Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: B-Rokal on January 05, 2018, 04:13:52 am
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/RJHT4ee0QCCkpgDMM_QOxA.png)
So this is how the background and Level looks...
Does it look... "Empty", how can I make a good one? I always sucked at background and I donīt know anyone who can get them right (at least not for free XD)
Anyway, aside from feedback, is there a way I can improve backgrounds? like a series of techniques or tricks that can turn the background of my game to a at least descent level?
Thanks :)
(btw, am I spamming this blog? I post almost daily XD if that is a problem let me know)
Edit: OF COURSE you canīt give me feedback without posting the image XD
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The green of the foreground grass is rather too intense for the rest of the scene, could do to be toned down some.
Is the grass surface on the background earth walkable? If so I'd try to make it closer to the foreground grass in style and colour.
The distant background layers could be made more interesting by having parts of the further layers dip behind the nearer layers so they don't all form continuous bands.
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The distant background layers could be made more interesting by having parts of the further layers dip behind the nearer layers so they don't all form continuous bands.
This is a particularly unrealistic aspect of the scene.
In particular:
- The solid grey band at the base of the closest mountains layer should be shaded like the top and interrupted by valleys, showing other mountains behind them (probably a layer of the same tiles).
- There should be at least one additional layer of greener mountains or hills, maybe even 2 or 3 layers, closer than the currently first one, which is blue enough to imply a lot of haze and therefore a great distance.
- Far mountains have no reason to be taller than close ones; in general, the curvature of Earth surface makes them appear slightly less tall on average. They should be visible between the peaks of closer layers.
- Clouds are layered vertically, not horizontally like mountains. If the sky is cloudy, put them at the top, possibly obscuring the top of all mountains, with holes of blue sky at low altitude (possibly near the horizon, visible through aligned gaps of all mountain layers); with less clouds, put them between and/or above the mountains at all distances.
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The distant background layers could be made more interesting by having parts of the further layers dip behind the nearer layers so they don't all form continuous bands.
This is a particularly unrealistic aspect of the scene.
In particular:
- The solid grey band at the base of the closest mountains layer should be shaded like the top and interrupted by valleys, showing other mountains behind them (probably a layer of the same tiles).
- There should be at least one additional layer of greener mountains or hills, maybe even 2 or 3 layers, closer than the currently first one, which is blue enough to imply a lot of haze and therefore a great distance.
- Far mountains have no reason to be taller than close ones; in general, the curvature of Earth surface makes them appear slightly less tall on average. They should be visible between the peaks of closer layers.
- Clouds are layered vertically, not horizontally like mountains. If the sky is cloudy, put them at the top, possibly obscuring the top of all mountains, with holes of blue sky at low altitude (possibly near the horizon, visible through aligned gaps of all mountain layers); with less clouds, put them between and/or above the mountains at all distances.
Ok, some thing to note
- The back Grass is not walkable, is intended to be background
- What I tried to do with the clouds is that they are at the same level as the peak of the mountains, I didn't noticed the contradiction, if you are tall enough to see the clouds at the same level as you, then the scene should be foggy, that maybe can make up for the "emptiness" of the stage and add some originality
I'll show updates as soon as I fix the Tiled map that is massively glitching, Thanks :D
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I'm making a separate thread for feedback on the hills I want to add (they might be not final but I still want to make them
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I think it would be best if you had all that stuff in a single thread. Context matters.
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/0xSJo1KxRH2fFJakIQF3aw.png)
(Not Pixel-Perfect)
Well, the scenery looks like is taking shape, the hills (despite looking like being drawn by a monkey) give the stage a little more "Personality" (or at least I think so ._.)
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/kSo_bAAKSdeyeoG3Sb0pZA.png)
The scene so far (both layers of hills are actually the same graphic, I'll make another set of hills later)
I had the idea of placing stuff like wreckages or tents in the hills so they don't look so empty, I also must make the fog (I'm really not sure how but I guess i'll figure out XD)
Thanks again :)
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I don't think you need anything on the hills if you have a lot of those midground cliffs around (like in the top screenshot). It would just be busy.
Depending on how detailed you want them, consider making the colour transitions have a bit of grass texture to them. Some small vertical strokes would be enough, since the hills are far away.
The rounded hill shape looks very unnatural and cartoony, they look more like barrows than hills. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I thought I'd mention it. Real hills tend to have a less hemispherical shape, with clearer ridges and less symmetry, so that might be something to work on if you want a more realistic look.
If you keep the smooth, dome-like hill shapes, it might be good to make the shadows smoother to match. The shadows imply an irregular surface with lots of bumps and troughs, but the hill silhouettes imply a smooth, featureless surface.
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There is actually something missing from those hills.
Details! Things like flowers, or trees, or rocks... small things to make them feel real. I live in a valley where there's a lot of them and even grassy "pasture" hills tend to have patches of rougher grass or longer unkempt bits.
Play around with details to get the feel you want for each area, try to think of what the area IS. A meadow? A farm area? the outskirts of a forest?
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/G0y5hDMZRf6oKNU3nzBQwA.png)
Well, I added some detail and trees...
And corrected the shape, I want to put flowers too but... I'm not really sure...
Thanks, is it going well? :)
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looking way stronger now, yeah! the size of the trees here gives them a distant look thatll sell the valley look. good stuff!
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I agree, it's looking better! I don't think you should add flowers, as they'll work against the scale and make the hills "pop" too much with their colour.
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/C4s0cxcKSEmikI4fuUPJJw.png)
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/Gnx2Q8U3RxWXPlBOhJpwTQ.png)
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/1UBpiGRcSFSp5CMlrOgL3w.png)
Added a new texture for the hills farther
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/L3bK9Rv5RAy0qLXV3XgY7Q.png)
Is it loking good?
There is still a lot to do for stage 1, I feel like i will never finish :( but I guess i'll just keep going, how much levels should I have ready before starting to promote the game?
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aye. id add a third layer in front of it all to connect the level to the background better but the variance is excellent!
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/bQ5fI3DaTi6W1KFqVx-nFg.png)
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/-_0ZINsfToGTjWYSRzADCw.png)
More Mock-Ups
This time I need feedback on the tile set themselves
The second one has a mock-up background so is just to see it compared to the rest of the scene
Thank You :D
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The background is looking more interesting and realistic than the foreground. The neon green grass in particular looks very cartoony compared to it, as do the repetitive rocks just below the grass. The isolated rocks look great and match the style of the background though.
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something you might take cues from is starbound/terraria, those games have some of the best terrain tiling i've seen. though they do cheat a bit with layerimg to make transitions work better.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/xULW8pMsIwYXWwxRrG/giphy.gif)
Do you remember him?
He is supposed to appear in the game this level is going to be used, does he fit right with the rest of the environment? I have always been terrible maintaining a constant art style... I was planning to make the rest of the monsters, characters and enemies with the style of that monster
Should I tone down realism on the background? or there is no problem on keeping the background like so?
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/OuUaVWI2SHqQTXkpDqDuRw.png)
Here is a quick mock-up of the main character, a common enemy and the monster
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The green hair of the main character should have a darker outline (much like the two other guys), or else it blends into the background.
Should I tone down realism on the background? or there is no problem on keeping the background like so?
I like it as it is !
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Think I have to agree with eishiya, the background looks sort of much more realistic than the foreground, so it looks a bit weird. I think most of the issue there is the very squarish tiles you have going on. Try rounding those corner tiles a bit and such. Make the tiles a bit more organic, using less straight lines etc. Especially in the back tiles. I mean since you dont interact with them and dont need a straight platform on any of them, you can just go wild with it.(Tried to include it a bit in the edit)
Also I think the characters kind of dont fit in with it all too. I think the best way to fix it would be to tweak the tileset a little. Maybe give it a slightly darker outline around it. Basically give the outline to everything that is a main foreground element and is interactable with in any way. And the grassy part of the tileset I feel is too brigh, you could show a little depth by leaving only the very top brighter and making the sides a bit darker sort of like in the quick edit I made here.
Good job overall on it though! I like the monster animation especially!
(https://i.imgur.com/ciRvsQT.png)
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Think I have to agree with eishiya, the background looks sort of much more realistic than the foreground, so it looks a bit weird. I think most of the issue there is the very squarish tiles you have going on. Try rounding those corner tiles a bit and such. Make the tiles a bit more organic, using less straight lines etc. Especially in the back tiles. I mean since you dont interact with them and dont need a straight platform on any of them, you can just go wild with it.(Tried to include it a bit in the edit)
Also I think the characters kind of dont fit in with it all too. I think the best way to fix it would be to tweak the tileset a little. Maybe give it a slightly darker outline around it. Basically give the outline to everything that is a main foreground element and is interactable with in any way. And the grassy part of the tileset I feel is too brigh, you could show a little depth by leaving only the very top brighter and making the sides a bit darker sort of like in the quick edit I made here.
Good job overall on it though! I like the monster animation especially!
(https://i.imgur.com/ciRvsQT.png)
Like so?
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/VgIt3pXbQBqSFCEYjk5N1g.png)
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/qPW05xl5Tqa-mvsproRuhg.png)
(I know that one of the layers are kinda "jumpy", is because I must make more tiles to achieve naturality)
Ok, now, someone tell me what the situation is like, i'm not quite understanding all this art style mess-up and I really REALLY donīt want to blow this game :(
- Should the characters and tile set be replaced so they match the background art style?
- The tile set does match the background but the characters doesn't?
- The characters does match the background but the tile set doesn't?
Also, this is going to be a video game, the idea is that people must actually want to spend their precious money just to play this and an art style mismatch pretty much renders the game "unpurchasable", is the game looking at least "$1.99 worth"?
Also, I really hope there could be a way in which I can pay you back for all this help :( (other than adding all of you in the game's credits) I never expected that much help and i'm very grateful
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Of the two layers of platform-like dirt tiles, the foreground one is so much simpler and more primitive than the background one (strict squares and flat platforms vs. continuous surfaces with slopes and semi-natural shapes) that it doesn't belong in the same game. I don't know what character movement are you planning to use and whether you want slopes or staircases, but you shouldn't use both.
In many platform games there is a functional second layer of platforms above the ground plane, often special objects like buildings or trees (e.g. Metal Slug); in many games one homogeneous layer of platforms is enough because platforms are placed at any height and above one another (e.g. Bubble Bobble, New Zealand Story, Boulder Dash).
The simple square tile style can be enhanced with variations and decorations, with vertically linked grass tiles for the common configuration of stairs with grass above grass (it shouldn't look discontinuous), and with softer edges in the dirt part, but eliminating the sloped tiles that make it look cheap by comparison would have the greatest benefit.
If you choose the sloped tile style instead, I think you should improve visibility of the platform profiles with thicker grass and undergrass borders, up to the size of the exaggerated ones you have on the square tiles.
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Of the two layers of platform-like dirt tiles, the foreground one is so much simpler and more primitive than the background one (strict squares and flat platforms vs. continuous surfaces with slopes and semi-natural shapes) that it doesn't belong in the same game. I don't know what character movement are you planning to use and whether you want slopes or staircases, but you shouldn't use both.
In many platform games there is a functional second layer of platforms above the ground plane, often special objects like buildings or trees (e.g. Metal Slug); in many games one homogeneous layer of platforms is enough because platforms are placed at any height and above one another (e.g. Bubble Bobble, New Zealand Story, Boulder Dash).
The simple square tile style can be enhanced with variations and decorations, with vertically linked grass tiles for the common configuration of stairs with grass above grass (it shouldn't look discontinuous), and with softer edges in the dirt part, but eliminating the sloped tiles that make it look cheap by comparison would have the greatest benefit.
If you choose the sloped tile style instead, I think you should improve visibility of the platform profiles with thicker grass and undergrass borders, up to the size of the exaggerated ones you have on the square tiles.
Thanks for your answer
What sloped tiles, again?
BTW, my progress
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/ULzRWuvbQdyoxcc5E4tD2Q.png)
EDIT(2): I said something stupid and cringy, donīt mind me, it was in a moment of heat, the only thing important from that "message" is that I really don't know what should I do to make the game look more "integral"
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no, dont scrap your game over this. learn to accept "good enough" and move on, most non artists (ie the majority of your audience) wont notice these things.
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(https://i.imgur.com/bhICbtK.png)
I think the outlined tiles are the major thing holding the tileset back. They look like artificial brown lines rather than like natural rocks/dirt. The rest of your dirt tiles look great, try to incorporate that look into these. Break up the vertical linear features at least, and maybe add some variant tiles with larger rocks. Try not to have the rocks all fade out to "black" so evenly, have some of the "columns" fade quicker than the others.
An edit to show what I mean about breaking up the vertical lines:
(https://i.imgur.com/kWl3V20.gif)
Same number of tiles, but I think it feels less repetitive and artificial like this. This edit is a little noisy, I'm sure you can do a cleaner job.
By the way, it looks like your backgrounds are blurry in some spaces. Double-check that they're getting rendered pixel-perfect by your engine.
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By the way, it looks like your backgrounds are blurry in some spaces. Double-check that they're getting rendered pixel-perfect by your engine.
Ah, that, the background is a crude screenshot pasted as an image layer in "Tiled Map Editor" (the mapper I use)
The reason I use that is because in the real game the one that is messed up is the map, not the background, that's because of a glitch of the program I use to transfer Tiled maps to Unity (Called, rather accurately, Tiled2Unity by seanba), so to show progress in terms of design, I screenshot Tiled instead of Unity
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I think the outlined tiles are the major thing holding the tileset back. They look like artificial brown lines rather than like natural rocks/dirt. The rest of your dirt tiles look great, try to incorporate that look into these. Break up the vertical linear features at least, and maybe add some variant tiles with larger rocks. Try not to have the rocks all fade out to "black" so evenly, have some of the "columns" fade quicker than the others.
An edit to show what I mean about breaking up the vertical lines:
Same number of tiles, but I think it feels less repetitive and artificial like this. This edit is a little noisy, I'm sure you can do a cleaner job.
By the way, it looks like your backgrounds are blurry in some spaces. Double-check that they're getting rendered pixel-perfect by your engine.
In the next episode of me doing random stuff until things somehow ends right:
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/lTuwdO5eRFav7xEXc_yJDg.png)
I know is not precisely a solid "9/10", but i'm still kinda proud for being able to improve so much... I'm going for a contrast of cartoony characters with pseudo-realistic scenery, i've seen games like Freedom Planet that does this so...
Of the two layers of platform-like dirt tiles, the foreground one is so much simpler and more primitive than the background one (strict squares and flat platforms vs. continuous surfaces with slopes and semi-natural shapes) that it doesn't belong in the same game. I don't know what character movement are you planning to use and whether you want slopes or staircases, but you shouldn't use both.
In many platform games there is a functional second layer of platforms above the ground plane, often special objects like buildings or trees (e.g. Metal Slug); in many games one homogeneous layer of platforms is enough because platforms are placed at any height and above one another (e.g. Bubble Bobble, New Zealand Story, Boulder Dash).
The simple square tile style can be enhanced with variations and decorations, with vertically linked grass tiles for the common configuration of stairs with grass above grass (it shouldn't look discontinuous), and with softer edges in the dirt part, but eliminating the sloped tiles that make it look cheap by comparison would have the greatest benefit.
If you choose the sloped tile style instead, I think you should improve visibility of the platform profiles with thicker grass and undergrass borders, up to the size of the exaggerated ones you have on the square tiles.
Has the Tileset improved?, i'm going for a sloped style, but for the early version of the game (you know, the one that goes into kickstarter if I decide to make one) I'm not planning to add that "functional layer" mostly because I suck at trees :P maybe with the money I can find someone to do that, so, without said layer, does it still look "decent enough"?
also, I'VE NEVER STOP THANKING to all of you guys, I promise the instant I finish the demo all of you are going to get it inmediatly :'( :'( :'( :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I like the colours in the dirt. The lower contrast and cooler hues make them feel lit by the same blue sky as the grass.
However, aside from the colours, your tiles are identical to my edit :/ Please do your own work! Apply what you've learned from my edit and draw your own dirt according to your tastes. You'll learn more that way and be able to do better work on your next bunch of tiles. Plus, you copied my mistakes/laziness as well! The edits I made for you don't tile well with your existing grass-dirt transition tiles at all, they make noisy-looking shapes instead. You should probably also have more than just one tile for the middle row of dirt-tiles, as it gets rather repetitive even with the more organic shapes.
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I really love the sky. It looks great.
The rocks don't look so good to me. I think one of the problems is they're too small. Also the ground could use more contrast. Try brightening up the brightest color and or darkening the darkest color
Like someone else said, the green doesn't fit particularly well
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I like the colours in the dirt. The lower contrast and cooler hues make them feel lit by the same blue sky as the grass.
However, aside from the colours, your tiles are identical to my edit :/ Please do your own work! Apply what you've learned from my edit and draw your own dirt according to your tastes. You'll learn more that way and be able to do better work on your next bunch of tiles. Plus, you copied my mistakes/laziness as well! The edits I made for you don't tile well with your existing grass-dirt transition tiles at all, they make noisy-looking shapes instead. You should probably also have more than just one tile for the middle row of dirt-tiles, as it gets rather repetitive even with the more organic shapes.
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/kH1sOoV9QTm9zFRKVPEvqg.png)
A WIP of the new tile set... I'm really having a bad time with this, what should I do when i'm blocked like this?
Anyway, some tiles have not been edited yet, I want to check if this style for the rocks works, is this better or worse than the last one?
Sorry for using your edit, I liked it so much and I really think it was way better than my edit (even if is a lazy one, you're a pro after all XD)
Thanks
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I'm no pro, I might just have a little bit more experience with pixelling dirt. If you keep working at it, you'll have me beat in no time!
Try to work from dark to light when you're drawing in the tiles, and maybe use a larger brush. Instead of adding shadows, instead start with a solid shadow (your darkest brown), and add in the lighter areas, colour by colour, and avoid the tempration to add in 1px details unless you feel you really need them. It'll be easier to get nice clusters that way (especially if you use a larger brush instead of 1px), and it approximates how light interacts with clumps of dirt - it hits the flat/rounded surfaces, and the cracks between them remain dark.
To make the colour transitions feel more natural, try to think of the dirt clumps as a giant, irregular dither pattern. Don't cut your use of the brightest colour all at the same horizontal level - mix in some highlights lower, some darker clumps higher. Same goes for clump sizes, don't be afraid to have larger clumps lower too, and some more small ones higher.
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I'm no pro, I might just have a little bit more experience with pixelling dirt. If you keep working at it, you'll have me beat in no time!
Try to work from dark to light when you're drawing in the tiles, and maybe use a larger brush. Instead of adding shadows, instead start with a solid shadow (your darkest brown), and add in the lighter areas, colour by colour, and avoid the tempration to add in 1px details unless you feel you really need them. It'll be easier to get nice clusters that way (especially if you use a larger brush instead of 1px), and it approximates how light interacts with clumps of dirt - it hits the flat/rounded surfaces, and the cracks between them remain dark.
To make the colour transitions feel more natural, try to think of the dirt clumps as a giant, irregular dither pattern. Don't cut your use of the brightest colour all at the same horizontal level - mix in some highlights lower, some darker clumps higher. Same goes for clump sizes, don't be afraid to have larger clumps lower too, and some more small ones higher.
What are clusters? ._. sorry, I'm kind of a newbie at this XD
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/YoXB5atJTfOJk_sIVANTlg.png)
So I applied what you said about "dithering the ground", is like so?
I'm... kind of starting to like it ;D
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Yes, like that! That looks a lot more interesting and natural.
I don't think you really need that 2nd light colour, it's not that distinct.
Clusters are shapes made of connected pixels of the same colour, or of multiple colours that still read as a unified shape. Modern pixel art is less about individual pixels, and more about these clusters, since the clusters are what the viewer actually notices, and they're what come together to create more complex forms.
Check out the PJ pixel art tutorial (http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299), it has a lot of useful information and terminology commonly used by pixel artists.
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/969FXpKxRUChaJbvH0PvgQ.png)
Sorry, I havenīt posted in ages XD
I know there are some quirks I should be working on like that cluster stuff and some continuity things like the smaller rocks and some literally mirrored tiles (I made for the sake of testing), I think the most valuable thing here is how much i'm learning, doing other kind of terrains from scratch will be way easier for me ;D
Team leader said he liked the rocks a lot but not the grass, he thinks looks a lot like moss, should I pay attention to him?
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I.can see it. Its the way it clings to the sides like it does, try keeping it from going fully vertical like that, leave the sides bare rock or exposed roots
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Yes, I can agree to that too. It does look a bit more like moss, since it doesnt have much of a grass texture.
Another thing you might want to look into is, making the background tiles more desaturated, so the player can easily understand which tiles are interactable and which arent. Readability is important.
Sort of like this
(https://i.imgur.com/AOUtgfU.png)