The only annoying thing is the quickest speed it allows for each frame is 0.1 seconds, but once I convert it to a movie I can easily speed it up :)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on August 12, 2007, 12:47:21 pm
Type "innocent girl" on Google Images search and get exactly the opposite. :watev:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on August 13, 2007, 07:26:44 am
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html
'poemon trainter'!!
think we'll see 'ridlet' xion?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on August 13, 2007, 07:47:14 am
I sure hope so, Zolthy, I sure hope so.

And it's weird, because a Pokčmon Trainer is another character I'd been hoping they'd add. I never thought they would though...much less like this. I have the feeling I'll suck as him. Suck terribly. Still, the option is always nice.


Rydin: well I could've told you that. ::)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on August 13, 2007, 05:18:22 pm
ah neat!  its like zelda-sheik sort of, it sounds like...i wonder if you get to control poke-balls you pick up during battle?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Conzeit on August 13, 2007, 07:15:09 pm
Wow, I would never expect them to make a character that worked so far off their traditional game system.

When they added snake I was a little upset because I thought something as drastic as what they did with Pokemon Trainer would be the only way for him to really feel like himself. Here's hoping they put that kinda effort on Snake, that's who I really care about  :crazy:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on August 14, 2007, 10:44:58 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxx2KcPWWZg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxx2KcPWWZg)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Arachne on August 14, 2007, 07:31:04 pm
Looked at the server statistics for my site today:

Code: [Select]
1 98739 92,62% Windows
  89617 84,06%   Windows XP
  5478 5,14%   Unknown Windows
  2112 1,98%   Windows 2000
  880 0,83%   Windows 98
  605 0,57%   Windows Server 2003
  31 0,03%   Windows NT
  14 0,01%   Windows 95
2 4229 3,97% Macintosh
3 2639 2,48% Unix
  2626 2,46%   Linux
  13 0,01%   BSD
4 985 0,92% Unknown OS
5 18 0,02% Amiga

 :lol:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zero on August 14, 2007, 08:26:06 pm
Yea, the Pokemon trainer seems pretty interesting, I just don't like how you have to change pokemon:
Quote
If you keep fighting with the same Pokémon, or if you change them out too often, it’s not so good for the Pokémon.
Not too pysched about this character, but at least they finally started announcing new characters again. Ike (http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/ike.html) was quite a pleasant surprise.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: RhysD on August 15, 2007, 03:46:42 am
still pissed about this haha http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=3467.msg58155#msg58155 was up till 3am last night browsing around trying to find out more :(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 15, 2007, 03:59:25 am
Haha, somebody charges people to teach them to dress up dolls? Oh well, if people want to pay, I guess okay...

About her ripping you off, it's a bit difficult a situation to resolve. Ripping is easy to deal with when you 'control the environment'. Like here in Pixelation, you just talk to a mod and it's taken care off very quickly. When the environment is the internet by-and-large, it's not that easy. If push comes to shove you could contact that person's ISP and explain the situation and ask her website to be taken down or whatnot, but there's no telling if they'll agree with you or their paying customer as the legality of this whole thing is up to anyone's judgement. It might seem clear-cut to you but it's not, really.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: RhysD on August 15, 2007, 04:26:22 am
What's not clearcut about someone taking your work and re-selling it without your persmission >_> They even have a copyright disclaimer of their own on the site that says they're protected under US laws...nothing about International copyright laws ;)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 15, 2007, 04:40:16 am
Internet legal disputes over copyright most of all are very difficult to persue. Read up on the subject if you desire... it'll discourage you.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: RhysD on August 15, 2007, 05:49:24 am
That sucks...:( I'll see if I have any lawyer friends that know about do's and don'ts for internet related copyright to begin with I think.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on August 15, 2007, 06:21:01 am
Dude, it's not a big deal, the point of your website is to help people, their sites are doing the same, the only thing I see wrong is no credit taking place, even with that you're taking it too far.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: alkaline on August 15, 2007, 06:37:27 am
I wouldn't say just credit would be taking it too far, rather that's the least I would do. I wouldn't want someone else to take credit for my work.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: RhysD on August 15, 2007, 07:21:29 am
Dude, it's not a big deal, the point of your website is to help people, their sites are doing the same, the only thing I see wrong is no credit taking place, even with that you're taking it too far.

They are CHARING people $25 for the 6 week pixel course which is basically just my free tutorial. There's something wrong right there. They might be helping people by showing them the tutorial and that's fine, as long as I'm receiving credit where due. But they aren't, they making a profit from it, which is what shits me.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sharprm on August 15, 2007, 08:47:46 am
RhysD - I had some stupid ideas:

Are you able to make a website that would turn up on google whenever people did a search for the site that is charging 25$? Somehow use certain keywords to try to redirect them to your free tutorial? Or maybe put your tutorial on Wikipedia.

Have you informed the owners of that website? Perhaps there are a number of courses run by different people. They might remove that course to protect their company's reputation.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: RhysD on August 15, 2007, 08:52:28 am
I will be informing the owners of the website as soon as I can compose a well-reading e-mail ;) I'm not really great with words so it's probably going to take me all of tonight hehe.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on August 15, 2007, 05:49:16 pm
They are CHARING people $25 for the 6 week pixel course which is basically just my free tutorial. There's something wrong right there. They might be helping people by showing them the tutorial and that's fine, as long as I'm receiving credit where due. But they aren't, they making a profit from it, which is what shits me.
Oh, well raise hell then, their courses are full of blow anyway, the artwork preview shit are just pictures tooken from Andrew Loomis books.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: big brother on August 15, 2007, 07:10:01 pm
The hairstyles of the models are a dead give-away.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on August 16, 2007, 08:30:30 am
Dolls are the ULTIMATE art form.

That sucks that you're getting stolen from.   You've tried threatening emails, right?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on August 16, 2007, 04:40:45 pm
Is it me, or are the forums kind of sluggish(nothing new, has been for a long time now)? It seems threads take a loooong time to load, and even things like just viewing the list of threads loads like one thread at a time, very slowly. Of course, I'm on 56k which is ancient technology... but bleh, it's so painful to browse pixelation because half the time the page just stops loading midway because it takes too long.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on August 16, 2007, 07:52:01 pm
That sucks about the people ripping your work, but then....well, there's nothing there that a person could not simply figure out on their own or pick off any number of free sites.  The fact of it is that this is very low-level stuff obtainable anywhere.

In addition, all they need to do is deviate from your tutorial by a single word and suddenly the $25 is for the instruction and the tutorial is a supplement not included in the cost.  If I were teaching a class and told a student to read your free tutorial as supplement, there's nothing legally wrong with that.  Is it a bad deal to pay $25 if the bulk of it is free?  Of course!  Is it illegal?  Of course not!  Is the entire course based on just your tutorial?  Unlikely.

Dusty I have the same problem
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zero on August 16, 2007, 07:58:30 pm
I've never experienced any speed problems with this site, and my computer's not that good. (Not sure how much memory though.)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on August 16, 2007, 09:21:00 pm
It's a 56ker thing, elsewhere it works perfectly but on this compy it slows down and says "done" when only a couple posts are loaded.

I tend to avoid real nuisances by hitting "reply" even if i'm not going to because it limits the number of posts I need to load to just the new ones.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 17, 2007, 12:14:31 am
im on 8mb broadband and it suddenly became slooooow...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on August 17, 2007, 04:05:00 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxx2KcPWWZg
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on August 17, 2007, 04:09:07 am
Heh, I debated on posting this the other day...I figured everybody already seen it.  My brother showed me it actually....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on August 17, 2007, 04:56:51 am
I <3 that video....especially the thing about the 12 perfect colors and the "3d pipes" screensaver.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on August 17, 2007, 05:10:55 am
"Can we make the line thinner?" and Mr. Turtleneck are my favourite parts. lol I had a physics teacher who wore turtle necks and he looked about as good as the guy in the video.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on August 17, 2007, 05:28:31 am
I just love the part where the guy talks about having two erasers.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 17, 2007, 06:49:20 am
My favourite bit was 'can we have the lines thinner?' '...no.'
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zach on August 17, 2007, 08:03:19 am
hehe, if they only knew ;0
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: skw on August 17, 2007, 12:13:44 pm
Oh, after watching that video I will probably never wear a turtle-neck again. . . yeah, thank you, I loved them! THANK YOU SO MUCH, GUYS! *weep* . . .
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on August 17, 2007, 02:50:35 pm
>:0 I already posted that video one page ago!!! OUTRAGE!!!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Larwick on August 17, 2007, 03:55:35 pm
"We have a million ideas.  :)

If not two million.  :watev:"


Omg i lolled.  :y:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on August 17, 2007, 06:55:23 pm
Is Punaji down?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on August 17, 2007, 09:50:19 pm
Ptoing: You talk like I can read!

And yes, Punaji is down. Which is sort of strange, beings David had just talked about how art boards are a hopeless waste of time :\
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zach on August 17, 2007, 09:57:59 pm
it's more of a coincidence
he wouldn't be that of an asshole to just shut down punaji on us.
he was just proving an open point that art forums and how critiquing is handled is somewhat obsolete with the wrong a different variety of skilled artists...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on August 18, 2007, 01:48:30 am
I used to read punaji a lot, but the character of that board really didn't sit well with me for various reasons.

David always struck me as a little bit in love with himself and his work, but that's just an opinion.  The fact that he seldom listens to critique doesn't render it invalid, and the fact that he hasn't improved much in the last few years....well, I hope that he is satisfied with his current skill level.

Of course, he's never stuck me as a bad guy, and I don't see why anyone would dismantle a forum.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on August 18, 2007, 04:24:35 am
I wasn't saying he took the forums down intentionally for that reason or anything, Zach. I was just noting how the timing of it occurring was strange. His portfolio is down as well, so it's probably just the hosting server having maintenance done, being moved or what have you.

Quote
The fact that he seldom listens to critique doesn't render it invalid, and the fact that he hasn't improved much in the last few years....well, I hope that he is satisfied with his current skill level.
He's actually improved a lot with his watercolors and drawing in the past few months from what I've seen.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zach on August 18, 2007, 06:40:15 pm
adarias: I think you've missed out on his improvement because you haven't been to punaji for a while... like you said
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on August 18, 2007, 10:07:07 pm
Could be, post only a tiny fraction of my work so it wouldn't surprise me at all. Would tihnk though that even a narrow selection over time would show some change.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 19, 2007, 09:43:29 am
The future is in the past, though.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on August 19, 2007, 02:54:24 pm
The future is later.
My friend owns a pool.
I don't vote.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 19, 2007, 04:10:48 pm
i wish i had a pool.

i cant vote - i aint old enough yet  :'(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Panda on August 19, 2007, 04:27:07 pm
I don't like pools, and I don't vote because I'm not living in my home country (Not to mention that I'm not in tune with politics at all... so meh).

Anyway, Ptoing is visiting and we've been playing Taiko no Tatsujin DS, pretty fun.  ;D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on August 19, 2007, 04:44:04 pm
Those were actually lines from freeloveforum - Coal.

My friend does have a pool though, it's bad for my blecahed hair (always makes it look a little green for  day)

Once i'm old enough to vote I'll register.  I'm just moving from RI to NY, so it's hardly like it matters (republicans aren't going to get the win any time soon).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on August 19, 2007, 05:42:24 pm
I don't like pools (or bodies of water). I can't swim. Skinny people cut through water like knives, I guess. Or maybe it's just me.

I'll vote when I'm old enough via eenie meenie minie mo. And I'll vote on every issue, even before I know what it is.

And the future is Now.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jericho on August 19, 2007, 07:47:09 pm
Those were actually lines from freeloveforum - Coal.

My friend does have a pool though, it's bad for my blecahed hair (always makes it look a little green for  day)

Once i'm old enough to vote I'll register.  I'm just moving from RI to NY, so it's hardly like it matters (republicans aren't going to get the win any time soon).

it turns your hair green? My hair is almost white b/c i've bleached it so much and it's never turned green from pools LOL

I've been old enough to vote for a few years now but have never been inclined to do so.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on August 19, 2007, 08:16:16 pm
Yeah, his dad lurves the chlorine, it's practically poisonous to swim in.  The green tinge washes out easy of course, but I don't usually shower at guy friend's houses.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 19, 2007, 10:55:58 pm
Helm's hair says: don't dye your hair, and especially bleach it. It makes helm's hair cry. And it ain't pretty when hair cries, I get all soaked wet!

The future is pending.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faktablad on August 20, 2007, 12:19:54 am
Blick: I saw Fairbanks in the book of top 50 worst places to live in the U.S.  It said "Take a terrible place to live, subtract light, and you get Fairbanks, Alaska".
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on August 20, 2007, 04:01:27 am
I don't usually shower at guy friend's houses.

Because that would make you gay.

 :-*

But seriously!  Chlorine does not make your hair turn green (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_causes_bleached_blonde_hair_to_turn_green_after_swimming).  And yeah, don't bleach your hair if you can avoid it, it will feel like straw and then if you don't re-bleach it regularly you're left with dumb lookin hair for at least a month; cuz a dude with roots is not what you want to be.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: RhysD on August 20, 2007, 04:31:43 am
Helm's hair says: don't dye your hair, and especially bleach it. It makes helm's hair cry. And it ain't pretty when hair cries, I get all soaked wet!

The future is pending.

haha so true, never dyed my hair, don't intend on it...unless I go grey before i'm 30.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 20, 2007, 08:52:40 am
I'd love to go grey at 30! I mean, I love my hair. It's so long and flowy and I love the color which I have my mom to thank for. It gets red highlights in sunlight!

But grey hair looks cool. Especially long grey hair. I'd be, like, a young Gandalf or something. Even though his is white, not grey... I can understand why females (like my mom) make a habit of dying their hair... mom tends to dye hers in the color it used to be before she turned 50. That makes sense to me. But I still don't get why guys want to dye their hair. I know a couple of brown haired friends who've dyed their hair black a number of times. It looks kinda silly to me, because I think I can tell the difference between natural black and artificial black. I guess I could understand if it was a theme or something, but if you go about with the exact same clothes and shoes and attitude as before, but with a new, slightly different hair color... why do it? It costs money to do that! Money you can spend on clothes that also change your look but last longer, or... or video games!

I tried the Stranglehold demo on 360 yesterday. I'm totally buying it sometime. It's like Max Payne minus drama plus even more bullet time. And sliding down handrails while shooting people.

Anyway, I'd like if my hair turned grey. I'd look sophisticated and defined. I like my hair color, but I couldn't get it back if I tried, so I don't see the point in trying. Besides, I hope my hair goes white when I'm old, and I'm still able to grow it fairly long. Long, white hair looks awesome on old people.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Mr.Modem on August 20, 2007, 09:26:54 am
My friend does have a pool though, it's bad for my blecahed hair (always makes it look a little green for  day)

So that dude in your partisan thread is actually you after a swim?  :P

and oh, the future is....disappointing
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 20, 2007, 09:38:12 am
Quote
I think I can tell the difference between natural black and artificial black.

Everybody can.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 20, 2007, 01:09:33 pm
Everybody can pagebreak?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 20, 2007, 02:23:56 pm
Dude this is the second time I img tag a quote. I don't know what's wrong with me.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 20, 2007, 02:30:24 pm
It's because an img says a thousand words.

Also, I have no clue why I said I THINK. I guess it's because I don't think I really know any natural black haired people... except my dad, of course. But I haven't seen him in almost a year. Damn, time flies...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on August 20, 2007, 02:59:52 pm
I tried the Stranglehold demo on 360 yesterday. I'm totally buying it sometime. It's like Max Payne minus drama plus even more bullet time. And sliding down handrails while shooting people.
Better try that out as well, sounds like fun. The bioshock demo was nice too and it has received very high scores on reviews... coming out this week i think.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 20, 2007, 03:57:21 pm
bioshock will be awesome.

in the meantime my 360 has gone away to be mended by the nice microsoft people, however i suspect they will just replace it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Malor on August 21, 2007, 12:12:16 am
what's happening to 360's? I am worried because I purchased one 1 week ago D:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jericho on August 21, 2007, 12:50:57 am
I don't usually shower at guy friend's houses.

Because that would make you gay.

 :-*

But seriously!  Chlorine does not make your hair turn green (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_causes_bleached_blonde_hair_to_turn_green_after_swimming).  And yeah, don't bleach your hair if you can avoid it, it will feel like straw and then if you don't re-bleach it regularly you're left with dumb lookin hair for at least a month; cuz a dude with roots is not what you want to be.

haha my hair is strong =p i bleach it every month or so and no strawhead yet. But yes..crunchy hair is a nono
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on August 21, 2007, 05:13:05 am
what's happening to 360's? I am worried because I purchased one 1 week ago D:

Extremely high defect rate. Mine has a faulty DVD drive(tray doesn't always open, occasionally unable to read disks), but luckily no overheating so far. I talked to a local retailer and they suspect 20-30% of 360s lasting less than a year. Good thing they extended the warranty, so no need to worry. In comparison Wii and PS3 are somewhere under 1%, which is far below the industry standard of 3-5%.

What's with everyone bleaching their hair?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on August 21, 2007, 08:30:24 am
What's with everyone bleaching their hair?

They just wanna be ganguro (http://yoe.iki.fi/img/ganguro.jpg).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 21, 2007, 09:45:14 am
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/TakaM/Twinsen/majorglitch.gif)
 :(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: dragonrc on August 21, 2007, 12:38:24 pm
Maybe an invisible wall? Or an invisible floor that goes outside the room?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Ryan Cordel on August 21, 2007, 01:53:04 pm
glitches ftw.

That would look interesting to abuse for a Twinsen speedrun though, I guess. :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 21, 2007, 02:24:23 pm
heheh, there are about a dozen glitches currently in twinsen, most of them are pretty minor stuff like twinsen's arms going up and down when he changes direction mid-jump, and the clouds moving 1 frame later than the sky.
but there are some exploits that are kinda handy and tough to pull off, but not tough enough, so they must go >:0

falling off the edge of the level is pretty useless though, because you can only do it once you reach the end of the level, and since twinsen moves 2 pixels per frame as his slowest pace, you need to move onto the first pixel where there is no floor collision, meaning you can only do it half the time at best :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 24, 2007, 10:25:21 am
we've been looking after my uncles dog (Don) for the last two weeks while he's in las vegas, and I hate the little punk.
To be fair, my uncle hasn't trained him at all, he doesn't sit or anything, and he's constantly jumping into the doors and windows- wanting to come inside.
and he's just annoying, like I'll play fetch with both of them, Jazz will chase the ball, run back and drop it at my feet, Don will just piss allover it etc

Anywho, our neighbours took a photo of both dogs today, they climbed up the fence and were peeking over:
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/29/dsci0340mp8.jpg)
as much as I don't like don, its a nice photo

edit-
just realized I double posted  :-[
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 25, 2007, 09:10:56 am
BAN'D

Oh crap I can't do that anymore..

Oh crap, I've never been able to do that... Oh well.

I'd say it's alright. No one's posted in this thread for FOUR DAYS anyway. I think people have fallen asleep, or caught on fire. I almost burst into flames two days ago when walking to school. It's seriously that freaking warm here. Well, I guess most of America has it even worse, I'm still pretty far up north... but still, this is beyond the kind of warmth that I'm used to. It's downright unpleasant.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Froli on August 25, 2007, 11:27:25 pm
Thank god it's finally raining here... I really hate the unnatural heat combined with the erratic weather.

Oh yeah, something painful to watch 
Miss Teen USA 2007
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on August 26, 2007, 12:00:24 am

Oh yeah, something painful to watch 
Miss Teen USA 2007
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww


Whoa...wha-.. hmmmm...

I'm not sure the answer "Education in the United States should help South African countries so we will be able to build up our future" is an adequate response to the question: "Why do you think 5% of the American population cannot locate the U.S. on a map."

This is why other countries dislike the U.S.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on August 26, 2007, 06:00:11 am
(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7316/51964119ry5.jpg)

anyone seen this?
can you uh spot the not O_o
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on August 26, 2007, 06:16:33 am
Quote
can you uh spot the not O_o
It's terrible, Frank! My father died the same way... (From crappy game-porting ideas, that is)

I mean, seriously, how could that not upset the balance? Have a team of 5 Gafgarions at the beginning of chapter 2?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: am_pm on August 26, 2007, 07:50:09 pm
So I actually decided to find out what all this Cave Story hype is about. Wow. I am impressed. It is really fun to play with my Xbox 360 controller.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on August 26, 2007, 07:58:53 pm
Actually I prefer to use my keyboard for cave story. That way I get to use my Left Middle Finger of Mashing Doom to kill the bosses in no time :]

Otherwise than that, playing with a gamepad is nice :D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on August 27, 2007, 12:18:25 am
Quote
can you uh spot the not O_o
It's terrible, Frank! My father died the same way... (From crappy game-porting ideas, that is)

I mean, seriously, how could that not upset the balance? Have a team of 5 Gafgarions at the beginning of chapter 2?

you can be level 99 before chapter 2, the game is not balanced
it jumps between way too easy
and stupidly hard
based on certain qualities of the engine

i was rather referring to how out of style the sprite was, it sticks out like a sore thumb, a sore thumb with a very flat head.
the onion knight fits relatively well, if it's not a bit bright.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Froli on August 27, 2007, 05:03:34 pm
Metroid prime 3 IGN review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX_w5CSKfrI
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 27, 2007, 09:36:59 pm
Lots of metroid reviews have been rolling out, and gametrailers has just finished their retrospective of the franchise:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/5261.html

I'm really dreading when gamespot puts up their review, shall we place bets? I'm thinking an 8.4/10

edit-
and the gamespot review is in, 8.5/10 for Prime 3 :P classic gamespot, such idiots..
they also gave Super Metroid an 8.5/10, their justification was "Nintendo waited 13 years to let us play Super Metroid again." :crazy: :y:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 27, 2007, 10:01:52 pm
Reading Festival was the dogs bollocks,  never smoked so much weed in 5 days before!

seriously reccomend it to anyone, just a great exerience - so much so i hardly noticed i was away from the interwebz :p
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: am_pm on August 27, 2007, 10:26:21 pm
Actually I prefer to use my keyboard for cave story. That way I get to use my Left Middle Finger of Mashing Doom to kill the bosses in no time :]

Otherwise than that, playing with a gamepad is nice :D

I dunno, it's just more fluid with a gamepad. It reminds me so much of the classic NES games. I love it!


It makes me want to make a sidescrolling RPG. Maybe a Hack and Slash. That would be cool. But it would also be Castlevania. Oh well.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 28, 2007, 09:13:35 am
and the gamespot review is in, 8.5/10 for Prime 3 :P classic gamespot, such idiots..

Huh? Is Corruption better than that? Doesn't look it to me. I had high hopes in the beginning, but the more they showed the less I want it. I actually dare say I still have no reason to buy a Wii. In the beginning, it was Zelda and Red Steel. However, I've never bought a Zelda game in my life, so that I didn't do it this time is no surprise. Red Steel turned out mediocre. Then Prime and SSBB remained. SSBB will be great, but not great enough for me to buy a console for, especially when I have no friends to play it with. And Prime, like I said, has lost more and more of its appeal to me.

Besides, 8.5 is WAY above avarage. On Gamespot's scale, I find anything above 7 buy-worthy at full price, as long as it's not a genre I happen to hate. The bad points seem fair, too. Score reduced because it feel less adventurous and more of an action game (something I've been worrying about all the time), it's too similar to the previous games (something I hated about Echoes, half of the enemies were just remakes of Prime enemies, and the level design was similar - but worse), and some context-sensitive stuff doesn't work very well. Seem like fair points to me.

However, it got more of those good "badge" type thingies than any other game I've seen since Gamespot redesigned their system. It got awards for awesome bosses, sharp controls (a first on the Wii), outstanding visual design, and great sequel. And the review even states that if you like Metroid, you WILL buy Corruption, you have no reason not to. I don't know how you can call that a bad review. How does that make the editor an idiot?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 28, 2007, 10:36:06 am
the thing is, gamespot does a terrible job at reviewing games.. I've had to defend myself too much today regarding this, so forgive me if I don't sound enthused.
gamespot gave warioware (wii) a 9.1/10
It looked to be a decent game, I definitely wasn't going to buy it, and it definitely doesn't look better than metroid.
gamespot gave the RE4 remake a 9.1/10
A remake of a gamecube game that offered absolutely nothing new except wii controls.
Metroid Prime 3 is one of the biggest games of the year, especially for nintendo fans, it's been built from the ground up specifically for the Wii, and they still somehow managed to list the intuitive and immersive controls as a con because they make the game "too easy"

I don't really have a problem with gamespot's score, but it's the fact their reviews are constantly 10% off the norm, usually in the opposite direction of others and they never explain intelligently why.
And because they're still "a good score" people consider gamespot just as relevant and totally look past their sloppy, retarded, nonsensical review, simply because the score is "still a good score"

Look at the super metroid review, a game that is no stranger to top ten lists and has claimed the #1 spot more than once, they also gave it an 8.5 simply because nintendo waited 13 years to port it.
Is that a con?
if nintendo did port the game to GBA or DS, you can bet gamespot would've docked 6 points off because they didn't want a port.
they make no sense, and just because their scores are "still good" does not mean I'm going to look past it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 28, 2007, 06:52:10 pm
Heh, we're complete opposites, then. I've had to defend Gamespot, because so far they've only had TWO reviews I've ever disagreed with. They're usually exactly in tune with my own opinion.

I can't comment on those examples, except for RE4, which I don't doubt is one of the, if not the best game available for the Wii right now. It's a completely amazing game, even if it's just a straight port with new controls, that still makes it a completely amazing game - if maybe a bit older than the first time it showed up.

He never said the controls make it too easy, he meant they seem to make it more of an action game than an adventure game. The first Prime made it very obvious it's not an FPS because it didn't use the dual thumbstick control scheme. No need for precise aiming, more focus on tactics in battles, and exploration outside of them. That little nuance is gone in Corruption. I think that's what he wanted to point out. I do hear it's much more action oriented than the previous games, and less exploration based.

Gamespot's reviews are constantly 10% off the norm? Compared to what? The only sites I actually look at for serious reviews are IGN and Gamespot, and IGN seem to score good games even higher and bad games even lower. Gamespot are extremely good at avoiding handing out perfect ratings. IGN is worse at that. IGN are also much better at focusing so much on minor flaws in games that they consistently forget to mention some of the good things. Gamespot, in my opinion, make it perfectly clear exactly what's good and what's less good about every game they've reviewed lately. That, in combination with the score, paints a really clear picture to me. You shouldn't just go by the score alone, it's more of a compliment to the review itself.

Super Metroid you say? 8.5 seems right to me. Well, I might prefer it a bit closer to 9. Say... 8.8 or something like that. Why, what'd you rate it? Without being blinded by nostalgia, of course. I couldn't, I played Super Metroid for the first time a mere three years ago. I remember finding it too easy, actually, very uninteresting enemies, and extremely strange, floaty controls that took me hours to get used to. Seriously. However, it IS still one of the best exploration based games, the art is great and the music is fantastic. So 8.8 seems fine to me.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Ornust on August 28, 2007, 10:46:07 pm
I suppose if you love the Metroid series, you would be inclined to buy Corruption and/or rate it an extremely high number.

In other news, my PC stopped booting up, so I won't be making a fool of myself for a while.  I'm typing this on my Wii. Auto Dictionary for the win.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: OzBlueShoes on August 29, 2007, 12:33:08 am
I had a crazy idea for a challenge... couldn't find the ideas thread though so here it is...

I was playing tetris, and I had left the far left side empty, so if I got a | piece, I could get the 4-clears in a row. And then it appeared... the face of our lord god, Arthur Fonzarelli. Kidding... but it looked somewhat like a generic smiley face. I was wondering if anybody would try a tetris like color area restraint. Basically, your pixel image would have to be made up pixels form like tetris blocks (remember, 4 blocks a piece) and each tetris piece being a color itself. Now, if you want to get super-challenged, you could make each similar piece a similar color as well. I'd pay to see something like that (as long as it wasn't too small, and unchallenging).

Any takers?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on August 29, 2007, 01:19:17 am
Reading Festival was the dogs bollocks,  never smoked so much weed in 5 days before!
never smoked so much weed in 5 days before!
never smoked so much weed in 5 days before!

D:

---

I play Cave Story (when i play it) with a gamepad as well, I can't find myself playing platformers on a keyboard very effectively. I beat R-Type 3 last weekend, (emulated, mind you, only save-stated at regular checkpoints, though. :P)  Seriously though, does _anyone_ play that game for score? Ridiculous.

Anyway, kinda bummed now that school is in session, taking 3 AP courses this semester alone. Have no idea how I am going to schedule work around the work, but I need to pay off my car. I'm also finding less time to finish a game I am working on, which is frustrating because this one is actually GOING somewhere, and I am interested in finishing it (this is a very rare thing.)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 29, 2007, 01:52:24 am
woo, drugs  :-\

R-type is certainly beatable with one coin and it appeals to a certain type of shooter player, the one that likes the memorex thing, not the twitch thing.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 29, 2007, 07:52:06 am
Heh, we're complete opposites, then. I've had to defend Gamespot, because so far they've only had TWO reviews I've ever disagreed with. They're usually exactly in tune with my own opinion.

I can't comment on those examples, except for RE4, which I don't doubt is one of the, if not the best game available for the Wii right now. It's a completely amazing game, even if it's just a straight port with new controls, that still makes it a completely amazing game - if maybe a bit older than the first time it showed up.

He never said the controls make it too easy, he meant they seem to make it more of an action game than an adventure game. The first Prime made it very obvious it's not an FPS because it didn't use the dual thumbstick control scheme. No need for precise aiming, more focus on tactics in battles, and exploration outside of them. That little nuance is gone in Corruption. I think that's what he wanted to point out. I do hear it's much more action oriented than the previous games, and less exploration based.

Gamespot's reviews are constantly 10% off the norm? Compared to what? The only sites I actually look at for serious reviews are IGN and Gamespot, and IGN seem to score good games even higher and bad games even lower. Gamespot are extremely good at avoiding handing out perfect ratings. IGN is worse at that. IGN are also much better at focusing so much on minor flaws in games that they consistently forget to mention some of the good things. Gamespot, in my opinion, make it perfectly clear exactly what's good and what's less good about every game they've reviewed lately. That, in combination with the score, paints a really clear picture to me. You shouldn't just go by the score alone, it's more of a compliment to the review itself.

Super Metroid you say? 8.5 seems right to me. Well, I might prefer it a bit closer to 9. Say... 8.8 or something like that. Why, what'd you rate it? Without being blinded by nostalgia, of course. I couldn't, I played Super Metroid for the first time a mere three years ago. I remember finding it too easy, actually, very uninteresting enemies, and extremely strange, floaty controls that took me hours to get used to. Seriously. However, it IS still one of the best exploration based games, the art is great and the music is fantastic. So 8.8 seems fine to me.
I'm not happy because you've brought me to re-read gamespots retarded reviews in an effort to make their stupidity undeniable.
I will put the RE4 Wii version review up against the Prime 3 review.

First, it is clear to note that gamespot did not deduct any points from RE4 because it was a port, they atleast did not state that they did - they didn't list the fact it's a port in the cons list, and he repeatedly delivered stumbled sentences insisting that even though it's a port it's still good etc.
Honestly, the RE4 review isn't written too badly, but I'd still disagree with the score, the best version of the game? probably, but since it's taken them four versions to get it the best it can be I would deduct points.

The MP3 review however is a god damn mess.
like all gamespot reviews it starts off by listing the pros and cons in an effort to save you the brain damage from reading their review.
for the pros, he lists the excellent environmental puzzles, boss fights, level design, and the overall gameplay.
in the cons he lists some of the motion sensitive controls aren't always read successfully, the "streamlined" controls make the game too easy, and points out that it's a sequel.

the first paragraph seems to take no notice of the pros and con list, assuring those that MP3 continues the excellent series, the controls are "terrific and intuiitive", "is a dream",etc.
then further contradictions stating the combat is "easier" and the overall design is "conservative"

the next paragraph he reminds players that the first metroid prime was great, and even though this third game is a "solid successor" somehow it shouldn't stop you from checking it out.
this review is littered with back-handed compliments like this that make no god damn sense and is a clear depiction that this is not a review, this is propaganda disguised as a review and covered up with a "still good score"

Forget the fact that yes there are metroid fanboys complaining about nothing more than the score, and consider that for this review they gave it the score of a 4/10.
It would fit in just as well, the only difference it would make is the fact that no one could argue gamespot's writers are not idiots.

Almost every paragraph starts with "If"s and "But"s, they constantly dance around noting anything substantial about Prime 3, and infact I'd say they make more better points when they reference back to prime1/2
And whenever he finds himself praising some part of the game, he quickly rights himself and brings up the context sensitive controls that he has a problem with.
I'd like to point out that IGN praised the context sensitive controls, and went so far to say they were beautifully implemented and did not feel gimmicky at all.
I'm going to wait until I get the game to pass judgement myself, but I'll also remind you gamespot is home to fat lazy reviewers who tried to bowl sitting on the couch swinging their arm like some sort of handicap and then blamed it on the game when they kept getting gutter-balls.
and then of course in the final paragraph he mentions the disappointing lack of multiplayer.

does it sound like I hate gamespot?
I'm really not trying to hide it, they write like idiots, they do not know how to assess games with their constant use of phrases like "gives the impression" "looks like", I've long since gotten sick of their back handed reviews and their constant stream of contradictory and illogical reviews.


I greatly prefer reviews from IGN and GT, why?
because the guys at IGN and GT to me, are gamers first, and reviewers second.
they're not these pretentious cynical assholes that go into every review with a dozen back-handed compliments and a score they'll scramble to justify in mind.
they just make proper notes of things the game did a good job delivering, or didn't.

Quote
Not sure if anyone wants to bother nore care about it, but GS has always been slanted against Nintendo, well at least for 10 years now. I have proof too. Using gamerankings.com you can search how a online/print magazine reviews games PER system. If you check this generation (wii, 360, ps3) you will find that Wii games get scored 2% lower than everyone else AND only 40% of their reviews for Wii are higher than the others (as in they come dead last.) The 360 is down by almost 1% and their average is around 50%, but when it's the PS3 they UPreview over other sites by I think 7% and 67% of their reviews are HIGHER than the rest of the sites.

NOW that's documented slant.
Quote
Man, I wasn't going to post about this...

Like a lot of other people, I was kind of surprised to see the 8.5, especially given IGN's review and the seeming consensus that this is a top-notch game, and probably Wii's finest thus far. But, hey -- I respect a diversity of opinion, and anyways, most people are right: no sense in whining about the score a game gets when we haven't even played it yet. Right?

But then I read the review and... boy, it submarines this game! I'm sure you've heard the expression "damned by faint praise." The idea being that if you call something "fairly good," "decent," or "passable" it has the same negative effect (and sometimes stronger) than calling it "bad." Well the idea of "faint praise" is too strong for this review. It reads almost as though the reviewer wants the game to fail. Conspiracy-theory much? Yeah, I don't want to go down that road, but let's take a look:

The game is an 8.5, right? That's a high score. Should mean that this is a very good game, right? It is, after all, "a high-quality continuation of the series" with "terrific and intuitive" controls. Now... if this is a high-quality continuation of a series that has thus far scored 9.7 and 9.1, it should be pretty darned good. Yet the remainder of the opening paragraph -- more than half -- starts to run negative, saying that the game "does exactly what you expect it to do, no more and no less." Hmm...

The second paragraph digs in hard, comparing this game to its lauded progenitor: "{w}hile Metroid Prime spectacularly ushered Metroid gameplay into a 3D vision, Corruption is content to be a solid successor." "Content" makes the designers sound lazy, and "solid" isn't a very enthusiastic description. Are 8.5s "solid"? Then, the reviewer assures us that "{we} shouldn't let some spurts of predictability dissuade you from checking it out"... well, I should hope not if it's an 8.5... I mean, that's really good, right? "Terrific and intuitive" controls, right? I mean, why does the reviewer start to sense that his review of this 8.5 game might dissuade us from even checking it out? But he can't even let it rest there... not just anyone should check this out, but "particularly if you are a Metroid enthusiast." Here the review starts to insinuate that the game is good, not just for people who enjoy games like Prime, but for those who are specifically Metroid-people. "Enthusiasts," which is a not-too-subtle euphemism for Fanboys.

The reviewer seemingly cannot compliment the game without immediately following up with some sort of an insult or criticism. Check out this from the fourth paragraph: "The obvious change here is in the controls, and Corruption leaves behind the methodical maneuvering of its GameCube brethren with an intuitive and configurable scheme that sets the standard for first-person shooting controls on the Wii, despite Corruption's battles not being all that challenging." Good God, what a sentence. First, he cheapshots the GameCube with its "methodical maneuvering"... which... I guess... would be roughly equivalent to the methodical maneuvering currently found on all the other consoles, right? Then, he states that this control set-up "sets the standard...on the Wii"! Excuse me, but... why the modifier? Consensus seems to be that this control set-up "sets the standard" period. For the 360. For the PS3. For all of them. Then, and despite the fact that it doesn't strictly relate to the quality of the controls, he ends the sentence by slighting the game's challenge. I won't count them all out to you, but I dare you to comb through the article and take a look at the "compliments" -- they almostalways go hand-in-hand with a slight.

Not that the reviewer needs the excuse of balancing a compliment to slam the game. In the third paragraph, in referencing the idea that the reviewer doesn't plan on spoiling us, he takes a gratuitous pot shot: "(Not that the Prime games have ever strived to set standards for gaming fiction.) " Well, great. What does that mean? That the story's weak? No -- the reviewer wouldn't go so far; his goal is, apparently, to make his review seem positive while infusing it with insults and complaints.

All in all, we learn that the control scheme "{has} been done before, of course," that the game is "without a sense of challenge," and that it is too much a FPS (apparently due to the smooth controls) which "keep{s} it from being as special as the other Prime titles." Indeed, that "Corruption loses some of its sense of wonder and strangeness on the Wii. Rather than being a true action adventure, it's hard to lose the sense that it's merely an FPS with trimmings."

Wow. Now... how do we reconcile the idea that it's lost its "sense of wonder" when the game "features superb art direction, so every level is even more incredible to explore than the last"? Or that it's no longer a "true action adventure" when "you'll need to use your wits as much as you use weapons that turn alien scum into goo" and "{e}nvironmental puzzles are generally as good in Corruption as they've ever been"? Furthermore, how do we reconcile any of these serious criticisms with such a high score?

I guess it doesn't matter, that we don't have to worry ourselves about it, because "any fan ought to enjoy this outing in spite of those quibbles" {read "fan" as Metroid enthusiast}, "[t]he exotic worlds of Corruption will excite series fans" and "{i}f you're a Metroid fan, there's no need to convince you to play Metroid Prime 3: Corruption." In other words, the reviewer is saying that Metroid Fanboys will like this game no matter what...

...but the true point of this review is: if you're not already a "series fan," then despite the 8.5, you don't really need to bother with it.

The review is muddled, self-contradictory, and worse: against my better judgment, I walk away thinking that it sets out to intentionally sabotage the game that it purports to praise (remember: 8.5 is "high"). I don't know why; I can't fathom motive; but it's in the review, if you read it carefully.

I know it's been said before, but, do we even have to speculate that, when Halo 3 comes out, its reviewer will talk about how the game "feels familiar"? Or how Halo's controls don't match up to the industry leader (Metroid Prime 3, for the Wii), as Wii reviews nearly always mention how the graphics just can't compare to those of other systems? Will we be told that it's been "done before"?Of course not. We know Halo 3's review won't have any of that. Maybe this isn't a double standard. But, if it's not a double standard, then I guess I just don't know what "double standard" means.
another interesting thing is I've found a lot of intelligent comments from people who are disgusted by gamespot, and none from people who favour them.
I guess it's just easier to be an elitist cynic because you aren't obliged to explain yourself.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 29, 2007, 08:54:07 am
Eh, sorry, I can't bother to read that massive quoty textblock right now. But I do agree somewhat. The guy who reviewed Corruption is one of my least favorite Gamespot editors. Actually, I gotta check something...


Yep, as I thought, all three Prime games were reviewed by different editors. That explains the scores. Each review is credited to ONE editor. That's something you shouldn't forget. You can't just say "Ooh this entire site is biased in THIS direction", because each editor is an individual being, they write their own reviews and put them on the site. I agree with mr. Kasavin's review on the first Metroid Prime. Mr. Shoemaker (who's a pretty funny guy otherwise) gave Echoes a bit too high a score actually, if you ask me. For some reason, I was not entertained by Echoes at all. I borrowed it from my friend, I didn't even bother buying it. I played it through once, then tried again on the hard difficulty to try to squeeze a bit of more entertainment out of it, but I got tired just a few hours in and just returned the game. It didn't feel fun to me at all.

Alright, I agree, when compared, 8.5 seems ridiculously low a score. But that's partly because Echoes' score was way too high. I'd rather see the Echoes and Corruption scores switch places, even though I haven't actually played Corruption so I can't tell how fair that is (all my impressions so far have come from friends and fellow fans on the m2k2 boards).


Okay, so I read the massive quoteblock. The last bit about Halo 3 confused me a bit. Halo 3 doesn't have any of that "feels like I've done this before" deal, because the majority of the enemies are brand new, almost half of the weapons are brand new, there's like four or five brand new vehicles and every single map has something that the previous games haven't been able to do. Besides, in a way, I still think the control scheme comment is correct, even though it's phrased oddly. Imagine if Halo 3 would have fewer enemies and more platorm jumping, and the dual analog configuration was remade to be more like Prime to make the platform bits easier. That'd be completely strange. It'd be as strange as if Prime suddenly got a dual-analog scheme instead and had more focus on action instead of adventuring. Oh wait, that's pretty much what happened in Corruption.

But you're right, 8.5 seems too low when compared. Not that you should compare, really, but sometimes you have to. However, I'd have to play Corruption to be able to say anything more about it, and that won't happen because there's nothing that makes me want a Wii now. Too few good games, too MANY good games coming for the 360. Maybe in a year I'll end up buying one - we'll see. Ooh, maybe if they'd release an F-Zero or StarFox title...


[edit] Oh, and I've never seen any intelligent comment about any game review site, until now. I've never seen anyone else stand up for Gamespot. Why is beyond me, because I still trust them the most I've ever trusted any reviewer (except the guys on Attack Games here in Sweden while they still existed...) [/edit]
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 29, 2007, 09:23:05 am
yah I'd agree with MP2 being a bit overrated, and it looks to be the worst of the prime trilogy (second if you count hunters)
and the halo 3 comment is a bit of a stretch, it makes a bit more sense to swap it with re4 :p
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 29, 2007, 11:40:36 am
woo, drugs  :-\

nothing wrong with a little high now and then...  marijuana will be legal here within the next 10 years...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 29, 2007, 01:02:19 pm
woo, drugs  :-\

nothing wrong with a little high now and then...

That can be argued from many standpoints, not sure if I want to get into that discussion right now. But I don't think there's things severily wrong with soft drugs that aren't wrong with alcohol abuse. Addictive substances that put 'artifical happiness' within reach at any given time are a recipe for abuse. Even if it doesn't kill you, I'll tell you that I know very-very few people who are regular users where it hasn't taken over their life.


Quote
marijuana will be legal here within the next 10 years...

That is very likely and probably for the best.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on August 29, 2007, 01:43:26 pm
   I've just never understood the fascination of weed. I've tried it, but never got it. Than again, I don't understand alchohol, as everytime I drink a couple beers, the taste just gets disgusting. Liquor is liquor. I guess I'm just not normal or something, but I just don't understand the fascination of drugs, as humans know that their bad, yet they still do it, as even some animals prefer to drink fermented fruits that have the ability to get them drunk, like monkeys, and birds. I'm getting the feeling that maybe it's ME who isn't normal...

   In other news, one of my friends died of an overdose. He smoked weed, but I didn't know he was into other harder stuff, as well. Apparently they didn't know he had died where he did, so he was left out in the sun for a couple of days in an empty apt. on the balcony, causing officials to search by dental records, due to his body being unrecognizable. Hopefully the guy's happy now, where ever he is...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 29, 2007, 02:15:02 pm
I can understand it... but it's pretty.. mehhh...

Back in highschool, I only really drank for the last two years, and man did I get sick of it.
First, I could no longer drink beer, so I switched to vodka, and eventually harder liquor as a means to get it over with.
After so many parties I got sick of being drunk, I never really let myself go and did something stupid I'd regret the next day, because I could never really shake my consciousness like everyone else seemed to be able.
I know it was just highschool and most of them were waiting for the opportunity to do some stupid crap, but I wasn't.
and every party was the same, same shitty music, same "ooh let's sit around a fire" "let's attempt a sport" "let's go get some chips" etc
so after a while I stopped drinking at parties and shortly after I stopped going entirely, I knew when I was drunk that it was really lame and boring, but I just assumed it was part of the excellent teenage experience and stuck it out, but when I was sober I couldn't stand it lol

My friends still come round every week and we sometimes drink, but I rarely will, I don't want to get drunk, so why put up with the taste?
stuff like marijuana I can understand much better though, I rarely smoke it, only with my friends, and what can I say?
it's more fun than being drunk, you don't feel a bit sick, no one else seems to lose their inhibitions and it doesn't taste crap.
I'd never pay for the stuff or smoke it alone for no reason, and I'd never do anything harder, as far as I'm concerned it's just a plant and a matter of time before it's "acceptable"
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 29, 2007, 02:20:12 pm
Quote
no one else seems to lose their inhibitions

Dude it's the number one reason a lot of dead-end morons in school ever got laid. You're just smoking with your buddies and there's no inhibitions there to lose. Try to go to a party where everyone's stoned... There's a whole batallion of girls that will have sex with you just so you will give them free weed. That's where the whole 'weed is cool' mythology starts, because it's more than just a social lubricant (like alcohol) it's a social shortcut. All these people who never amount to anything else than the weed-provider their whole life will be severily bummed out when the girls just go to the k-mart and buy their own hashish.

But guess what? They won't. Because once it's legal, habitual usage will go down.

Also, there's a lot of perfectly natural plants that will kill you dead in minutes if you eat them. Hashish might not be toxic (I'm not sure where the debate is on this one) but it kills brain-cells (slower than alcohol, but what does this tell you?) and it certainly has side-effects and a clear come-down for most people who take it. I've seen people get so depressed and paranoid after taking weed. You know what their solution is, right? Smoking more weed. Be careful.


I only drink Guinness (and Murphys when they don't have guinness) because it's A FULL NUTRITIOUS MEAL IN A GLASS and I never get drunk on it. It's just something I enjoy, taste-wise. Most beers and generally alcohol have awful taste.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 29, 2007, 02:22:26 pm
heheh a "social shortcut" I like that :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 29, 2007, 02:32:30 pm
I don't get drugs, either. Or alcohol. I mean, I'm somewhat familiar with the sensation of being somewhat drunk (you can get in that state of mind in other ways than actually being drunk), so I get the point of it, but I don't see how it can be worth all the downsides. All alcohol, except for beer which is nasty, is freaking expensive. Oh, and some cider, but people don't drink cider to get drunk... I mean, even I drink cider now and then, to food. Even if it's alcoholic, it's so slight it barely even counts.

But people who have to take a couple of hours off one day to go to the liquor store to figure out what to buy to get the most intoxicated in the shortest time, and end up buying alcohol for more money than I spend for one week of food and candy... How that that be worth it? Same with other types of drugs, really. Except the downsides are fewer with many of them. But anyway, I don't get how people can enjoy taking substances that alter their mind and make them temporarily freaking stupid. I like to feel intelligent. Oh, wait, maybe that's what it's about? Some people are already too stupid, so they do drugs to forget how stupid they are so they can feel smart!

Eh, maybe not. I'm actually pretty damn extreme. I don't do any kind of drugs, even non-mind-altering ones. Well, there is one thing, I have to take pills for my pollen allergy, but I can't really do much about that. Luckily I seem to need less and less for each year, though, so maybe it's going away or something. But I know many people who take a pill and a glass of water for each measly headache they get. What's up with that? I haven't taken pills for pain and ache and stuff like that since I was too young to even remember doing it. We're talking at least ten years. Never once have I had a headache or migraine so bad I haven't been able to ride it out on my own.

Maybe it's because of my mentally healthy lifestyle, and the rest of the world needs drugs because it's too busy stressing out. I dunno.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 29, 2007, 02:41:11 pm
you guys seriously don't like the tast of a nice cold lager?  wtf.  I just like a couple of beers in the evenings to relax, and if im at a party then just drink fuck loads.  I guess getting wasted for fun is a very bristish thing to do, we have the highest teen-alcohol usage in europe.

i dont think weed is a social shortcut, most of the girls i know are a bit against it.  It just breaks up the monotony between beer and spirits, aswell as gives you so many different feelings. 

takam. : its not a party if your buying chips and playing sports man  :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 29, 2007, 03:00:12 pm
Quote
Never once have I had a headache or migraine so bad I haven't been able to ride it out on my own.

You are very lucky.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on August 29, 2007, 03:26:02 pm
   I'm kind of on the same boat as Rox. I can't stand taking medicine. I always ride out a cold, or ride through any headache I get. I kinda' feel there is a dependency for medication if one keeps taking them. I don't want to be that way when I grow up. For the moment, I've found that I haven't gotten sick in about 3 years already, and headaches have been kept to a minimum (which is strange since my mothers side of the family gets them all the time, a very medicated people they are...). I must be doing something right...hopefully.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on August 29, 2007, 03:50:48 pm
I've never done drugs and don't intend to, and the same goes with beer/liquor. I have had the displeasure of accidentally drinking some of my uncle's liquor, and some beer, and it completely turned me off. Not to mention the smell... As for drugs, not my thing, I don't think it ever will be.
I do take medicine a lot, I have constant migraines and have been medicated for stomach problems, but I've never felt a dependency(though morphine in the hospital was great...). I've even been prescribed with some high-inducing drugs(with fatal and dependency risks) for tooth aches, and still never felt any sort of addiction to them.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on August 29, 2007, 04:06:22 pm
takam. : its not a party if your buying chips and playing sports man  :P
I never went to anything like a rave, but whats wrong with stopping to play some drunken rugby or volleyball?

My family has a history of migraines, all my brothers and dad gets them, but not my mother or sister.
I've only had 3 in my life, but my two eldest brothers get them pretty often, at least once a year.. and man it sucks.
last time I had one was about 3 years ago, friend dyed my hair, it burnt my entire scalp, and it stayed burning for the next couple of days.
triggered a migraine, so the next few days consisted of vomiting, cold baths, dark rooms and very little hearing, seeing and talking.

if we were a religious family, we'd probably consider it some sort of blessing, my brothers basically speak in "tongues" when they've got 'em
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: OzBlueShoes on August 29, 2007, 04:13:37 pm
http://www.posemaniacs.com/blog/ (http://www.posemaniacs.com/blog/)
Awesome site, every pose you can think of.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on August 29, 2007, 04:53:40 pm
Quote from: .TakaM
I never went to anything like a rave, but whats wrong with stopping to play some drunken rugby or volleyball?

My family has a history of migraines, all my brothers and dad gets them, but not my mother or sister.
I've only had 3 in my life, but my two eldest brothers get them pretty often, at least once a year.. and man it sucks.
last time I had one was about 3 years ago, friend dyed my hair, it burnt my entire scalp, and it stayed burning for the next couple of days.
triggered a migraine, so the next few days consisted of vomiting, cold baths, dark rooms and very little hearing, seeing and talking.

if we were a religious family, we'd probably consider it some sort of blessing, my brothers basically speak in "tongues" when they've got 'em

My doctor diagnosed my headaches as migraines, and I get these pretty much on a weekly basis. Though they're not as severe as that, I never throw-up, but I do feel like throwing up, and I get the usual, 'light and sound kills me' feeling, just not that extreme. Sadly because I have head and stomach problems, medicine for my stomach messes with my head, and medicine for migraines mess with my stomach. It's a bad loop.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: big brother on August 29, 2007, 05:46:05 pm
I only drink Guinness (and Murphys when they don't have guinness) because it's A FULL NUTRITIOUS MEAL IN A GLASS and I never get drunk on it. It's just something I enjoy, taste-wise.

Consuming alcohol in any form dehydrates your body, inhibits protein synthesis, lowers testosterone while increasing estrogen levels, reduces your body's ability to metabolize fat, and promotes catabolism. These effects aren't the results of a heavy binge, either. They can be measured considerably after the consumption of two drinks.

Drink it for fun or because you enjoy the taste, but don't pretend it's beneficial. Those empty calories are a sad replacement for a meal.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 29, 2007, 06:43:06 pm
Belated disclaimer: Helm does not actually think that drinks can substitute food.


Suddenly, I want a Dr Pepper... I must admit that I AM a sugar addict. Weakness is me. Cannot resist... Well, I can today, I've already had a bunch of chocolate. But I still miss the taste of my Dr Pepper... it's not just the sugar, it's the taste. When I'm in the mood for Dr Pepper, even a pint of Pepsi won't get me out of it. It's the taste that does it...

Actually, I'm in the mood for pizza, too. Damn, maybe I should eat something.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on August 29, 2007, 07:06:34 pm
   I used to be  a Dr. Pepper MONGER when I was younger. I grew out of it, though. It's funny, because now, I hardly ever drink cokes, or eat chocolate. I've developed a strange habit of eating carrots EVERYDAY, as well as banannas. Not for nutrition, mind you, but just cause I enjoy em'. I still thoroughly enjoy meaty foods, though(please don't let this be side tracked into a heated debate over vegitarians and carnivores...). Just not much of a sugar fan as I used to be.
    If anything, though, I friggin' miss my Mom's Mexican home cooking. Ooh, and pizza. Haven't had that in a while. Damn, my mouth is watering. Rox, you bastard. ...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on August 29, 2007, 07:25:19 pm
Drink it for fun or because you enjoy the taste, but don't pretend it's beneficial.

A bit of wine each day is actually healthy. And the estrogen thing is not for all sorts of alcohol I think, but deffo for beer.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 29, 2007, 07:45:31 pm
i know all the bad points about drinking and smoking and drugs... but tbh you only live once, might aswell enjoy it whilst your here.

God made grass, man made beer.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Skull on August 29, 2007, 07:52:08 pm
I find beer rather.. unenjoyable and lonesome, unless with company.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 29, 2007, 07:52:42 pm
I only drink Guinness (and Murphys when they don't have guinness) because it's A FULL NUTRITIOUS MEAL IN A GLASS and I never get drunk on it. It's just something I enjoy, taste-wise.

Consuming alcohol in any form dehydrates your body, inhibits protein synthesis, lowers testosterone while increasing estrogen levels, reduces your body's ability to metabolize fat, and promotes catabolism. These effects aren't the results of a heavy binge, either. They can be measured considerably after the consumption of two drinks.

Drink it for fun or because you enjoy the taste, but don't pretend it's beneficial. Those empty calories are a sad replacement for a meal.

Hehe yes, I'm not really serious about FULL NUTRITIOUS MEAL.

Quote
i know all the bad points about drinking and smoking and drugs... but tbh you only live once, might aswell enjoy it whilst your here.

God made grass, man made beer.

Enjoy your life, but keep in mind that if you do some things, you're doing them in place of other things you could be doing that you would enjoy more, possibly. Maintaining a lifestyle that allows for drug abuse will create problems for you in the long run. And I don't mean like, straight-ahead medical ones, you might just end up a deadbeat that smokes pot and plays videogames all day. If this is your idea of what you should do in your only live once life, I suggest you rethink it through. Aren't you like 17 to begin with?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: big brother on August 29, 2007, 08:31:47 pm
A bit of wine each day is actually healthy. And the estrogen thing is not for all sorts of alcohol I think, but deffo for beer.

Because ethanol (a cellular toxin) is present in any form of alcohol we consume, wine is just as guilty as beer is. Gynecomastria is a proven symptom of long-term drinking (aromatization of androgens to estrogens). Although it may take you years to develop bitch tits, the alcohol affects your testosterone levels immediately. In men, the body will try to replenish testosterone by releasing Luteinizing Hormone. This is ultimately ineffective, since the depletion occurs at the cellular level, not the glandular. However, the LH will make you horny. Now IF wine somehow did not affect your hormones, then drinking it won't make you horny. This sounds like an experiment we can try at home!   

The argument has been that wine (and beer) provides you with a dose of antioxidants. However, you can get these by a lot of other ways without the deleterious effects of alcohol. Not to sound like someone's mom, but fruits, veggies, fish...

Helm, I will pay more attention to the CAPS in the future. Missed the intentional hyperbole.

As far as weed goes, Penn & Teller had a good point: in the US, approximately 50,000 people die every year from alcohol poisoning; 500,000 from cigarettes. In the history of mankind, there is no record of anyone ever dying from marijuana (laced shit doesn't count and is a by-product of the quality control loss in a black market). Of course that doesn't mean it's good for you, just an indicator that we might be fighting the wrong thing.

Isn't caffeine the most commonly abused and addictive drug known to man?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 29, 2007, 09:01:21 pm
I don't think hashish kills people (nor does anyone sane I hope), I think it has symptoms which when applied to a lot of lifestyles, leads to their long-term degradation. I've known promising people who had this or that propensity towards easy living who eventually became weedeaters, that's all they did all day.

This is not an argument for or contra making it legal, it's an argument against its use. Cigarettes are legal but I don't think anyone should smoke either.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 29, 2007, 09:09:38 pm
Enjoy your life, but keep in mind that if you do some things, you're doing them in place of other things you could be doing that you would enjoy more, possibly. Maintaining a lifestyle that allows for drug abuse will create problems for you in the long run. And I don't mean like, straight-ahead medical ones, you might just end up a deadbeat that smokes pot and plays videogames all day. If this is your idea of what you should do in your only live once life, I suggest you rethink it through. Aren't you like 17 to begin with?

yeah im 17, an' loving it.  btw im not a hardcore drug user - just now and then.  some people think im a bit of an alcoholic but i could quit drinking if i wanted to.  i dont think life through, the whole point of life is to see how it goes, everything happens for a reason.  if i am meant to end up a crack-whore then i will but i sincerely hope life has something better planned out for me.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 29, 2007, 09:12:38 pm
Quote
if i am meant to end up a crack-whore then i will

W...what? I'll chalk it up to being 17, sorry.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 29, 2007, 10:03:53 pm
ive never actually tried crack, i was just saying we all have our destiny and theres nothing we can do to change it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 29, 2007, 10:37:07 pm
And I'm saying that's a completely empty statement. I don't believe in free will, but since the illusion of free-will is an all-encompassing one, to tell another person 'hey, that's what is written for me' is just another way of saying 'I didn't feel like doing this different'.

So keep that in mind. If you end up a crack whore, it's because you didn't feel like doing things different. If that rings the same to you as 'that's what I was ment to be' then great, carry on.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 29, 2007, 10:52:26 pm
but even if you consciously make the decision to do something differently, the act of you making the decision has already been written out for you.  so you may think you changed your life, when all along that was planned too.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 29, 2007, 10:55:18 pm
Obviously, but at least you're not pretending to have profound philosophical positions (which are not very profound as the freewill issue has been on debate since the beginning of civilization) by being a lazy bum.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on August 29, 2007, 10:55:50 pm
I never got this whole, I have a destiny and I can't change that, whatever happens is my destiny... because if that's true, then in the end your life was your destiny, and every decision you made contributed to your already 'chosen destiny', so really, your destiny was just how your life played out, including your choices?
That confusing statement just shows you how much I understand the whole destiny thing.

On other note, I decided to try to play Zelda II: Adventure of Link, with cheats... because I have gotten as far as Death mountain without them and that's where I started getting frustrated with it. Not a bad game when you eliminate the ridiculous difficulty level. And also, it seems I get sick whenever I play the game, I think it's from too many flashy colors.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 29, 2007, 11:57:22 pm
I think I've decided to believe in the whole destiny thing, on a large scale. But only because some things seem unexplainable without it. Like some people who end up in accident after accident, breaking every bone in their body but still surviving against all odds, time and time again causing medical experts to shrug and go "I dunno, must be a miracle", then end up dying by something really weak like... slipping in the shower. I HAVE to think "well, I guess it was supposed to be" when something like that happens.

However, that's it. Sometimes people seem like they're meant to die, or some seem like they're meant to be ridiculously lucky or wealthy. Only the destination, if anything, would be predetermined. And I don't think EVERYONE has a specified fate, either. Like I said, sometimes it just seems to happen. But usually it doesn't. The theory that everything you do is predetermined by some greater force is just... an excuse to not live, I think. When you run out of people to blame for how miserable you are, what's left to blame? Oh yeah, the universe itself. Hey, it's not my fault that I'm a worthless critter! The universe made me this way, I can't do anything about it! I never even wanted to be born!

Yeahh... doesn't it feel good to just rant about something for a while? It does.

Ohyeah, and no one's meant to end up a crack whore. Just considering the idea is really stupid. If you ask me, the "goal" of life is to make something of it. In a perfect world, everyone would be fighting toward a common goal, that ultimately makes life worth living. Everyone does it differently, some are revolutionary and rock the foundations of how things work, opening new paths. Some do politics and business, creating said foundations upon which we build our individual lives. Some save lives, help lives come into existance, prevent death. Some just make life a bit more fun, like artists, musicians, game designers and... um... clowns. To me, the least you can do is go with the flow and just ride along until you die. If nothing else, at least the people around you will have lead a more interesting life thanks to you. However, if you don't aim higher than to be a crack whore (or similar, just an example!), then you'd be making the world a WORSE place for everyone else. Don't do that. Get a haircut, tie your shoes and at least LIVE, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 30, 2007, 12:04:25 am
well if you were a crack whore, you would be providing a service satisfying people.  You would also be hlping the crack economy which helps people make a living and not stinge of the governemt and thus taxes.  so yeah they would make the world a better palce by you paying less tax and getting sucked off for a fair price...

i wanna do something with my life that people will remember me by, at least for a couple of generations or something...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on August 30, 2007, 02:56:37 am
I was thinking about something similar to the 'no free will' concept a week or so ago. It went something like:

What is it that ties one's mind to the concept of 'time'? How do we recognise that time exists, has passed, and will pass? I stipulate that memory of past events, and constantly updating knowledge in conjunction with memorising new events gives rise to the concept of time. But imagine if actually time did not exist, that the universe is locked in a single, static state of energy. What you are experiencing now is an entire memory of your life. You are just a memory, wired into a static web of energy in the fabric of whatever it is that exists outside of this experience we have which we identify as reality.

So, if our life, that is, our experience of existing, is in fact purely a very long memory playing out, then everything in our life has already 'happened'; all knowledge, all thought, all decisions, are in fact just memories in a sequence. Following this, it could be said that all experience of these things is preordained, and in fact merely an illusion of free will.

Not that I really believe that, I was just mulling it over. Even if it is the case (whatever you explanation is), illusion or not, decision -> action -> consequence. This is true irrelevant of whether or not you believe your decision was really 'yours'. No matter what, its inevitable that you WILL make a decision, and you CAN think about that decision. Therefore, thinking about a decision will lead to an action that you thought about, and thus a consequence within your consideration. Tossing your arms up in the air and saying "there's no point thinking about it because it's all written in that stars" just means that its written in the stars that you won't think about anything. You CAN think about it, regardless of free-will existing or not.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on August 30, 2007, 03:29:48 am
I think all this predetermined destiny crap is a load of bullisht. Time is woven from the many threads of our decisions. We can choose to set fire to the hill of ants out back, or we can choose not to. But whatever I choose, it was indeed a choice of my own, not some prefabricated timeline from before time to eternity afterwards set in stone. The threads of times not lived burn away, but the threads of now and beyond diverge into infinites, and maybe sometime a thousand years from now, the thread that we live will converge with a time-thread that leads to the same moment. Time will not notice that single stone overturned. But I digress. It is our pasts that shape us, not our futures that predict us.

However.

Perhaps when our lives flash before our eyes it occurs in real-time, with all sensations in tact from the moment they were perceived, and time perceived as a normal flow rather than an instant. In such a case, I may die one millisecond from now, and the now that I currently seem to be experiencing is merely an excerpt from the life I've already lived. This is the only case in which my actions might possibly be predetermined, but it still remains that I already made my actions of my own accord in the years before this period of time I call life which may or may not be an instant, which may or may not be milliseconds before my death.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on August 30, 2007, 03:50:31 am
I just don't see the point in trying to conclude that your life is pre-determined and that you can't do anything to change it. How can you ever know if it was 'pre-determined'? How can you say that you would have never made the opposite decision, and if you did, how would you know if that was actually your destiny and making the other decision was not?
After it's all said and done, destiny just seems to be a synonym for life, because all you're doing is describing your 'life' while tacking on the notion of it being written out, yet with no actual way of knowing it was.
I'd much prefer to think that I make my decisions and that if anything extraordinary happens, or something that makes me think, "why did it happen this way?", that it was a miracle, unexplainable, or that it was just how life is.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sharprm on August 30, 2007, 08:16:46 am
Its one of those things you can't prove or disprove, so you just pick one. The better view is that life is full of random things, things beyond you're control, and things you can affect. Believing everything is out of your control is a way to ignore your responcibilty to make good decisions. Its like that myth you hear sometimes on TV news in Australia, that "if you're rich, you'll be unhappy" - a lie to make people feel better about their shitty lives.

Interestingly, when I was overseas, the newspaper in China reported that, generally, the richer people are, the more satisfied people are with their lives. Its different cultures that result in (generally) migrant's children doing much more study and doing extremely very well in highschool and getting to do the courses for jobs with high salaries.

I wish that teachers in Western countries (that are mostly stupid in my experience) wouldn't tell everyone, "you're super, it doesn't matter who you're parents are, everyone can become the next albert einstein, rohl dahl" etc (without telling us that it takes alot of hard work/luck etc.) I think thats why Feron thinks he could smoke pot, take things easy and still be remembered for generations to come. Its not an attack or anything, I'm just trying to use an example of people having (unrealistically?) high expectations about what they can achieve.

I guess you could smoke alot of pot and get in the guiness book of records and be remembered that way. There would be alot of competition though.

My primary school teacher was so stupid. He said to us once, "we're all making history right now", so we should be happy. Like he'd just realised that the future turned into the past. Fuck. I tried saying theres a difference between what happened in the past and significant events that get into history books, but as usual, stupid hippy teachers don't listen.

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 30, 2007, 08:34:19 am
well if you were a crack whore, you would be providing a service satisfying people.  You would also be hlping the crack economy which helps people make a living and not stinge of the governemt and thus taxes.  so yeah they would make the world a better palce by you paying less tax and getting sucked off for a fair price...

i wanna do something with my life that people will remember me by, at least for a couple of generations or something...

Well, you could become a terrorist. That way you'd help out your fellow terrorists, dedicate your life to make the world a better place according to your beliefs and your leader, by destroying everything that doesn't agree with you.

Yeah, by being a crack whore (I like that expression!) you'd provide a service that goes against everything else we've built up in today's society. You'd also be messing up many other people's lives. You might end up a criminal, picking pockets, robbing people, destroying life for those around you EXCEPT for the lucky dude who makes a fortune getting people addicted on drugs, then selling them for higher and higher prices. The most important part of life is friends, or people who are close to you in general, the ones who are affected by your presence. If you're a crack whore, you may still have friends, but they'd all sit around wishing you hadn't gone that way, wishing you could stop being a criminal junkie with no free will and go back to being an actual friend. You'd pollute the lives of people who knew you. It would definitely not be a better place for them.

I, too, want to be remembered. Maybe not for several generations, but when I die I want to leave some kind of impression. If I get into the video games industry I could do that. Even if I was just one of many artists in a team and no one would see my name, I'd know people would enjoy something I'd made and remember it for years to come. I also try my best to help people who seem to need help. So far, that's pretty much only happened online, but damn is the Internet an angsty place or what? I think I've already prevented one or two suicide attempts. I feel pretty good about that.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 30, 2007, 12:03:01 pm
i love all this hypothetical talk of drugged up crimnials or terrorists.

hell if you want to believe your life isnt predetermined Xion, go for it.  Its just my beliefs and theres nothing you could do to prove an argument for or against it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 30, 2007, 12:20:42 pm
From one point and onward you're just saying things for the sake of it. You have no realistic concept of what a 'crack whore' is, it's just your cool example to talk about. You have probably, very little to no exposure to how absolutely freakin' terrible life can be, so from your vantage point 'whatever will come will come'. Sure, because the range of things to come in your mind is very limited. Life can go really south, and once that happens I'd really like you to come back to this forum and tell us that your dying and miserable, but you'll let that run its course because the destiny is written in the stars.

It's pretty rude to theoretically talk about eventuality in such a way that robs real human drama of its impact, like "yeah, crack whore, I'll be part of a system that makes people happy!" and it just paints you as inconsiderate and inexperienced in life. A 17 year old that smokes pot and gets drunk at parties.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on August 30, 2007, 01:14:01 pm
It's pretty rude to theoretically talk about eventuality in such a way that robs real human drama of its impact, like "yeah, crack whore, I'll be part of a system that makes people happy!" and it just paints you as inconsiderate and inexperienced in life. A 17 year old that smokes pot and gets drunk at parties.

"Oh noes! I sense some oncoming hostility, with a helping of passive aggressive behavior. Better lighten the mood with some ole time tap dancing, and some Charlie Chaplin-like antics (I think we need a wiggly mustache smiley...). Quick! Play me a quick jingle Tommy, ma' boy!"

Seriously, though, this whole pre-determined/determined destiny argument is an argument that no one is going to win. I feel it best that it should be dropped before black eyes, and purple nurples ensue. On a lighter note, I'm gettin' my internet connection at my new residence. That means no more web surfing while I'm work! "YYEEEAAAAAHHHHH, BOOOOYYYY!!!"
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: leroy on August 30, 2007, 01:15:29 pm
offtopic off of your offtopic: will this memory module http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator_new/PartsInfo.asp?ktcpartno=KVR400X72C3A/1G (http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator_new/PartsInfo.asp?ktcpartno=KVR400X72C3A/1G) work in this motherboard: http://www.pchardware.ro/Reviews/review.php?id=177 (http://www.pchardware.ro/Reviews/review.php?id=177)? thanks in advance
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 30, 2007, 02:47:48 pm
From one point and onward you're just saying things for the sake of it. You have no realistic concept of what a 'crack whore' is, it's just your cool example to talk about.
you're right that exactly what is was, AN EXAMPLE!

Quote
You have probably, very little to no exposure to how absolutely freakin' terrible life can be, so from your vantage point 'whatever will come will come'. Sure, because the range of things to come in your mind is very limited. Life can go really south, and once that happens I'd really like you to come back to this forum and tell us that your dying and miserable, but you'll let that run its course because the destiny is written in the stars.
You want me to be dying?  well thats a nice thought.  no i dont really have much "life experience" but yes i do believe wateva will come will come.  that just what i believe, and i don't see why you can't just accept that mine and you beliefs are different.

Quote
It's pretty rude to theoretically talk about eventuality in such a way that robs real human drama of its impact, like "yeah, crack whore, I'll be part of a system that makes people happy!" and it just paints you as inconsiderate and inexperienced in life. A 17 year old that smokes pot and gets drunk at parties.
Rude, wtf, this whole conversation was hypothetical.  i havent robbed anyone of anything.  Whats wrong with talking theoretically, theory is what has driven the progession of science and therefore mankind.  Yeah you can generalise me as a teenager who does that shit, but to be honest you don't really the other half me, the interlectual half of me, the half that has dreams of getting a PhD in maths.

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 30, 2007, 02:50:49 pm
From one point and onward you're just saying things for the sake of it. You have no realistic concept of what a 'crack whore' is, it's just your cool example to talk about.
you're right that exactly what is was, AN EXAMPLE![/quote]

I think it was an inconsiderate example.

[/quote]You want me to be dying?[/quote]

No.

Quote
well thats a nice thought.  no i dont really have much "life experience" but yes i do believe wateva will come will come.  that just what i believe, and i don't see why you can't just accept that mine and you beliefs are different.

Alright. Wateva will come will come.

[/quote]Rude, wtf, this whole conversation was hypothetical.  i havent robbed anyone of anything.  Whats wrong with talking theoretically, theory is what has driven the progession of science and therefore mankind.  Yeah you can generalise me as a teenager who does that shit, but to be honest you don't really the other half me, the interlectual half of me, the half that has dreams of getting a PhD in maths.[/quote]

You should keep in mind that the side of you that has dreams above 'wateva will come will come' should be more careful with substance abuse.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Doppleganger on August 30, 2007, 03:41:06 pm
On a note related to drug use:

Sometime earlier this week, for the second time in my life, a derivative of opiates has laid to rest a friend. Fortunately this friend was more of a rarely seen acquaintance than a friend. The first instance, however, was a very close friend. This death toll doesn't count the numerous people I've known who have, more or less, rendered their lives useless because of their addiction to opiates. We are of course talking about predominantly heroin and oxycontin here.

There is a lot of uninformed talk about drugs going on here so I thought I would bring to light my own thoughts on it. As a person who has both experienced and witnessed the effects drugs can and can't have on an individual.

All drugs are inherently bad, just as anything that reprograms your body to act in an unnatural way would be bad. That's not to say they can't have a positive effect on a person. It all depends on what is being used, how it's being used, and how often it's being used.

Marijuana, for example, is one of the most harmless and potentially beneficial drugs. I happen to know a person, who is bi-polar and smokes to maintain a balance within themself. I was/am very close to this person and have seen them try counseling, prescripted medication, and many other methods to keep a level head and using marijuana as treatment proved to be far superior to the afore-mentioned. This person is extremely is insightful and knowledgeable of themself and could learn nothing from counseling that they didn't already know. Prescription medication just robbed them of all personality and turned them into a zombie. Interestingly enough, there are those who believe that smoking marijuana will turn you into a couch dwelling, video game playing, junkie. I believe that to be a serious misconception derived from what you were taught to believe. That's not to say people like that don't exist but, it might have more to do with their own personality and wants/needs than it does with marijuana.

Ecstasy, acid, and mushrooms fall into a more volatile category, although, they are not without their merits. These drugs have been portrayed in an extremely negative light, one of which I tend to disagree on. I do, however, believe that habitual or wreckless use of these substances is indeed a very bad thing. For those who think that ecstasy will turn you into some sex-craved fiend, or those who think that hallucinogens will have you fending off purple dinosaurs with a kitchen knife; let me tell you that is very far from the truth. As usual, there are exceptions but, it's those who wrecklessly or ignorantly do drugs for all the wrong reasons. To get to my point; these drugs have the ability to bring somebody to a different level of consciousness or perception and good things can come of it. I have seen ecstasy completely erase 16 years of self-esteem issues from a person in one night. Quite literally, this person was a brand new individual the next day and still to this day many years later. I've come to similar realizations and gained a broader, more intellectual view of the world from hallucinogens. I have also seen people become incredibly dependent on ecstasy, assumedly, for the purpose of being able to interact socially. A dependence on hallucinogens is much rarer.

Then there are those drugs which are just downright awful. Meth, cocaine, heroin, crack, all fall into this category. I've seen nothing come from these drugs besides death and death sentences. The idea that a party with marijuana is full of "easy" girls who will do anything for a smoke most likely refers to drugs such as these and not marijuana. These drugs are all highly addictive and depreciate the body both physically and mentally at a much higher rate than any of the other drugs out there. There's not much to expand on here, it's just the way it is.

I've never been fond of peoples ignorance to drugs so I thought I would bring to light what I've seen in the past decade of my life. I no longer choose to do drugs for recreational purposes, short of smoking marijuana, because I've gotten all that I can out of them. I wasn't always intelligent about using drugs and can look back at my life when I used them in a wreckless manner and can see why they are labeled as such bad things. Even if I could, I would never take those experiences back because I am a better person for them.

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on August 30, 2007, 06:05:56 pm
I knew a guy (Around 40) who had been smoking pot quite regularly since he was 13, and um... He acted like a thirteen year old.
Seriously. He'd laugh when he farted and most of what he did all day was play videogames. Or just stare at a wall with his jaw hanging down for an hour.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on August 30, 2007, 06:51:04 pm
The guy sounds like he's mentally challenged, not so much the pot effecting him. And if so....ouch.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: big brother on August 30, 2007, 07:41:51 pm
I don't understand how "all drugs are inherently bad". That's like saying money is evil because it causes a lot of problems. Not all drugs are used for recreation, and sometimes one can  save a life. Morphine, oxycontin, percocet, aderall, benzedrine, seconal, THC, etc. can alter perception or behavior, but that doesn't make them "bad" by nature. The intent means the difference between proper use and abuse.

Like most psychologically addicting things, weed can become a crutch. Some of my friends who smoke became potheads, and others not. I've also seen friends (who never touched the stuff) drop out of school or lose a job because they spent all their time playing Counterstrike or WoW. To me it seems more of matter of discipline and moderation than the actual pastime in question. Of course, the same can't be said for physically addictive substances (caffeine, heroin, etc).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zach on August 30, 2007, 08:45:59 pm
THANKS BIG BROTHER, YOU'RE AN AWSOME PERSON!

I myself am a pothead... it has been a crutch just as much as it has been inspiring.
like BB said, it's just a matter of will power to not smoke every day and all day.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 30, 2007, 08:59:47 pm
Quote
Interestingly enough, there are those who believe that smoking marijuana will turn you into a couch dwelling, video game playing, junkie. I believe that to be a serious misconception derived from what you were taught to believe. That's not to say people like that don't exist but, it might have more to do with their own personality and wants/needs than it does with marijuana.

Having instant happyness just a joint away is a power I wouldn't even trust myself with. You don't become a couch dwelling junkie because THE DEVIL'S WEED made you do it, but because you might be a weak person with a highly dangerous shortcut to happiness.

In a similar manner, if we had a 'delete my life now' button on our desks with gave us a quick painless way out towards oblivion, a lot of people when they hit lows and depressions would be pressing like hell. That suicide is a more gruesome action than it is an impulse has saved many lives by people on the edge. This doesn't mean that that because they didn't have the button their life was better, but it means that the means were not readily available for an action in the midst of passion saved their life right there.

Similarly, a lot of people can't cope with their life and the first thing their hands do when they hit a bad situation is roll up a joint. This is a bad thing is all I'm saying. One should distance himself from artifical, easy means to happiness and instead focus on building a life that is deeply fulfilling.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: OzBlueShoes on August 30, 2007, 09:25:27 pm
Helm makes a great point.

I don't care if my friends do it, or people I know do it, but it's just not for me.

I figure if I never drink or smoke weed, yeah, I'll never be high or drunk, but I'll never have a problem with it either.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: am_pm on August 30, 2007, 09:35:20 pm
Have you ever smoked weed Helm?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 30, 2007, 09:44:58 pm
I've done a lot of things.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 30, 2007, 09:51:19 pm
Have you ever smoked weed Helm?

Quote from: Helm
I've done a lot of things.

there's a politicians answer if ever i've seen one :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: big brother on August 30, 2007, 09:52:45 pm
Having instant happyness just a joint away is a power I wouldn't even trust myself with. You don't become a couch dwelling junkie because THE DEVIL'S WEED made you do it, but because you might be a weak person with a highly dangerous shortcut to happiness.

This is a good observation, but I wouldn't call it "instant happiness". You've probably been a "happy drunk" before, but that doesn't mean a few pints of Guinness become a shortcut to instantly make you happy (perhaps a bad example). More than anything, it's escapism. Some people become couch-dwelling potsmokers while others bury themselves in science fiction novels, roleplaying, or video games. You can let almost anything take over your life.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 30, 2007, 09:56:05 pm
Feron, I'll indulge people with my life's story when they explain why they want to know more thorougly than with a single disembodied question.

Big Brother, yes a lot of things can take up one's life, and there are 'addictive personalities' I guess but usually if your life is taken over by something that has an extreme effect on your biochemistry, you're screwed in ways that d&d will not screw you. You can be a computer came recluse for example, and eventually move away from it or whatnot. Being a dead-end dopesmoker from my life's experience is pretty much the rest of your life.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on August 30, 2007, 10:11:15 pm
Feron, I'll indulge people with my life's story when they explain why they want to know more thorougly than with a single disembodied question.
i was only joking, i couldn't care less about you life story, as long as you provide my eyes with some tasty artworks now and then..

Big Brother, yes a lot of things can take up one's life, and there are 'addictive personalities' I guess but usually if your life is taken over by something that has an extreme effect on your biochemistry, you're screwed in ways that d&d will not screw you. You can be a computer came recluse for example, and eventually move away from it or whatnot. Being a dead-end dopesmoker from my life's experience is pretty much the rest of your life.
Hmmm, cannabis isnt an addictive drug though.  i would have said WoW could be more addictive than weed.  I don't see how you can segregate drugs from activites that give the same feelings for other individuals..  Yeah you get dead end dopesmokers but im pretty sure you get deadend gamers or guys who watch porn or other bums who do equally pointless things....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: am_pm on August 30, 2007, 10:12:27 pm
Helm, it's just that you speak so condescendingly towards smoking pot that it makes me wonder if you have ever even experienced it yourself.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on August 30, 2007, 10:19:41 pm
Yes I have. What does this tell you?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: am_pm on August 30, 2007, 10:23:25 pm
That you know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 30, 2007, 11:34:16 pm
To be completely honest, it's not a requirement that you experience something for yourself to be able to judge it. Some things are just obvious. The fact that drugs and alcohol are primarily bad is obvious to me, based on what I've seen and heard from people all around the world. One of my close friends and former classmates has a brief history with some kind of drug, I know. She's a raver. It's inevitable that someone offers you one of them mitsubishi pills or whatever. She tried, and regretted it soon after. Apparently, the trip itself is not worth the knowledge that you're messing up your own brain and potentially subjecting yourself to the risk of becoming addicted to something you don't want to and can't afford to use regularly. How about that? A long-time teenage raver who tried drugs at recommendation from her raver friends and decided it's more fun without them. Raves, especially, I guess, because the experience in itself can be extremely trippy even without drugs.


Like Space Giraffe on the 360. Holy damn, that game has brainwashed me. Everyone hates it at first, unless they've been closely in touch with the developer diaries and stuff. But within a couple of hours, to a couple of days, people just flip around and go "best game ever". And I almost agree. I agree it's the best thing of its kind. It's the ONLY thing of its kind. If you like to feel like an alien substance is taking over your brain and destroying it from inside - try Space Giraffe! Once you get the hang of it, you start LIVING in this crazy acid world, and you'll feel really out of place when you finally stop playing and go back to real life. Honestly, I bought it the second I finished playing the trial version. I don't even know WHY I bought it. It took me two days to figure out why I bought it, and now I'm glad I did. I just wish I had more time to spend on it, and less flatmates to freak out if I were to turn up the volume...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on August 31, 2007, 04:34:41 pm
It can't be the only game of its kind, seeing as the jeff minter has already made llamatron! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llamatron) :D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on August 31, 2007, 07:04:22 pm
... what's your point?

I can honestly say that I have never seen anything like Space Giraffe. In the most simplest sense, it's a Tempest clone turned on its head. But the way Jeff treats every single level makes it incredibly different. Some levels behave differently than others for no apparent reason. Some levels may have bullets that go ultra-fast, for just that one level. Just to force you to re-learn what the game is about over and over again. I've seen videos of one particular level that.. honestly, it doesn't seem like you can see anything at all. Either you start to learn to pick up patterns in the background, or you have to rely entirely on sound and feel to know what's going on.

Learning is probably the most important part of it. No one likes it at the first go unless they're already a Llamasoft fan, because you CAN'T figure out what the hell is going on. Once you understand that the game is about learning what to do, then you can start using that knowledge to either play safe and stay alive, or go for mad scores. Until a new trippy level shows up that seems like it's just trying to make your brain catch on fire. Then you have to learn what to do all over again.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sharprm on September 01, 2007, 08:22:44 am
You know how some people do collaborations together, is there a paint program for the internet that lets two people work on the same piece at the same time?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 01, 2007, 09:33:06 am
years ago I used to use:
http://groupboard.com/
you can probably set up a private board where random people can't come in and give everything a penis

and I'm trying to record some footage of a snes game, screen capture programs like camtasia etc won't pick up the sound for some reason, there is a built in recorder, but the audio is very unsynchronized.
I'm thinking I could maybe find a program dedicated entirely to recording audio then put the video together with the audio, any suggestions?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Stwelin on September 01, 2007, 12:40:05 pm
If you're using Windows, you can use sound recorder to record the sound, you just have to change the input method from a microphone to your soundcard.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 01, 2007, 04:02:52 pm
stwel's method definitely worked for me back with windows 3.1 (ah, the good old days when almost nothing was automated and therefor everything actually worked), but i don't know about more modern systems.  Worth a shot though.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Lawrence on September 01, 2007, 04:38:53 pm
You'll only be able to record 1 minute if you use Windows Sound Recorder. Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) is much better.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 01, 2007, 04:43:12 pm
I remember having trouble getting audacity to record away from a microphone though?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on September 01, 2007, 09:26:47 pm
... what's your point?

Promoting llamatron, one of the most mindfuckiest game of the good old generation :)

I think space giraffe is a lot more fucked up, but well, I wasn't trying to condradict your point but rather elaborate on it.

Like this: It is true that you have never experienced anything like this, and this is good

and there's where I come in like

"YEAH AND THE GOOD THING IS THAT LLAMASOFT HAS MADE MORE GOOD STUFF LIKE THIS!!!11 :D"

because llamatron is available for free download and stuff and it's a piece of my childhood that I wanna promote.

My point being a little of all that. :]
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on September 01, 2007, 10:11:55 pm
Ah, I see.

It sounded kinda like "it's not different, this thing is equally different even though it's a different thing!" which made no sense at all to me. I guess I'll check it out, then, seeing as how I've played a total of three of his crazy games now anyway. I played one of the C64 games when I was younger, then Gridrunner++ closely followed by Space Giraffe.

In fact, I'm drawing something in Yak's honor. Hope I can bother to finish it...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Lawrence on September 02, 2007, 10:15:43 pm
I remember having trouble getting audacity to record away from a microphone though?

On the mixer tool bar there's a drop down box where you can select the input as being: Microphone, Line In, CD Audio, Video, Aux or Stereo Mix. The stereo mix option would be the one TakaM would want.

And also, is it just me who gets a little bit annoyed when people end non-question sentences with question marks? It seems like a written manifestation of the annoying rising intonation some people constantly do (no offence). :n:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 03, 2007, 04:22:57 am
It emphasis' on the fact that it is more along the lines of a question, than a statement. He's looking for an answer, not telling you one.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 03, 2007, 06:16:33 am
Thanks guys, only problem is I edited the audio and manually put it back into synch.. it's still not perfect, but I can't be bothered recording it all again :P

In other news, the other day I went to the doctor, I've been getting this pain in my legs after walking for about 20 minutes, I've had it for the last year or so, but it's progressively gotten worse and I can't really just ignore it.
I figured my blood wasn't circulating that well, because my legs can go to sleep pretty easily, and since it feels like my legs are swelling up I figured the blood was just building up pressure.

Well, my doc thinks I've got "Chronic Compartment Syndrome" where my muscles in my calves aren't separated properly and if this is the case I'll probably have to get surgery, had to take a blood test also..
So that sucks :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: MoD on September 03, 2007, 01:38:04 pm
I hate blood tests. I'm always afraid I'll bend my arm while they're taking the blood and break the needle off in my arm. That's like my second or third worst fear.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 03, 2007, 06:54:18 pm
I've had to get so much blood work done... They had to keep track of levels of stuff in my blood so I had to go weekly to get work done(+ whenever I had an actual appointment with other reasons). My arms were so sore :(
Best part about surgery? Morphine!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on September 03, 2007, 10:48:01 pm
never had surgery or blood taken...

i feel kinda lucky now....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jericho on September 03, 2007, 11:17:08 pm
feron you've never had any blood work done? o_0;. lucky bastard. I havnt let them take any from me in years. It makes me want to puke.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Xion on September 03, 2007, 11:50:25 pm
Feron: High-five for untouched blood!

I still kick and scream when getting shots, though, so it's kinda pitiful...and dangerous. (Read: 17 yr old fit young male kicking nurses, takes 3+mom to restrain.) Who knows what I'm capable of when blood is added to the mix >:D




...I'm so pitiful.  :(
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jericho on September 04, 2007, 12:08:45 am
Feron: High-five for untouched blood!

I still kick and scream when getting shots, though, so it's kinda pitiful...and dangerous. (Read: 17 yr old fit young male kicking nurses, takes 3+mom to restrain.) Who knows what I'm capable of when blood is added to the mix >:D




...I'm so pitiful.  :(

it's ok, i'm 21 and i won't let anyone come near me with a needle unless it's intent is to pierce rather than take something out or put something in xD
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: OzBlueShoes on September 04, 2007, 12:38:07 am
Don't you hate it when you play a game where the main character is stuck perfectly in the center, and then world just moves around them... it kills my eyes.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 04, 2007, 12:43:15 am
I got stuck with the wrong needle and my arm turned blue, the intern was getting bitched out in the next room while a nurse made sure i wasn't going to suffer any damage to my arm.  lol....i hate bloodwork.

and yeah the ? was there because I was wondering what your experience was, whether it matched my own, and whether you still recommended audacity for such a task.  A simple punctuation mark is far easier than writing out a number of questions based on information already provided :P.


Oz - yeah, i prefer to have a camera that floats around the character so that he moves around a bit rather than staying with him.  Feel more organic and has better flow, plus it exaggerates motion more when the camera "can't keep pace."  Of course, there are games that suck at this detached motion and have even more problems, mostly with not showing you enemies or worse, not letting you see anything (tenchu!)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on September 04, 2007, 10:49:20 am
feron you've never had any blood work done?

nope, i've been to hospital twice since i was born (thats 17 years), once for torn ankle ligaments and once for stiches when i gashed open my knee  :blind:

never had any blood removed from my body, except in fights and sport and various other accidents..
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on September 04, 2007, 11:36:17 am
Come on guys, needles are harmless.
When I had my sinus-operation in April I had to give a bloodtest and they gave me anti-thrombosis jabs in my leg for like 4 days after the operation because I was in bed a lot and did not move much. Also I had a canula in my left hand so I could get antibiotics without being jabbed all the time. Wheee, fun times.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 04, 2007, 12:19:11 pm
I always had a paranoia with IV's that I was gonna do something wrong and rip it out of my arm.
That always makes me cringe when they do it in the movies.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 04, 2007, 12:58:22 pm
oh yeah, I don't mind needles, every time I get jabbed it sorta surprises me that there's practically zero pain.
a few years ago I had a liver virus and had to take blood tests every few days for a couple weeks, the hassle of having to go to the clinic every few days was more annoying than than the needles, I never got used for some kid learning where the vein is, infact they never missed the vein.

only thing that sucked was my arms started to feel pretty dead for quite a while after each test
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on September 04, 2007, 04:38:29 pm
Wow. I'm in the middle of watching Stargate SG-1 reruns and eating dinner.

Quote from: Jack O'Neill
I hope you like Guinness, sir. It's a perfect substitute for... food.

Well done TV and Helm.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Fingerfoods on September 04, 2007, 06:45:49 pm
Wow. I'm in the middle of watching Stargate SG-1 reruns and eating dinner.

Eeeh, I'm not a big Stargate fan myself. I'm more of a Firefly fan. And I only saw two episodes. :P

Soooo...who else is hyped about The Golden Compass? :D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Lawrence on September 05, 2007, 12:21:38 am
I can't get grafx2 to run at 1024x768. I keep getting this:
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/drain-body-confirmed/gfxerror.gif)
Does anyone know a solution?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Mr.Modem on September 05, 2007, 02:35:34 pm
I can't get grafx2 to run at 1024x768. I keep getting this:
Does anyone know a solution?

Solution: Pro Motion? :P

But seriously, are you running the dos version of Grafx2? If so, why not try run the windows version instead?
You could also try running the Dos version using Dosbox
http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/ (http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Frychiko on September 05, 2007, 03:14:18 pm
Come on guys, needles are harmless.
When I had my sinus-operation in April I had to give a bloodtest and they gave me anti-thrombosis jabs in my leg for like 4 days after the operation because I was in bed a lot and did not move much. Also I had a canula in my left hand so I could get antibiotics without being jabbed all the time. Wheee, fun times.

Speaking of needles, I had a needle jabbed right up my nose a few years ago and boy was it a stinger!

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 05, 2007, 07:53:10 pm
from http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=4900.msg59634#msg59634

bengoshia:

Quote
Helm, honestly, what do you want from me?

To be careful, considerate and contained.

Quote
Like I've said, you mods freak out whenever theres even a hint of ripping, I'm surprised you didn't jump right on this topic about that, to be quite honest(Woo, internet, serious business).

The only part I could tell was a direct lift was the right arm. And given that this person said it was a direct inspiration (from a sprite in a thread sitting right there, with the sprite creator saying he doesn't mind, right there), he did not break any rules. Now, I don't believe such a method leads to learning art (and Adarias told the dude much the same if I remember correctly) but that's not an issue of ripping things.

You kept asserting that this is a rip where the situation was clear as day. This is why you were warned to drop it.

Quote
so really, why am I the one getting bagged on for this?

Because you insisted. You're not a moderator, let the moderators do their jobs. Try to help people, not accuse them. When people accuse someone of ripping rightly, there's no fuss because they are right. You have to be right. If you're wrong you apologize and try to help.

Quote
Like with Jad, your comment was completely unnecessary and your own team of mods have been harsher with less evidence(Nothing compared to my so-called "cries").

The mods are right in their calls a lot of the time. Many years, sharp eyes.

Quote
Mods have been wrong aswell, for instance, remember the KOF rip no one noticed until the guy posted it a second time and someone finally noticed, don't even think it was a mod

You mean not noticing something is the same as a bad call? It's not. We can't be everywhere. If someone is dead-certain of a clear rip they should let it be known. They shouldn't rush to anything as accusing people of things hurts feelings.

Quote
(You also deleted our comments, feeling like you had to have the final say with your corny post, forgot what it was, but it was pretty corny, thats another story though, if you wanna talk about that, we'll do so in the OT board).

I don't care what you think is corny, and I delete off-topic comments all the time.

Listen, I am not your father so I won't lecture you, but you seem to be overdramatizing things. Take it easy.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Jad on September 05, 2007, 08:16:06 pm
I'm a hypocrite for the ruining-the-mood-post, but then I really wanted to say it out loud. Sorry.

I WAS thinking of just reporting your post, but then I thought it would be kind of sneaky. Otherwise, when I think I'm spotting rips or something like it, I simply report the post. I just wanted to make clear that I'd like to see a little more goodwill.

It wasn't so much an accusation directed towards you as it was just me expressing my feelings.

Sorry for any bad feelings though.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 05, 2007, 08:24:07 pm
Come on guys, needles are harmless.
When I had my sinus-operation in April I had to give a bloodtest and they gave me anti-thrombosis jabs in my leg for like 4 days after the operation because I was in bed a lot and did not move much. Also I had a canula in my left hand so I could get antibiotics without being jabbed all the time. Wheee, fun times.

Speaking of needles, I had a needle jabbed right up my nose a few years ago and boy was it a stinger!


oh god, the worst place I've ever been jabbed was just my gums at the dentist, and that's pretty standard.. it felt like the needle went completely through my gums, hard to tell though since they were already pretty numb..

I finally finished twilight princess last night.. (finally as in I "finally" got around to actually playing the game)

I feel like I left the theatre after a bad movie, it seems alright when you're watching with your friends, but when you leave you can't stop talking about how bad it was and you want your money back.
I wouldn't say it was that bad, but it really wasn't impressive.. the only stuff I liked was some of the character designs, and lake hylia..
the whole game feels like fan service to me, just a empty copy of Ocarina of Time (which was a copy of aLTTP, but atleast 3D made it feel new)
everything just feels out of balance because it feels like they threw in so much just to please fans, but they ended up polishing nothing, even the boomerang is pretty much worthless after the first dungeon, then stuff like the spinner could have been really awesome if it was better utilized...
playing TP, all I can see is potential, which is a real shame..

edit-
interesting:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/102434.html
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 05, 2007, 11:27:39 pm
Helm: Okay, apologized, etc.
Jad: Internet = srsly serious business, MUST REPORT... FOR SOMEONE SPEAKING THEIR MIND.... OVER THE INTERNET. Kind of makes me question on how you think about idk my bff jill and the freedom of speech, but whatever. I'm cool with you if you're cool with me.

oh god, the worst place I've ever been jabbed was just my gums at the dentist, and that's pretty standard.. it felt like the needle went completely through my gums, hard to tell though since they were already pretty numb..
Hah, I just had that today, didn't feel a thing, you're too paranoid about needles man.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 05, 2007, 11:37:40 pm
I went to the dentist a lot. My teeth have no enamel so I get a lot of cavities and such, I had to go like once a week for 2 months before. Most painful thing was apparently a couple of my teeth had crossed nerves, so while they thought they numbed the nerves on the tooth they were going to drill, they actually numbed another tooth. So he started drilling, ow. He just thought it hadn't kicked in, so he dosed the tooth some more, waited and tried again. Ow again, repeat another time. He finally concluded that the nerves were 'wired wrong' and concluded I had to go through it without anesthetics.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Lawrence on September 05, 2007, 11:52:17 pm
Didn't he suggest a general anesthetic?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 06, 2007, 12:23:22 am
oh god, the worst place I've ever been jabbed was just my gums at the dentist, and that's pretty standard.. it felt like the needle went completely through my gums, hard to tell though since they were already pretty numb..
Hah, I just had that today, didn't feel a thing, you're too paranoid about needles man.
I'm not really paranoid, I've probably been jabbed in the gums a dozen times, but that one time, it really felt like it went through to the inside of my mouth- up against my tongue ???


how bout sum character desing?
(http://www.ffta2.com/dl/lusso_l.jpg)
chains.. elbow shields, pizza slice sword... ...  :crazy:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 06, 2007, 12:26:41 am
Quote from: Lawrence
Didn't he suggest a general anesthetic?
Couldn't, he already drugged me up enough, was scared of over-dosing.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 06, 2007, 12:56:15 am
how bout sum character desing?
(http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/1205/characterdesignru1.png)
chains.. elbow shields, pizza slice sword... ...  :crazy:
I love motivational posters!
(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5821/brolymotivxy9.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 06, 2007, 02:01:48 am
FFTA really does just go to show that just because it's from well-respected artists doesn't means its good :(

Seriously, if rules of design are meant to be broken, than this is the most appropriate design ever.  otherwise it's garbage >.<

I don't think it's too out-of-line to say "should this be here?"  Posting in an area with certain assumptions are made about the origins of a piece should be moderated to ensure that those assumptions are true - there are other places to post ripped garbage.

the thing about sab's pieces is that it was totally chill, he mentioned my work in the first post, and he had my implied (and by now, expressed) permission to go at it.  no need for a fuss?  there's a little bit of inquisitorial "explain yourself immediately!" that could possibly be avoided by just asking around first.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 06, 2007, 03:40:03 am
I enjoy that character design parody. Enough with the cool accessories already. What would the character wear in their world that makes sense according to what they need and what they do. Enough fashion show.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 06, 2007, 03:50:18 am
The common trend here and in many other message boards seems to be to bash the current mainstream Japanese-origin artists.  This has nothing to do with their personal style, so much as their origin.  What I've observed, and I'll use Square as an example is a constant stream of extremely negative criticism centered towards the in-house artwork, regardless of the artist.  For every positive remark, there's boatloads of negative.  And the negative comments don't seem particularly well grounded.  I remember someone from this board critiquing Sephiroth's design.  This person (I can't remember their name, sorry) gave some clear and well-thought criticisms, such as Sephiroth having way too high of a waist, and his rediculously large sword creating a sort of off-balance with regards to his center of weight and gravity.  However, simply saying a piece of artwork sucks because there are too many accessories doesn't tell me much.  I don't think the FFTA2 is particularly bad.  It's centered towards a younger audience, and thus, is fun, playful and imaginative (as is expressed by the assortment of accessories, the child-like herioc poses, and the vibrant color choices).  Anyway, I don't want to get too deep into this as I don't have time at the moment, but I'm getting pretty tired of all this non-stop bashing of Japanese-origin artists.  Western artists seem to get all the praise, for whatever reason, and in much the same blinded manner.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 06, 2007, 04:03:35 am
helm - parody nothing, that's official art for the next game.

If you can't see the design flaws immediately, i suggest you read a few more books or ask a fashion student.  I'm not going to give an in-depth critique of something posted in general discourse by an artist I will never speak to, but watch it with your "you all are unfounded" nonsense.

a few things off the top of my head

the same massive legs characteristic of nearly all their work
vague color cohesion - the green doesn't draw from the blue, nor the red from the yellow, and the repetition is sparse and unbalanced.  Red hat wtf?  where is THAT justified?  Also, a green clover pin does not balance a massive green mess of fabric.
little cohesion of forms - "circle" doesn't cut it as a motif, and the rest of things don't even try to agree.  there's frayed with clean cut, tight with loose, open with hemmed, and none of them in ways that complement each other.  If you are going to include dichotomies within a character they have to support each other, not conflict!*  Disjointedness leads to disaster!
massive imbalance of accessories creates visual weight and awkwardness.  there's playfully overbalanced and then there's painfully overbalanced, and this one clearly reaches into painful.



* except in a small number of cases where conflict defines the character, HOWEVER all character designs are much better when they promote the idea of a single identity tormented or otherwise.  Characters with visual conflicts will always suffer from having multiple identities.




edit - I'm also confused as to where you ever got the idea of race as a leading factor.  There is a lot of garbage in western art that simply isn't popular.  The fact that bad anime is constantly over-hyped is the only reason it has a tendency to be taken down a peg.  Anyone who blindly praises western artists is in for it too, and always has been.  If such were the topic of conversation, we could start some very big flame sessions of popular artists, as well as some very wide debates over others.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 06, 2007, 07:37:42 am
Who the hell wears that much? Honestly, it just feels all cluttered and shit(More than anime usually is). Back in the old days not every character design was covered with all this bull, I mean, honestly, look at Cloud's design:
(http://playstation3.files.wordpress.com/2005/12/cloud.jpg)
Simple, yet, we know him, when we see him we know thats Cloud(Or take any other character from the game), characters looked different and god dammit man, you could tell one from another. Christ man, Cloud had a huge sword, but this new dork's sword is humongous, hell, he has two swords, a spell book and he looks totally unfit to even carry this shit and he's wearing high heels for christ's sake. Cloud probably carried a small bag of materia with some potions and ethers aswell and then his giant sword, that actually looked possible to carry but this kid, what the hell? With this kid, you gotta imagine he'll be running around and fighting hell loads(He's like, what? 11?), these characters seem to get younger and younger and tend to carry more shit. Enix is gay, stop playing the same games, Final Fantasy is dead, go play like, Half-life 2 or Bioshock, FPS games with stories ftw. I have no clue, gonna go somewhere else now.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on September 06, 2007, 08:14:24 am
Bengoshia: What's the point in that last sentence? Seriously
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Froli on September 06, 2007, 10:38:44 am
bengoshia, you seem to be stepping on a lot of shoes lately. When you see your name and complaints go hand in hand in some threads, that's a bad sign.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 06, 2007, 01:04:06 pm
I think my last sentence was uh, to tell you guys that Square isn't what it used to be, really, it isn't, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone.
At the time I was tired while writing it, seriously who cares? They're words, calm down, while yeah it was pointless, was tired, etc. It's unbelievable on how offended you guys get here sometimes, we're not five year olds here, we can handle it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Froli on September 06, 2007, 01:51:48 pm
No. They reacted like that because, the "way" you state your words (even in your critics) is as if they are 100% facts and not as a personal opinion/observation.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on September 06, 2007, 02:29:21 pm
Hehe, it's kind of funny. Can't imagine him running... or using the sword, which btw looks a lot like the one found in the hands of the hero in Threads of Fate. A really funky game. The "stuff" doesn't really bother me since he and the other characters are otherwise cheerful and fun looking, which is probably the only thing these pictures are trying to achieve, cause from what i can tell, FFTA didn't really have much story, just a set of missions and no heavy duty story characters. Please correct me if i'm wrong though, i didn't play very far.

Check out the FFTA2 site and you'll see the other characters are much easier on the eye and also that the load of accessories is pretty much a mark of a main character. The whole visual side seems to be in really good shape too, i like it enough to spark an interest in the upcoming game, even though i don't like tactics type games that much.

Fashion shows in RPGs FTW btw  :y:, they have their place even though all games don't excecute it in the best possible manner.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on September 06, 2007, 02:48:58 pm
we're not five year olds here, we can handle it.

Well i know some of us aren't,  :hehe:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 06, 2007, 04:36:08 pm
I don't see a lot of people doing anime-bashing, at least, not enough! Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one doing the lord's work!


My reasons are very founded in any case, thanks for presuming :P. If you want to discuss them sure.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on September 06, 2007, 04:48:02 pm
anime is sure as hell overrated, but there a lot out there thats actually quite good imo.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 06, 2007, 05:01:43 pm
I agree. I'm worried about what sort of influence it has by-and-large.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Fingerfoods on September 06, 2007, 05:05:45 pm
anime is sure as hell overrated, but there a lot out there thats actually quite good imo.

That's like saying that sci-fi or fantasy is overrated; there are good shows in any genre. That, and every genre is flooded with more bad than good anyway. We've got all kinds of shit on the Sci-fi channel, but we also have Doctor Who and Firefly; likewise, we have fifteen thousand Dragon Ball Zs, but we also have Paranoia Agent and Death Note.

I know you said that there are some good ones, but calling a genre 'overrated' is just too broad.

But, yes, we need less Yu-Gi-Oh! and Dragon Ball getting the attention. On a side note, large hairstyles don't bother me much, but Cloud looks simply horrid outside Advent Children, in which he was actually in some freakish way almost normal.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rawsushi on September 06, 2007, 07:08:55 pm
If it makes you feel better, Helm, I feel that anime is a cancer on the art world.

There's good anime; it exists. I love Ghibli fiilms, but that's because it's quality is so far above and beyond typical anime, it's in a class all it's own. It's almost like comparing an episode of Scooby Doo with, say, Disney's Jungle Book. Oh man... and BAD anime art? I can't think of anything more painful to look at. Don't get me wrong; I watch some anime series. Hell, I have a shelf on my bookshelf dedicated to the stuff. Some of the stories are great, but the art is always laughably bad.

Seriously, what's worse than a bad/generic anime? Anime imitators. (See TOTALLY SPIES for a lesson in ultimate suffering.) If you really want to see the effect anime has had on the art world, visit DeviantArt sometime.
If only the artform wasn't so formulaic, maybe then there'd be less immitating.

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail57.html
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 06, 2007, 07:15:04 pm
I am your echo.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 06, 2007, 07:16:43 pm
the big differences are that rue has a very impressive (if slightly TOO by-the-book) level of cohesion and theme at work on his appearence.  Ramza from the original FFT went throguh a number of equally well designed costumes; in fact, the entire cast of that game is designed at a level that surpasses most other games.

not all good characters are from a different time either.  marche, despite his shockingly rendered behind, actually has a strong level of cohesion and adheres to design fundamentals.  other characters in the new game do well, though a lot of them appear to have been cut in half (cohesion strong within lower body and upper body, but each region seemingly takes from separate characters).  FFXII showcased a strange combination of exquisitely designed if emotionless characters (balthier, basch, possibly penelo although her outfit does not fit the rest of the game, and the judges, and even fran, though her design was less pleasing it was well constructed) and terribly designed characters (vaan, ashe, anyone of royalty, etc).

in a rush but there's always more to list




americanime is commercial garbage at it's worst, producing cheap knockoffs of cheap knockoffs and overmarketing it.  what ever happened to the good shows?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 06, 2007, 07:21:51 pm
overdesign destroys suspension of disbelief for me. If I'm playing a game with an emphasis on gameworld then the characters should fit in the gameworld. Not models that do everything in their super-stylised poses all the time. Young people think if it looks 'cool' that's all it has to do, but I expect more from characterization than 'coo'ness. Basically what the Ren and Stimpy dude said in his blog post about anime. There's more to characters than appearing cool. They must be human. These... empty soulless things in Final Fantasy games are certainly not packed with human emotion. The most repeated main character line in these types of jrpgs is '...' for christ's sake!

Do the marketing teams think that young people can only connect with emotional cripples? If so, that's an awesome self-fulfilling prophecy.

Insert 'OMG U SUCK, MAN, FF7 WAS THE MOUST TOUGNGH LOEV STORY EVER I KRIED WHEN AERIS DIED!1' replies here
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on September 06, 2007, 07:52:55 pm
When i read the ren and stimpy guys stuff, yeah i agreed, but i also remembered how i thought the old cartoons were totally not cool and Swat Kats was the coolest thing ever created. So there, me age uhh 12 (maybe? when was swat kats aired?) disagrees, me now agrees... maybe..  unless i feel like sitting back to take a dose of DBZ, which is awesome unless you're unable to channel it. What i'm trying to say is that superficial cool has it's merits as well, it works if you know you're doing superficial cool. Then there's the type of cool ren and stimpy guy described.

Final Fantasy works for me.Still I didn't play FFTA too far for the reasons described, felt soulless and empty.
Final Fantasy is an awesome series though, helm obviously tries to tune in on the wrong frequency and can't enjoy it, but what gives, it's not for everyone, i don't like every single game in the series either. Just watched the over 2hour final fantasy retrospective on gametrailers.com and it reminded how great it is.

Maybe you could try and study what's a reality for a whole lot of people other than you to understand new things. Tune your brain.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 06, 2007, 08:16:56 pm
DBZ... I used to watch it religiously, and it must have repeated here 20 times, a few months ago I hunted down everyones favourite episode where goku finally turns super saiyan (I feel like an idiot typing this :D)
but yeah, I couldn't stand watching it, everything was so weird, such little silence between sentences, then they'd show the water crashing up against some rocks for 30 seconds, and they'd always have the camera pan out to ridiculous lengths during seemingly epic conversations..
I really can't remember how I fooled myself into loving the show


I've never really gotten into Final Fantasy games, but from what I have played, all the characters seem rather standard stock, but they are presented in such flamboyantly unique designs that you're expected to look past it..
and when I say unique, I mean they're just wearing so much bizarre crap that it's mathematically implausible that another character would ever look the same.
That character I posted on the last page, if you took away everything except the overalls and regular sword, and maybe gave him a more unique face (if I bothered, I bet I could find that face on a thousand other characters) - he wouldn't look half bad.

I think it goes without saying, but the best character designs are simple in that, even if you draw them badly, people can still recognize them..
draw that FFTA2 character badly and it will probably look like a christmas tree
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Blick on September 06, 2007, 08:38:54 pm
September 19, I begin my drive to Burien, Washington. I will arrive approximately 10 days later. Then I will be forced to figure out what I want to do with my life, for the time being at least.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 06, 2007, 09:04:03 pm
Quote
Maybe you could try and study what's a reality for a whole lot of people other than you to understand new things. Tune your brain.

It's difficult to forget your own experiences that have enriched your life so you can connect with 10 year olds that have never kissed a girl just so you can see how the final fantasy stock storyline is evocative and meaninful to them. In fact besides it being an excercise in frustration, I would also be learning nothing more than efficient methods to sell things to kids, which certainly isn't my job as I am not a marketer. I think more people should be more honest about what they think would make good gaming for them and design that instead of pandering to the tried-and-true lowest common denominator that is 10 year olds with a playstation.

I don't need to think like anybody else. Other people need to take the responsibility and create art that is meaninful to them and not just made according to a winning formula. This creates great-seller games that are formulaic, and is hurting the quality of games. Every final fantasy game that goes out and sells well is delaying the progress of this art form by 3 years or something. These games survive because we're uncritical about videogames. The only way I can understand that a person such as you says they can enjoy a FF game (as you're neither 10 nor devoid of experience, I hope) is that you've created a tolerance for them over the years, and are able to switch your critical capacity off while playing. Why is this a good thing to learn to do about videogames?!

I know, people gotta make a living, but that's not what we're discussing, here, is it? We're discussing intention and you are telling me I should intentionally try to think like people with fewer experiences or lesser intelligence, to feel empathy towards their empty lives and the vacant videogames they buy. Why? I know they exist, I know that they have their tastes, I have mine.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 06, 2007, 09:54:49 pm
Thank you for explaining yourself Adarias.  THAT's the kind of criticism I appreciate.  One that actually goes into detail why a design does or does not "work".  I can't say I agree with all it, as the artist at least tried in some areas to tie it all together (such as the flared sleeves and pant-legs), and I don't see the color as being such a big issue as you make it.  Mostly in this case because the FFTA games take place in a children's storybook.  What do you see when you look at children's story books?  Well the first thing that always comes to my mind is bright and cheerful colors, though, basic colors.  And that's almost entirely what the main character of FFTA2 is composed of.  If you look at it that way, I would be inclined to believe either the artist knew exactly what they were going for, or the employer had a specific image in mind, from which they could not largely stray.  I'm also further inclined to believe that is true because said same artist has and is capable of much more aesthetically pleasing and organized designs, but perhaps in this case, that's not what they were aiming for.  I think students, specically, who concentrate too much on the technical aspect of their craft get caught in a trap of overanalyzing and criticizing everything to death, without looking at the larger picture, and ignoring the nitty-gritty details for just once.  In the end, it will make you a better artist, but not all art is created equal, and not all art is created for the same use.  If you continually break down any piece of art, all will, at least at a very specific fundamental level, have some sort of error or design flaw.

Anyway, I'm not personally a fan of animé, but I more so have personal favorite artists.  Japanese-wise, I dig Ayami Kojima, and I know he gets a lot of flack, but I really admire Yoshitaka Amano for more or less always doing his own thing.  That's an artist that you KNOW very liberally designs whatever description of a character is given to him.  I think it was this peculiar characteristic that ultimately had him booted from being the main Final Fantasy artist.  Square needed someone that would more easily design characters that fit their bill, and characters that could be easily consumable by the masses, characters that we've already described as always looking cool, no matter what was going on.  In the process, there was a loss of a unique art style once brought to Final Fantasy, and what I like to think was a loss of softness, beauty and imagination.

And wow Helm I totally agree with you.  And I was in that same position you just described.  Around 10 or so and my main dish was Final Fantasy VI.  I thought it was amazing cause it dealt with issues, that at the time, I had no idea about.  Love, war, family, tolerance, and so on.  As I've gotten older, maybe just grumpier, but I find I am extremely critical of games.  Whenever I encounter something in a game that I find odd or displeases me, I always wonder, why is this so?  What could be done to make this better?  Why was nothing done in the first place?  And I guess the obvious answer is because the general gaming population doesn't care, or doesn't acknowledge those things I find problematic to be as such.  I don't even play games for storylines anymore, since these things have not evolved in the least bit.  At this age, I could write a better story, about things that are either central issues to me, or ideas that have yet to be touched upon by shallow videogame storylines.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on September 06, 2007, 10:00:56 pm
One should still distinguish between the capacity to enjoy a game not necessarily being proportional to the game's perfection in every regard.  I've enjoyed a few Final Fantasy games recently (XII and III specifically) in spite of their many faults, because there were things they did well.  They certainly didn't do everything well, and they know it (at least XII's team does), but they're human.  They're still better games than 90% of what was released last year (not that that is excusing them, but some perspective helps I think).

I mean, critique is always important, and never more so than in the public marketplace, where single game releases can change the entire industry overnight (GTA III for example).  However, if you can only enjoy perfect games, you're missing out on a lot of great stuff!  Every game makes mistakes, but I believe there is almost always some little thing to be learned from most any game, and especially from games that are up in that top 10% of the year's releases brackets.  Heck there are even positive aspects to frat-boy DM-fests like Halo (not many, but they're there).

I guess what I'm trying to say is it is fine to find a game's every fault, but I usually learn more by trying to find what games do right.  In that regard, I think its a mistake to simply discard Final Fantasy as a franchise.  Does a lot of the internet give virtual blow jobs to everything FF on a regular basis?  Yes.  Does this automatically deprive the series of any value?  I don't think so, but maybe there is a piece of the puzzle that I am missing.  Does the internet art community need a strong anti-anime voice?  Probably.  But I would think that a strong pro-good-art voice would be enough?  I mean wouldn't that preclude bad anime by default?  I dunno...back to procrastinating!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on September 06, 2007, 10:04:13 pm
@Blick: So you're actually going through with it, eh? Oh well. I'll pack you a nice Inuit lunch, and eskimo pie for desert so you don't go starving yourself on your sacred journey. Soldier on, young Inuit, soldier on!

@Helm: Liek oH my Gawdz, U Remind mE  soo much of Snape, from Harry Potter(what with the angry-toned, stern mentor, and all...)

   But seriously, I guess I'm like these other supposed pretentious stiff nosed, artists who don't like Anime, or new generation gameplay direction(in terms of visual Aesthetics...). I find the Final Fantasy stuff ok, it's just that they take it too damn far sometimes. Not to mention the androgynous nature of some male designs...seriously, stop it. Hopefully, I'm alone in this confused department, else future generations of feeble minds will grow flabbergasted over what gender they are, and what goes where. Understandably, every kid has his right to imagination, and kooky designs. If anything, I'm definitely all for that. But then we start leaning toward a more wider, mature audience, thus asking for more sex appeal for more sales. I'm not one of those, "stop sex and violence in videogames, IT KILLS JEEBUS', and makes baby kittens cry tears of his sacrificed blood!!". I just have to admit, it creates a strange gray area, for child like designs, mixed with adult themes. Psychologically, this may cause a shorter gap and transition between childhood, and adulthood, which may lead to some unhealthy results. I also have issues with other non-anime-ish games, like newer Soul Calibur games. What's going on with the freaking designs? The vibrancy of it is killing me. Damn near, all the females of the game HAVE THE SAME FACE AND BODY STRUCTURE, but different clothes and colored hair. I think designers really need to look at humans and see if they can achieve separation, and differentiation  through the simplest means of design, AND THEN work on outer design, like clothing, and accessories(I think this might be a product of frequently honoring similar designs by habit).
   This is not to say that Eastern artists are horrible. By any means, this is so freaking untrue. Different strokes for different folks, ya' know. I still enjoy some anime-ish art, just not as much as some hardcore gamers who take it as seriously, and all of a sudden lead a j-rock lifestyle(blegh...).
   However, my opinion on this subject is most likely prone to be countered hard, as my gaming has been decreased to an extreme minimum ( mostly due to this very issue, marketing, and the failure to create something different or groundbreaking away from the norm.).In other words, I'm probably just talking out of my ass...

@TakaM: I...HATE...that....show. I swear, there's always some dramatic pause in DBZ, during some ridiculously long, 2 episode battle, where one or more characters are looking surprised or shocked with their mouth open and grunting. They always frickin' grunt during the strangest, silent moments. But yeah...hate that f****** show, and the fan art it produces...(that's right, I'm a hater.)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 06, 2007, 10:08:29 pm
I found FFXII to be quite average.  Certainly not terrible, but it didn't feel fresh, new, or revolutionary in any way.  The storyline was pretty skimpy, quite barebones and only at certain moments did I get some glimmer or intrigue or interest, but it soon faded away since the storyline segments are so far between.  The characters had potential, but weren't especially original or interesting.  Many suffering from the "must always look cool" plague.  The battle system ran well, but had its kinks.  The most glaring, IMO is the whole pointless magic "queue", where attacks take precedence, and long-winded spells could only be thrown out so often.  Enough of that.  Good game, certainly not great by any means.

The best example of what you described (a flawed, though enjoyable game) from my experience is Xenosaga.  The creators here were actually in it to tell a story.  One that was much too epic and expansive to be allowed by the budget allotted to them by Namco.  In the end, the storyline was butchered, and the games slap-dash.  However, it was still enjoyable, the basic themes and ideas that the original writers and creators wanted to express were still there, however raped and severed they may have been.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 06, 2007, 10:23:33 pm
Adam, we're not talking about overambitious games that try to get so many things right that they inadvertantly fail here and there. In fact we're talking about the exact opposite: we're talking about underambition as a curse. Rote repetition design, same in, same out, where the designers purposefully make a game with an interesting story and with an okay battle system, and a game with a great battle system but a shitty story. Why not make a game with a great story, art direction and gameplay? To not up the standard too much so they can't follow up on it. They want people to buy two games, if they want good action and good story. This is fact, this is how the japanese design and it's not very often this is broken. Tradition is a very important thing, and you don't just go about changing the face of gaming just because you can, mister! We have quotas to meet!

Quote
I guess what I'm trying to say is it is fine to find a game's every fault, but I usually learn more by trying to find what games do right.

No. The intentional 'faults' must be underlined, brought to light and shoved in their face. Lack of vision, tired aesthetic, bullshit writing, nintendo logic endlessly self-propagating titled series of the same thing. The gamer must not be considered a brainless 'I'll play anything with a recognisable brand name on it' sheep. But for this to happen, they'd have to stop being such first.

Quote
Hopefully, I'm alone in this confused department, else future generations of feeble minds will grow flabbergasted over what gender they are, and what goes where.

This has been a very conscious decision by the ones doing it, and it's all about marketing and target audience maximisation.

Quote
Damn near, all the females of the game HAVE THE SAME FACE AND BODY STRUCTURE,

Behold the face of the future and despair: 3d anime!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Fingerfoods on September 06, 2007, 10:39:07 pm
An anime with great animation and design was Fullmetal Alchemist. Naturally, being Shounen anime, the faces were square-ish and the eyes were enormous, but the characters were usually distinctive enough to tell them apart at a glance, and most of the characters wore the same uniform. The designs were really simple, too.

Anime really doesn't bother me; when it's done correctly, it usually looks quite nice (Ghibli!). However, there's a lot of Tsubasa Reservoir (probably the most painful show I've ever laid eyes upon). There are a number of great-looking anime out there, though. You just have to dig.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 06, 2007, 10:46:17 pm
What you're asking Helm isn't necessarily impossible, though improbable.  To have a game with the best story, the best graphics, the best gameplay and the best everything (that is to strive for the very best) would require year and years of development at millions and millions of dollars in investment.  Only a handfull of game companies at the moment are able to do this, and even though this be the case, it rarely happens.  In order for a game to churn maximum profit, the bare-minimum must be done.  Usually, developers who aren't simply money hungry, or driven by a money hungry parent corporation, try to at least incorporate something, anything, that will slightly raise their product beyond bare minimum.  The longer a project is in development and the more money that is invested in something, the sweatier and more nervous the parent company gets.  What if it bombs?  What if problems are encountered throughout the agonizingly long development process?  Which would mean more hours, and more money?  At this time, many companies are hanging by threads, living from very few game releases to game releases.  One bomb, one potential disaster, and it means game over (pardon the pun).  This is exactly what happened to Square.  Spirits Within = GGPO.  Hello Square Enix.  Hello FFVII sidestory # 298347928470987242983479284987249872372423, Star Ocean remakes, sequels, sidestories, Valkyrie Profile, Dragon Quest remakes, expansions, breakfast cereal ... you get the idea.  This is due to many variables.  The cost of development for new generation consoles = an arm, a leg, a torso, and various genitalia.  Writers cost money, which is why many games are written in house, by someone whose degree has nothing to do in the least with writing an interesting or coherent story.  Marketting, more money.  And the list goes on.

So while what you're asking is admirable, it's not going to happen.  Perhaps, if the graphical war had stopped at say SNES or Playstation, it would be possible, since graphical mastery would have reached its peak, as well as costs being easily managable, and programming deciphered and having become recognizable.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 06, 2007, 11:02:26 pm
FMA and bleach are examples of productions with a group of very talented artists, but they of course still have a lot of filler (whole episodes at times), and they both fall back onto the overused chibi "expressions" whenever they need to make sure the 10 year olds are appeased.  They also do things like give the most annoying possible voices to characters and other things that separate their subjects from people in an unattractive way.

I wish there was a show or animated film which, like some of the old movies from the 30's and 40's, PAY ATTENTION to what people can and cannot do.  chase scenes in which people can only jump a few short feet, or where jumping out a window breaks legs, or where the actor actually spends 100% of his time carrying his possessions rather than merely producing them at the opportune moment.  Haversacks and canteens are needed for simple day-trips, the inability to carry a 8r0d5w0rd in their pocket is a real issue, etc.  I don't want to watch the characters piss, but it would be so much better if they had more human and less superhuman qualities about them.

there was an old animated film about a ronin that did exactly this; lovingly illustrated every aspect of the traveler's life, and the life of a warrior.  I wish i could remember the title?  Does anyone else remember this?  The hero had no name and there were areas that contained scene after scene without dialogue, just his daily activities set to traditional music.




As far as analysis, i go first with the impact of a piece, is it good or is it bad, then look for a few things.

What about this piece makes it good and how could those qualities better be amplified?
where does the piece fall short and how could those aspects be fixed or removed?

OR

what about this piece makes it bad and how could those be fixed or removed?
what are the good aspects of a bad design which can be salvaged?

In the case of FFTA2, i see it and think bad, so that is where the harsh criticism comes from first, and the redeeming qualities (there are a few) come later.  If i like a piece, it's praises will be sung first, it's flaws found later.

sonic : If you really think that a person is living their entire live by picking apart every little detail so that there is nothing left but rules based purely on the fact that they put together a rough critique of a piece they didn't like, you are generalizing in an extremely negative manner.  It seems in your eyes I've gone from being racist and unfounded to being hopelessly obsessed with technique and rules.  I think that you need to actually get to know a person before voicing such judgments because you're so far off your mark it's not even funny anymore.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Fingerfoods on September 06, 2007, 11:47:27 pm
I wish there was a show or animated film which, like some of the old movies from the 30's and 40's, PAY ATTENTION to what people can and cannot do.  chase scenes in which people can only jump a few short feet, or where jumping out a window breaks legs, or where the actor actually spends 100% of his time carrying his possessions rather than merely producing them at the opportune moment.  Haversacks and canteens are needed for simple day-trips, the inability to carry a 8r0d5w0rd in their pocket is a real issue, etc.  I don't want to watch the characters piss, but it would be so much better if they had more human and less superhuman qualities about them.

In something like, say, Naruto? I agree. People often leave craters in various stone/wood objects and quickly pick themselves up and continue fighting. Bleach is something else, though. Bleach is much more superhero. It's got a whole 'I'm so badass I can cut buildings apart' that isn't half as painful as most anime make it; that show has some serious punk attitude, which makes the enormous-sword-toting pretty cool in comparison to Cloud who may or may not be male. Such scenes have completely ruined the series of late, though. When they were more infrequent, the series was awesome.

Oh, and FMA had very little filler; even the side episodes like the Lust/Lujon romance still served a purpose - namely, fleshing out the thinner characters.

Anyway.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 07, 2007, 12:07:20 am
'serious punk attitude'

if you're 10.

Which is okay, anime for 10 year olds is okay. Where's the anime for 30 year olds? And there is some. Where's the video-gaming for 30 year olds? I am closer to 30 than to 10 nowdays, I can't relate to OMGAWESOME.

Adarias:

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sonic : If you really think that a person is living their entire live by picking apart every little detail so that there is nothing left but rules based purely on the fact that they put together a rough critique of a piece they didn't like, you are generalizing in an extremely negative manner.  It seems in your eyes I've gone from being racist and unfounded to being hopelessly obsessed with technique and rules.  I think that you need to actually get to know a person before voicing such judgments because you're so far off your mark it's not even funny anymore.

what does this refer to that sonic said? I do not see a relevant quote.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 07, 2007, 12:12:01 am
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  I think students, specically, who concentrate too much on the technical aspect of their craft get caught in a trap of overanalyzing and criticizing everything to death, without looking at the larger picture, and ignoring the nitty-gritty details for just once.  In the end, it will make you a better artist, but not all art is created equal, and not all art is created for the same use.  If you continually break down any piece of art, all will, at least at a very specific fundamental level, have some sort of error or design flaw.

there's nothing wrong with the statement except that it is rather misdirected in my opinion.


as far as the 10 year old storylines, I agree, it would be nice to have mature themes (in a literary sense) addressed on a more regular basis (and not just the run-of-the-mill "shock of death" and "who am I and what is my purpose?" conflicts, I mean really fleshed out storylines that take on complicated issues the way great films do.)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on September 07, 2007, 12:18:12 am
@Adarias:
The Cowboy Bebop movie isn't too far off what you want.
The villain is borderline superhuman, but everyone else has to get by on being ordinary.
Attention to detail is pretty high too.

Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au1AO1xaEts&mode=related&search=
Here's the first few minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYkRA0W6K_M


Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 07, 2007, 12:37:23 am
that does look interesting, i'll have to stop by the video store some time....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 07, 2007, 12:40:58 am
Cowboy Bebop is very good yes. It's stylish but it has substance too.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 07, 2007, 12:45:54 am
Yeah, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo and FLCL all the way. Favorite episode of Cowboy Bebop is probably the one where Spike finds that spoiled crab in the fridge at the end.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 07, 2007, 01:06:49 am
Ha, I did see that episode and thought it was pretty funny. I never really got into Cowboy bebop that much.
I did like FMA, for its story and as a anime, I personally thought it had great production value. It was also mildly short compared to other anime's so I didn't have to dedicate years of my life to watching it(on cable).
And I could have sworn I posted just before...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 07, 2007, 02:05:31 am
in a totally off-topic post, i love trees, even manhattan trees :

(http://xs319.xs.to/xs319/07365/IMG_0215COPY.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 07, 2007, 02:09:32 am
Okay, being serious, this reminds me of the family guy episode where the new yorkers come to town and Lois learns to fight.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on September 07, 2007, 02:15:12 am
Samurai Champloo is a bit of a rollercoaster.
Varies in quality quite a lot. Loved the fight scene in the rain with the blind girl.
Dunno why they changed the style so drastically for it though... it looked much nicer before.

The Cowboy Bebop series is a bit lacking at times as well, but there are a few gems in there.
Last couple of episodes were brilliant, as was the 1st and 3rd (I think), but there were a lot of unecessary episodes that featured ridiculous plots too.

The animation in Mezzo Forte is quite nice too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8wum1C5b9w
It's completely over the top though; much like a kung-fu movie. Might be a turn off, might not.
They also made a series entitled Mezzo that features the same characters, and has pretty nice animation up until the midway point at which it went down the toilet for reasons unknown to me.

I believe Kite is similarly well animated (made by the same guy) but has a better plot. Haven't seen it though, so can't verify.

Miyazaki's movies are always fun, although I think his plots are becoming too abstract.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 07, 2007, 02:39:41 am
mezzo forte - hurray for picking random words for titles! (although the anime MIGHT have something to do with being slightly loud...i doubt it)

The animation does look good though :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Froli on September 07, 2007, 04:41:56 am
DBZ anime suffered from fillers and trying to prolong the show by making their power ups or even a simple reaction takes forever. Unlike the manga, it was quite fast phased.

The opinions about anime is right on the spot, and I'm quite grateful that this board gave me a direction to pursue realistic drawings, human anatomy/figures, gestures, and build up my basics to strengthen my knowledge.  My question now is, when is the appropriate time to apply manga/anime art style? For example, If you create a japanese style rpg sprite that is cute and deformed like Adarias current project, would it really match realistic human portraits to represent your characters? How would you guys approach it if given a chance to work on it?

And holy crap, what in the hell is that character design posted by Takam? That's just wrong   




Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 07, 2007, 06:34:16 am
Hmm, away from the whole anime chatter...
My memory of old pixelation is quite vague... but there's always been a question I've had about it. Everyone knows the whole dancing banana thing(Peanut butter jelly time!), and I remember a long, long time ago someone posted(or had it as their avatar, I can't remember), the pixelated dancing banana animation. Any of the old people remember if it started(drawn) by a pixelation member, or just some people spreading an already famous fad?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Lawrence on September 07, 2007, 07:05:00 am
I believe it was SplatPixel (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/12682.htm).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 07, 2007, 07:32:42 am
Lol, that's him, I remember now :D
:P So did he create the whole dancing banana trend or was he just following it? His animation was the first time I ever saw it, so I was never sure, and I didn't get around much on the internet back then.
If so, kudos to SplatPixel!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Fingerfoods on September 07, 2007, 09:42:51 am
as far as the 10 year old storylines, I agree, it would be nice to have mature themes (in a literary sense) addressed on a more regular basis (and not just the run-of-the-mill "shock of death" and "who am I and what is my purpose?" conflicts, I mean really fleshed out storylines that take on complicated issues the way great films do.)

Eek. That sounds like Wolf's Rain. :P The ending was completely horrible.

As a side note, my dad watches Bleach. And I'm not the bastard child of a ten-year-old.

Bleach is pretty much my only Shounen anime, besides FMA.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on September 07, 2007, 11:02:02 am
@Dusty: I believe splat was just following the ongoing trend. Where the fork is that guy, any way? He hardly ever visits us anymore.

In more OT chatter: Do we really need both the letter "k" and "c"? Why not one or the other? I think there was once talk of abandoning one of the letters, but I forgot which articles they were. I'm sure they were bull-crap, though. And isn't it mind blowing, that humans can only make sounds associated with the alphabet? The first time I realized this, I felt so...limited.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: robalan on September 07, 2007, 01:38:28 pm
... humans can only make sounds associated with the alphabet ...
This statement is only vaguely true.  German has several more vowels than English, and Chinese has a bunch more consonants (some of which I have trouble pronouncing, but that's a matter of practice).  There are lots of sounds that the English alphabet does not cover, and I'm sure there are other sounds that aren't covered in any alphabet.  The human voice is an amazing instrument, and can produce more sounds than you may think ;)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Ai on September 07, 2007, 02:41:31 pm
I think this post might be OT (that is OT for this thread).
'Content Aware Image Resizing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qadw0BRKeMk

Extremely cool; One of the reasons I say this is it shrinks the picture by removing seams -- there is no decimation, so no intermediate colors are added, and this method tends to discern the important features of the image rather well. It breaks for some images that are just too 'full' already.
It seems to perform decently on pixel art, certainly well enough to save time. I chose some of the 'overworld' art from Flink and Lionheart as a stress test cause it's so detailed, and I must say it is pretty good even then at keeping the relevant detail and discarding the rest. (I did my tests using Carlo Baldassi's implementation of CAIR for Gimp (http://web.tiscali.it/carlobaldassi/))
You should be aware that the more you shrink it, the more it's liable to effect the composition; after all, it works by gradually removing the 'insignificant spaces' in the picture.

My tests so far suggest that it's most useful for aspect ratio changes -- for example, resizing a wallpaper made for a laptop's wide screen to be suitable for a classic 4:3 display.
I haven't tried it for upscaling yet.... (update) have now. Doesn't appear very useful at all; maybe only for sparse photographs, not art.

EDIT: Probably it's best application is in texturing, to maximize the amount of 'meaningful' texture so the texture can be smaller.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 07, 2007, 02:54:51 pm
the trouble I see with this is that it creates blasphemous perspective in it's current form.  The only way to preserve that is for it to generate a three-dimensional understanding of the forms as it moves them (you'd need at least 2 photographs and radar/sonar detection, or a very capable way of faking it), and we are a long way form that being available to the public :P

English is one of the more foolish alphabets in that it includes several letter that make identical sounds and contains several letters responsible for multiple sounds.  There are any number of sounds that are not represented by our consonants, as well as a number of non-sounds (c,", etc)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on September 07, 2007, 03:00:39 pm
@Dusty: I believe splat was just following the ongoing trend. Where the fork is that guy, any way? He hardly ever visits us anymore.

In more OT chatter: Do we really need both the letter "k" and "c"? Why not one or the other? I think there was once talk of abandoning one of the letters, but I forgot which articles they were. I'm sure they were bull-crap, though. And isn't it mind blowing, that humans can only make sounds associated with the alphabet? The first time I realized this, I felt so...limited.

Yes, we do need them.

K always makes a hard sound whereas C does not always.
Cake vs. Cace. You would pronounce the second "case".
There's also the "Ch" sound.

I find it extremely unlikely that there was any talk of removing one of those letters. For starters, nobody has the authority to do that, and second it's totally impracticle.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: The B.O.B. on September 07, 2007, 03:08:38 pm
@Robalan, and Adarias: Are you sure about the whole foolish alphabet thing? I'm not just talking about sounds in a literary point of view, I mean ALL sounds in general. When you hear a car crash, you hear sounds learned from the alphabet(at least what is supposedly created/translated by it's creators from the alphabet's very beginning). It's not exactly omneomonopea, but just sound recognition in general. You can't escape that we've covered the sounds. Seriously, try making a sound, without attaching letters to it(again, as this is what humans are taught to understand, but doesn't necessarily make it completely right....). It's kind of hard. Thats kind of where I feel limited....it's stupid, I know, but I find it extremely fascinating...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 07, 2007, 03:29:00 pm
trumpet training taught me at least one letterless sound (for the non-horn-players pull your lips tight and blow so that they buzz)

there are all sorts of humms and whirrs that sound nothing like those noises, or indeed any sorts of letter.

a crane pulling on a load of clanging metal sounds nothing like letters.

"beep beep" can just as easily be heard "doik doik" or any other combination of letters if you listen for it, and therefor is not bound to any particular sound that our brain recognizes.

You may be the type of learner who immediately cognizes sounds as letters, but i don't think that means that all humans percieve things as such.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on September 07, 2007, 04:06:43 pm
It's difficult to forget your own experiences that have enriched your life so you can connect with 10 year olds that have never kissed a girl just so you can see how the final fantasy stock storyline is evocative and meaninful to them.
I don't mean you should engage in regressive activity. I don't need to connect with 10 year olds to enjoy the same things they do. I don't want or need you to do anything you dislike of course, it's up to you, just suggested something i find enjoyable and i enjoy numerous things. Do refrain from defining people by their likes and dislikes though. Someone is possessive obsessive, 10 year old and bad with girls for liking FF7? That's a childish way of thinking imo.

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I think more people should be more honest about what they think would make good gaming for them and design that instead of pandering to the tried-and-true lowest common denominator that is 10 year olds with a playstation.
True, it just happens to be that FF part of my good gaming. There's a great many things to take home from the series. If something i like also broadens the audience, my my that's a good vessel to bring something new to the table. Use a piece of a common denominator to deliver something i fancy but don't find in these new games.

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Other people need to take the responsibility and create art that is meaninful to them and not just made according to a winning formula. This creates great-seller games that are formulaic, and is hurting the quality of games. Every final fantasy game that goes out and sells well is delaying the progress of this art form by 3 years or something. These games survive because we're uncritical about videogames
Parts of the winning formula are certainly meaningful to me.

Want progress, better quality? Throw a stick in the gears not by playing the games you hate and bitching to the fans about how shit their favorite thing is, but rather take what you know and create something better. If others are doing bad on purpose it shouldn't be too hard. I'm not going for the you do better argument, but rather that it is possible for you to at least try. I know plenty of people and gaming companies that do their own thing and easily stay alive.
Want better entertainment? Engage in better entertainment rather than checking out what 10 year olds play and go on a rampage to make the 10 year olds game better for you. "Holy HELL I HATE PUDDING, What the hell are they thinking of when making pudding, they should make Tryffels with chocolate sauce on top, christ! all you pudding lovers are unintelligent"

There are insane amounts of tryffels out there, go and play them.

Don't feel like it? Stop playing games and do something more fun like take a bicycle ride around a lake and reflect on simple things that make your day better.. I'm perplexed that you play so many games just to hate them to bits fully knowing you'll end up hating them. But hey, if that rocks your boat, have fun.

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The only way I can understand that a person such as you says they can enjoy a FF game (as you're neither 10 nor devoid of experience, I hope) is that you've created a tolerance for them over the years, and are able to switch your critical capacity off while playing.
Just settle with not understanding me.
Sometimes simple themes and worlds can be the best fun to be had. Stuff like Bleach,Naruto and One piece, all inspired by DBZ.
Some just don't GET it, simple as that and there's nothing wrong with it.

Some enjoy a bottle of guinnes and grilled sausage while watching golf, which doesn't sound like a deep and engaging activity, yet it has the potential to be just that.

@Takam
DBZ can create the most amazing adrenaline rush if you can find the hook. It's the simplest of stories on one of our basic needs, which is to become greater, stronger and ascend to the next level. The show has ridicilous stretching, no real story and shaky animation, but it doesn't stop it from being awesome for me. You shouldn't feel like an idiot about it either... sounds like social pressure is getting the better of you. When working out to physically train for military service, i used to watch DBZ music videos or movies for kicks, and the kicks were fantastic. Eventually i got a near perfect score from a strength test only officers and a few beefcakes above me. Oh good times... i'm as strong as a macaroni now though  :hehe:

@Sonic Reaper
Yess, xenosaga, awesome, though suffers from being broken as a game, yet a game is the best way to convey that particular story. EP3 was the most intact piece, yet it's hard to enjoy if you didn't play the two previous games. Kind of suicidal way of putting together the saga, but they did take it to an ending of some kind. Every string was pulled to keep it alive, but eventually it wasn't enough, but they did try their best without a doubt.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 07, 2007, 07:28:09 pm
I don't mean you should engage in regressive activity. I don't need to connect with 10 year olds to enjoy the same things they do. I don't want or need you to do anything you dislike of course, it's up to you, just suggested something i find enjoyable and i enjoy numerous things. Do refrain from defining people by their likes and dislikes though. Someone is possessive obsessive, 10 year old and bad with girls for liking FF7? That's a childish way of thinking imo.

There are many reasons for liking something, but we should look at the social trends and not the exceptions first when we're talking about game design. I do say that most people that find a ff storyline engaging do so because they simply have not experienced something better yet. This is an effect that is carefully calculated and encouraged by big-time game designers. Don't make a game too good, we'll spoil our players!

The graphics race is on, because it sells video cards and such, but we've been able to have a different race, one for good storytelling and good gameplay for the longest time, and the big companies are not in that race. Because that race is not based on technology people buy, but standard skills and concepts that have existed for many years. It takes TALENT and UNDERSTANDING to make a good game. Those aren't in endless supply, and they cannot be upgraded two years from now by buying a new talent card.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it's not generally hurtful to gaming and shouldn't be seen and critiqued openly as such. Final Fantasy games hurt gaming.

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Parts of the winning formula are certainly meaningful to me.

For me too.

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Want progress, better quality? Throw a stick in the gears not by playing the games you hate

I don't actually play a game once I've played it to the point where I know I hate it. I drop games like babies all the time. I have no time to lose. But I do play, try to understand them and keep the relevant concepts in my head because game design is probably more interesting than game playing nowdays for me.

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and bitching to the fans about how shit their favorite thing is, but rather take what you know and create something better.

'Bitching' to people about wrong things is a social obligation.

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If others are doing bad on purpose it shouldn't be too hard. I'm not going for the you do better argument, but rather that it is possible for you to at least try. I know plenty of people and gaming companies that do their own thing and easily stay alive.

It is extremely easy to make a game with a better story than Final Fantasy #whatever. It is not however, as easy to have better graphics than it, or music, or presentation. Beause that's where they throw their money and that's what they're trained their audience to go for. Don't you see a self-fulfilling prophecy going on somewhere in there? In the end, who is to blame?

This industry is sick. Good games happen because people go against the grain in a huge way to make them happen, don't you forget it.

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Want better entertainment? Engage in better entertainment rather than checking out what 10 year olds play and go on a rampage to make the 10 year olds game better for you.

I am not trying to make a for 10 year olds game better. You are misunderstanding my perspective of the situation. 10 year olds playing final fantasy is fine (well, not 'fine', but it's a different discussion) but when 30 year olds are so strongly conditioned to shit gaming that they play final fantasy games when they're 30 then we have a cause-and-effect chain here. WHERE ARE THE GAMES FOR 30 YEAR OLDS? They're not making them. If they can keep the player's critical capacity to 10-year-old-level by simply not providing any alterantives forever, they will. Gaming isn't an 'art', it's a product!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 07, 2007, 07:35:13 pm
The last part of your post is whack quoted randomness  :crazy:  I'm guessing that was unintentional.

Like I've said before I've stopped playing games for storylines so very long ago.  After a certain point/age I think many people (if they've explored the world beyond shoddy and poor videogame storytelling) start to write their own storylines, either on paper, or in their head, that far exceeds anything they've recently experienced in videogaming.  At least ideas and concepts will live on.  Games are packed full of interesting themes, even if the writer of said game was unaware of them or they just happened to come about as consequence.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 07, 2007, 07:54:24 pm
Last game that had me pretty interested in the story was Shadow of the Colossus. FF games and such, while I try to keep track of the story(you have to, to know what to do), I generally skip through most of the chit-chat, and at the end of the day, don't really care. SoC made it where they didn't force it down your throat, yet they gave you enough to work with, and enough to keep you interested in the end.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 07, 2007, 08:57:25 pm
Pretty much, when I want a story, I'll read a book.

Movies, I've grown to hate movies that seem to set telling a story as their priority, and love the hell out of movies that focus on the characters and atmosphere.
Same for games, I don't give a damn about the story, I want to feel like I'm experiencing whatever story there is through the gameplay and atmosphere.

of course, I still enjoy a good story, but it's not the reason I'll watch a movie or play a game
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on September 07, 2007, 09:04:54 pm
I'm sure they were bull-crap, though. And isn't it mind blowing, that humans can only make sounds associated with the alphabet? The first time I realized this, I felt so...limited.

I'd say it's the other way around: humans only create alphabets for the sounds they use.

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Pretty much, when I want a story, I'll read a book.

I never understood this segregation.  When I read a book, I want strong story, characters, and atmosphere.  When I watch a movie, I want  strong story, characters, and atmosphere.  When I play a game, I want strong story, characters, atmosphere AND gameplay.

I never separate characters from story, either, it seems to me most good stories are character driven.

Taka, can you give me some examples of movies that focus on characters rather than story, and vice versa?  I'm not sure what types of movies you mean.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 07, 2007, 09:33:46 pm
hehe, as I was typing that, I knew I was coming off a bit rash, to be completely honest, my tastes aren't that black and white.
But for the different mediums, I just think they should have different priorities.

I play games for gameplay, watch movies for atmosphere, and read books for stories.
I don't mean to come off that I don't appreciate a good story in a movie etc, I certainly do appreciate it, but I just prefer a movie that engrosses me through the atmosphere.

I would probably say Dazed and Confused is my favourite example of the atmosphere, minimal insignificant story, just character interaction and atmosphere
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on September 07, 2007, 10:01:52 pm
I agree with you about how different mediums should have different priorities, particularly in the ways they tell a story.  Plays, for instance, tell stories primarily through dialogue, while movies tell stories primarily through visuals.  I don't think video games ever latched on to their own way of storytelling, it's been pretty much inserting a movie in between gameplay segments so far, I think.  It'd be great if someone created a game  that told a story primarily through gameplay, that might be something that actually would propel video games into a more serious medium.
 

I'm not sure if I consider Dazed and Confused as a non story movie or just one with several smaller stories, though I see what you mean.  Though to be honest I'd have to see it again.  Lost in Translation, if I'm remembering correctly, isn't really a story movie either.  In either case they still have threads of stories, even if the emphasis isn't on them, and they are stronger threads than what we usually see in video games, I think.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 07, 2007, 10:10:42 pm
I think there is a big difference between making what you know will be liked and allowing what you know you won't be called on.  Designing for little kids is NO REASON to forget about the importance of design, and falling back on the fact that you've made better games is no excuse to make a crappy one.

A good game to look at too is kingdom hearts; all of the characters are designed to fit their kiddy, stereotyped roles perfectly and attractively.  The FFTA2 kid is just plain broken.

Square is a company that began with games that contained absolutely no emotional content (early FF and seiken densetsu), moved through a period where emotions and complex topics were occasionally engaged (FFT, FF6, 8, Bahamut Lagoon), and then went back to their gradeschool entertainment (ff9, 10, 12, FFTA, KH).  However, even at their best, most of the characters were 2-dimensional and NEVER showed real emotions aside from confusion and stoicism (which are interesting but they only go so far).

Konami did better with Suikoden II, a game which actually had engaging characters, but even so was by literary standards underdeveloped.  One particular moment, killing Seed and Culgan, touched on the idea of the futility of war etc, but it is NOTHING compared to "I have killed the printer, Gerard Duval."  Part of the problem i think is that videogames have only been around for a very small amount of time and have yet to be accepted as a venue for literature in the way that film, drama, or actual writing is.  What is a videogame that makes it very different from a play with audience participation?  Why are they not designed to the same standards that such productions are? Why do crappy games come out after about a year of production when amazing games could come out after 4 or 5 the way books do?  The market is overly concerned with the "smash hit" and "hyped-up" products that it manages to take all the shamelessness of the television industry and mix it with the exclusiveness of the music industry.  At best, they also have the cinematics of the movie industry and the excitement of sports, but where oh where is all the real art?  (btw i know there are some games that fulfill the art concept exquisitely, im not talking about the number of fantastic games that are produced each year, but the industry as a whole)

I can also understand how many things do not fit into the game concept.  The Cider House Rules would nto be a videogame, nor would citizen cane, but what about, say, shakespeare?  any of his plays could be made into RPG, Rhythm, Adventure, or other things without losing sight of the mastery with which they were written.  Hell, half of the games out there are just mediocre comedies or tragedies, with the occasional epic.

whatever happened to games like parapa the rappa or grim fandango?  why didn't psychonaughts revolutionize the industry?  why do people still obsess over frigging WoW and Official Game of the Movies?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: am_pm on September 07, 2007, 10:21:10 pm
There are some games that actually give a 100% real effort in having every element of the game be fulfilling, Bioshock, while new, is an example. It makes real references to books like Atlas Shrugged.

I miss Parrapa the Rappa.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on September 07, 2007, 10:45:05 pm
Quote
What is a videogame that makes it very different from a play with audience participation?

As far as I know, those sorts of plays aren't treated seriously either.

You have a point about the youngness of videogames, and that's very interesting when we compare video games to television.  Television shows have never been treated seriously until very recently, probably only starting with the Sopranos.  (That's not to say that no shows were ever treated seriously before, but only that people began to think that television really was a valid artistic medium.)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 08, 2007, 12:04:56 am
Quote
What is a videogame that makes it very different from a play with audience participation?
As far as I know, those sorts of plays aren't treated seriously either.
so all theatre up until the 1800's has never been taken seriously?  I could have sworn there were a few guys that were pretty well respected prior to that....

it's a very modern thing to exclude the audience.  ever since ancient times the actors have interacted with those in the audience, from the VIP's to the groundlings, until it was bastardized into modern performance where you sit in small seats and say nothing until it's over.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on September 08, 2007, 12:27:36 am
I assumed you were talking about those plays where the audience chooses the ending, which as far as I know, in current times are not respected as artful theatre, just something fun to go see.  It only seems relevant to me to talk about what is respected in plays compared to video games than what once was.

Besides, for the longest time being an actor was considered only a small step above prostitution!  It's also a very modern thing for theatre to be respected.

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 08, 2007, 12:58:53 am
it is a very modern thing too to equate actors with theatre....theatre has always had respected branches and aspects, particularly the playwright. whether or not the actors were respected is an entirely different matter.

if the modern institution is one that rebels against a traditional theatre, it is an institution which should be rallied against and protested.  Last I checked though audience participation has become respected in it's own right as a form of artistic interest.

Spectacles of course never have and never will be respected.  I'm not going to suggest that videogames become a vegas act...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on September 08, 2007, 01:29:59 am
It is not just the actors that were disrepected.  For example, the Globe was built outside of London city limits because theatres were not allowed inside the city, instead they were placed among the brothels.  If that's not a clear indication of how theatre was thought of, I don't know what is.  And, sure, Shakespeare and other playwrights may have garnered respect, but that's not among everyone, just like some people respect video game developers, but largely they were not respected.  Shakespeare was for a long time considered a crude, mediocre playwright.  What is respected changes as culture changes, and even though it's a modern thing to exclude the audience, doesn't mean that things were better back in "traditional" theatre where audience participation was rampant.  Some types of audience participation may be accepted and respected, but not nearly to the extent that the sit down and say nothing type of plays are respected. 

More liberal types of audience participation, such as choose-your-own-murder-mystery plays, are not very respected as a work of art (not necessarily entertainment), and rightly so, I think.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 08, 2007, 02:41:49 am
anyway, since this debate could go on for ages (theatre lost respect largely as a result of religious involvement in it, and then subsequently the abandonment of theatre by religion - those who appreciated the arts never lost respect for it and it was always a mark of a gentleman to dabble in playwriting.....), I just think that there should be more focus on the literary and artistic potential of the media.  The modern artist should see games as an enticing form of communication and expression in the mandated involvement of the audience and the potential in that for manipulation as it pertains to expression as opposed to an overpriced couch-carnival.

i said a few times I was never speaking of these "choose your own ending" plays and im not sure why you keep insisting on them.  of course they aren't respected!  I'll never argue that they should be.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Darien on September 08, 2007, 04:26:03 am
Where do you say that?  I honestly don't see it, I'm sorry if I missed it. (That last remark also wasn't directed solely at you, I meant as an example of extreme participation).  In any case I think they are interesting at least in comparison to games with multiple endings.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on September 09, 2007, 10:27:21 pm
is it odd to be asks if i'm bisexual or if i can lend money by people who have my msn, yet i've never even spoken too....

i guess one of the stranger sides of the internet...

no don't add me to msn, because i wont lend you money!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Zolthorg on September 10, 2007, 02:00:24 am
So are you
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 10, 2007, 02:20:04 am
This thread is now about hot erotic stories.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 10, 2007, 03:05:16 am
I'm of the opinion that everyone in the world is bisexual conditioned to think that they have an actual preference, but that doesn't mean that internet solicitations and spam are fun :P
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Frychiko on September 10, 2007, 01:28:54 pm
I haven't used a online chatting program for several years now... I'm safe from these sorts of strange questions!

I don't speak English much these days and I can feel my English getting ever so slightly worse in certain situations haha (there were a few occassions where I forgot simple words or took a while to remember them like mandarin and tree sap, maybe it's just me), writing and reading seems fine though.

A couple of days ago I realised how limited all these cheap web hosting plans are, you know the $5-15 a month shared hosting plans.. they're fine for people who have static pages or get up to maybe 2000 or so uniques a day with some sort of scripting but having more than that, and you'll quickly go over the allocated resources given to you!


Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Arachne on September 10, 2007, 01:43:56 pm
A couple of days ago I realised how limited all these cheap web hosting plans are, you know the $5-15 a month shared hosting plans.. they're fine for people who have static pages or get up to maybe 2000 or so uniques a day with some sort of scripting but having more than that, and you'll quickly go over the allocated resources given to you!
Maybe you haven't been looking hard enough. All my webhost's hosting plans allow for unlimited traffic. :hehe:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 10, 2007, 02:34:44 pm
Quote
I'm of the opinion that everyone in the world is bisexual conditioned to think that they have an actual preference, but that doesn't mean that internet solicitations and spam are fun

I think the natural state of a man is neither 'bisexual' or 'straight' or any other such signifier. These words, besides explaining one's sexual preference, also hold many secondary attributes that relate to how important they found them, how they classify themselves (which is very different a thing from what you're given to do) and generally what significance they attribute to sexuality in general. The human animal in its natural state really doesn't care about the semiotic facade of oversexuality the modern world has put on fucking, and I would say that if it were stressed out it would accept sexual activity with either gender or anything it is closeby. This isn't being 'bisexual', this is 'not caring'.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Frychiko on September 10, 2007, 02:50:00 pm
I'm not talking about bandwidth here actually. With increased traffic comes increased usage of your server's CPU and memory and database usage, and honestly you don't get much to work with. You'll easily use this up, well before you even reach reasonable traffic levels.

Some of my income comes from websites , so I can assure you I look hard enough. :)

A couple of days ago I realised how limited all these cheap web hosting plans are, you know the $5-15 a month shared hosting plans.. they're fine for people who have static pages or get up to maybe 2000 or so uniques a day with some sort of scripting but having more than that, and you'll quickly go over the allocated resources given to you!
Maybe you haven't been looking hard enough. All my webhost's hosting plans allow for unlimited traffic. :hehe:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 10, 2007, 02:55:54 pm
Quote
I'm of the opinion that everyone in the world is bisexual conditioned to think that they have an actual preference, but that doesn't mean that internet solicitations and spam are fun

I think the natural state of a man is neither 'bisexual' or 'straight' or any other such signifier. These words, besides explaining one's sexual preference, also hold many secondary attributes that relate to how important they found them, how they classify themselves (which is very different a thing from what you're given to do) and generally what significance they attribute to sexuality in general. The human animal in its natural state really doesn't care about the semiotic facade of oversexuality the modern world has put on fucking, and I would say that if it were stressed out it would accept sexual activity with either gender or anything it is closeby. This isn't being 'bisexual', this is 'not caring'.

In his natural state (care to define this?  Lack of society and language?), man would definitely be alligned to a particular sex.  The only difference here would be that since labels and prejudice do not exist, they may be more inclined to see both sides of the fence, so to speak, as being "natural", or as you put it, not caring (if they are hit on by the same sex or otherwise).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 10, 2007, 03:34:25 pm
lack of language therefore culture therefore to large degrees self-awareness, a man would have sex very often with whatever there is, both to produce offspring and to chill out. Look at monkeys.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 10, 2007, 05:45:15 pm
Not necessarily true.  And without a self-awareness, it wouldn't be right to call it "man".  This species would be run by instinct, not logic or reason.  At the same time, attraction to a particular sex would still exist since that isn't something that is learned in society or culture but occurs naturally.  Wer have no idea if sexual orientation exists in other animals, or if this particular trait is characteristic of humans.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 10, 2007, 05:46:39 pm
I do not think we run primarily on logic or reason. I think these things are subsets of our instinctual design and are not dualistically disconnected from the animal impulse.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 10, 2007, 05:50:17 pm
I never said we run primarily on logic or reason.  The self aware human, the thinking/being human is simply capable of these things.  What you're saying is, for example, a horny human sitting around without these things, would just as likely hump anything in sight as opposed to someone they'd be attracted to.  Perhaps that is the case (in his natural form), however, that doesn't mean these attractions do not exist.  Without order, society, and learned and expected behavior, everyone would be doing as they please, though perhaps without the capacity to understand why they do what they do.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 10, 2007, 05:52:07 pm
We are not talking about structure, order and society, we are talking about the natural human sexual tendency.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 10, 2007, 07:05:22 pm
you bring up a good point, i say bisexual because it refers to the notion of going with either human gender, but in a lot of ways I suppose that this is an arbitrary distinction set down also by society and that man in his nature state would most likely fail to discern the various methods of pleasure, not limited just to "legitimate" sex with another person....

there are some biological things working though; wild things all appear attracted to themselves above other things?  More likely to explore with a fellow of either closest similarity (another of the same sex) or one that complements (one of the opposite gender) ?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 10, 2007, 07:31:15 pm
We are not talking about structure, order and society, we are talking about the natural human sexual tendency.

Are you saying as a moderator we can't or that I am mistaken?  But what I was talking about ties in directly with that.  If you remove language, culture, self-awareness, and so on, man would still have a sexual attraction, heterosexual, homosexual or both.  They simply wouldn't categorize themselves as such, which you and I've already touched on.  And it's difficult to say with fact what you are stating, sincce this is something that would need to be observed.  Man wouldn't discern or categorize and label the various methods of pleasure, however, he would certainly be alligned to a certain sex (an orientation or preference if you will, however, I try to avoid the latter word as it implies some sort of thought, reason and logic).
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 10, 2007, 07:43:00 pm
why would he be so?  One would not necessarily enjoy sex with A over sex with B in the same way that he would not necessarily enjoy food A to food B, and certainly enjoying one thing would not render his taste so that it was exclusive of others.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 10, 2007, 08:22:36 pm
why would he be so?  One would not necessarily enjoy sex with A over sex with B in the same way that he would not necessarily enjoy food A to food B, and certainly enjoying one thing would not render his taste so that it was exclusive of others.

 ... what?

You don't seem to understand quite what I am saying.  It would not be exclusive, however, there would certainly be an attraction to one particular sex (as I've noted, homosexual or heterosexual, or both).  Without language, society, culture, and so on, people would have no way to classify themselves as a certain way, and there would thus be no prejudice, or discrimation against people considered different (as this concept would not even exist).  But we're talking about a laissez-faire kind of world where anything goes making it difficult to theorize exactly what would happen.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 10, 2007, 09:44:22 pm
Are you saying as a moderator we can't or that I am mistaken?

Yes you are mistaken! Why would I say what we can't and can talk about? I was underlining that the original topic was the natural human disposition towards sex, not the unnatural, societally programmed disposition towards sex. If you want to talk about the latter, initiate the conversation clearly about it, don't segue from A to B like that :)

Quote
But what I was talking about ties in directly with that.  If you remove language, culture, self-awareness, and so on, man would still have a sexual attraction, heterosexual, homosexual or both.  They simply wouldn't categorize themselves as such, which you and I've already touched on.  And it's difficult to say with fact what you are stating, sincce this is something that would need to be observed.  Man wouldn't discern or categorize and label the various methods of pleasure, however, he would certainly be alligned to a certain sex (an orientation or preference if you will, however, I try to avoid the latter word as it implies some sort of thought, reason and logic).

I believe there is a heterosexual orientation in humankind, as with most species, yes, if that's what you're getting at. I started talking about this subject mostly out of resentment towards the 'humans are bisexual by nature' soundbite which I've found (as I've explained) presupposes much more than it explains.

Quote
why would he be so?  One would not necessarily enjoy sex with A over sex with B in the same way that he would not necessarily enjoy food A to food B, and certainly enjoying one thing would not render his taste so that it was exclusive of others.

Because we're here to make babies. Primary directives and all.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on September 10, 2007, 10:06:05 pm
You guys are totally confusing me. But I do believe the topic somehow bent itself into the nature of states of sexuality. Or any other combination of big words that make me sound like a scientist.

Here's what I think: All creatures are heterosexual, if such a requirement exists (some species are lucky enough that they can do anything with anyone and still have offspring). However, sexual PREFERENCE is a psychological thing. Anyone can turn from anything to anything else given the correct circumstances. That's the crazyness of the mind that I've come to learn pretty recently. The more you're exposed to something, the more you accept it, even if you don't want to accept it. It's like when you hear that stupid goddamn pop song on the radio over and over and it makes you want to poke your eardrums out, but later the same day you find yourself humming it. In a similar way, it is actually possible to suddenly find yourself accepting a preference or fetish or whatever, that you thought you hated by nature. Turns out it's not nature's call, it's psychology. I do believe that might be able to stretch as far as to the very basics of sexuality; whether you're into guys or gals. And, of course, if something happens at a very early age, it's more probable that it'll stick. It's pretty rare for someone to spontaneously flip directions mid-life. But I do believe it can happen, and maybe even by conscious choice, although it's not something I'd like to research further...

Anyway, discrimination? Hating gays? I touched upon that. If you let yourself, you become more tolerant of the concept the more you expose yourself to it. Many people are scared of things like that, though, and don't want to accept it because they think they hate it by nature. I've reacted like that to weird fetishes some of my online friends have been stupid enough to introduce me to. I don't mind them now. Part of me wishes I could go back to hating it, because it's THAT weird, but it's too late now. I accept that stuff. And the more stuff I find myself accepting, the less freaked out I am by any eventual other stuff that I haven't yet been exposed to. I guess that's how crazy fetishes grow... The more you're into them, the easier it is to accept even weirder stuff...

Anyway. I'd consider myself openly bisexual (feel free to disagree about the "open" part though), and I know I haven't always been. It's cute to think that people are born completely neutral, able to go any way right from the start, but I don't think that happens. It is, however, very easy to start to see ounces of truth in what other people say and think. Then, some time later, you suddenly find you've gradually come to accept the sexiness of people in general, even if they're the same gender as you. That's pretty much how it happened to me. I can't remember the first time I accepted what was going on, but I wasn't THAT young. It's quite possible it started much sooner than I can even remember, though... I dunno.

Anyway, living creatures are born with the correct settings to reproduce. Occationally, some animal will make some weird choice that doesn't help at all, but then it's probably just for the fun of it or.. whatever... god, I'm finding it harder to form coherent sentences the more I type... Time for sleep...


WARNING! While I was typing a new reply has been posted! ... Eh, I'll read that tomorrow.

[edit] Oh holy crap, text...! How do I type that much and not remember what I typed afterward?! ... Sleep time! [/edit]
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 10, 2007, 11:59:35 pm
yes, there probably is something in there to drive reproduction...

i believe though that human being naturally enjoy sex nearly as much as they enjoy emotional intimacy and they'll find what of those they need from anywhere

I suppose though it's a little irrelevant to have spoken about man outside society as two people are required and two create almost as many issues as millions with regard to conformity and insecurity etc...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 11, 2007, 12:08:04 am
I do agree that men and women will seek intimacy and stress-relief in same-gender relationships just as male chimps will pick the ticks off of the fur of other male chimps and so on. Touch is a stress-relief, flesh warmth is a stress-relief, so on.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 11, 2007, 01:12:03 am
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/LordRegulus/electroplankton-creator-unleashes-win-43493.phtml

I think I will get one of these :)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: am_pm on September 11, 2007, 01:23:20 am
Wow, I would mess with that thing for hours. The way the drum machine functions, holy shit. I want one now.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: CroM on September 11, 2007, 01:46:33 am
awesome find, i heard about it, but never saw it in action.
this is very promising, but the price is way too expensive

let`s hope they mass produce it
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sharprm on September 11, 2007, 06:38:16 am
Just watched the Beowolf trailer again, only this time I realised the whole film is in 3d. Guess I'm used to everything 3d having penguins in it.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: miascugh on September 11, 2007, 09:14:57 am
Oh, the tenori-on was also presented at the Ars Electronica in Linz, my hometown more or less. That's not a name to stumble across much on the net.


And on a completely irrelevant note, I find the etymology of Beowulf kinda cute. Literally it's bee-wolf, which is what bears were called (which is one thing I actually just found out via wikipedia, after two semesters of English literature and the history of English)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 11, 2007, 12:16:14 pm
i would normally wonder about a wikipedia reference, but that one's in our notes, yup :P

interesting idea for a movie, they would have to flesh out quite a bit and cut even more to make it entertaining tho ^^
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 12, 2007, 12:09:55 am
I know I'm very late in saying this, but oh well.

While I'm hardly an anime fan, I don't exactly hate the style, but I just sorta recalled one of the things I really really really hate about anime.
That weird phenomenon where anime characters eyes just magically disappear
(http://i7.tinypic.com/6fkdnoy.png)
not the best example, but I just skimmed through the only anime I have.
it's much worse where one eye should only be partly obscured by a little bit of hair, but they just don't even draw the eye, or when a character is doing the.. menacing limp body walking towdards you thing with their head down, they almost always just have a dark shadow covering where their eyes should be
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on September 12, 2007, 12:23:56 am
Digital Fine Art:
http://www.judysuekushner.com/Artist.asp?ArtistID=1278&Akey=12345678 (http://www.judysuekushner.com/Artist.asp?ArtistID=1278&Akey=12345678)

 ::)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 12, 2007, 12:24:56 am
Digital Fine Art:
http://www.judysuekushner.com/Artist.asp?ArtistID=1278&Akey=12345678 (http://www.judysuekushner.com/Artist.asp?ArtistID=1278&Akey=12345678)

 ::)
http://www.brettgraham.tk/
I laughed pretty hard when I found his resume
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on September 12, 2007, 12:39:36 am
I can honestly say that he has assembled one of the most thorough and comprehensive lists of beliefs I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Helm on September 12, 2007, 01:07:56 am
Quote
One day, I gave up writing pop songs and almost immediately began painting.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 12, 2007, 02:37:44 am
http://www.brettgraham.tk/
I laughed pretty hard when I found his resume
What....... the hell........ was that?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Cow on September 12, 2007, 02:48:01 am
http://www.brettgraham.tk/
I laughed pretty hard when I found his resume.
Umm... is that serious? And, uhh, how did you find that?

I like the pricing, "a six hundro" and "a thousands". :y:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 12, 2007, 02:54:55 am
naw, that one's a joke
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faktablad on September 12, 2007, 03:14:34 am
TREES:  THEY DRINK WAYER AND MAKE AIR
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on September 12, 2007, 03:27:09 am
DINOSAURS: 7/10?!?

Fuck that guy.  Dinosaurs are 11/10 and he knows it.  Proof-positive that the site's a fake!

Unfuck him stat.  Fruit Mystery is the best game I have ever played in my whole life.

I'm walkin on sunshine, whaaooooooh
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Souly on September 12, 2007, 06:34:54 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc)
If you don't laugh at this kid, then your funny bone must be broken.
He's actually crying over Britney Spears...
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 12, 2007, 06:47:59 am
My turn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZBA0SKmQy8
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sharprm on September 12, 2007, 07:41:34 am
My turn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZBA0SKmQy8

I like this one better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9G2-bN1Br4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9G2-bN1Br4)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Souly on September 12, 2007, 09:47:03 am
What're you talking about...

I'm just a fedex guy.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on September 12, 2007, 11:13:24 am
Ninja Gaiden 2 announced for Xbox360 WHEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 12, 2007, 12:49:02 pm
And thats when the PS3 just lost more of its edge to the 360, soon it won't have any.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Opacus on September 12, 2007, 07:50:55 pm
And thats when the PS3 just lost more of its edge to the 360, soon it won't have any.
Well with PS3's current game line up it can't stand up against the 360 anyway :\
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faktablad on September 12, 2007, 08:00:47 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc)
If you don't laugh at this kid, then your funny bone must be broken.
He's actually crying over Britney Spears...
ROFL

...and crying.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 12, 2007, 08:54:42 pm
that's what happens when you rely on company and brand loyalty.  Newsflash sony: the world has no sense of diplomacy in they way they handle business deals or videogame purchases.  What did xbox do?  the bought/coerced the best of everything to at least be multiplatform if not exclusive, and now everyone who can only afford one system goes for the xbox because it has the most bang for your buck even if the ps3 is technically a better machine.  Nintendo stays alive by being unique but the playstation is just an old suffering bastard and the psp not worth the purchase (wii has better games, iphone has better everything else)

sad....i love playstation
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: bengo on September 12, 2007, 10:49:36 pm
Sony has only done well with the Playstation, the thing they had with the Playstation 2 that was the best was of course, the game selection, because of this it didn't need to fight the Xbox's and Gamecube's hardware, the only thing it originally had to fight hardware-wise was Sega's last console, the Dreamcast.

I don't think Sony had planned this happening, Dreamcast dying off and two more consoles coming in about a year or so after its inital release and thus because of it being out longer, was able to have a larger game library, not only that but let's face it:
SCEA made great games(Sony's weapon for when times got rough), many game series started/continued out on the Playstation 2(Which usually implies the company will stick with the console, which was what happened, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, etc.) and the Playstation 2's controller was alot better than the other consoles' controllers and the Playstation 2's price point was great(Added many people already had a Playstation 2, so whats the point of buying a completely new system when you can just keep adding on to the one you have?)

I think Microsoft saw what happened to the Playstation 2 and I believe thats why they decided to release their console early, alot of the 360's fuckups were actually pretty small but were exploited a huge amount, they probably could have prevented this by releasing it later on but they saw their opportunity. Sony's plan for the Playstation 3  what I think was basically this(They probably planned this exact same thing out for the Playstation 2, but due to the events that happened, they ended up coming out on top):
Make the hardware top-notch, while of course this should be one of the top priorities on your list, you shouldn't have to have it so powerful that the price goes up(The hardware to me seems about the same as the 360's hardware, so why there's an extra $200 on the console is far beyond me, perhaps the 6-axis controller gimmick?), make the console itself look good-looking(By this I mean, it feels like it's a rich person's console, perhaps this was intentional so people would feel like the extra $200 would be worth it) and by just getting a bunch of really good looking flashy mediocre games together(Of course, there's also the games that will be "console-only" for the system so hard-core fans of series like Metal Gear Solid will have to get a Playstation 3).

Basically, the Playstation is all look and I have a feeling thats all it ever will be.

As for the Wii, I think the Wii is going down the same path as the Gamecube, all those 3rd-party games that were supposed to be amazing ended up being terrible or mediocre, while the 1st party games are great and the whole idea of how the gameplay works is a great idea, the game selection just isn't enough.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Lawrence on September 13, 2007, 12:07:40 am
As for the Wii, I think the Wii is going down the same path as the Gamecube, all those 3rd-party games that were supposed to be amazing ended up being terrible or mediocre, while the 1st party games are great and the whole idea of how the gameplay works is a great idea, the game selection just isn't enough.

But unlike the GameCube, the Wii is a market-expansion console, so I don't think that comparison is completely valid. You never saw elderly women playing GameCubes man.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: sonic_reaper on September 13, 2007, 02:07:21 am
Bengoshia:  I just want to say that spec wise, it's difficult to compare xbox360 and ps3.  They both use different technology and in different ways.  I suppose that technically if ps3 was exploited to its limit (graphically), it would definitely come on top.  However, how expensive would that be?  Ultimately, it wouldn't be worth the developer's time or money, since they wouldn't make any profit.  I think that's a fatal error of the graphics race.  You make a console so powerful to the point where it's too expensive to even bother developing for it, at least to its maximum or close, and because the hardware is so powerful, the system itself to develop for in the first place, is already expensive as is.

Also just want to add that I think the ps3 is ugly as hell.  Looks like one of those beta machines from the 80's, with that lame grey line going through the center, and the strange dome top.  We haven't seen domes in forever.  Looks so dated.  And it's actually pretty damn big and heavy.  Honestly Sony just perplexes me with the ps3.  What were they thinking?  Did we really need a console that powerful, and thus, expensive ... ?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on September 13, 2007, 02:22:23 am
Quote
You never saw elderly women playing GameCubes man.

(http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/3443/grandmawa1.jpg)

edit:
I just noticed now that it's actually an xbox controller she's holding......ruins the whole point of posting it :ouch:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Froli on September 13, 2007, 04:12:47 am
Anyone played Lair? is the gameplay really that bad? I even read about Sony sending a guide how to review the game since known gaming sites/magazines gave it a low score.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: huZba on September 13, 2007, 05:24:11 am
(Note to self: Never mention the name of a videogame console on the internet)
That said, i'd rather have Ninja Gaiden 2 for PS3 simply because it makes less noise compared to the jet-engine like 360. Plus my 360 is slowly dying... cheap ass parts to keep the cost low... as well as stripping it off useless stuff like WLAN and selling it as a $100 add-on. Clever yes, do i find it amusing? No, my wallet is angry at 360 for hiding the costs. Otherwise i fancy all the consoles and hope none of them drop out.

@Froli.
Seems like they released Lair unfinished and broken.. too bad. Going to give it a try anyhoo.

Tried thinking of a good excuse to post this picture, but couldn't come up with anything...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/huzba/reesaangaems.jpg)
Mah new toy...mmm....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 13, 2007, 06:09:38 am
My sister's friend brought their 360 over(along with Guitar hero), and I was completely surprised by the size of the AC cord it uses. That huge box... just wow.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rox on September 13, 2007, 06:26:58 am
Yes, Lair is that bad. Not that I've played it, but I've seen it enough to know. It's such a shame. I mean, it's kinda hard to mess up a concept where you're flying a huge-ass dragon and tearing people apart and stuff. Apparently they thought it was hard to mess up, too, so they... didn't even bother making it controllable.

As for the current standings in the console wars, things are turning out exactly like I said they would. The 360 is in this generation what the PS2 was last generation. The semi-cheap one with inferior hardware but TONS of games, many of which are must-haves.

Only problem is, last generation the Xbox still had Halo, Ninja Gaiden, Splinter Cell and a few crazy awesome titles like that to make sure it could still compete. What does the PS3 have now to match what the Xbox had then? It's not looking good for Sony.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Conzeit on September 14, 2007, 12:46:36 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ruSmFFdAY FUCKING BASTARD............. >=/
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on September 14, 2007, 01:29:02 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ruSmFFdAY FUCKING BASTARD............. >=/

lol?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 14, 2007, 03:21:26 pm
what, stole your name?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Feron on September 14, 2007, 06:32:05 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfW40lyffyI
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Cow on September 14, 2007, 10:07:20 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gO_6UGJHmk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gO_6UGJHmk)

...degrading
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on September 14, 2007, 10:25:09 pm
...degrading
Good 300th post :crazy:.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Cow on September 14, 2007, 10:40:48 pm
Yay, a meaningless milestone!

...

I should post more pixel art.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on September 14, 2007, 10:55:21 pm
Hey, I was just noting it :-*.
And yes, yes you should.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on September 15, 2007, 03:48:31 pm
I think its actually impossible to pixel in Pixen.......what am I supposed to do to pixel on this god-forsaken mac!?!??!!! :yell:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faktablad on September 15, 2007, 05:32:05 pm
I think its actually impossible to pixel in Pixen.......what am I supposed to do to pixel on this god-forsaken mac!?!??!!! :yell:
Pixen is soooooo buggy on my comp.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on September 15, 2007, 05:37:33 pm
Run Windows in Parallels and use whatever you want. This is what I'd do if I ever had to use a mac.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on September 15, 2007, 06:17:54 pm
Wait, Faktablad, you're like infamous for using ms-paint colors in my book, and you're on a mac?  :o
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 15, 2007, 06:39:56 pm
it's a little bit funny I guess, but then, Ptoing usually isn't pixelling on his c64, either :P

actually on that note, did you ever get it set up to work on or is it still just there for play?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faktablad on September 15, 2007, 07:56:37 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc)
If you don't laugh at this kid, then your funny bone must be broken.
He's actually crying over Britney Spears...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiqkDm9UoKo&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiqkDm9UoKo&NR=1)
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 16, 2007, 11:23:57 am
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/TakaM/other/Baldino-avatar.gif)
was gonna be my new avatar, but I completely forgot about filesize :P
what is the limit for avatars here anyways?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ptoing on September 16, 2007, 11:32:32 am
the problem with that is the imagesize, which is 128x128 at max.

EDIT: Also, I am worked on moving pix for 12 hours straight now. Backing up the database several times, installing stuff on new server, adapting the template, getting zoom and nozoom to work and lots of other stupid stuff. AdamAtomic helped a lot but buggered off 4 hours ago. And the last 3 hours I been just sending notification emails iin bulk because all at once did not work. I prolly missed a few people, but whatever. Those who come here often enough will notice as there is a redirection at the old place.

Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: .TakaM on September 16, 2007, 12:25:12 pm
oh, I must've gotten the restrictions confused with another forum, I edited it to fit the physical limits.
but it's still 250kbs, is that okay?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faceless on September 16, 2007, 08:33:31 pm
I'm off to Italy on Tuesday, and then France, Germany, Czech, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxenberg, back to Italy, and finally Switzerland.
I expect to be completely broke when I return to the UK.
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Faktablad on September 16, 2007, 09:13:56 pm
Wait, Faktablad, you're like infamous for using ms-paint colors in my book, and you're on a mac?  :o
My personal computer is a Mac, but my family owns a PC.  :D
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Pan on September 16, 2007, 10:18:49 pm
This is soda from Pixel Joint, soda was taken, so I'm Pan here.    :n:
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: eck on September 17, 2007, 12:50:42 am
I agree with fak.  Pixen randomly just crashes, at literally, random times. Undoing things makes it lagg like mad on my computer. Also, it cant handle opening images over 256x256 without blurring the crap out of them. 

I mean really.  Is it to much to ask for a pixel editor to not jpeg stuff that you import?

[/rant]
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on September 17, 2007, 02:35:01 am
Nah man, that's not even ranting.  There should be a built in equivilant to ms paint for macs....it's bush-league.
I was going to attempt to cope with Pixen, but the second I saw it couldn't even remember the colors I chose, I became a skeptic--if a program can't store 3 values--red, green, and blue--with out messing them up, that is really sad.
It didn't take long for me to start a search for an alternative when every color got fucked up after changing one color to another--damage I couldn't undo! :yell:
It's got a built-in feedback, so I typed up a big bug report and commenced to send, and I'm greeted by a nice error message.
-it sometimes can't undo things
-crashes always.....always
-closes windows when opening other ones....especially the palette window
[/unformatted or proofread rant]
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: AdamAtomic on September 17, 2007, 02:43:25 am
haha this cracks me up, cuz one of those mac vs pc ads, the pc says "yeah well i ship with paint", and the mac guy is just not impressed....
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: So-lou on September 17, 2007, 03:44:27 am

Wow you guys are all still alive and going hard with the pixel art hey  :o
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: ndchristie on September 17, 2007, 03:46:46 am
whatever happened to all macs coming with Claris Works ?
Title: Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
Post by: Rydin on September 17, 2007, 03:52:10 am
I think they re-did it all and put it into a nice neat packaged called 'iWork '08' that's available for the low, low price of too-much-for-me.  :blind: