Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: JoeCreates on March 27, 2015, 12:52:42 pm

Title: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: JoeCreates on March 27, 2015, 12:52:42 pm
Anatomy, gestures and composition are some of my weak points, so I'm using this piece to practice. No rendering yet. At the moment I'd mainly like feedback on the aforementioned qualities.


The warriors left leg seems wrong at the moment. I was intending for her to be standing more over the sparks, but now I think I need to move the light around the leg a bit. Other than that, I haven't really figured out what to do with the chest area. I put some leather straps there, but the whole area seems like it could do with reshaping before I start on any details.


Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: cels on March 27, 2015, 01:56:49 pm
Anatomy and gestures are my weak points as well, but in terms of composition it does bother me that the sword is juuust partially out of view. I don't know if that's right or wrong though. Come to think of it, composition is another of my weak points.

i'm trying to make sense of what's going on though. At first I thought the skeleton was swinging a spear clockwise and there was some motion blur, just from the way the warrior is jumping out of the way. But then I started wondering if the spear was actually a scythe, about to be swung counter-clockwise. I guess it will be easier to see as you start refining it, but right now it's a bit hard to make sense of what kind of attack the warrior is jumping away from.

EDIT: Looks great by the way. Very cool atmosphere.
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: paste on March 27, 2015, 02:09:51 pm
i tried to draw a basic wire skeleton on the left character:


The biggest thing that seems out of place to me is the left arm. I think it would be much more natural to have a sort of arc from one hand to the other, going through the clavicle, kinda like this:


The neck is kind of long, too.

Also, from the layout and the direction she appears to be facing and moving, it seems like she's not so much leaping directly away from the attack as she is jumping sort of parallel to it. I'm guessing you want her to be more of the focus of the piece, so I would move the skeleton toward the foreground and have it face her, rather than have both of them face the viewer.

Overall, an exciting scene. Lots of movement.
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: JoeCreates on March 27, 2015, 03:40:24 pm

The weapon definitely looks too scythe-like at the moment. I'm hoping it'll look like a glaive eventually.


Your skeleton seems completely different to what I'm intending (but it's difficult to tell without seeing a ribcage). This is what I'm intending for the chest and left arm. She's meant to be twisting away. The lump on the right of her chest I think was going to be some kind of fabric over the breast area. Should probably delete and ignore that until if got the pose right.


I'm hoping to give the impression that she was caught off-guard, such that she is having to twist away from the attack, rather than a clean directly away from it. I'd also like her hand to be moving out of the way of the attack. Left arm seem a bit too high, still. Pretty sure with that elbow position her arm would be snapped off, so I guess I'll try that bit again. :P
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: Seiseki on March 27, 2015, 05:02:37 pm
The cut-off arm bothers me a bit. You could always draw it bigger and crop it afterwards. But right now there is too much tension on the left side.

And when I look at the sword all I can see is a weird L shape. The hilt seems to be perpendicular to the blade.

Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: JoeCreates on March 27, 2015, 05:28:32 pm
Here's a couple of changes. Moved the arm somewhere which I think is slightly more realistic anatomically, though the shape isn't quite as exciting.



I really don't like this position. I think perhaps what I actually need to do is move the head back so the shoulder can stay twitsed toward the back?
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: Friend on March 27, 2015, 05:39:05 pm
in the original it almost seemed like you were trying to depict something like her falling or dive-falling out of the way:


The recent edit is so much clearer, but there's a problem with the gesture...That is that the her gesture is not aligned with the skeleton.  Paste's last paragraph sums it up.  How could she be twisting away/dodging whatever if she is not even facing her foe?  I know you are trying to depict the face of the woman, but how you have established the perspective with the skeleton facing towards the viewpoint, you would have to draw the woman mostly with her back facing us to establish a connection with the skeleton and the scene.

As of now, it looks like she belongs on a 2d side scrolling environment since her gaze and gesture is so parallel to the viewpoint. 
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: JoeCreates on March 27, 2015, 05:55:51 pm
My intention with her gaze is that she starts off looking where the glaive hits the ground, seeing as that is what she is dodging, but then she is also in the process of looking away from the sparks.
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: cels on March 27, 2015, 09:47:54 pm
Although that's a hilarious gif, I don't think it's all that bad. And I agree with you, Joe. The latest edit is safer, but not quite as dynamic and exciting. You may be right that it would be better to move her head back, so you could still keep her shoulders pulled back as in the original. But pulling your shoulders and head back implies that you've trying to avoid someone hitting your head or chest, like Neo dodging a bullet in the matrix.

If you're trying to avoid a low blow towards your stomach or pelvis, it makes more sense to lunge your arms forward as you shoot your hips back.
(Couldn't really find a good example of this. I have no idea what I should google :P )

The direction you move your arms would depend on whether you're trying to move your head back or hips back, as you use your arms to get momentum.

I'm going to be quiet now. Like I said initially, I'm useless when it comes to anatomy, so I shouldn't giving advice. All I can say is whether I think something looks strange.
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: JoeCreates on March 28, 2015, 12:24:02 pm
I started rendering around the face to give a better impression of where the face is looking, moved the leg, and started adding some other details.


I think I need to vary the hues less overall. Thinking most red and yellow with only a touch of the armor color hinted at.
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: JoeCreates on March 28, 2015, 03:04:53 pm
[Accidental double post.]
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: Vagrant on March 28, 2015, 08:10:09 pm
This is a promising piece with attractive artistic choices here and there. I like the atmosphere, too.

But I didn't really understand much of the action taking place, or how that spear was even being swung, with sparks and flame down in the floor and yet the tip being up in the air, as if the speed of the swing had been lightning fast- enough to break those bones like a twig.

Here's some edits of mine to the poses, with the goal of making the action more obvious and dynamic-looking... It's far from perfect but it may give you some clues.


If you want to work over this one, go ahead, it's yours.  :y:

Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: Night on March 28, 2015, 10:54:07 pm
Is the falling position intended? It looks as if she's going to fall over and be at a pretty grave disadvantage, a disadvantage that is accompanied with a very open position (the sword and both arms being very far from the actual fight); I would imagine that in a dual you would not just keep your whole body so open to attacks.
Here's an edit with a pose that I think would look more balanced, while still not very steady (wasn't quite sure about the rear arm, the left option would probably give a more unbalanced feel). With also the sword extended closer to the fight.
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: Lexou Duck on April 01, 2015, 12:34:17 pm
eh i tried to edit the poses but it didn't come out too great
i wanted to make em both more stable yet still pretty dynamic


hopefully it still gives you some ideas
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: wolfenoctis on April 01, 2015, 05:15:11 pm
Quick pose suggestion:
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: dpixel on April 01, 2015, 07:30:18 pm
I've been watching from the start and love this...even at this stage.  Something about the movement and the colors you have really fits.
The only thing that bothers me is her left hand, which I'm sure you're not done with.  It seems to be the wrong shape.  Angle.  Not feminine.  Maybe even stands out too much compared to the arm.
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: Night on April 01, 2015, 10:25:26 pm
Just noticed this, a really small nitpick; you might wanna put a hair tie on so that it doesn't get in the way.
Title: Re: [C+C][WIP] Skeleton Battle
Post by: Decroded on April 03, 2015, 10:17:42 pm
Just noticed this, a really small nitpick; you might wanna put a hair tie on so that it doesn't get in the way.
OR some of it is being sliced off  :D