Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Keops on November 09, 2006, 12:43:04 pm

Title: Eureka
Post by: Keops on November 09, 2006, 12:43:04 pm
What's up?

I made this and I'd like for you all to comment and help me improve the piece, there's always room for improvement and although I'm quite satisfied with this I know it can be a lot better. I uploaded a progress gif animation for you all to check out too. Looking forward to some nice critiques, comments & edits too :)

Eureka, 12 colors (inc. transparency)


Progress animation


See you all!
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Shifty McSly on November 09, 2006, 01:01:21 pm
Looks pretty nice, other than the hands, I think they're a bit small, and unclear. The neck might be a bit long and I don't know what's going on with the back leg, but it looks iffy.  I really like the colours and the face especially, tho the frown might be a bit too much. Keep it up :) 
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Pawige on November 10, 2006, 07:37:29 am
It looks a bit flat, especially the sleeves and legs, I really like the form of the shoes though. If you curved the cuffs of the sleeves, the shadows on the legs, and added a bit of definition around the knees I think it'd improve it a lot. Also, is she totally flat chested with some sort of design on her shirt or what? I can't quite tell. The arm on her hip is a little short looking, and her back leg is a bit smaller looking that it should be, I think. The pose was a bit more natural looking in the sketch, which is a problem I have a lot, once it's refined it becomes much stiffer and I have to compared it to the sketch to try to regain the original looseness.
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Helm on November 10, 2006, 11:10:31 am
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/rchirino/eureka.png) (http://www.locustleaves.com/eureka2.png)

Took a color out, added two, 13 left. There's a lot in the edit that might be of interest. Pay special attention to shaping the body, not having near identical shades (white and the skin really didn't have any difference) not being afraid to use more colors where you need them (I don't say that often, heh) buffering with what might at first seem odd combinations. Also pay special attention on how fabric would hug the body volume. The shadow under the skirt doesn't make a lot of sense. Generally lots of little things and bigger things. Hope I helped.



Went ahead and looked under the style to see how the anatomy works. I think the top is too long (edited), there chest too narrow (edited), the hips nonexistent (edited, somewhat). The little dress shadow between the legs just to check where things connect, I'm not saying do that on the final piece, the dress isn't translucent.

I know a lot is about this being anime-ish or whatnot but it goes to the point where it doesn't read well. The worst problem in my eyes however, is the broken contraposto you've got going. The hips tilt one way, the shoulders should counter the other way. But they don't, as much as they could to balance it out. I still feel there's something uncomfortable in how the legs are posed (both in mine and your versions) and I hope a woman artist on the boards does an edit, mainly because they know how to draw women better than I can if nothing else.
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: ptoing on November 10, 2006, 11:38:36 am
Heed what Helm has to say.

Here is something that popped into my head when I looked at her a bit longer.

She looks like she is in a photoshoot and the photographer is telling her to do that sexy pose where you lean over and ultimatly support yourself with one arm on the bent leg, sticking the ass out. And she is really uncomfortable with the whole situation.

Keep it up, study anatomy more.
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Player1 on November 10, 2006, 11:46:52 am
Is there a way to shape here without taking much from original clearness of lines?

Btw, she looks (in original) like she is lighted not from top left, but with extra strong light directly from the front.
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Helm on November 10, 2006, 11:49:08 am
You sacrifice something to gain something else. I'm sure Keops will find the middle ground he needs if he's inclined to modify his piece.

I don't think this is central lighting as much as it is washed-out overexposure. More 'photography' wizardry for aesthetic purposes than a real-live lighting situation.
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Frychiko on November 10, 2006, 11:53:52 am
Leg edit:


If someones standing their front legs shape should be more concave, right now it's convex and looking like she's lifting her leg or about to sit down.
Nice to see some of your art again~
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Helm on November 10, 2006, 11:56:02 am
That is quite correct but then we sacrifice the pose for better grounding. There goes contrapost and whatnot.
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Keops on November 10, 2006, 12:39:50 pm
Thanks a lot for the replies and comments, all of you. A lot of food for thought and nice pointers here. I'll be studying the things you all mentioned here in detail once I get from work and have some free time (maybe in the weekend). I'll take heed of all the advice and I'll be sure to post an update to the piece soon.

Just in case, the character is not mine, is Eureka from the anime series Eureka seveN. The artwork is mine, though, I didn't base it on any piece (tracing), I just sketched a rough lineart as in the progress animation.

@Shifty McSly: Yeah, I notice what you said about the neck being too long. I assume Helm also noticed this, because one of the changes in his edit is the neck lenght. I don't really agree about the hands being too small, but I'll be sure to study it more and maybe I'll tweak them a bit.

@Pawige: Yeah, it happens to me a lot. Somehow the rough sketches (be them pixel or traditional pencil & paper) tend to look more natural or smooth, and when I "clean" the rough edges the end result ends looking too stiff or artificial. Still figuring how to avoid that. I kind of agree with you. Even something in her face looked more natural and similar to the character in the sketch.

@Helm: Lots of great advice there. Thanks a lot for the time you took to edit the piece. I'll be sure to inspect it all carefully and take a good look at the changes to see how can I implement them myself and how could I improve on them to increase the quality of the art. Is there possible you could post me some links to good anatomy sites? I tend to use the net to find anatomical references, but mainly pictures. I'd like some sort of theorical approach, you know, to the terms like contra-posto and all that. I've studied that a while ago in college, and I must admit I'm very rusty, mainly because I've stopped practicing my traditional art skills. Bad me, bad me. As for the clothing, well you're certainly right, gotta check out how the fabric SHOULD fold around the body. Even if her outfit is really tight, there should be some wrinkles and all that. As for the colors I sure have room for improvement, either adding or swapping colors. I don't really mind adding some color to the piece, I could even use 16 colors, no more than that, though. Once again, thanks for your thoughtful comments Helm, very much appreciated.

@Ptoing: Heh, I notice what you mean about her looking like in a photoshoot and being uncomfortable. Kinda true. Also, thanks for the comment. I'll be sure to study some more anatomy (gotta admit it's not one of my strenghts, too much anime/comic drawing and too little traditional art studies :( ) That can be remedied, though, just need to dedicate more time to my art.

@Player1: Although Helm's edit did lose some of the cleanliness (or flatness, as I would rather call it) he has a good point when he says you must sacrifice something to get something else. Still, good comment, about trying to keep the piece clean and smooth and add more detail & fix issues.

@Frychiko: Wow, just a small change on the legs can change the entire piece and that pose also looks interesting. I'm going to study that edit too to see if I can find a balance point in between the original posing and the more balanced one you've made. Thanks for the input!

Well, I'm out for now. Going to revisit this piece really soon and try to improve on it based on all the advice. Thanks!

Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Wayuki on November 10, 2006, 04:54:59 pm
I hope a woman artist on the boards does an edit, mainly because they know how to draw women better than I can if nothing else.

Somebody called?   ;D

When standing relaxed, most women shift their entire weight to one leg. In this case, that would be her right leg (our left). So, I think that leg should be moved so that it's straight below the body. Frychiko's leg pose looks good too, but not with this upper body. She seems to be leaning to the front too much.

If you have all of your weight on one leg, the hips tilt a LOT, and the shoulders should tilt the other way to match. And when you tilt the shoulders one way, you should tilt the head the other way, otherwise the neck looks detached somehow.

When I looked up the character, I was surprised to see that the blue patches on her shoulder are actually shoulder straps. So, they should be a lot less wide and have some sort of shadow underneath them. I also think you need to give a lot more shape to the dress to show her figure underneath. The sleeves should curve more at the bottom, too.

Lastly, I would try to bring more depth to the hair and eyes, since elaborate hair and overly shiny eyes are a big thing in anime. I take it that you were going for a stern expression rather than pouty, so I would make the mouth more subtle and change the eyebows to look angrier.

Anyway, an edit says more than words, so here's my attempt.

Yours ----> Helm's ----> Mine

(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/rchirino/eureka.png)  (http://www.locustleaves.com/eureka2.png) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/wayuki/eureka_example.gif)
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Helm on November 10, 2006, 05:07:07 pm
Thank you.
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Keops on November 11, 2006, 04:47:51 pm
Hello again!

@Wayuki: Wow, that's like the best edit ever, your insight and expertise in the ways of woman drawing (not to mention the amazing edit) really explained a lot to me. Thanks a lot for the time you took to comment and edit my piece. This really helped me a lot to understand the way to draw a girls body.

So applying a lot of the pointers given here I updated the piece. I'm going to post the updated version as well as a small .gif containing the old and new versions to compare them easily. The resulting piece looks similar to both worlds: It retains the character and simple lines of the original (to keep the similarity to the anime) and increases the detail in the shading and fixes most of the issues pointed in the critiques.

Any additional comments are of course, welcome. There's always room for improvement, and even if I'm even more satisfied with the art now, I will try to tweak more if needed.

Eureka update:

(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/rchirino/eureka_v2.gif) (http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/rchirino/eureka_progress02.gif)

Thanks all for the great input! Gotta love pixelation for that, it really helps and encourages you to get better!
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Helm on November 11, 2006, 09:52:12 pm
I really think this has benefitted lots. Congrats and also a nod of respect to you for taking critique, and always being courteous and replying to people that gave you such. I still think the neck is too long (edit out the ring around it and look at it bare and you might agree) but it's up to you in the end. Pose is great, all the other color and aa edits stand fine. Good work, Keops.
Title: Re: Eureka
Post by: Keops on November 12, 2006, 05:44:58 am
I'm going to check the neck further then, maybe you're right. I should try removing the golden ring to check its lenght, maybe it's creating an illusion to me and I don't see it as obviously, but I guess you're right, it still looks a bit long (considering the ring is quite wide). I also spotted some lines that can be improved a bit more upon closer inspection so I'll do another update to the piece, but I think I'll do it tomorrow, I'm a bit tired at the moment. Thanks for the kind words and the critiques Helm (and everyone). After that I'll guess I'll consider this piece finished and I'm open for starting a new one. I'm in a pixelling mood lately so I should just go and make it happen, I feel like I can improve a lot more now that I'm starting to get more motivation.

By the by, I think it's time for me to give more to the community, so I'm going to start to be more active in critiquing and commenting (and editing when possible).

See you all, take care!