Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Zomby138 on April 10, 2007, 03:37:29 pm
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Hello again pixellers :)
I want to improven on this as much as I can, in particular I am not happy with the sholder things for the front view, I don't think they look as good as they do in the side view :\
(http://www.reanimatedart.com/killallvegetables.gif)
don't worry about the colour of the dress, I plan to have several different pallets for it, with different parts being different colours.
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Itīs quite a nice piece here. Personaly, I donīt see anything wrong with the shoulders.
Rather the contrast, it seems a bit too much. Itīs really bright, and unless sheīs wearing a plastic dress, I suggest bringing down the contrast a bit.
As real dresses donīt hugely shine like that.
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Doesn't have to be real though, that could be some new Princess with overly-shiny clothes of such. :P
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I like the style of the high contrast, but it's a bit much. Right now it's the first thing noticed instead of the lovely art. The hair isn't washing out like the dress is. In the front veiw there are no areas of flat highlight, and in the back, there aren't any flat areas of shadow. I don't know if I'm explaning it well.
I feel sorry for this woman being that busty and having to wear a dress that doesn't support well. Ouch.
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I really like your style. I lower her left shoulder 1 pixel and shrink her left breast to make the perspective more clear.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/markusrosse/pixel/killallvegetables_edit.png)
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great start, but at least on my system the contrast is WAY high. Unless she is intended to be displayed in front of a black background I think it's a bit overboard. Good clothing and character design! For some guidance on pixeling hair, you could check out Wayuki's work, she's done some really nice stuff, I'm still learning from it.
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Yeah, the contrast is VERY high, It almost hurts my eyes o.0....I really like the idea, jsut fix the contrast. Nice start :)
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where do I find this so called "Wayuki's work" ?
as for the contrast, she's meant to look like she's under the most bright light I could ever want, so that I can work down from there with coloured lighting via a multiply-ish function, depending on the background, coupled with the fact that her dress is currentely white, has made it rediculessly high contrast. I don't want to sound like I'm making exuses but I kinda need it to be this way.
Sharm I'm sorry but I really cant make sence of what you were talking about with the hair O.o *is feeling a bit slow today* do you really think she's too busty ? I don't want it to come across as rediculess.
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where do I find this so called "Wayuki's work" ?
I have a topic right below yours. :D
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lol, oh right sorry, yes, it is amazing, although the head of hair is on a much larger scale than mine, so I don't really know how much that can help me with this :\ would you be up to doing an edit of the hair by any chance wayuki ?
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the dress should typically be as much brighter as the skin in shadow as it is brighter than the skin in light, but in the shadow, your dress becomes far darker by comparisson.
(http://www.reanimatedart.com/killallvegetables.gif)(http://xs514.xs.to/xs514/07152/Dress.png)
in all though, very nice work.
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Edit on the hair:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/wayuki/killallvegetables_edit.gif)
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wow! nice! that is awesome, thank you very much, I will study this.
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she got some big ol titties haha ;)
looks great
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she got some big ol titties haha ;)
looks great
I don't quite mind one liners that much when the art posted is great, but this kind of one liner is terrible and immature.
Anyways, I think the darkness 'inside' her dress should be darker than the shades being used outside, instead of the same. Gives a weird sense of depth. Also, her eyes look crooked.
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I quite like this (especially after Adarias' edit) but I think you really need to work on the lighting, and form of her left leg - the boot in particular.
I also think the legs could do with some outlining.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/wayuki/killallvegetables_edit.gif) (http://www.locustleaves.com/killallvegetables_edit2.gif)
edit of the edit of the edit. Here's why pixel art is more complicated than it looks.
You're working very methodically. You have three shades for this and for that, you put the light shade on the dark shade and you buffer with the midshade. But shapes may require the usage of the midshade as the main shade. And palettes can share colors which could work on more than one context. Colors in the same ramp may share hue and value, they might not. Mixing things up might lead to good things.
The breasts were verging on ridiculous in my opinion. Especially on the first view (the one I didn't edit). Gratuity just offends me not because I can't deal with big breasts (there's real women with huge breasts out there) but because this isn't a woman. This is a video-game sprite, and as such it is an outlet for some semiotic content which is very stylized and selected by the creator of the artwork. When I see a real woman with big breasts, I am looking at a whole person with innumerably many and unfathomably complex signifiers. When I see this I see 'figher sprite' 'pixel art' 'huge boobs' 'elaborate dress'. That's pretty much it. So yeah, in this context, the boobs are kind of meh. If you had drawn a more realistic human female (not an anime face, wearing clothes that I could connect with something else than an anime) I could take the bigger boobs easier because they'd just be part of a personality. As such, they're there inspite of a personality, especially with that blank non-emotive face you had going in the original. The face is an anime face but could be made to be an anime face with more character, so as to emote better, I feel. I tried. Excuse that she's looking at the viewer with kind of a condescending look, that's where the edit took me.
The forearm was huge, perhaps.
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Wow, this is pretty good. Also like how people are coming out of the wood work with their edits. To be honest, this piece, including all other edits, seem to make the character flat. The dress itself shows no depth, at least in my eyes. I understand that there is a light directly above her shining down, but that still doesn't mean that all parts of her dress will be completely lit up. In fact, when light hits something, it reflects off, and immediately becomes weaker when bouncing off non-reflective surfaces. In this case, the above light source has to hit the head, shoulders and boobs first. These body parts should shadow over the other "layers" of her body below (hope that made sense...). Any who, I had my go at it, to describe what I'm trying to get at:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n118/TheBoBslow/pixeljointstuff-4.png)
Now I know you didn't want the dresses style to change, but I felt the narrow rims on the outer helm was too boring. Ladies need flare, ya' know. So I decided to add some ruffles to the dress. I also decided to give her some breast reduction surgery, as dem' burbs' were spilling over. Changed the eyes and hair a bit also. Obviously, it's not a fairly good edit, but I just wanted to get the point of depth across. If it's too much of a style thing, than ignore this edit all together. All in all, though, great work. Can't wait to see this done...
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hi, thanks bob and helm for the edits. I'm really surprised about how everyone is reacting to the boobs, I really didn't think they were that big, certainly not big enough to warrant a short essay on aesthetics.
@ helm first. I need to keep my different ramps separate and not use colours from different ramps in different parts of the sprite so that alternative ramps can be chosen for the hair or skin without messing everything up, so I can't really mix things up like that, everything I do seems to be really methodical, you're right, I guess that's what you get for being a mathematician.
I find it very interesting that you look at her and see "fighter sprite", what about her makes you think she's a fighter ? I sure wouldn't expect her to be throwing punches, and she's definitely not stood in a fighter-sprite "stance" or anything.
I never really set out to make her an anime character either, as digital painter I've always done a psudo-realistic-ish style, and never anime, the methodical cell shading style that I seem to have adopted for this kinda led me to it I guess... that's the first face I've ever put on a sprite btw, I really didn't (and still don't) have a clue how I would have gone about making it look non-anime, I guess it wouldn't fit in with the cell shading style I have going on (which I want to keep btw, as it is very easy to do and as such will speed things up no end when animating, considering that animating will be the main thing I'll be doing when things get moving, no pun intended).
@ bob. I am infact up for design suggestions for the dress as well as technical things, and I really like the ruffles you added, I think they look great, although I worry that having something like that might be biting off more than I could chew for when it comes to animation, also you have definitely improved on the lighting/form, I will be trying to improve on that in my version. I'm surprised you both think the forearm is too big, we'll see about that. I quite like what you did with the hair as well, although I think you've used the most light colour more than I would have done.
thanks a lot for your time and edits :)
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I need to keep my different ramps separate and not use colours from different ramps in different parts of the sprite so that alternative ramps can be chosen for the hair or skin without messing everything up, so I can't really mix things up like that, everything I do seems to be really methodical, you're right, I guess that's what you get for being a mathematician.
I think the benefits of color shifts are so few as compared to an interesting palette going on that I would suggest manually remapping the different palettes you need by hand, and not having hue-switchable 3-color ramps. It doesn't take too much time, and it looks much much better.
I find it very interesting that you look at her and see "fighter sprite", what about her makes you think she's a fighter ? I sure wouldn't expect her to be throwing punches, and she's definitely not stood in a fighter-sprite "stance" or anything.
What else could she be? It's the physique, the costume, the boots, the flat planar, everything, really. if she didn't have shoulderpads, has a uncut dress, was wearing shoes that fit a regal dress, wasn't taking eyes out with her nipples, wasn't color-mapped for hue-shifts for player 2 she could be a princess in a different sort of game, perhaps.
I really didn't (and still don't) have a clue how I would have gone about making it look non-anime,
It is difficult, but doable. If you want an edit I'll try. I'll probably end up taking away facial features because in that size a single pixel is just too much for a nose or whatever especially if we're talking high-contrast that celshading has, which burns out a lot of detail.
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making it look non-anime
Maybe something like that would work?
(http://www.foolstown.com/misc/face.gif)
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The chin is too strong in the right sprite, I think
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well, she's not meant to be a figher sprite :\ what do you think I can do to the boots to make them more regal looking ? the sholder pads are a late addition, I added them in an attempt to make it look more like a big regal dress, I am suprised they make you think she looks more like a figher.
well anyway, here's an update.
(http://www.reanimatedart.com/killallvegetables2.gif)
mostely the hair is what I think I have improved the most, I have changed some of the shadowing on the dress to try and make it all look more 3d. I changed a few pixels of her face, nothing major. I even reduced her boobs by about a pixel.
[edit] wow thanks fool, that is very interesting indeed, I might try to so something along those lines [/edit]
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well, she's not meant to be a figher sprite :\ what do you think I can do to the boots to make them more regal looking ?
well royalty would not wear boots with such a dress. And a properly trained princess whatever would not stand like that, I feel. And the dress would not have a cut in it, more or less signifying a straight-through metaphorical entrance to her much guarded womanly features... it's just game-sprite-ish, you see what I mean? The left sprite doesn't suffer from most of these 'issues' through obstruction.
It comes down to what game-world this sprite belongs to, obviously.
Edit:
anime videogame fighter sprite: (http://www.locustleaves.com/killallvegetables_edit2.gif)
semirealistic princess: (http://www.locustleaves.com/killallvegetables_edit3.gif)
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it's interesting seeing it closed fronted, I might try something a bit like that later on today. right now I need to do some revision for my final exams which are in a month. at the moment, if I close my eyes I see pixels, I need to get myself to a state where if I close my eyes I see mathematics.
I'll try and do an edit tonight.
do the boobs still offend you in my newer version ?
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hehe sorry if this all comes as 'oh my my delicate sensibilities'. I felt aesthetic concerns should be adressed, sorry if I'm out of line, given how this is mostly for pixel critique.
I cannot see newest edit, I am not ignoring your progress. Your host seems to be down, for me at least.
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That's very strange, there sever is definitely up at the moment, can you get the original post to load ? (with a ctrl+refresh)
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Uhm, Helm? I can see the new edit just fine. I think it might just be on your end...
The newest edit looks much better. Now we're starting to see some depth, within the dress. And I don't think you're offending anyone with the large breasts. It just gets kind of tiring seeing most women characters with huge boobs, and tiny waists. I'm guessing by the time she hits her 40's, she's going to be having some major back problems, and 'dem burbs' will be sagging and dragging along with her feet.
Heh, but seriously, the design is ok. It's just something that we've seen too many times before. I do like how this is coming along, though. Are you going to show us exactly what colorful designs go with the dress when you get back from the exams?
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nope still can't see anything on reanimatedart.com
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Speaking as someone who has been doing pixel art since around '92 on my old miggy, I must say that you've got a very impressive style going on here. The linework is solid, the shading is more or less spot on, and you've given her an interesting, provocative pose. That said, I have to agree with Helm that while you've given her an interesting pose, it's not really something befitting a princess. I also agree that the split front all but destroys the image of regalness you're working so diligently to present here, because a Lady (big L) would:
a) have one of those under-frock things below the dress with ruffles all the way down past the knee
b) be wearing slippers or something of that nature and
c) never ever allow someone to casually look up her dress at her goodies.
I cannot see your new version either, but I will be happy to provide an edit of some sort to address a few of the minor issues I see keeping this piece from perfection. Great work, really, and awesome effort on the shading!
-ProgZ
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why does everyone assume she's a princess ? I had dame or perhaps duchess in mind.
the revision is going great btw, :P basically I've been hanging around the forum. seriousely though, I need to get down to some, stop distracting me!
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Hmm, these comments may be coming a bit late. Maybe I should have visited here last night as well.
Sharm I'm sorry but I really cant make sence of what you were talking about with the hair O.o *is feeling a bit slow today* do you really think she's too busty ? I don't want it to come across as rediculess.
I just wanted the hair to match the shading on the dress. I did a quick edit. I happen to like the flat style.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/SharmClucas/edit.gif)
I like the edit on the bust, it's much less.... ouch. The dress is holding her in a little better than it was before.
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I have an update now.
(http://www.reanimatedart.com/killallvegetables3.gif)
not particulaly happy with the new thing inside the skirt, but I want to try and do something more interesting than just closing it up.
I'm actually quite pleased with the face now, I think, I might change my mind about that later, haven't decided yet.
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To be honest, I think that the frilly inner skirt thing looks horrible, and that the extra detailing you've added to the bodpiece is just messy.
The expression on her face looks better, and I like the extra segments you've added to the outside of her dress.
This feels weird to say, but I'd disregard Helm's comments in this thread. Who gives a flying toot about real world customs or social graces? The original design was more interesting. Why be modest when with art you can be bold?
Actually, I think whilst everyone else is busy editing this thing, I might as well make one of my own.
Watch this space. :P
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Why be modest when with art you can be bold?
Why understand where I'm coming from when you can construe my point and offer a directionless generalization at the same time?
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I made this edit before you posted yours, but anyway...
This is somewhat like what I was getting at, only I didn't spend nearly enough time on it and the colors probably look awful. The main things I did were:
1. Added a pinkish dress under the canopy dress. Typically women would have 4-5 dress bottoms under the canopy outer dress thing.
2. Raised her boobs up. Bodices and such typically bind and raise boobs up to give them lift and make the woman appear more chesty and voluptuous.
3. Adjusted her face a bit just for the heck of it. Your latest edit looks fine in that regard, though.
4. Made some really quick and dirty slippers!
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/killallvegetables2a.gif)
Anyway, if this is a duchess as you say then I would certainly consider concealing her legs to make her more regal.
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can you see the update this time helm ?
[edit]
sorry Prog, you must have commented while I was writing mine, interesting edit, Faceless is right about the underskirt thing, I dunno what I was thinking, I'll be changing that, possibely to something more like what you have there, not sure, gunna try a few more things first.
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Yeah magically all the images work again. I like the new edit lots. Have you tried pulling the legs together in a more conservative stance? It wouldn't be too difficult an edit to attempt just to see how it looks. Tell me and I'll do it if it's a boring proposition. While I feel progz' addition is a bit clashing with the monochromaticism going on in the sprite, it does raise a valid proposition potentially, if you made a coplementary ramp and added a second color to the dress. perhaps, just to break it up as a design.
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ultimately I'm planning on dividing the dress up into either 2 or 3 ramps as it is, I haven't quite decided what parts will be what, I've tried a few different things.
really bad way to work I know, I'm regretting this poor planning already.
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While I feel progz' addition is a bit clashing with the monochromaticism going on in the sprite, it does raise a valid proposition potentially, if you made a coplementary ramp and added a second color to the dress. perhaps, just to break it up as a design.
Definitely. The more I look at the colors I chose the worse they look! A secondary shorter dress about midway above it with a different design would add to the depth, I think.
I edited the original to a color scheme that hopefully looks a bit less horrid.
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Well, if anyone was going for a realistic portrayal of a royalty-related female (whatever rank), the stereotype pretty princess like thing wouldn't really work, as most of them were butt-ugly, fat and pale.
But seeing that this comes from some invented fantasy thing, I think it would be alright to take it with a pinch of salt.
What I would recommend is to design clothes and accesories putting priority on usability (if that makes sense) Make a reason why she is wearing something, and not just "because it looks pretty" (thing that square enix fails to understand IMO).
As for the underskirt thing right now all the attempts don't work that well, maybe you could just mask it with adding another set of folds instead.
As for the colors, I would go with something less muddy and instead make them more vivid. The sprite has already a small face/body, so a key thing would be readability, and right now it kinda fails to do so since many colors blend together.
A more interesting palette mixing tints would be neat. (Of course it would vary depending on where you are, your surroundings and light sources, but it makes it look more interesting overall, than just a ramp)
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Here is some kinda update.
(http://www.reanimatedart.com/killallvegetables4.gif)
got a bit of colour in there this time, don't think of the purple as final or anything, there will be many pallets anyway, as I've said.
I think I might want to do more with the gold trim stuff, or I might want to loose it altogether.
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Vast improvement. I really like the purple too, matches well with her blond hair.
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This, this is nice. The ruffles in the front now look much better, the face is less anime-ish(thank God), and the addition of the outter folds to dress is wonderful. Maybe some old time gold designs along the outter rims of the dress would make it stand out more. Breast reduction is muchly appreciated. One think is bugging me though; for some reason, the top-most layer of the dress seems out of perspective than the mid layer. It's hard to say without actually point out what I'm talking about. Other than that this looks great!
(brownie points for using me favorite colors Purple and gold. Royal colors for the win!!)
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Wow, that looks really great. Love the gold trim, and I really love that underskirt. Now that the dress isn't washed out, her skin and hair being washed out is even more obvious. I'm pretty sure it's the bust that's out of perspective. Her left side should be a little higher.
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(http://www.reanimatedart.com/killallvegetables4.gif)
The inside layer of the dress looks too straight to me, and causes all sorts of perspective issues.
Hopefully this will be helpfull:
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3782/dresszk3.png)
Edit:
I should probably add that I don't think her front foot should be extended so far away from the one she's putting her weight on. It looks odd now that she's wearing a proper dress.
2nd edit:
Now I'm saying the same things as Helm. :lol:
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With that feet positioning, looks like she's gonna fall backwards. The left foot should almost disappear behind the dress, being moved left, and the right foot should take a more central position, almost aligned with her head. Also, she has man feet :) They should be smaller methinks.
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I still think your remapping concept is outmodded and flawed, and leads to worse art than if you remapped by hand. You right now have 24 colors, with a lot of redundants, a lot of near blacks, two near-whites, where you could have a 16 color palette, going through the whole spectrum and being pleasantly unifed instead of segmented per-item 'three colors for the bracelet, three for the tiara'.
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the remapping concept without a doubt will lead to worse individual frames than using a pallet specifically designed for one colour scheme, I've given myself different rules however, and I want to stick to them. If I was doing a one of picture then I would definitely do it your way, but, as making game art dictates, often you have to play by more restrictive rules.
today I am moving house, to a place without the internet :\ I will be able to get online on campus only, and I will have a lot of maths to do.
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He does have a point in that aspect. remapping is perfect for still art, or more indulgent game art. You can't,however, always sacrifice functionality for personal preference. I do like the piece, overall, and the stance is actually nice in that it offers a little more character to a piece that could have easily become bland and boring. ( i mean, how many puffy-dressed princesses are out there? At least this one's got a little bit of fire in her).
Nice start, zomb.