Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Joseph on November 06, 2006, 05:44:31 am
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Ive had pro motion for a couple months now and I finally looked up how to use onion skinning for animations. Heres what ive come up with so far. Any edits/crits would be great.
old- new-
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktest.gif)---(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktestDONE.gif)
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Do your legs bend upwards?
Because mine sure don't.
Here's a walk cycle base I finished working on a few days ago.
(http://imagehost.ensellitis.com/imagesv2/2998419861walk.gif)
Notice how the knees bend rather then flex upwards?
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awwe I see. thanks, ill edit later today...damn school.
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Souly that animation is very problematic to serve as help for others I think. The limbs stretch and contract, some frames are almost same-place... generally, I'm surprised nobody has picked those faults apart in your own thread, and I'm no animation expert. Just saying that it's not as clean as it needs to be used as a base for others.
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I liked his better, it just needs Souly's sprite's bounce, and it'll look very cartoony.
I kinda like it, just make it bob down when his feet are farthest apart, and up when his feet meet.
Good luck.
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Souly that animation is very problematic to serve as help for others I think.
Haha, funny.
What Helm says is true, but Souly's does get the point about kneeness with his sprite. And yes, it does need some bounce.
Also, some torso rotation (or as I like to say, torsotation) and hip rotation (or as I like to say hippotation) would help this to look more natural and less stiff.
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Despite its flaws, souly's example is perfectly adequate for reference. It will serve as a positive model for the problems in joseph's animation. Further, souly's animation may not be technically up to par- but to the average gamer his animation is quite nice.
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alright, heres an update:
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktest1.gif)
still not the best but im finished...I almost gave up...then indigo's tutorial helped me a lot.
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Joseph,
This new edit looks much more professional however there are still a number of things which are not quite right.
Firstly this edit is somewhere between a run and walk.
-There is no vertical movement of the body (adding this may hide some of the other problems - looking closely his legs seem to change length don't they?)
Secondly the upper leg (thigh area) does not seem to move correctly.
-Look at the 'high point' & central 'conact' point;
http://www.idleworm.com/how/anm/02w/walk1.shtml
Also the legs don't bend enough when returning to their forward position.
Here is a final link useful for working on walk and run cycles on a pixel level;
-http://www.manningkrull.com/pixel_art/tutorials/walking.asp
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I see your points, thanks. Ill do some small edits but otherwise im done. I will add a verticle motion as well however I dont know exaclty how this will work out. there are only two frames where hes entirely off the ground, so it would look more like a fast jump, but ill figure something out, thanks again.
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Ok Joseph 2 more hints for you here
I have made a small quick edit on your animation cycle on just the front leg - ignore the back leg for now
yours
(http://willfaulds.com/pixel-arts/walktest1.gif)
mine
(http://willfaulds.com/pixel-arts/walktest2.gif)
download this and look at it carfefully - but remember its not perfect.
also look at the 2nd link i gave you READ IT all.
if you want it to be an all out run make some frames where his legs arent on the ground at all.
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new version:
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktest3.gif)
i'm afraid the arms may look like hes running and the legs may look like hes walking...does that show to anyone else or is it just me?
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sorry for double post but I updated yet again, and this topic dropped down pretty far pretty fast, so this also counts as an illegal bump...sorry again.
update-
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktest4.gif)
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I think you lost a lot of character in the most recent version. While the legs are good, i think the arms were better before. the arms were slightly too exaggereated but it looked better. Perhaps try and find ground between them?
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I was thinking that too, but remember, these are just base colors to work with. once they're colored I think they'll bit a lot better. Also, the character will be holding a sword and a handgun. thanks though. I may consider moveing the shoulder a bit more forward as he swings his arms forward...unsure about it and the finished product though.
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Could you make the background lighter. I can barely see the back 2 limbs.
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just gotta say, great progress on the animation so far, get some details in already :P
I prefer the slower movin arms but I think it depends if this is gonna be more cartoony or...
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thanks for that terley, and ill work on details next.
here's a lighter background-
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktest5.gif)
with the arms; I wanted movement in each frame but we'll see once its done, or at least colored.
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im done! I think...I may change one thing:
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktest6.gif)
the left hand appears in the front of him in two frames...im thinking thats too much?
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oldest- older- older- old- new-
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktest.gif)(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktest6.gif)
This is some progress, really. :crazy:
Regarding the hand, I don't really mind that the left hand is seen in two frames, my brain kind of makes it into one frame, but we'll have to see what the other pixelationers have to say, heh.
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I hope you can see how far you have come Joseph!
I have a few minor colouring concerns which distract from the smooth animation.
1. his far hand is probably fine frame wise but needs to be darker giving more depth and becoming less prominant.
2. his near hand does something odd at its most backward extreme - it looks like it stretches out. it just a shading tweak i think.
3. his near leg contrast alters to erratically, particularly the foot at its most backward extreme - it gets too light.
4. his far arm or his back ? - when his near arm is in its most forward extreme it is unclear whether the shape behind it is his arm or back. it should really be his back and arm and needs more of a division between the two.
5. finally something about his near shoulder isn't right - this I'm not sure on but try removing the outline between it and the chest when his near arm is at the forward extreme... but you might have to fiddle a while with that one.
EDIT: maybe his whole arm doesnt move forward enough - making the shoulder joint look odd
Don't let these nit picks get you down though. Thats the beginnings of a solid, professional animation loop.
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I see all of your points will. the near hand when its furthest back...I missed a pixel and kind of extends it a bit.
the shoulder, I hadnt noticed until you pointed that out, thanks, I will fix it.
im unsure about the far arm when its behind him though, any ideas on how to fix it?
ill see if darkening or even dithering the leg helps any.
heres a wip on the shooting...its my first try on something like this as well. I know its pretty bad.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/shoottest1.gif)
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It kinda looks like he is waving a knife...the gun needs to be bigger and maybe put both of his hands on it.
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I'll edit this post to crit the shot animation properly when i get a chance but wanted to post this before i forget - take a look at Flashback the game and try and get some sprites now Ive seen your colouring style it might be good reference.
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sorry but I searched for flashback screenshots (which were all jpg) and sprites, and nothing. if you know where some may be, mind posting the link or even the images themselves?
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alright im finished with this walking animation:
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/joseph_ch/pixel/unsure/walktestDONE.gif)
sick of edit after edit...now to work on the shooting animation.
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hehe. I think i might have remembered this with rose tinted glasses.
http://www.emugifs.emuita.it/flashback.htm
They might be of some help but I don't think they'll be the help I thought they would be (I'd totally forgot Flashback was vector based!)
Well here's another reference for you but this one i can't find any sprite sheets for - the gun anI'mation in it isn't great (im thinking snes version) but he sure knows how to be cool - Blackthorne
http://www.emulationstation.com/ (this might work some time soon - currently unable to view sprites or at least i am)
My main crit would be is he the same height? And don't just move the head the rest of his body needs to feel the shock
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Flashback isn't vector-based in-game. These are rotoscoped. The shooting animation in that page is badly captured and a few of them all miss frames. You can't go wrong with studying Flashback, I don't see what rose tints are going for it.
The walking animation has grown to become excellent, no crits from me.
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The walk looks nice, I don't have anything to add there. The shooting animation has potential, but needs some fixing. Here's what I'd do: cut frames 2 and 4 and skip the "one pixel head-movement to the left" in frame 3 (it's okay, but could be distracting in the long run, since it looks like he's being startled by the gunshot).
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(http://www.locustleaves.com/shoottest2.gif)
junkboy's crit in action. And why he rules.
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thanks for the info so far guys. I tired out a stance like pawige's...however it didnt turn out, so I closed it. I think that may be a bit too advanced for my game though.
ill figure something out, or if anyone has any suggestions for someone holding a gun and a sword? thanks again.
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The run animation looks great, I think the highlighting on the shoe as it goes up might be a bit extreme. The edit helm provided for the shooting animation shows a lot of improvement, however the pose isn't typical of someone firing a gun. as its a stationary shooting pose I would think that he would be poised more side on with his other arm up resting the gun for accuracy. Alternatively you could take another look at this wonderful piece http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2348.0 the problem with using that as reference is that in Pawige's the hand that you are using as free is not if you add a sword however...
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9216/posesmb3.png)
In regards to adding a sword if you chose it to be in hand at all times then it can act as a weight, or he can sling it over his shoulder whilst shooting. Both these poses are good and convey the swords weight. If not in hand place it on his back/hip to support it and do the first pose i brought up, if this is the case you may alternate between running frames with the sword out or gun out. Flashback is good reference as it has no significant highlighting, adding lighting is often where animations get to look choppy if not done right so it is important to get the poses and flat 'mask' of the animation right. Hope i have been a help good luck with this piece.
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Helm you are quite right. After doing an extensive sprite search a number of places posted that the game used vector art making it difficult to rip. It definately was rotoscoped at 25fps! but vector art was definately used in the cut scenes if not the main sprite.
The rose tints were fond old memories which had been warped somewhat, i'd forgotten that the character didn't have shading etc, plus the poor quality of that rip.
Joseph this link might be good to look at the two gun holding positions suggested http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/42321671/
(Paul Roberston's)
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SNES version of Flashback has a shaded main sprite, for what it's worth.
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joseph.
The end result hasn't turned out too badly. it moves, it looks like a walk and all that but can I give you a few pointers to try and improve your method of animating?
1. Buy the book I refer to in my signiture if you really want to animate with ease and understanding
2. Read it.
Failing that here's a quick snapshot of what you need to be thinking about...
1. Movements in walks (or any animated sequence) is more than 'just' the legs and arms, bending and flexing in opposition to each other, you have to think about the whole of the body and how each limb connects to the thorax and how the movement affects the balance (of the figure) and how it READS to the veiwer (silohettes [I'm looking at the sword guy here...)... The Head is another crucial frame of reference - how it moves in and out as the arms roll forwards and backward.
a. consider for example - the shoulders, and how they open and close as the arms move back and forward
b. consider - thehips and how they rotate and pitch and roll as the legs open and close
c. consider - the relationship between the shoulders and hips and the twist that coils and uncoils throughout the movement
2. Keyframing, Tweens and working in 'twos' or 'threes' - and TIMING - When you begin to make your character move work in rough.
a. start with the 2 'extremes' (these are the frames where the left foot and right foot are at there most open [i.e. the full stride]) - sketch it dynamically... make it look powerful or tentative or whatever mood you're trying to convey.
(http://pete.ptoing.net/2%20frame%20Extremes.gif) (http://pete.ptoing.net/pop_extremes.gif)
b. then move to the 2 'CROSSOVER' frames - (the frames where 1 foot is firmly planted and the other is bent and passing 'through' the other) the legs make a kind of shape like the number 4 [think about it] - you can mess with these crossover frames to give different overall 'vibe' to the animation (see the book) - but you're basically doing the same as the extremes...
(http://pete.ptoing.net/4%20frame%20Tweens.gif) (http://pete.ptoing.net/pop_x-over.gif)
c. for all keyframes described here you should consider the MASS of each shape, be it a foot, a calf, a knee, a thigh, a belly, a chest, a hand, a forearm, a wrist, an upper arm, the shoulder mass, the head mass - when I say MASS I'm talking about the VOLUME of that form... if you want convincing movement that doesn't distort over time then the volume should remain consistent - you can alter it's shape and scale according to style (stretch and squash) but the VOLUME would remain the same
d. once you have your keyframes nailed - you can then start the TWEENS... this is where you overlay the frames ontop of each other and begin making marks to determine center points of swings or arcs of movement of the limbs - again, take each one at a time... think in terms of a pendulum... and time and how to achieve 'ease in' and 'ease out' of movement over the frames... Ideally - you should begin with 'just' marking the center points for now and experiment with different postiions along the arcs when you get more experience.
(http://pete.ptoing.net/8%20frames%20EASE.gif) (http://pete.ptoing.net/pop_tweens.gif)
e. finally, once you have a straight forward 8 frame loop that's moving nicely, fluidly, but perhaps a little stiff? or evenly timed? This is where you can then go and add more frames and 'just' tweak those extreme frames a touch, adding a bit of 'over-reach' and 'break the joints' to give more 'snap' to the movement... as well as breaking the timing of the movement so you get ease in and out on the arcs movement (think about a pendulum)
(http://pete.ptoing.net/12%20frames%20OVER.gif)
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Here's a popeye sample from a sequences I knocked up when I first joined this forum - this sequence was made in this manner described above and took me about 1 hour to complete. (I'm not blowing my trumpet here as I know the sequence is less than perfect but i'm just trying to illustrate that once you have a process and understand form and mass then you can knock out stuff relatively quickly) - I also did a clever trick by combining the overeach into the tween thus reducing frames to 6... there's also example of 'crossover motion' and 'sine wave' motion (on the neckerchief) - again... important if you want to achieve good movement across a sequence...
(http://pete.ptoing.net/Petes_Pixels/POPEYE_WALK2.gif)
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<Disclaimer> - I'm aware this sequence uses 'selout' (or whatever the hell you guys call it) - but from my POV when needing to develop LOTS of frames for stuff then it's a great process, like it or not it's my preferred method because it's quick!
<disclaimer 2> apparently it's not selout... hmmm... my understanding of the term is obviously incorrect... Ptoings helped me out here... ;)
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Wow baccaman21!
I would buy you big ice-cream if you were in my town for this!
Seriously thanks for your time!
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Nice walking sprite, Joseph. I can see it's come a long way! And you're very good at shading and toning.
And Most awesome animated Popeye Sprite, Baccaman! It looks sooo good! I'm most impressed!
And your tutorial is really good! I learned some new things from it myself. heh