Pixelation

Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: BadMoodTaylor on May 14, 2016, 03:46:38 pm

Title: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 14, 2016, 03:46:38 pm
First attempt at a helicopter. Wanted to get some feedback and make any changes needed before adding the blade.

(http://www.badmoodtaylor.com/archive/051316/choppa.png)
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: Ashedragon on May 14, 2016, 11:40:42 pm
It's kind of flat. I imagine this has a little to do with how little contrast exists between the far-too-many colours in the image. A lot of said colours seem rather superfluous. And also because of the way the colours are used, there is a lack of definition and form. That, combined with all of the banding (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10498962/Graphics/choppa.gif) going on, just reads very poorly.

I'm not a professional by any stretch of the imagination, b-but I hope this helps...
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 15, 2016, 12:06:31 am
It's kind of flat. I imagine this has a little to do with how little contrast exists between the far-too-many colours in the image. A lot of said colours seem rather superfluous. And also because of the way the colours are used, there is a lack of definition and form. That, combined with all of the banding (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10498962/Graphics/choppa.gif) going on, just reads very poorly.

I'm not a professional by any stretch of the imagination, b-but I hope this helps...

Honestly, that didn't help much. 

Maybe I used too many colors that don't contrast enough? I could try adjusting that. Other than that though, I didn't see anything specific pointed out.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 15, 2016, 12:23:30 am
Try to reduce your black outlines, when you're trying to make a piece look rendered like this having those can hold it back by making everything look cartoony, and it can clash with the art to have it that way.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 15, 2016, 01:15:48 am
Some of the other assets I've done that wil go in this game I've use black outline and could probably say are somewhat cartoony:
(http://www.badmoodtaylor.com/archive/050516/before.png)
(http://www.badmoodtaylor.com/archive/050516/after.png)

Still think I should try it without the outline? I guess I should have mentioned that 'cartoony' is acceptable for me here.

I tried to get away from the black outline when I started but some people suggested I use it. So am a little confused—is it best to use outline if going for cartoony but not use it otherwise? Then again using them in games so doesn't blend with background is a different case.

Thanks
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 15, 2016, 02:30:49 am
Ah, in that case I'd say focus more on making it cartoony then actually.
Reduce how many colors you're using and try for a more cell-shaded look, maybe go for more pastel colors.
Ideally the art style should remain consistant between everything.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 15, 2016, 04:25:03 am
Original:
(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/051316/choppa.png)
Color & Shading redo:
(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/051316/choppa2.png)
2 color variations based on the redo:
(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/051316/choppa2var1.png)(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/051316/choppa2var2.png)

So based on @MysterMeat and @AsheDragon comments (thanks) I completely started over on color and shading.  I dropped from 8 colors to 5 and picked a more pastel palette.  Tried to stay away from banding.

Not sure if I like the original or redo more. I [cheated and] played with the brightness/contrast settings to try and tell if it is the palette or shading that I like/don't like.  I see some details to try changing but at this point if I had to pick one of the four to go from I'm not sure which one I would choose.  So will sit on it for a little while...

Any comments will be helpful!

Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 15, 2016, 05:34:34 am
Here, I reworked it a bunch and reduced the colors a bit to be more cartoony.
Notable changes includethe cockpit and the tailfin, the former of which should be a bubble in the front and the latter of which was changed to include room for the directional rotor. I also added an air intake, stripe, and the rotors, because it was easy and why not.

(http://i.imgur.com/U6kQOkN.gif)

There's other improvements that can be made here, this was just a quick thing I did, but hopefully it helps.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 15, 2016, 10:42:58 am
Thank you for the rework! It gives me a lot to think about—feel like I was making it more complicated than necessary.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 16, 2016, 12:46:37 am
Here, I reworked it a bunch and reduced the colors a bit to be more cartoony.
Notable changes includethe cockpit and the tailfin, the former of which should be a bubble in the front and the latter of which was changed to include room for the directional rotor. I also added an air intake, stripe, and the rotors, because it was easy and why not.

(http://i.imgur.com/U6kQOkN.gif)

There's other improvements that can be made here, this was just a quick thing I did, but hopefully it helps.

Is the white(ish) stripe through the middle supposed to be light reflection or a stylish pattern?
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 16, 2016, 12:59:21 am
A pattern, for visual flare
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 16, 2016, 03:57:27 am
That's what I thought—it looks great
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 16, 2016, 06:01:37 am
Update:

(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/051316/choppa5.gif)

I really like the choppa @MysteryMeat made but didn't want to try and replicate it exactly.  I made a couple of attempts before this one.  I decided to condense the helicopter a lot for this one- the compact model - as it might be less realistic but more cartoony/cute.  Also decided to give it a go at adding a pilot.

I really am liking this version . . . but will see what I change my mind tomorrow.

Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 16, 2016, 06:22:34 am
looks excellent! Keep up the good work
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 16, 2016, 06:26:55 am
looks excellent! Keep up the good work

Thank you and thanks a lot for the help!  :D
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: tsej on May 16, 2016, 10:10:48 am
Update:

(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/051316/choppa5.gif)

I really like the choppa @MysteryMeat made but didn't want to try and replicate it exactly.  I made a couple of attempts before this one.  I decided to condense the helicopter a lot for this one- the compact model - as it might be less realistic but more cartoony/cute.  Also decided to give it a go at adding a pilot.

I really am liking this version . . . but will see what I change my mind tomorrow.



There's some resolution mixing going on there, that tends to look bad.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 16, 2016, 10:27:09 am
Update:

(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/051316/choppa5.gif)

I really like the choppa @MysteryMeat made but didn't want to try and replicate it exactly.  I made a couple of attempts before this one.  I decided to condense the helicopter a lot for this one- the compact model - as it might be less realistic but more cartoony/cute.  Also decided to give it a go at adding a pilot.

I really am liking this version . . . but will see what I change my mind tomorrow.



There's some resolution mixing going on there, that tends to look bad.

I am not familiar with that - care to explain?
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: eishiya on May 16, 2016, 01:07:05 pm
Resolution mixing is when you have some parts of an image (or game, or whatever) at a different "zoom" than others. For example, the character is at 1x (1 pixel in the image = 1 pixel on the screen), but the helicopter looks like it's been zoomed in 3x or 4x before it was placed in the image with the character.
Keep all your assets in the same scale at 1x. If you want the zoomed in "blocky pixel" look, do it afterwards the entire resulting image, so that everything is zoomed in the same.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 16, 2016, 02:50:20 pm
Resolution mixing is when you have some parts of an image (or game, or whatever) at a different "zoom" than others. For example, the character is at 1x (1 pixel in the image = 1 pixel on the screen), but the helicopter looks like it's been zoomed in 3x or 4x before it was placed in the image with the character.
Keep all your assets in the same scale at 1x. If you want the zoomed in "blocky pixel" look, do it afterwards the entire resulting image, so that everything is zoomed in the same.

Ahhh, yes, that is what happened. I resized them both individually before putting into one image.

Thanks for the explanation!
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 22, 2016, 04:24:26 am
WIP

So with the scaled up helicopter I am trying to match the pixel resolution (won't make that mistake again!).

I haven't even gotten to most parts of the helicopter but posting this image to ask for help on the area to the right of the door. I have tried several things but am not sure what I should be going for:

(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/052116/choppaConfused.png)

The top one I was trying to make the area to the right of the door look curved.
On the second one I tried to make it look flatter. I thought maybe there isn't enough pixels and colors to make a curved surface look good there.

I've read that dithering shouldn't be used on shiny/smooth/metal surfaces, correct?

Maybe I'm making it more difficult than necessary and trying to make it look too realistic? I'm fine with it being cartoony so should I cut back on the colors and changing them so often?

Just a little frustrated right now so any suggestions on what to try appreciated.

Also, can comment on which pilot you like. Tried with out black outlines then with matching helmet colors to helicopter.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 22, 2016, 07:35:56 am
The problem seems to be the pillow shading, remember that you're working from a fixed light source! Try not to worry about shadows from the rest of the vehicle too much, you're working with a slightly simpler art style here so you can get away with small things like that here until you are more confident in your shading.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 22, 2016, 02:06:10 pm
The problem seems to be the pillow shading, remember that you're working from a fixed light source! Try not to worry about shadows from the rest of the vehicle too much, you're working with a slightly simpler art style here so you can get away with small things like that here until you are more confident in your shading.

To clarify do you mean to keep using pillow shading?

I think I was forgetting my light source at times.  Supposed to be top right but am in habit of straight-on slightly above.

Does this sum up your suggestion?

(http://www.lesforges.org/media/img/Blending6.jpg)


Tried to do some more edits. 

(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/052116/choppaConfused2.png)
Does it seem like progress?

Still have questions on:
   

Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 23, 2016, 12:56:50 am
oh, thats' a door? well there's a problem right there, aircraft doors tend to lie flush with the rest of the craft, so all you'd really need to shade there would be the seam where the door opens and closes.
Try to work from reference, it'll help.

Also, don't do the two-part shading thing with your metal gleams here, that's doing too much for what you should be going for here and it looks very out-of-place. Try to keep it to three shades for cell shading: Light tone, mid-tone, and shadow.
I also reccomend looking at some pictures of plexiglass to better understand how light contours around that kind of material.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: Reaper_Grimm on May 23, 2016, 01:12:55 am
(http://i.imgur.com/FQrgXVr.png)

Take it for what its worth to you but the bulkiness of the landing gear was really bothering me and I tried to mess with the shading around the door to make it less "bubbly"

Note: I am horrible at shading, it has never been my forte but I tried to edit the shape of the cockpit as well to make it less "Bubbly" as-well. Just a suggestion! Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 23, 2016, 03:54:06 am
(http://www.jacksonvillehelicoptercharters.com/images/sliders/jacksonville-helicopter-rides.jpg)
civilian-grade helicopters actually do have bubbly-looking windows usually.
The thinning on the rail was a good idea but I'm not so sold on the connectors, gives it more of a sturdy appearance.

As for the door the shading and door, I tweaked it a bunch from reaper's edit to better convey what I meant as well as tweaking hte door outline to look less eggy and more as part of the craft. I still think the thicker legs are better, but there's a lot of black being used to shade here and you should try to avoid that as it draws the eye too much and winds up looking way too chunky in most cases.
(http://i.imgur.com/Ty1BRCn.gif)
plus I animated it slightly again because it was easy to do

Remember, try to keep it constrained to three tones! you're trying to get a grasp on conveying form here, you can get into more advanced tricks like that light thing you're attempting once you get better at conceptualizing in 3d space!
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: Reaper_Grimm on May 23, 2016, 04:32:43 am
(http://www.jacksonvillehelicoptercharters.com/images/sliders/jacksonville-helicopter-rides.jpg)
civilian-grade helicopters actually do have bubbly-looking windows usually.
The thinning on the rail was a good idea but I'm not so sold on the connectors, gives it more of a sturdy appearance.

I'm still learning as a pixel artist but what I meant by a bubbly-looking cockpit was that it literally looked like a bubble was sitting on the helicopter. I cant explain it how I picture it but I tried to make it look as though the window part was more inset of the helicopter instead of protruding out of it.
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 23, 2016, 06:10:21 am
Thank you both for the input.  I will take it all into consideration and work on it soon.

I did start with a reference . . . but then I tried to improvise and make changes off the top of my head.  I guess that's where I got pretty inaccurate.

I do like the redesign you did of the cockpit glass.  I was intentionally making it 'bubbly'.  From memory I was thinking like this (Earthbound helicopter) but it's been so long since I saw that I didn't realize it didn't even bubble that much.

(https://img1.etsystatic.com/021/0/8951200/il_170x135.543845297_2v1o.jpg)

I also intentionally made the door bubbly . . . but I'm not sure why.  Maybe I was thinking about a spaceship hatch, ha.  Definitely would be flush to be aerodynamic.

When in doubt I'll use a reference more, thanks.

Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 23, 2016, 09:35:00 am
When in doubt I'll use a reference more, thanks.

 :y:
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: Reaper_Grimm on May 23, 2016, 04:35:10 pm
Quote from: BadMoodTaylor link=topic=20227.msg174396#msg174396
I do like the redesign you did of the cockpit glass.  I was intentionally making it 'bubbly'.  From memory I was thinking like this (Earthbound helicopter) but it's been so long since I saw that I didn't realize it didn't even bubble that much.


 ;D Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 28, 2016, 05:35:29 pm
Worked on it a little more this morning.  What do you think?

(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/052816/choppaCompactPix.gif)
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: Koyot1222 on May 28, 2016, 07:17:35 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/MLrqfUS.png)
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: BadMoodTaylor on May 28, 2016, 09:54:52 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/MLrqfUS.png)

That's some nice realistic shading. What's going on at the front though?
Title: Re: [WIP] Helicopter
Post by: MysteryMeat on May 29, 2016, 09:02:32 am
Worked on it a little more this morning.  What do you think?

(http://badmoodtaylor.com/archive/052816/choppaCompactPix.gif)


that looks ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT, friend! great work!