Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: neofotistou on February 24, 2015, 06:12:51 am
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So I need help. These are two versions of the graphics for StarrMazer, for which I'm lead artist.
The animated gif is my take and the other one is the work of the previous (awesome) artist.
(http://i.imgur.com/kU6nfWS.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/v2wYxXk.png)
Could I get some C&C please? Better? Worse? Weird? Not edgy enough? Too cartoony? Too Disney? The same? Is the pixeling worse? Do you prefer black outlines?
I owe a lot to pixelation, been a lurker for years. Hi, I'm Christina
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Hi Christina, welcome. I saw this at pixel joint, really lovely work :)
I think I can immediately say that I prefer your style, based mostly on the guy in the orange jumpsuit (the main character I presume?) it meshes really well with the background, feels more like a painting than a game which is nice. The dark outlines generally work but in the instance of the orange jumpsuit guy I think the advantage is clear, his thin limbs especially suffer from the boldness. Comparatively as far as pixel skill goes it's much of a muchness, you're both spot on. I like the cartoony-ness, I haven't read much about the game yet (:-[) but if you think it's appropriate then that's definitely your call as lead artist.
Couple of little spots I'd comment on are: The character tapping at the bar's hair doesn't read well, the light on her far elbow is also a bit strange. When Orange guy tips back his drink his jaw rotates around but I don't get the sense that the rest of his head does. On the blue blob guy, the dark blue under his eye reads to me more like a mouth or something, it's too dark, I don't get the sense that it's a bulge like I do on the original. Nodding guy's head is a bit off centre, and I don't really get the sense his head is attached to his body, I think this is a lighting issue, as he tilts his head down he should really get the brunt of the table light on it, the darker colour in his hair and beard is also possibly too dark. On the blue hair talking girl I think you need to pull a few pixels down at the top left curve when she tilts her head back.
Anyways just nitpicky stuff, in terms of big stylistic things I don't have a whole lot to say, looks awesome. Animation on the Hyper Light Drifter guy is also great btw.
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Personally I prefer outlines, I like the sharpness it adds and I really miss it here because it helped sell the comic/manga style of the game.
I think the original has a lot more depth due to the foreground silhouettes which I think adds a lot to the scene. It seems rather empty in comparison.
The Bright "laser" lines also helped convey a lot of the feel, but I can see how those might be problematic since they clutter up the place. Having more light effects like the arcade machines and such flashing in the background would be an awesome touch..
I also think the light from the tables should light up some of the characters a bit more.
The glow overlay, although not usually a part of conventional pixel art, was a pretty neat effect.
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I actually prefer Jeremie's black out lines, however you've got a lot of pixelling to do so may as well go with your own style!
Maybe you can do a bit more Sel-out (selective outlining or broken outlines) as he does and meet somewhere inbetween? (as you have on the hair with the nodding figure on the left)
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hey neo nice klingon and space quest references :lol:
re outlining it looks nice to not have it but then having it looks nice plus makes the character pop against many different backgrounds which is important.
the problem was that everyone had an outline except the actual hero which should have highest priority.
I cant see too well on my phone here but it looks like ur back crowd layer has too much atmosphere vs the wall that is further behind it.
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I really really liked the originals, to be honest. Really sharp. Strong identity. Draw-over's a little muddy and un-focussed in comparison.
Hero in the original stands out, but belongs in the scene, hero in the new one looks like he doesn't belong in the scene yet doesn't really stand out.
These criticisms are only really evident to me because of the direct comparison, it's certainly not bad at all, but there's a lot I miss about the original. Appreciate it's still a WIP.
HLD's animation is really nice. :y:
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I'm seeing screenshots of this game for the second time as I am a friend of the producer from Murder in hotel Lisbon.
I think that if you never said anything we wouldn't be able to say it was a different style. there are differences, sure but it doesn't look like a different game. I think its a matter of darkening the outlines really.
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I don't see any problem really, in fact i think it looks better than the original XD All i see is improvement, not diferences.
Besides that i had nothing to say, besides "im a fan of that proyect :D"
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The Super Best Friends were just taking about this and how awesome it looks! I can see why especially with this.
Only thing I can really say is that the characters without animations kind of stick out because of it. Everyone else seems so animated, partly because the ones that are have brighter colors.
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Personally I prefer the one without the outline, just so it has less of a "cartoonish" feeling to it and it really blends with the background.
But to be honest? They look similar in style and awesome nonetheless, really good work!
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I don't like the black outlines on the original at all, so I think you've improved greatly in that regard. I really like how exaggerated everyone's heads are when they talk. But I do like how the original one looks busier. I think that you should at least put some silhouettes in the foreground.
As an aside, it kinda looks like that guy playing the arcade is masturbating. :lol:
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I personally like both styles. And I may be wrong about this, but I feel that your work often has less hard outlines and highlights and relies more on contrast between large clusters and bigger fields of colour. I sort of feel like that's your style, and it works very well in this piece, as in others.
This piece is a good example.
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/92604.htm
I feel like there's so many places most pixel artists would add more dark outlines and/or bright highlights. I'm fairly sure I would have known this was yours without looking at who uploaded it.
So keep developing your style, I say. It works well here, as it does in your other pixel art.
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Kinda leaning towards the first artists rendition.
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-missing the foreground people in the animated one.
-Not sure what the black cluster at the top left is supposed to be (if it's a light like the others it's perspectivically incorrect)
-Also there appears a visual tangen tin both renditions - it's how the purple light in the middle interacts with the clear cut 45° line of the green light from the bar
Slimo def. is nicer in the newest rendition
guy left to him looks anatomical off in the newest rendition
Bricks outline could be toned down by a value of 10-20% in the newer rendition
All in all really great work, so just minor nitpicks which caught my attention.
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Thank you everyone.
So all in all, black outlines around and inside the sprites are missed by some. And of course more people in the shot.
My immediate concern is this: Do the lack of black outlines make the new rendition less adult, less "anime"?
(http://i.imgur.com/QQwX4M3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/m5FGvvB.png)
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wait wait! if you are going to add outlines PLEASE don't make them jagged like that!
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Some jagginess is inevitable, when you have to outline the whole sprite. But yes this is sloppy work just to get an opinion on whether losing the outlines is good or bad.
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I guess I mean more like double corner pixels. Those are the devil's work
here's what I mean: Yours, double pixels, my fix
(http://www.marcovale.com/public_img/pixel/starrmazer.png)
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yes, but my question is do you prefer your corrected version, or the no-outline version?
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And to be even more specific.
(http://i.imgur.com/sS8FHKe.png) or
(http://i.imgur.com/sm5fGYP.png)
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yeah the one with the outlines. I like that one better.
but I do feel that the characters with outlines are interactive. so maybe not have them on the ones that aren't... as a gameplay gimmick
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If you look at Jeremie's original it's not actually just dirty big black outlines. It's sel-out. The outline is a combination of lightsource and material darkening. It's pixel art at it's most sublime from one of the genres masters.
I guess it's an unenviable position though, people funded this project based on his aesthetic which must now be emulated as he was only the concept artist. (if people are unfamiliar with his work I recommend watching Truckers Delight NSFW)
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Hawken take it from me. It's just black outlines around the whole of the sprite, it is not selout. It only looks like that because of the layer effects.
I sense there's a note of "you can't emulate this master of pixelart". I assure you that's not it. Banding is rampant in Jeremie's sprite work and even background work, it's very good but I owe it to myself to see if it can be better. I'm trying to find a way around it while retaining Don Thacker's (not Jeremie's) preferred style. And yes, that's a difficult thing.
Truckers delight has fantastic animation. It is NSFW and also full of misogyny.
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Truckers delight has fantastic animation. It is NSFW and also full of misogyny.
Yeah not to derail, and I get that it was 'silly', but that was pretty gross on a lot of levels.
In regards to your art. You might want to consider using the lines not only as a stylistic choice or shading technique but as a method to create focal points on key characters. For example, 'slimo' in your first version really pops due to that light outline. But some of the other characters are a little lost. That can also be useful, reducing the focal point on background or superfluous characters can be good for the scene. But I'de assume Mr Mazer wouldn't be one of them, as he is in that case. I might be wrong.
On that note I find your newer version with the outlines a touch distracting in comparison. Assets are now fighting for my attention a little and the scene has lost a bit of it's painterly feel. Your partial outlining in your original is a little untraditional, but I actually think it looks quite nice, and adds a distinct flare. Overall lovely work, obviously.
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But I do like how the original one looks busier. I think that you should at least put some silhouettes in the foreground.
I agree. Nice call bringing back the soft table light emissions.
Coloured outlines for sure, or maybe even non-existent. With the general clean feel of the scene and the way all the character move and stuff I don't think readability is an issue. Black outlines look a bit at odds with the colors and shading imo. But I agree it's a good way to differentiate interactive things from the bg.
I dig the characters and their animations btw. They rock :)
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Hawken take it from me. It's just black outlines around the whole of the sprite, it is not selout. It only looks like that because of the layer effects.
Ah! I guess thats a cheaper way. ;D
I sense there's a note of "you can't emulate this master of pixelart". I assure you that's not it. Banding is rampant in Jeremie's sprite work and even background work, it's very good but I owe it to myself to see if it can be better. I'm trying to find a way around it while retaining Don Thacker's (not Jeremie's) preferred style. And yes, that's a difficult thing.
Ah sorry if I came across that way, it's hard being a british on the internet. (I shall use smilies from now) This will be a challenge but you certainly have the skills to match and surpass it, your work really is awesome.
Truckers delight has fantastic animation. It is NSFW and also full of misogyny.
His other stuff is also mind bendingly gross... I actually had to break ties with someone after they posted that video on a female friends facebook. The artistry is there though, It would be hard not to call him provocative and a master of his genre... much like Hieronymus Bosch intentionally grossed people out and that was in the 15th century! :crazy:
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@hakwen Thank you for the kind words! Your tone was fine, do not worry.
And the artistry is totally there in all of his animation!
The intentionality is in the grossing out, and doesn't bother me. The misogyny is unprocessed in my opinion. At best I think it's meant as "ironic" misogyny (and rape, and gendered violence, and homophobia), which is actually worse.
In any case thank you everyone for the awesome replies.
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I must be the only one here that prefers neofotistou's original take over the other versions. It's a lot cleaner, simpler, less bulky. reads better.
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I must be the only one here that prefers neofotistou's original take over the other versions. It's a lot cleaner, simpler, less bulky. reads better.
Do you mean the one by the "previous (awesome) artist" ? I agree that it is cleaner (probably because of the outlines and whatnot). I would like to see how that translates to animation, which might be what makes the newer version look more complex and bulky.
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I must be the only one here that prefers neofotistou's original take over the other versions. It's a lot cleaner, simpler, less bulky. reads better.
You are not the only one Cure. :) I concur. The original is still wonderful but a little busy and unfocused in comparison.
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I cant remember if I voiced my opinion already but like neo's as well
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a lot of the pixel choices don't me as much to me as overall effect each version has.
I see Neo's as clean, but quite empty, not in a negative way. It feels kind of less busy; abandoned, business isn't booming. This could be used advantageously, such as to generate suspense or interest in a list of ways such as:
1- "talk to x dude in this outdated bar", drawing interest to why the dude hangs out in a less popular area.
2-a calm before a storm.
For the original, I see it as boisterous, also not in a negative way. It feels busy, a pleasing chaos that you do find in bars. This could also have been used advantageously depending on the scenario.
1-"find x dude in this bar", drawing interest potentially to a posse or even to his personality as a more chaotic bar can be more party esque.
2- confusion or discovering an answer amid chaos
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personally I prefer the original for these reasons- your version does not feel as abandoned as the original felt boisterous. In that way I do not think it would be as effective or poignant as a setting which can carry a story. It seems more apt as a backdrop, which is of course not in itself bad