Pixelation

Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: madartiststan on May 05, 2007, 04:35:01 am

Title: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 05, 2007, 04:35:01 am
I know I've been going a little overboard with the WIPs  :hehe:  but I've just been pixeling like crazy ya know? So I've been working on this sort of last minute for the weekly challenge on pixel joint. And so far I'm loving my lines and loving my colors, but the design on the right side is giving me a bit of hell and I'm considering chopping it off completely in favor of something simpler and easier on the eyes. I'm going for a sort of keycard kind of look to it.

But the AA I tried on the right side REALLY failed me. :yell:  But please crit it hard so I can make it much, much better. Thanks!


(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/sebastian-charsel.png)
Title: Re: [WIP] Character Selection Menu
Post by: Terley on May 05, 2007, 01:00:11 pm
I suggest you convert one of your threads into a dump, otherwise you'll never get any crits and you'll just continue spamming this forum with new threads. try focus on one thing will ya..
Title: Re: [WIP] Character Selection Menu
Post by: madartiststan on May 05, 2007, 05:53:17 pm
Erm, good idea Terley. Thanks I think that makes sense. Could some mod possibly change the name of this thread?

Here is the menu so far:

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/sebastian-charsel-2.png)

Just got some basics down of shading and a character portrait outline.
Title: Re: [WIP] Character Selection Menu
Post by: ndchristie on May 05, 2007, 06:33:14 pm
edit the title of the first post to change the name of the thread.

not much here to crit now, but ill be back later once things are a little farther into it :P
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 06, 2007, 08:14:07 am
Just started a tree, something I've never tried before.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/sebastian-tree.png)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: philipptr on May 06, 2007, 08:51:03 am
It would be no problem to give you critique on this, but to be honest I think you should work more on ONE piece instead of starting something new every 5 hours and leaving the other stuff completly unfinished. You don't learn very much from starting something new as soon as you get problems with what you've started before
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 06, 2007, 08:55:13 am
Oh, I've been working on other things as well. :) It's jut I haven't posted much. I've been working on the character menu and trying to do something with the turtle as well.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 10, 2007, 02:50:58 am
Just taking a little break from some things I've been making, I've sort of abandoned the character selection screen as it doesn't really strike me as something that I will like in the end. So I won't put all I have into it.

Was working on a small project with a friend, for some fun and experience. Just finished drawing out this rock and was wondering whatcha thought?

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/stan-rock.png)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Elk on May 10, 2007, 08:48:38 am
make some bigger things not so small things :O my biggest piece was...huge! its like irl...if you practice drawing bigger things it takes a bit longer but the results are much better =O
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: ndchristie on May 10, 2007, 11:01:02 am
i completely disagree elk - working small teaches composition and form - you cannot afford misplaced pixels etc.

speaking of misplaced pixels, dithering is a wicked no-no at this size with your colors.  try sticking to surfaces before you think about texture.  the size will amke the picture appear relatively smooth anyway :P
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 10, 2007, 11:52:46 am
Thanks, Adarias. I originally had it that way, it's just it didn't look as good. But now it looks less...cloudy or so I think without the dithering.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/newrock.jpg)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 10, 2007, 08:53:33 pm
As well as at the request of Elk:

Image
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/bigrockinprogress.png)

Improvement Animation:
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/bigrock-improvechange.gif)


Quite WIP but still could use crits and such.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Atrophy on May 10, 2007, 09:18:32 pm
You need to extablish a light source, remove the sphere like stone parts make them more flat, and box like,
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 10, 2007, 09:23:58 pm
Just, a question out of curiosity? Have I not well established the light source is coming from the upper lefthand corner? I was just curious because it seemed really clear to me. But that is a biased opinion so, alrighty then.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: ndchristie on May 10, 2007, 09:26:08 pm
in your last post, the final stage is not an improvement.  you end up taking such well carved planes and smoothing the shit out of them so that they lose all sense of definition.  you want to work with surfaces, not against them!
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 10, 2007, 09:32:38 pm
So I take out the final WIP stage and restart with the one before it. But that's where I get stuck as I"m not sure how to shade it otherwise. I'd always thought dithering was supposed to make things look rough.  :yell:
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Helm on May 10, 2007, 09:36:31 pm
dithering adds texture. But texture without hard edges equals carpet.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 10, 2007, 09:37:26 pm
Ah thank you Helm.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 10, 2007, 10:07:35 pm
Ah, here we go. A bit of a sloppy edit, but I think this is what you meant Adarias?

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/awesomerock.jpg)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Dusty on May 10, 2007, 11:54:26 pm
I think you should just drop the segmenting of the rock all together and go for something more whole, I can't think of many rocks that form like that.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: ndchristie on May 11, 2007, 12:23:47 am
Quote from: Myself :P
here are some rock references :

http://www.pbase.com/iof/image/38388982.jpg - Australia
http://www.rsiphotos.com/images/photos/Landscapes_11.jpg i a particularly beautiful stone face in the northwestern US
http://shot2focus.com/db4/00337/shot2focus.com/_uimages/Rockface.jpg - another from the same region
http://www.cambridge2000.com/gallery/images/P22211286e.jpg - France
http://lakdiva.org/sakwala/sc_site04.jpg - Sri Lanka.  I like this mostly for the ancient carving, see how it is literally a single piece of stone?
http://mayacaves.org/files/images/chisecface.preview.jpg - not sure where it is from (mexico?) , but i really like it
http://www.me.berkeley.edu/~dcoatta/Summer2004/JoshuaTree/Fullsize/JoshuaTree-RockclimbingDan.jpg - California, US
http://www.mongabay.com/images/peru/cuzco/Train_1018_0929.JPG - Peru
http://nightglow.gsfc.nasa.gov/eric_journal_files/serpentine_gorge.jpg - Australia
http://www.donporter.net/Cuernavaca/SaltoSanAnton/RockFace.jpg - Mexico
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 11, 2007, 01:46:42 am
(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7437/awesomerockvs4.png)

As of so far! :yell: I don't know if this is an improvement or what, even at all! :yell:
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Gil on May 11, 2007, 12:27:27 pm
More contrast...
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Helm on May 11, 2007, 05:35:40 pm
what posessed you to reverse-antialias those lines with darker shades at their jaggies?
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 11, 2007, 07:07:08 pm
That's a no-no then?  :'(

I thought it looked ok. And bit smoother. Really just trying things here and there.

Now, I we have the original lines I left on my school computer. And I've tried two different things with the shading. I'm not really sure which one is looking better than the other. I'm a bit more predisposed to the one lacking the darker shades for now. But I like both.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/rockcompare.jpg)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Helm on May 11, 2007, 07:21:08 pm
You're doing fine, don't panic! Whatever program you're using though created 23 colors out of a piece that doesn't have them. Upgrade to something decent. Look at this edit:

(http://www.locustleaves.com/rockcompare.jpg)

Don't try to immitate it! Try to think why I did what I did!

Flat surfaces at a 90 degree against the lightsource (sun above) catch the most light! Any sloped surface gets less! Some surfaces cast shadows on surfaces below them! Crevices are darker as they don't catch light! EDGES get speculars because they are edges. a pockmark on the stone is dark, and the lip of the hole is lighter because it is an EDGE.

Try to think of objects in three dimensions and apply a lightsource in a definite way to the rendering. Try to think how the lights would slowly smoothly move about if you rotated the lightsource around the object.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Helm on May 11, 2007, 07:22:18 pm
holy shit what what what!!!?!?!! JPGED TO DEATH!

WHY WOULD YOU SAVE PIXEL ART AS A JPG? WHY DID I SAVE IT IN ITS NATIVE FORMAT? WHY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Crow on May 11, 2007, 07:35:41 pm
Oh hey, Helm...grats on your...uh...231 color picture :D Nice noise effect on the background haha ;)

Sera -> You should use lighter shades on the stone, not only darker ones ;o More contrast doesnt mean that you always have to get dark :]
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Faceless on May 11, 2007, 07:48:11 pm
Quote from: Helm on May 11, 2007, 07:22:18 pm
holy shit what what what!!!?!?!! JPGED TO DEATH!

WHY WOULD YOU SAVE PIXEL ART AS A JPG? WHY DID I SAVE IT IN ITS NATIVE FORMAT? WHY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Photobucket automatically converts bmp to jpeg.
That's what I'd say has happened.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 11, 2007, 07:55:48 pm
Quote from: Helm on May 11, 2007, 07:22:18 pm
holy shit what what what!!!?!?!! JPGED TO DEATH!

WHY WOULD YOU SAVE PIXEL ART AS A JPG? WHY DID I SAVE IT IN ITS NATIVE FORMAT? WHY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Wow, what an amazing edit you have helm. It's helped quite a bit! I coulda swore I saved it as a .bmp tho!   :'(
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Helm on May 11, 2007, 07:57:59 pm
If you could gather anything useful out of that butchered image, I am glad. Now let me weep more. In privacy.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Malor on May 11, 2007, 08:01:57 pm
Quote from: Helm on May 11, 2007, 07:22:18 pm
holy shit what what what!!!?!?!! JPGED TO DEATH!

WHY WOULD YOU SAVE PIXEL ART AS A JPG? WHY DID I SAVE IT IN ITS NATIVE FORMAT? WHY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Still looks awesome Helm :P

I think You're most recent update is headed in the right track. It looks alot more natural, just take your time on the shading and the peice will come out nice ;D
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 11, 2007, 08:40:32 pm
Thanks Malor. *tissue for helm*

Definitely making progress and loving it.  ;D

(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/3601/rockcompareva5.png)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Crow on May 12, 2007, 09:38:41 am
You still need some lighter colors ;o
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Feron on May 12, 2007, 09:47:44 am
Quote from: Crow on May 12, 2007, 09:38:41 am
You still need some lighter colors ;o

why??  I think it looks very good the way it turning out.  I would remove the thick black outline though.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: eck on May 13, 2007, 12:57:45 am
dunno, i agree with crow.  he needs some higlights with some decent contrast.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Ryumaru on May 13, 2007, 01:26:53 am
his version is realistic. stones dont have major highlights like that.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 13, 2007, 02:45:00 am
Thanks guys! I appreciate all the crits and such. I just got back from being at my Grans house for a day and haven't had time to pixel much.  :'( But I just started working on it some more. :)

A friend of mine suggested I use some hue shifting on the darker sections of the rock as aposed to straight grays. So here's how the rock is going so far, and a small animation next to it adding some hue shifting on the furthest rock in the middle

Image:
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/rockcompare-1.jpg)

Hue Shift Comparison:
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/somehueshifts.gif)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 13, 2007, 06:17:13 am
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/rockcompare.png)

Update Fellers
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 13, 2007, 07:36:58 am
Amagad, 3 days working on a piece. Longest I've pixeled on a piece and actually end up satisfied with a work and felt it was completed.

And here it is:

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/sebastian-rock.png)


Here's what I need, I need you guys to crit it so hard when I wake up tomorrow I'll cry.  :'( But I actually think the completion is right here so, tell me what you guys think!

[Use the 'modify' button to edit your post with small updates, thanks!  - Adam]

Lightened the middle rock top crack a bit, looks better due to light source.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/sebastian-rock-1.png)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: heyy13 on May 13, 2007, 07:53:52 am
Thats awsome, a definate improvement from your starting block. One thing of note however, is that the crack at the top top top on the big peice looks rather out of place and unnatural. But you can ignore me as i have my own rock problems. Three thumbs up. :y:

EDIT: This crack (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/heyy15/rock.gif) it just seems verry awkward. *shrugs* Just ignore me.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 13, 2007, 08:07:29 am
Like seriously, it's 4:00AM if you're going to point out crack and rock slab issues. I really need specifics cause there's about 10 + cracks and several ( obviously ) differently positioned rocks and I'm half sleep. So I'm off into the world of dreams and illusions! Later.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: ndchristie on May 13, 2007, 04:10:24 pm
when i tihnk hue-shifting, i think more something like this:

(http://xs115.xs.to/xs115/07190/Rock2.PNG)

i mean, it doesnt need to be that pronounced, but there's little point to it if it isnt even visible imo.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 13, 2007, 06:16:46 pm
Hey: Ah that crack. I thought one brought a bit more detail to a large slab I had nothing to really put on it detail wise and just lacked SOMETHING. So I figured why not throw a gigantic crack on the face of it to almost seperate it. Gives it some character I think.

Adarias: Wow. That is amazing!  :'( I've been trying to throw some different hue colors on there that have contrast but still make it look good. I thought purple would be the best bet as it's often it's own shadow but..oh well.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: philipptr on May 13, 2007, 06:50:03 pm
quick edit:
(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5017/editye3.gif)
Colours are heavily inspired by adarias' edit ;)

What I basically wanted to show with this edit is even though your cracks aren't supposed to be all smoth, you still can add some AA and clean the lines a bit to make it look better. I had a quick go over the whole piece, so I left some parts out but I guess you can see what I mean
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 15, 2007, 03:37:05 am
Argh, this must be the 100th time I've tried spriting yet, but it's a well used thing in pixeling world, and something I'd like to master. I figured starting of small with little rpg sprites would be my best bet as a beginner. I just can't get the hang of it. So after reading a tutorial for rpg sprites and a few others on SpriteArt.com. I've come to this dreaded thing.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/firstrpgsprite.png)

Do what you will verbally with it. Would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: AdamAtomic on May 15, 2007, 04:04:02 pm
lighting!!  add some.  Everything you learned doing the rocks should be applied here - people are made up of planes and curves just like stones are!
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 15, 2007, 05:31:02 pm
Currently at school, but I understand what you're saying adam. It just seems difficult to fit shading and detail into such a small piece. I'm really unhappy with the outline is general, it just seems sloppy.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: ndchristie on May 15, 2007, 06:53:23 pm
Quote from: madartiststan on May 15, 2007, 05:31:02 pm
Currently at school, but I understand what you're saying adam. It just seems difficult to fit shading and detail into such a small piece. I'm really unhappy with the outline is general, it just seems sloppy.

By many standards, your canvas is gross in size and space wasted.  Remember that you only need about 4 pixels to have an object with shading, and that includes an outline.

As far as your outline, you hit the nail right on the head.  It's sloppy.  I would stick, if i were you, to more blocky forms, since these tend to pixel better in tighter spaces, and try to go about the character with a bit of style.  Hes so rigid!.  As far as specifics, id say change the shape of the head to be less of an oval and include ears, and i would raise the wait quite a bit since the short legs aren't really helping you much, lower the eyes so that he isnt so straight-on, and drop the shoulders so that he has at least the illusion of a neck.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 15, 2007, 07:09:41 pm
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/firstrpgsprite-1.png)

Come save with updates!

Adarias: I believe I addressed the neck, and ear issue. But the balance and ( I believe ) stiffness is still bothering me somewhat.

E: Feel a bit more easy about the balance now, moved the entire waist one pixel to the right.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/firstrpgsprite-2.png)


E: I've got to stop.  :D

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/firstrpgsprite-4.png)

Now, I believe I've really addressed the stiffness issue Adarias was talking about earlier.


E: I promise I'll stop massive updating!  :'(

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/firstrpgsprite-6.png)

E: Face remake of sorts, gave the hair an outline, but the body is suffering some. So I shall rework that as well!

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/firstrpgsprite-8.png)


E: Completion I believe!

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/newsprite-1.png)

E: Grah, moved the head to the right one pixel to even it out some and make the view less odd.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/newsprite-3.png)

E: Small update: Moved the waistline up some to make it a bit more in proportions.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Graphics/newsprite-4.png)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 16, 2007, 05:55:40 am
Ok, got the complete version of the sprite up and done.

Tell me what you think:

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Portfolio/sebastian_firstrpgchar.png)


What can I say, I was interested. Can't knock me for trying! Here:

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Portfolio/sebastian-isograss.png)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: Sherman Gill on May 16, 2007, 06:14:31 am
Lightsource don't make sense.
First, it's looking a bit pillowshadey.
Theen, the highlights are on the edges of the hair, in a manner that defies the laws of... Umm... Light? While your method does provide some depth on the hair, with the lighsource, most of the hair should be lit up, not just the sides.
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 17, 2007, 10:04:45 pm
E: Editted up the rpg character some.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/thekidstan/Sebastian_Portfolio/sebastian_firstrpgchar.png)
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: fil_razorback on May 17, 2007, 11:19:06 pm
Quick edit :
(http://xs215.xs.to/xs215/07205/madartiststan2.png)

GO SIMPLER !

-You don't need that many shades. Only 2-3 per color are enough.
-Pick a damned light source ! Mine is on the left
Title: Re: Stan's Dump Of Many Things Which Need Crits
Post by: madartiststan on May 17, 2007, 11:42:41 pm
Uh, wow. What a wonderful edit fil. I love how you did it!  :o I just really want mine to look more cartoony so I left the black outline in there and everything.