Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Ryumaru on March 27, 2007, 01:13:50 am
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29 minutes. msp.
inspired by monsoons contribution to the recorded pixelart thread. seems im not quite there yet :/
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1040/speedto0.png)
comments welcome.
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Those lips just don't end like normal lips, they look like 2 sausages amounted... :P
The rest looks good, needs finishing :)
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The segmentation of the nose is quite odd looking. And you should have probably used an extra shade to smooth out the brightest one. High contrast+dithering is usually not a good combo.
I dare you to sprite something blue. :yay:
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Nice! I love the colors! I think it will look good when the whole head is drawn completely out.
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I'm not sure if you were going for anatomical correctness or not. Even if you weren't, there are definitely some things that look sort of off, even with the exagerration. Here's an edit, to show what a more anatomical face would look like.
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1040/speedto0.png) (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Faktablad/edit01.png)
Nose oddly shaded--checked a ref
Nose too big, even for an old man--trimmed it
Lips too sausagey--puckered them a bit
Chin massive--more trimming
Forehead too short--elongated it and shaped out the skull
Eyes too high--brought them down
Perspective issues with the nose (appears to be facing outward)--cleaned that up
Yellow too bright--toned it down a tad, then added white.
I personally wouldn't totally match my edit, since who needs realism? Still, try to distinguish which anatomical changes were from intention and which were from habit. ;D :y:
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thankyou for the edit faktablad. its enought to make me continue the piece when i get the chance.
all anatomical changes were from intention as i havent drawn any faces from my mind to inherit habit of any sort. but some of the things in your edit i find more apealling anyway :]
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Cool. Glad I could help. :crazy:
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Ah I really like how this is looking. I'm not sure if you plan on finishing the rest of the head, or leaving it as it is since it was a speed paint. I hope you continue on with it though because it looks awesome. I actually prefer Ryumaru's original compared to Faktablads (No offense, personal preference). Even though his is more anatomically correct, I like the exaggerated style. Only crit I can give at the moment is aimed at the original if you plan on working on it. The nose seems to be slanting toward our screen instead of pointing out infront of him. Anyway, goodjob.
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all anatomical changes were from intention as i havent drawn any faces from my mind to inherit habit of any sort.
I'm not sure what this means. Study bone structure, fiber structure and skin on faces, it's one of the lifelong passtimes of artists to draw faces until they get them correct-looking. Break anatomy after you've got a handle on anatomy.
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all anatomical changes were from intention as i havent drawn any faces from my mind to inherit habit of any sort.
I'm not sure what this means. Study bone structure, fiber structure and skin on faces, it's one of the lifelong passtimes of artists to draw faces until they get them correct-looking. Break anatomy after you've got a handle on anatomy.
He's saying he intentionally ("from intention") messed around with the anatomy, and that it wasn't a result of bad habbits. He then presented the fact that he doesn't draw faces as evidence that it can't have been a bad habbit that he'd picked up somewhere.
I agree with Helm (are you sure you didn't understand what he said?).
To expand upon what Helm said, it's through doing this sort of thing - before you have a firm foundation - that you develop those bad habbits you claim not to have.
So save yourself some trouble, and don't develop them. :P
Bye.
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I agree with Helm (are you sure you didn't understand what he said?).
I had an idea but the quote was vague, so that was my way of asking him to elaborate on the statement, as well as the relevant point I wanted to make in the case it was pertinent.
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faceless: haha, i wont develop them then. for this piece though they will stay, i would only go for something extremely anatomically correct if pixeling was the only art i did. why cant i have my little bit of fun in pixelart and leave all the proportions, angles, relations and etc for traditional art?
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why cant i have my little bit of fun in pixelart and leave all the proportions, angles, relations and etc for traditional art?
I dunno... because posting here means you want to become better at pixel art?...
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so shouldnt the focus of the critique be near exclusively on pixel tech unless there are such glaring issues with the piece non pixel wise that they need to be addressed first?
thats what faktablad did and ill try and post an udpate soon. i dont think any more needs to be said about the whole" realistic first, then distort"
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Perhaps some would feel so. I find the extremely odd facial structure and anatomy distracting to the degree that it would come first, yes. When you look for example, at Mia's avatar, you won't complain about anatomy because it's very clear he's using light and form adeptly to create his otherwise completely unreal piece of work. But I see yours and whereas the pixel tech isn't wrong or anything, you don't seem to grasp even the volumetrics of a human face yet, let alone purposefully distort them. I think it's a cop-out, this whole 'I am not trained, therefore I have no bad habits' thing. Not being trained is a bad habit, and defending ignorance is a bad habit. I would suggest studying facial construction and anatomy extensively, then reworking this piece until it's significantly more in control.
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I have found that many honest people have done drawings which are very distorted who care not for what is correct and therefore produce pieces which are visually interesting. The majority of these are people who already have a strong background in realism, but there have been outliers. The people who tend to say "Im not going for realism so don't tell me" tend to be people who are perhaps subconciously insecure and try to cover up inexperience with arrogance, but again, sometimes there are people who really just for one peice are not concerned.
I have also found that the majority of people who go on about how you must know forms to distort them (a popular remark) are about one year into their schooling (or even before) and are vomiting back up their professor's words without though and often without usefulness, merit, or even sometimes understanding, and they are throwing ti out there not for the benefit of the artist or the piece, but so they can pat themselves on the ass for knowing better, others though are genuine and think that the advice is proper and well-suited to the topic.
Chris - you are still early in your process but you already have a very strong grasp of greater anatomy. everyone here knows that you are very conscious of form and anatomy. you also say that you haven't truely studied the forms of the face. Some things im sure - the exaggerated chin for example - are purposeful distortions, but if you don't have a strong foundation, do you really know what all is on purpose and what is lack of understanding?
Because you so often concentrate on accuracy and we talked about how you were trying to pixel quickly - not draw accurately, im willing to believe that this is one piece where you simply put aside your typical aims in favor of trying to put out good pixel technique quickly. the fact that you have not recieved many crits on that aspect means that you achieved your goal much more than you thought earlier, which brings me back to our discussion about not hating your work :P
Helm - we all know you have a lot of experience and I agree with your words here, that the underlying principles are not developed. However, i would say that this piece is the exception to the rule, which is that ryu is typically well-focussed on the important things.
Basically that was a long-winded way of saying that you both make good points and could listen well to each other.
From what you've said ryu this piece has probably gone as far as it will, and should you be lacking inspiration i would strongly encourage your next piece be a study of the structure and form of the human face, both to help your own goals and to help the rest here settle :P
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oh wow i didnt mean to cause such a discussion, with the authors im sure itll be an interesting read. until i do though, heres an update:
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2496/speedig5.png)
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Helm - we all know you have a lot of experience and I agree with your words here, that the underlying principles are not developed. However, i would say that this piece is the exception to the rule, which is that ryu is typically well-focussed on the important things.
There's a lot of users on this forum that I've watched and tried to help since their very beginnings here and Ryumaru is one of them, so I think I'm quite intimately in understanding of his progress and more importantly his shortcomings. I think Ryu has placed a lot of attention to the male anatomical physique sure, but in a very strict environment that would potentially hurt him in the future unless he branches out. Namely, the cyclopic being in a dark bakground. He's done many, many variations of that, and they've been getting better but I'd be really glad to see him draw a woman on a couch or a cat playing with a ball or someone picking up the phone or two young lovers making out on the hood of the boy's car in midnight or whatever. Not more cyclopean beings with bulging muscles, outstretched or in an idle pose.
So when he does something new, namely a human face, although it's still red and in a dark background, I take a personal interest in encouraging him to work it until he grows, not just hid behind excuses like 'I don't care for realism here'. You say Ryu works the forms and anatomy much and this is an exception so it's okay it's not 'realistic'. I say it's the first time after his avatar where I see him draw a human face and I know how shit-scary it can be to tackle something new, and how the first impluse is to abandon and go back to drawing in your comfort zone. I once said "I'll never draw girls in my life!" after such a preliminary - and hilariously failed - attempt. So what Ryu needs to hear is not comforting words. He should be applauded for trying new things - and human faces are some of the msot important things to learn to draw - and at the same time pushed to do it do it do it again, more, better.
About the truism 'master the form before you break it', I'm rather suggesting 'have a comparatively okay control over form before you break it more than you already do subconsciously' which is a moderate statement that doesn't require me to be of any particular skill-level to suggest as a good method. How long I've been critiquing or drawing is irrelevant and I do not like ti see it being mention in the same breath in which we're discussing artistic critique. If pixelation has taught me one thing, it is how people who might not be good artists sometimes have suprizingly sharp eyes for critique. I don't take a lot of pride as an artist, but I do like to think I've got a sharp eye for critique.
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ryu, two crits. First of all, eye too close to nose. Second, wouldn't you say under the lip it wouldn't catch much light, given the position of the lightsource. Look at it as a geometric primitive.
(http://www.locustleaves.com/speedig5.png)
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Ryu - good update. Can't wait to see the next one :P
helm makes some good points in his drawing - pay particular attention to the regions near the mouth, how the skin falls around it, and also to the eye socket - how the crest fo the bone pushes out from the skull before offering up the weak temple.
Helm - IMO experience is a testament to one's ability to think and critique from their own thoughts, not those of others. Chris seemed a little dismissive in a previous post, so I ment nothing other than that you have a long track record of offering personal, genuine critique, and that your advice was far more than the secondhand rhetoric many might offer.
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thankyouthankyouthankyou for that edit, helm. google search for lips produced nothing but women lips with no form anglular forms whatsoever.
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also, to humor your words helm, heres a profile that ive started. very early on but just thought id show now
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8850/profilehp4.png)
based off of myself but im not trying to achieve a likeness.
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quite nice. eye too close to nose, ear waaay too high, but otherwise promising. I do suggest more contrast in the palette, see no reason to try Kon's way of coloring on this one.