Pixelation

Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Generic on March 10, 2007, 09:37:16 pm

Title: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on March 10, 2007, 09:37:16 pm: Hello everyone, I'm new to pixelation and thought I'd post something I just started working on to get some help hopefully. First of all, this is my first time ever trying anything like this. I'm mostly looking for help with how to shade the mountains to make it seem like it's covered by hundreds of trees. I also need help with what to do with the sky (the gradient is a place holder for the moment). And I'm not liking the contrast between the cliff and the rest of the scene. Any help at all will be greatly appreciated. Feel free to edit it all you want.

(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9780/forestpo1.png) (http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/917/forest2di3.png)(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7193/forestvy5.png)
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Serena on March 10, 2007, 11:15:11 pm: Oh man... mountains! I've totally struggled with mountains.... so I made a little a little mini-tute. First though, try to remember that mountains are shaped sort of like jagged pyramids connected together, not like cones!

1. Draw the peaks.
2. Decide your light source.
3. Draw some natural-looking zig-zags down the peak as guidelines for shading. Fork them now and then.
4. Using the light source as your guide, shade on the opopsite of the guides. Make the shading gradually lighter (I used gradients, you can dither) as you reach the next guideline.
5. Repeat this technique with smaller lines to add more details.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sererena/mountain.jpg)
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Ryan Cordel on March 11, 2007, 12:46:44 am: You should definately continue on, while taking the advice of the above post. I really like the atmosphere in that picture, it actually kind of 'pulls' you in.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: AdamAtomic on March 11, 2007, 03:06:55 am: hey serena that's a great post, i'll add my old explanation pic as well:

(http://adam.lastchancemedia.com/sprites/mountain_edit.png)

generic - you have the right idea with your rocks, just apply the same thinking to the mountains!
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on March 11, 2007, 09:55:24 am: Wow thanks for the help guys. The pictures helped a lot because I'm more of a visual learned. I tried what both of you said about the shape, and the shading of the mountain. I think the shape turned out a lot more realistic looking, however, I think the shading looks really bad. If anyone can tell me what I'm doing wrong, feel free to do so.

(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8810/forestkl6.png)
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: AdamAtomic on March 11, 2007, 06:20:10 pm: hey that's definitely an improvement, but it is still pillowshaded - don't be afraid to let dark colors butt up against light colors, that is what will create the geometry of your mountain!
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Serena on March 11, 2007, 08:55:45 pm: Ditto to what AA said... with regards to my example, you only want to dither/gradiate on one side of the block of color, buy mountains are so jagged, you can choose not to dither at all, instead using pointy shapes like AA showed in his example.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on March 11, 2007, 09:50:39 pm: Alright let's see how this looks. I think it looks a lot better than my previous one, but it still doesn't look that great. I'm wondering if I should use another lighter color to make it stick out more. Any help welcomed.

(http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7783/forestfj7.png)
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Serena on March 11, 2007, 09:57:35 pm: Wow, that does look a lot better! Not to confused with other techniques, but here's a cool pixel of a mountain range I found, maybe you'd like to look at it:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/27271789/
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: khorin on March 11, 2007, 10:00:03 pm: My first edit woo!

I thought one little area needed to be lightened:
(http://shizucor.com/images/edit.gif)

Are going to keep that outline on the mountain?
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on March 11, 2007, 10:04:30 pm: @Serena - Wow that looks so much better than mine. I'll definately use that for reference. I was also looking for a good picture for when I go to put in clouds and that is perfect. Thanks a lot.

@Khorin - Oh that makes it stick out a lot more, thankya. I'm still debating what I should do with the outline, but for the moment it's just a place holder. Have any suggestions>
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: khorin on March 11, 2007, 10:28:00 pm: Here's a picture I took when I was in the Philippines. It's not a great picture but I think it should help you out. I would especially pay attention to the mountains farther away. Do you notice how they become lighter and fuzzier? Using a light bluish color for the sky would probably make the mountain stand out without the outlines.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on March 15, 2007, 03:56:35 am: Alrighty sorry for the lack up updates but I've been a bit busy. I tried to make my picture look more realistic like the photo you took Khorin. I'm pretty confused on the texture I'm trying to use on the closest mountains. I want it so you can see the clusters of trees more clearly since they are closer. I also need some help on not making the middle mountain stick out so much. And I'm not too sure about my clouds. Thanks for the help everyone.

(http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/649/forestnh7.png)
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Noveroth on March 15, 2007, 04:01:46 am: Wow, that's turning out good, I recomend adding a bit of texture and maybe a rock or two on the plateau.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on March 15, 2007, 04:06:32 am: Thanks. And I plan on adding more texture to the plateau, that was my next step hopefully. I think I might change the palette of it too because I think it stands out a bit too much. Thanks for the advice.

Edit - I forgot to add in Khorins lighted area of the mountain. It'll be included in the next update :] .
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: khorin on March 18, 2007, 08:57:50 pm: Ooh I missed this updated. You've applied atmospheric depth quite well. Good job! Keep it coming!
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: That One Guy on March 18, 2007, 11:53:17 pm: I think you should add little patches of grass that kinda trains off into the side of the mountain's rock.. Not really sure how to explain it, but it could look pretty neat.

Good job on the piece so far, I have no crits that anyone's already said.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on March 19, 2007, 01:40:47 am: Thanks Khorin and One Guy. I tried to do what you said about the grass on the rock but it turned out really bad in my opinion. I can't seem to get it to blend in with the rock no matter what I try.

(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1666/forestgg0.png)
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: rougewisp on March 19, 2007, 01:43:51 am: Maybe if you added in some nondescript flora? Something that sticks out from the grass stubble around it to give it some flavor.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on March 19, 2007, 01:47:53 am: Oh duh. That'd be a good idea. I completely forgot about adding any flora. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on April 06, 2007, 10:55:47 pm: Decided to go back to this today while I had a bit of freetime and try and change the feel of it a bit. I plan to add some subtle lightbeams shining through the clouds. I still haven't fixed the grass or added flora to the cliff's edge. Focusing on the clouds at the moment.

(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6463/forest3xv0.png)
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: sharprm on April 07, 2007, 03:26:44 am: The clouds look pretty good and stormy. Well done. I think the perspective on the top of the cliff in the foreground is off, unless you're deliberately doing that (like its an rpg type thing).
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on April 07, 2007, 07:04:03 pm: Actually I was planning to add a small isometric man standing on top the cliff looking over the horizon. However, the more I look at the cliff, the less I like it. It seems to just pop in the picture out on nowhere.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on April 08, 2007, 08:27:28 am: Sorry for the double post again, I just wanted to post the update before I go to bed. Here is what I wanted to try out. I changed up the top of the cliff a bit to make it less bare. I also added the man I was talking about earlier. I don't want him to stick out much and be the main focus of the picture. Incase anyone is wondering, the guy is supposed to be facing toward the mountains.
(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2483/forest5qy9.png)
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: yosh64 on April 08, 2007, 10:04:09 am: hey

I think the background hills need to be taken down a shade or so, they don't look far enough away? Hmm, but maybe you should wait to see what others have to say about this. Meanwhile I might try and edit for this...

edit
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7632/forest5qy9edityosh64bf7.png), and (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9653/forest5qy9edit2yosh64uh4.png) -> (http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3456/forest5qy9edit2yosh64nv6.png)
Well I've done a quick/messy edit for you... well this is the first time I've ever done anything like this, so maybe others can give their thoughts on my advise.

Okay, my first concern was the perception of depth... the things in the distance didn't look like they were in the distance. The other thing was the lighting... looking at the rocks and highlights of the clouds, I think the light comes from the top left, and towards us. So I done some major editing of the closer background mountain, I think our right side should be darker (as how is the same amount of light meant to get to it, as seen in yours???), and to give greater depth I think it should get darker the lower down the mountain you go. Ohh yea, I also thought the closer background mountain looked a bit out of perspective also, which I tried altering a tad.

Firstly I tried to take it down a shade, to make it look futher in the distance, I did the same for the very far background mountains. I also edited the highlights of the clouds, as it looked really odd to me how the top and bottom of the clouds were highlighted (hope this makes sense), so I went over and only kept the highlights of the top of each bit of cloud.

I also done some other minor things here and there. But yea, my tip is to focus on the light, and let that define the mountain... rather than trying to use some special mountain pixel techniques or whatever. Hmm, well I'm not sure you were really doing this, but hopefully you get the idea.

Anyhows I hope this helps :).

and another...
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5760/forest5qy9edit2yosh64dl6.png) -> (http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8443/forest5qy9edit2yosh64yd1.png)
Done another edit to try and make the rocks look more natural and such, and tried to define the person better. The flag seemed to defy gravity, hehe. Think I might be done with my edits now :), I do hope you can learn some things from these.

cyas
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on December 07, 2007, 03:34:32 pm: I wanted to come back to this picture and start working on it again. So once again, critique is welcome.

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1598/forest7zp1.png)
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Akira on December 07, 2007, 10:28:08 pm: (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5107/cliffeditbh8.gif)
Made a small edit on the cliffs. You're relying too much on outlines to define shapes. In such a small area they actually have the opposite affect, cluttering the image and making the shapes unclear. In my edit I tried to remove the outlines and define lighting and shape through colour only. I hope this helps.

Edit: image was down.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Cow on December 08, 2007, 01:22:19 am: The details on the mountain appear to be small protruding details that quickly return to a normal flat plane. Yosh's edit fixes this a bit I think. The grooves and lumps and stuff are more big/broad/3dimensional then what you seem to have.

I don't know if I explained that clearly. Hopefully so. :y:

Also, focal point in the center of the screen. Typically that's a design no-no.

I like the mood of this. Keep it up. :)

Nice edit Akira. :y:
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Malor on December 09, 2007, 02:51:23 pm: I would say that the contrast is too high between the mid-tone and the darker greens on the mountain detail, this is making the mountain looked more sharp than I think is necessary. I would recommend making your darker colors lighter, just to smoothen things out.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Dusty on December 09, 2007, 04:53:33 pm: Man needs to stand out some more, right now he blends in pretty well with the background.
Title: Re: [Help] Mountain Scene
Post by: Generic on December 10, 2007, 12:08:27 am: I tried to touch on what everyone said. I also slightly upped the contrast on the man, but I'm not sure if that helped any.

(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/818/forest8fe9.png)