Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Sharm on April 20, 2007, 08:28:11 pm
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I thought doing a platformer would be good practice, since what I really want to do is a full RPG. Now that I've started though, I'm having problems with a few things, and I would love some advice.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/SharmClucas/sewer.gif)
Latest:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/SharmClucas/sewer-4.gif)
The colors are driving me nuts, and my character doesn't fit, nor stand out from her surroundings properly. I mostly put her in for scale and to test colors, so the pose isn't going to stay. I'm just not sure how to fix it.
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I think it's because your character looks like she is going to a fashion show instead of in a dark creepy dungeon.. maybe you could give her armor or something I dunno. 0.o I guess that might not fit your game if it's actually going to be a game or just a mockup
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*laugh* Yeah, she does look like she's in a fashion show. There's a reason for it, but I'll think about doing a costume change. The sprite just looks to me like it's the wrong style or colors or something. Like it belongs in a different game. So even if I changed what she's wearing, I don't think it'd help.
Edit: Gave it a try anyway, just to see if it really was the problem I'm having with it, and it's not. Anyway, here's an update.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/SharmClucas/sewer2.gif)
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I liked how she looked so apprehensive and out of place before.. Could've made for a good scenario. She really didn't look like she wanted to be there at all.. :)
The middle of the dithering above each arch is a bit distracting I think.. I like the floor.. The wall looks a bit flat though? Could you add more variation and shadowed bricks to give it more depth? Maybe it could be darker in relation to the floor to send it further backward.
I definitely like the new ceiling colour more. Not sure what I'd do, but it's looking pretty sofar. I dont think she'd look totally out of place if there were more characters in a similar style.
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Glad you like how she looked before, because I think I'm keeping it. I'm not keeping that dithering though, it's a place holder.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/SharmClucas/sewer-1.gif)
We have our first enemy! Though what he's doing in such a watery area is beyond me. Good thing our girl has a squirt gun with an unlimited supply of water to short him out with. I darkened the background a bit too. Maybe I'll add a couple of lighter blocks here and there to break it up a bit.
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The brick bg is very distracting. I think you should move those bricks above the arches to replace the dithering and instead have the actual bg something much simpler. I like the floor and the character. The enemy doesn't seem to have the same...taste as the rest of...everything else.
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Short him out? I guess that means he's somehow electrical? At first I thought the enemy was some sort of spirit, being so near water a water spirit then. I don't know if I'm the only confused one though.
One thing to keep in mind when making platformer sprites is this: how far does the character look prepared to jump? If it's a very stylized, small, cartoony character such as Quote (from Cave Story) or Mario, one isn't surprised to see the character jump large distances, making for fast gameplay and open level design. Characters with more limited jumping have worked in platform games too, but those games are very different beasts from the run-jump-go-go-go of the aforementioned popular examples.
Even less willing to jump is a slender female wearing fashion-show clothing and a worried look. I think she looks good, but to my eyes she seems out of place simply because she doesn't look ready for action of any sort.
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/SharmClucas/sewer-2.gif)
Xion: Does this fix it? (Obviously I'll need to tweak the water trickles)
terminal_arcade: You're not the only one confused, my brother thought the same thing. Obviously he needs a redesign, but I'm not sure how to do it just yet. As for my girl who doesn't jump so well, I'd like to try and make her work, since the concept of the game is based around her. I'm not too worried about how out of place she looks as a character, as that's sort of the point. She'll be half afraid of her own attacks. Could you give me some examples of those games that worked with shorter jumps?
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I think Commander Keen is THE ultimate game that works with more complex animated shorter jumps. Try looking at the later ones obviously. CK6 for example.
Oh, and Castlevania: symphony of the night or whatsitcalled for PSone is kind of interesting...
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Thanks. I love Commander Keen, it'll be fun to check that out again. And I've enjoyed every Castlevania game I've ever played.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/SharmClucas/sewer-3.gif)
I think I've got the baddie fixed.
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I love the concept; it's interesting the way you dithered/faded out the top to go into the interface, and I admire your ambition to take on such a large piece, but I think it's suffering a bit.
The main thing is repetition: the arches, the columns, the bricks, the floor--all are very repetitive. This may be do the size you are trying to take on, which I guess you really can't do much about, but on a smaller resolution, I guess it'd be less noticeable.....and I see that you tried to break it up a bit with different colored bricks and the glowing cracks, but I still think it lacks. The simplest route you could take is to add things like ivy or cracks. Good luck in this department...
The other thing I noticed, small I guess compared to the former issue. I think that the latter could stand out more...it just blends in with the corridor.
But otherwise, a solid mock up. You could maybe do something interesting with the interface, but that's personal choice. Can't wait to see this finished.
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Rydin: monotomy is not an issue with platformer games. Try taking a CastleVania level layout and looking at it. Repetition hits even harder than here. When you're playing an action game you won't even notice this...
Can't wait to see more Sharm
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Nice progress and good work, Sharm!
Top is fractional too much, from this higher column, do they lower and divisibility is disappear. You have too much piece for top, he press down on character - lift up him (and it's not usefull area for action - just for beauty). The column do a more thick, because it's COLUMN, not a stick. Than clear from column water - now it's not inetresting decision - use the big ark (with something pattern) for similar piece. And bg do it more darkness.
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2268/sharpplatformer01ja9.gif)
You atmosphere will be more gripping... )))
And for enemy (see on my image) - now you do more better, but he look as pattern, not for a while yet. Play line on his contour - thin, thick, empty line and some aura with right dithering (I don't do this).
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Rydin: It is on the big side for a mock up, isn't it? I wasn't sure what size to do, so I looked at a few pixelated games for the pc and they were all 640x480. It allows me to put some fun detail in the character design though. I think it's a little on the boring side too. I am planning on fixing the water drips (they aren't supposed to glow) and the floor bricks and columns are going to get a little more variation in shading. I was going to try adding tumbled down sections to the wall or blocked off corridors to add something to the background. You're right, it's a lot of work, but at least it'll look nice once the character's moving around in it. I'll try to up the contrast to the ladder, it does blend in a bit much. I'm not sure what to do with the HUD. I'm going to keep playing with it.
Sorry Mangust, I'm not entirely sure what you're saying about the top. I like what you did with the arch over the water, I'll try that, and I'll darken the background. I'll play with my monster's line thickness, but I think the dithering isn't going to help. Your edit makes him look more like an ice monster.
I'll try to get a new edit up soon, but I think I'll be going slower than I was last night. Thanks for everyone's help so far.
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Is a monster liquid? If so I think it's need no sharp edges and some "transperancy" - darker spots in a middle maybe.=)
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He's supposed to be made out of lightning.
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Then make him yellow, or add yellow. People will instantly understand.
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i understood instantly...
no real crits from me other than maybe remove the black outlines?
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For top I am mean (sorry for my english) - just some up him :)
About monster - Yes, maybe change color help you, also if he is lighting, than need some light from him (dithering, transparency).
Please continue, we will be wait )))
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IT all looks so flat...
The top of the screen with the columns just looks REALLY strange IMO, I haven't actually seen any architecture like it...in a sewer? I don't know what to say about it, but I would just ditch it.
The floor tiles desolve into black far too quickly to be of any interest as well.
The background bricks need some type of texture. Bricks aren't merely some type of plastic looking material- All shiny and perfect- No. Bricks form cracks and break into pieces after many many years giving them character, making them interesting to look at. Try adding some strains to the bricks and various imperfections.
The layout of the bricks is stale as well, it looks very heavily tiled, you need to make it so one cannot tell if it's beginning or ending.
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the BG has too much contrast, and the character not enough. swap value ranges to get insteant better results, then tweek from there
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I think the central issue is that there's so much contrast between the far background and the close background without a good justification. There aren't any torches or any other light source in the foreground, so it doesn't make sense that the foreground would be so bright. The only light source i see is the electricity in the far background which suggests that everything should be very dark and back-lit with a blue glow... which would actually look very cool and make the level much more interesting conceptually.
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Thanks for your help so far, everyone. Already this would have turned out completely different without it. I'm sorry I didn't respond before now, it's been a difficult week so far, and I wanted to show some progress first. And here it is.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/SharmClucas/sewer-4.gif)
Then make him yellow, or add yellow. People will instantly understand.
I don't get it. Lightning isn't yellow, it's blue or purple. He's already got a blue aura, I'm not sure how much more of his own light he could have. Letting him have his own glow would make him much harder to program, wouldn't it? Varying the outline did him good anyway. I think most of the problems people have with how he looks will go away once he's animated. I'm going to stop worrying about him. He's now a boss (maybe a mid boss, haven't decided), which is why he's not in the shot anymore. Instead I have his little friend.
Akira: I wondered if someone was going to point out the black outlines. I probably won't take out all of them, but I'm in the process of toning it down.
For top I am mean (sorry for my english) - just some up him :)
:-[ I still don't get it. I'm sorry. And don't apologize for your english, you're trying, and you're much better than I am at any other language besides english. If I didn't fix it in this version, could you point it out in an edit?
The top of the screen with the columns just looks REALLY strange IMO, I haven't actually seen any architecture like it...in a sewer? I don't know what to say about it, but I would just ditch it.
Who said it was a sewer? I was going more for an underground aqueduct look. ;) Yeah, it's a sewer. I'm sure I've seen something similar to it in movies or something. I'm not sure what else I would do with the top if not the arches. It goes with the architecture of the rest of the building.
The floor tiles desolve into black far too quickly to be of any interest as well.
And here I thought the fade made it more interesting. :-\ Having it tile all the way off the screen looked boring to me, and I faded the large stone so it would work better with the black. As for beneath the water area, having it the lighter color made it really stand out in a bad way. This way it matches the lighting of the rest of the floor. If you have any suggestions on what to do instead, I'd be happy to try them.
The background bricks need some type of texture. Bricks aren't merely some type of plastic looking material- All shiny and perfect- No. Bricks form cracks and break into pieces after many many years giving them character, making them interesting to look at. Try adding some strains to the bricks and various imperfections.
The layout of the bricks is stale as well, it looks very heavily tiled, you need to make it so one cannot tell if it's beginning or ending.
I will be doing more with the bricks in the background. I'm just going to have to be careful about how I rough it up. What I had before was much to busy, and I don't want to make the same mistake again. I'll do a few variations on the lighter brick shapes to make it less obviously tiled. (This thing is going to be so many tiles!)
the BG has too much contrast, and the character not enough. swap value ranges to get insteant better results, then tweek from there
Wow, that really did it! I'm still need to tweak it, but it looks 100% better. Thank you.
Ben2theEdge: I really need to address the lighting issue. I'll try to have it figured out by the next update. I'll keep your advice in mind. You're right, it could make for an interesting place.
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On the topic of lightning enemies, I think your main problem is in your shading.
You have a blue centre, outlined in white, followed by a blue.
Take a look at this picture of real lightning:
http://www.moonraker.com.au/techni/lightning.jpg
The central shaft is by far the brightest part, and a solid white. The branches are much thinner, and eventually fade to blue. The offshoots of the branches, are entirely blue.
Think about how you can apply that to your enemy sprites - arms being branches, and fingers being the further offshoots. You should also refrain from using large round shapes like the head.
I also have a suggestion for the girl. At the moment she looks very out of place, which works nicely with the theme of the game, but I think that could be accented better by adding something to her design to tie her into the environment. I would suggest having her tightly clutching a burning torch in both hands, quite closely to her body - partly to provide light, and partly to make her feel safer.
On to the tiles:
You should lose the dither transition in the bricks above the pillars., as frankly it looks rather messy.
The blue, glowing lines in the wall would probably look better if they traced the gaps in the tiling, rather than have the arbitrary turning points they do now.
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I forgot to ask, which column topper looks better? I like them both for different reasons, so I'm having troubles deciding.
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Is that water leaking through the walls or 5 or so stick figure water monsters. I would suggest removing those. The bricks up the top look more like metal plates to me
becuase they line up veritcally. It would be better if they line up like normal bricks. Better still make them rounder. The stuff from her feet down looks really good. What about making light source from top right so you could get shadows in your picture?
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For top I am mean (sorry for my english) - just some up him :)
:-[ I still don't get it. I'm sorry. And don't apologize for your english, you're trying, and you're much better than I am at any other language besides english. If I didn't fix it in this version, could you point it out in an edit?
If you see closely, you already do what I mean. It's good! ))
Now it's look much better!
Which column? Hmm... I think if you choose any two - and alternation they... will be nice.
But about pattern on arch - I am not sure, maybe you think more on this?
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The way the patern on the arches fades to dark seems kinda wrong. I would have solved it kinda like this:
(http://shoba.at/images/sewer-4.png)
I think this is called a hue shift as far as I know/remember.
Currently, this whole scene kinda reminds me of Zanzarah, with the girl, which seems kinda out of place and that elemental faerie like creature. And I think sharprm is right. Some Shadows might add more depth to the scene. I kinda like the water, but those ... blue things on the wall... are they supposed to be water coming out of the wall?
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As for the water leaking through the walls, it needs a source.
Water doesn't just leak through randomly without some end of a small pipe or such sticking out of one of the bricks, draining all over the wall. Else there would be so much water on the other side of the walls, they were about to crumble.
Another difficulty comes from the fact the water veins are shaped to the old brick background (now the arches). fitting them to th new and adding source points should help fix them up.