Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Ben2theEdge on January 09, 2007, 10:28:48 pm
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Hey everyone... this is my first post here. *Gulp*
This is a boss sprite I'm working on for a game project. When he's done he'll be able to jump, shoot eletricity from his brain, and fire homing missiles (I'm not sure where from yet - maybe his shoulders or maybe I'll give his tail a missile launcher? Ideas?) Anyway, I'm looking for some critiques before I get too much further into the animating process. What'cha think? (Bonus high five for anyone who knows what kind of dinosaur he's based off of ;^)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/Boss-Stegmataur-Standing-2.gif)
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wow, this is very cool. The fingers look a lot less fluid than the rest of the body though. I think they would look better as claws, but that's your call. I think that if you added a little white highlight to the glass cover on the brain it would look more like glass.
Keep it up, it's a very interesting piece.
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;D i really like this one =) only recommendation is to make the glass on his brain a bit more transparent or watery looking, and to give him claws
is it based on stegosaurus?
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Wow, this is great! Lovely design, and animating skills. My only tip, is that I hope your other animated pieces don't just involve moving/sliding groups of pixels up and down, or left and right, to create animated effects. Looks good on this, but if done repeatedly, it tends to look cheap to the pixel veteran's eyes.
Oh, and welcome! Can't wait to see the rest of your stuff!
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haha i like this - I'd add more motion though, like make his shoulders a separate sliding piece as well. I agree that the fingers seem somewhat out of place - i think the front arm blends with the body a bit, i'd lower the body's contrast and make the arm a little more sharp. Fun stuff!
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OMG! What were you on when you came up with this? I love it! ;D
I would suggest that you add a waterlevel to the braincontainer, that would make it easier to recognize as fluid.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/mr_norris/barinyflus.gif)
Or something like that.
Really nice!
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Oh yea, that would be snazzy to have the fluid sloshing around the top.
The far eye on the head looks a little strange. Would it really be visible at that perspective? It looks like the mouth is strait on while the skull is angled? Other than that, very nice!
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Looks more like a third eye in the middle of the skull to me, Hishnak.
I agree on the water level comment, though.
He'd look alot more lively if you switched up the anim every few moments between this idle stance and maybe a swing of the tail or roar or something, like some fighting games do.
But if he's to be hopping around alot, then he might not be still enough for such a switch-up to be useful.
I agree with Stewlin about the fingers. They'd look better and less obviously repetitive with a more subtle movement. This might just be me, but I think animations should be like tiles in that you shouldn't be able to see where they loop, which is probably the reasoning behind my two previous suggestions.
I think rockets would best fit into the armor that's already there, like on the front, above the warning stripes, have some doors or something that opened up when he was about to shoot them.
Well, definately not a T-Rex or Raptor; neither of them have those back scale thingies...I don't know, I'm not very wise when it comes to dinos.
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Cool boss sprite? Do you mind telling what game you made it for? Link?
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I really like the cool green army metal palette. The brain sloshing is good (it also gives the impression of water kinda warping it ...can't
explain...but its a good thing). Is it a stegosaurus? edit: oops, didn't read eck's post.
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this looks good, but I keep expecting the tail to do an up-down whiplike motion.
I would add that if possible
also, the color of the liquid could use some more blue if it's supposed to be water
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hahaha, that is a very catchy design, it's very cool but somehow silly and humurous. The style you used for animating this is JUST right for the type of animation it is
just...a question, do you have much experience animating, I imagine this would be a beast (BA DA BUM PSSHHH!) to animate...from the animation skills displayed in this one I think you be putting the detail standards way too high standard for animation skills....I hope your other animated pieces don't just involve moving/sliding groups of pixels up and down, or left and right, to create animated effects. Looks good on this, but if done repeatedly, it tends to look cheap to the pixel veteran's eyes.
Listen to the man El si que sabe de animar cosas complejas...no tengo nidea de como va a hacer con sus fighter sprites XDD
from the way you animated here it looks like you're just gonna slide things around....if that's the main aproach you plan to take I suggest you figure out a way to simplify the sprite whitout taking it's appeal away, so you can try some actual redrawing in the animation.
dont think I'm a redrawing animation Natzi or anything I KNOW sliding stuff around is a perfectly good technique, it can turn this (Castlevania X sprite)->(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/talbot/Sprites/wereskel.gif) into this->(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/talbot/Sprites/wereskelccpa.gif) I belive an artist should never be afraid of using a tool, but anyone who relies too much on a tool ends up doing cheap material.
at the beggining you should make a few good re-drawn animations, so that when you know WHY sliding stuff around tends to look so bad you can try doing it in a way that avoids everything that makes it look bad.
I think a good way to make him shoot the rocket launcher sequence would be to have the top of his skull dis-assemble and retract, then have the rocket blast right out of his mouth....and if you're in the mood for even MORE extra effects have smoke come out of every one of it's tail rings
ALL of his bones could use a lot more contrast in the pallete, but The spine...Plates (spikey thingys that stick out of the thickiest part of his tail :p) are specially in need, they look so flat to me they seem petals. Re-shade them, add some shadows to them so they have a thick volume.
summing up, glad to have you aboard, you obviously have some skills so please keep posting your stuff...and if posible post more about other aspects of the project (tiles, other sprites, gameplay) seeing that kind of stuff will help us know your art direction and be EVEN MORE (OMG it is posible? XDD) accurate in our crits =)
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Thanks for your responses everybody!
He is based off a stegasaurus. Good job to the two who got it. High fives! All the boss-creatures in the game are based off dinosaurs... no particular reason, they're just fun to draw.
Conceit and B.O.B., I try to use a combination of sliding and redrawing; usually with idling/standing animations I slide stuff and then touch it up afterwards. I've never tried to animate something this big before, though, so large amounts of redrawing are a bit intimidating to me. I am making it really hard on myself with the design but I really want him to have a sort of Metal Slug-esque vibe. I'm just not as good an artist as those guys ;^p I'm hoping this will force me to develope my animation skills more.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/Boss-Stegmataur-Standing-4.gif)
Here's a small update: The water animation is crap - I'm gonna fix it; I just wanted to get it in there. I also intend to make his hand movements more subtle (some people suggested claws but they are a little out of place for the character - he's not really supposed to be a warrior, more of a mastermind. If you guys really think he needs claws though, I'm gonna have to redraw the fingers anyway so it wouldn't be out of my way. I liked the idea about the thrashing tail - I'm not sure if his tail will actually be that visible during gameplay (it may be offscreen) so I'm a little hesitant to spend the time and sweat making it fully animated. Though it would look very cool and it would be good practice for me. The more I think about the game design the more I think the rockets should probably be fired upwards... which means shoulders I guess. I love Conceit's idea about his skull opening up and firing something though so maybe I'll give him another attack like a laser or something... I just really wanna try animating that ;^)
A couple other sprites from the game (feel free to critique these, too!) No backgrounds yet - I'm going to be getting some help with those as I am very amateur when it comes to scenery.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/XavierRunningwSword-1.gif) (http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/thSimpleSkeletroidWalking.gif) (http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/MatureSkeletroidStanding.gif) (http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/chumchum_standing.gif) (http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/Starship-web.gif)
The game is called Skeletroids, btw (which is the reason for the recurring skull/bones motif) As far as gameplay goes, the two biggest inspirations are Castlevania and Gunstar Heroes. Basically like Castlevania or Metroid in that it will be free-roaming and exploratory, but faster-paced with smaller worlds/areas and more agressive enemies. It'll also have some shmup parts as you can tell by the spacecraft ;^)
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Are those cola cans on the space ship!? Probably not, but if so, brilliant idea! It could leave a fizzy trail in the air!
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Holy crap, I don't think I've ever loved character designs as much as these before. I 'specially like the small skulldude. ;D
The hero is awesome. I love the snap in his legs.
My only problem is that, on the fat one, the fingers seem to go behind the fur in a few frames, making the perspective kind of wierd. And I think that just the minorest rotation of his head in a nodding fashion would improve the interest in him. I could be wrong, though.
The ship is great. I think the shadow on the lower fin should move as the ship tilts back (moving upwards, I presume?). But yeah, it's great. I've always sucked at making ships.
The braintank's shine made a big difference.
Are those cola cans on the space ship!? Probably not, but if so, brilliant idea! It could leave a fizzy trail in the air!
I agree. ;)
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Oh man, I love this. Free-roaming Gunstar Heroes with shmup-segments? I'm sold!
The sprites are lovely and well-animated, even if there's a some obvious "cut 'n pasting" going on. One thing I'd like to mention is that the shadows and high-lights on the small space-ship should move around more as the ship rolls. Look at the shadow from the wing that falls over the lower engine/cola can for example. The shadow should fall over the highlights as the ship rolls right and vice versa.
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nice stuff
my only concern is that if its a platform game, wouldn't it look a little odd with the characters angled towards the camera?
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nice stuff
my only concern is that if its a platform game, wouldn't it look a little odd with the characters angled towards the camera?
See every megaman game ever made ;)
EDIT - yeah taka i agree, it didn't occur to me til just after I hit post...I'm actually having a hard time thinking of ANY platformer bossfights that are fully side-on...Super Mario Bros for the NES maybe? That's about all I can come up with...
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nice stuff
my only concern is that if its a platform game, wouldn't it look a little odd with the characters angled towards the camera?
See every megaman game ever made ;)
I'd say the majority of platformers too
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those other sprites are very very nice. everything has just as much character as you'd expect from the boss char.
Main guy looks a bit too much like your average Gunstar clone for my taste though, considering how captivating the enemies are....I'm afraid this could be a game where the enemies are far more charming than the protagonist.
hm....I have more issues with the big guy's contrast now that I've seen the rest, quite honestly as charming as his design is he looks like from a lower quality game than the rest.
He looks a little off-key between the little guys, his whole shading has a more gradient feel to it because you applied so many shades on him, I imagine you did it because he's big and you knew you needed more "detail" and make his shading smoother.
Dont think that a lot of shades applied like a gradient all over help create detail....they are a tell sign of ignorance on lighting. Obviously in your case it must be lack of experience with big sprites, tiny ones are superb.
Almost feels like you're aproaching the big guy as a bunch of small sprites mashed together, why dont you try sizing hs outline down, quickly reshading him completly, then resize back to this scale and compare what you get? I'm pretty sure you could get the basic way light goes right if you did it in tiny first.
Another reason I think this isnt working out, is you're not sure of how to do the metal texture.
Check
-Megaman X4 sprites (bosses mostly) for refference on how to do his sci-fi robot parts http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/X/
-Metal Slug for the tank-like parts http://www.mslugdb.com/main/gallery/sprites/
Shoulderpads
-why are the higlihts on the top? put them at the botton to emphasize the / angle of the plate they're on.
Balls.
-Ok, balls.Balls with stuff on them, and balls cut in half are all shaded the same way as any other ball.You have a lot of ball parts that you shade incorrectly because they have stuff on them or they are cut in half. Balls disperse light equally from the spot in which lights hit them; if you looked at a ball from the lightsource it should look pillow shaded, but as we're not doing that here it should be from an angle. Look at MegamanX4 sprites, they have lots of examples of how to do this.
-You on the other hand change the way light disperses if there's something on top of the ball...if it's only the botton of the ball, all sorts of things are distracting you.
Neck/tail
-Up that contrast, make the lower parts darkened (like the starship! it has a similar cone/cyliner shape)
-dont do small highlights on fur, that makes them look like speculars! if you have highlights make them abundant and dont contrast them with the midtone.
-why are there shadows right below the column? the fur is fully being hit by light there, and there arent any casted shadows!
Bone Plates
-still looking like Petals! those dark cracks look like veins for petals! plates wouldnt have cracks trough the middle. make them a little round so they cast shadows, and if you NEED to put some detail give them dents, like a stegosaurus should have!.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ba%C5%82t%C3%B3w_Park_Jurajski_001.jpg
Arms
-they pretty much just lack contrast! dont get shy because you're doing big sprites! also, move the speculars just a little to the left and up.
Brain.
-The lowered water level isnt working, it is a distraction! you must HAVE the sensation that it is in the water before you can have a underwater/out of water contrast!
-do it with shading, make the color of the liquid match the color of the brain very closely, maybe even use the same pallete. DARE to take away detail, give a LOT more room to the middle tone, use all the shades to very clearly show the volume of a brain, then IMPLY some brain texture (noodle like thingyies :p). that helps give the unerwater effect by making the liquid look thick.
- if posible, make some speculars (NOT WHITE BLOTCHES, better do nothing than doing that hahaha) or scratch effects to emphasize the glass containing it.
- if you want bubbles you'd have to make them far more abundant, but since they are always moving I think they'd be a hassle.
Legs
-the balance concerns me, the right leg looks like it's too far at the back to support him, as if he would fall down...but I ALMOST feel like this is justfied by style....think about it.
-dont highlight his right kneepad, it is in full shadow. put some highlights on the lit area of the left tigh...
Personal preference.
-I dont care for outlines, they are a big headache when animating specially if they have AntiAlias/Selout and I dont think they're worth the trouble at all, I would avoid them.
Finally, Linkage:
http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm I have a feeling this might be of great use to you.
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Super animation. I really prefer the second edit you done with the brain monster.
Keep it up.
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(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/Boss-Stegmataur-Standing-2.gif)(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/Boss-Stegmataur-C.gif)Well, couldnt resist and made an edit.
I didnt do what I suggested to you precisely because I tweaked the lighting a lot more...there's a thing I do where I tend to lit up the things on the foreground, specially the limbs far more than anything else...I didnt mention it in my crit and that's mostly what this edit is about.
I'm...afraid it might be too intrusive, I know how sometimes edits can go overboard and end up being a "I can draw your characters even better than you ever would" showoff when the editor goes overboard, make the author feel like they dont own the piece anymore. I'd feel horrible if you thought that was the case.
Hopefully this serves to illustrate my point and give you some ideas about how to make volume. pm me if it confuses you at all......
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A lot of the poppyness of the dinobeast are lost in your edit, Camus, but I think he can learn a lot from the brain tank and the shoulder/arm area. Good edit. Hope this influences you the right way, Ben.
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don't forget colours, too, Godslayer. Seeing Conceit's edit and the original side-by-side, you can see that there's a lot of potential in this already excellent piece. Besides the great boost from a higher contrast and a larger hue ramp, conceit's edit is excellent because it actually looks like fur is furry and the metal metallic. His crit about the back plates makes more sense now that I see what he was imaging.
I hate posting without a crit, but follow what conceit is saying and this is going to look fantastic.
Should be fun to see your next edit.
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A lot of the poppyness of the dinobeast are lost in your edit, Camus, but I think he can learn a lot from the brain tank and the shoulder/arm area. Good edit. Hope this influences you the right way, Ben.
agreed, his face has a cartoony effect that kind of reminds me of Dragon ball which I lost...still, I think its worthwhile to show him an alternative :p
Crabs:I actually didnt add any colours, took a couple of wasted colors from here and there and used them for the brain vat thing.
EDIT: wow, I forgot to say something....thank you! hah, I would've never designed a sprite like that and working on it was very releasing, I am glad you are here.
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Thanks everyone!
- Conceit your edit is really amazing - I'm learning a lot about lighting and shading just from this thread, hahaha. I'll reference yours when I get a chance to work on the sprite more, particularly the way you got the textures down. Thanks for the links too, those were really helpful. I'm glad you found working on the design releasing - I'm finding that designing these characters is an incredible stress reliever, haha.
- The main character's design is a little bit boring I guess... the game actually started out being called "Real American Gunslingers". The bad guys were going to be terrorists, and the entire game was going to be in Janglish - sort of a spoof/tribute to the games I grew up on. While it was kicking around in my head it morphed into what it is now, but the stereotyped space commando guy never really evolved I guess. I hoped that giving him a huge sword would help him stand out a little ;^)
- I pretty much never draw platform sprites that are directly from the side. I just find them incredibly boring to sprite, and very flat and 2-dimensinoal-looking when they're finished. I've seen some people who can make them work, I'm just not one of them.
Again thanks for your comments everyone. I'll post another version soon with what I've learned from you guys!
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These are all really fantastic. The fourth sprite - the one with the bull skull - is really good (for some reason
it reminds me of Hayao Miyazaki's stuff) . For the ship's cabin, when it rotates one way,
the highlight moves, but when it rotates the other way, it doesn't. Maybe if you made it consistent it would
look better.
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Here we go... yet another generation.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/Boss-Stegmataur-Standing-4.gif) (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/Boss-Stegmataur-C.gif) (http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/ben2theedge/Image10000.gif)
From left to right: My original design -> Conceit's reworking -> My latest reworking as inspired by Conceit's.
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agreed, his face has a cartoony effect that kind of reminds me of Dragon ball which I lost...still, I think its worthwhile to show him an alternative :p
Crabs:I actually didnt add any colours, took a couple of wasted colors from here and there and used them for the brain vat thing.
EDIT: wow, I forgot to say something....thank you! hah, I would've never designed a sprite like that and working on it was very releasing, I am glad you are here.
God, if you have a tutorial for making such darn nice metal, you should really show it, otherwise, I hope you'll make it. It's awesome. <3
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Nice stuff Ben2. I like your character design.
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Very cool Ben: The freakin bone plates I insisted on so much are looking great, I just made a few clumsy strokes to illustrate my idea on them and wasnt really satisfied with how it came out. But you got exactly where I was going with that and made what I really intented to do, kickass. it might be a tiny simple but showing a complex idea with simple means is the hardest thing I know.
Sharpm:Tutorial? uhm I guess I'll think about it
BEN: You have done the Bone plates and shoulder pads justice but I think you missed the point of my edit, I'm glad you like the way I DETAIL the textures, but I was more concerned about the volume...I guess I lost track of that in my edit.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/Boss-Steg-VOL-vs.gif) this is the change that I care about in what I did with my edit, I wasnt thinking so much of the texture of details as I was thinking of the VOLUME
here's how I see BIG vs TINY sprites.
Sprites are about their shape and their VOLUME the DETAIL is there as a nice extra, thing is the bigger the sprite, the more work it gets to take the DETAIL to an acceptable level.
Your tiny sprites look good becaue they have the right priorities, but your big sprites gave more importance to DETAIL than to VOLUME, which makes sense because big sprites do require more detail, but you should never never lose sight of the volume. See how light was kinda all over the place in yours? I tried to focus it and make it bring out the basic shapes (sphere, cylinder, cone) of the Boss.
TORSO
you kinda imitated the way I DETAIL things but I dont think really got where I was going with the VOLUME
BRAIN VAT
you did a low color version of my speculars, fair enough considering you have to animate.
the brain though, you just upped it's contrast. that made the details SCREAM at you, and practically muted it's VOLUME, what I was suggesting was toning down the DETAILS and upping the VOLUME a lot.
what am I telling you to do with all this, I dont know really, just wanted you to understand where I was going.
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Oh, wow, Conceit. That explained alot. I know it wasn't towards my art, but thanks, as I'm sure it'll help alot later.
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Your colour choice could still use a bit of tweeking. Red fur would complement the green of your armor and brain vat more than the brown does now. It'd have a unifying effect on the palette, too.
I also think you might be overdoing the AA on parts of the metal. The AA is dulling the shine and you're losing the metallic effect(to name a few places: fingers, the elbow joint, shoulder pad and body(below shoulder pad, to left of arm)). I think in this case harsh edges, shorter buffers/gradiants, with careful pixel placement would have a more pleasing result. Be bolder with your speculars.
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Excellent critique, Conceit.