Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: grue on December 23, 2014, 01:17:53 pm
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Started work on some art for an RPG and realised I have no idea how to make anything in this perspective and have it look good. (Yes, I know. I could use the practice.)
My last attempt at a field sprite:
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_field_down.png)(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_field_right.png)(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_field_up.png)
Another sprite (not meant to be used for anything) that looks somewhat better, but still far too cute for my liking:
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_sketch_2.png)
What the character is actually supposed to look like:
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_outfit.png)
The problem is obvious, heh.
Not sure if anti-aliasing the outline is a smart thing to do, but I figured, since I've already decided to use gradients and other non-kosher techniques, I might as well do it to make the sprites blend in better.
I'm also unsure about the art style in general. I'm planning to paint some of the assets due to their size, so I need to ensure nothing stands out as obviously done in a different style, but I'm not certain I can pull it off. The player party and menu here, for example, are probably going to be pixel art and everything else - painted.
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/mockup.png)
Is this even a good idea? Can it be done well, or should I just bite the bullet and prepare to pixel many large, blurry and mostly featureless backgrounds?
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I can't see any of the images, Copying the image URL doesn't do much for me either, as I lack permission of some sort.
You can use Imgur instead.
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Sorry about that, it's been a while since I last used it for linking things. Is this better?
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Images are working fine now on my end.
(http://imgur.com/RQMnmYk.png)
I think you should not make the entire body of the character black, but shade it a bit. Maybe not like in my sloppy edit, because I'm assuming the form of the jacket isn't meant to be conical.
If you AA the outline to pure white, it'll look wierd on darker backgrounds, so i'd suggest not doing so.
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If you AA the outline to pure white, it'll look weird on darker backgrounds, so i'd suggest not doing so.
I agree :lol: When you set your sprite over a dark BG, it'll have a weird outline...
You can paint the BGs no problem, I think some games have done that... It's not going to look bad unless there's noise or the colors blend.
Just try it out and fix the things that look bad as you go, but it's not going to look bad just because of the clash of different "mediums". :)
As for the field sprites, you just have to "tilt the base" away from the viewer. :P
The typical top-down view has the characters tilted slightly downwards (you can see the top of their heads and the top of their shoes).
You don't look at them from the side (as you have them right now) nor do you look at them from the top (where you would only see their head and some shoes sticking out)
It's kind of like a 3/4 perspective, except here it's vertical tilt and not horizontal :)
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I'm going to be anti-aliasing to transparent, not white. The only reason the backgrounds are white is that it's easier to work using different colours than different transparencies (and some programs don't support that, anyway). It takes about a minute to convert them, so it's not much of a problem.
Regarding the perspective issues - the sad thing here is, I'm well aware of what I'm supposed to be doing. I just failed at it so thoroughly that it looks like a side view instead. I have a bit of a problem drawing characters in perspective in small resolutions without making them look like little people and went too far in the other direction here, I think.
As for the colours - I see what you mean, but I'd rather not touch them until the more obvious issues are sorted. I'll need to make some more mockups before I can figure out what to do with them, anyway.
Tweaked the sprite a bit - it looks a little better now, at least to me, but there are probably plenty of things to be fixed that I'm not seeing.
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_field_down_2_t.png)
Thanks for the advice about the backgrounds - I don't think I've seen any games that mix paintings and pixel art, other than some terrible RPG Maker projects, so I wasn't sure.
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IDK I kinda like the original better. When I started an edit it was giving a heavy tribute to the original.
(http://i.imgur.com/kqjmt0E.png)
The original just looks more interesting and matches the concept art's proportions for her better.
as far as critiquing the recent one I would just make the torso look thinner, move in the legs at the hip,
and lastly make the arms look a little more dynamic
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Do the AA to transparency indeed. That'll work best and it'll mostly work on any background.
Your pose looks very boring, kinda like my avatar. It's an old RPG trope to make characters that look like lifeless dolls, we should strife to get away from that.
Your latest one seems to be better in terms of perspective. NowvaB's edit has a few nice changes, but that perspective is a step in the wrong direction I feel.
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Tried to get rid of some of the straight lines, as suggested. I didn't make it too similar to the edit, since she's the main close-range fighter and needs to look a little more 'solid'. The original looked less stiff, I know, but I'm not fond of the 'fighters looking like adorable school-age kids' thing that's so prevalent in the RPG genre, so...
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_field_down_3_t.png)
The pose is still boring, but since this is meant to be a base for walking animations, I don't think it matters much. I'm considering making larger, visual novel style sprites for conversations, anyway, since the field sprites are relatively small and the faces can't be changed much. It would be more work and might look a bit odd with two different representations of a character visible at the same time, though, so I haven't decided yet.
Edit: Worked on it a little more. The perspective looks wonky to me now, but I could just be too used to how it looked before. Also started another character, but that one doesn't look like much of anything yet.
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_field_down_4_t.png)(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/agata_field_down.png)
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Made some more adjustments (for the last time, I hope) and a few animations. I'm not sure if breathing animations are even needed at this size, but there it is. As for the walk, a person I showed an unfinished version to said that she walked like a model, which doesn't fit the character at all. Is it still an issue?
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_field_down_idle.gif) (https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_field_down_walk.gif)
Also started making some tiles for mockups, but I can't decide what to do with the walls. The first option looks less flat and better overall, at least in my opinion, but what I've done with the perspective there could make Escher cry. Even if it kind of works for small rooms, it might look bad when used for anything larger (haven't tried it yet). Painting everything with proper perspective would obviously be the best-looking option, but this wouldn't ever be finished if I tried that and it wouldn't work for larger maps either, so it's not an option.
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/post4.png) (https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/post4_2.png) (https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/post4_3.png)
Does anyone have any advice on what to do here or suggestions of games I could use for reference? All of the ones I could find either looked as flat as my attempt (Final Fantasy and most of the others) or mangled the perspective so much it was hard to tell what was going on (Legend of Zelda).
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I like your walk animation and most of the things you've made so far, I especially like small mockup with three characters and monster.
Background color is very appealing and it creates nice atmosphere. I don't know why but in your room mockup that atmosphere is missing. Also if you want to make walls in perspective wallpaper ornaments should also be in same perspective, cause now walls and wallpapers work against each other.
In walk animation there's white pixel line between arms and torso which looks strange. Here's my edit. Body movement is maybe too much but I experimented just to give you idea how you and add more life and movement into this animation. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/xOiF3r8.gif)
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Any better? I didn't exaggerate as much as you did, but the movement should still be noticeable, especially on a darker background. It's a little choppier than before, but adding more frames made it look much worse, so I'll leave it as it is for now.
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_field_down_walk_2.gif)
It's just a guess, but I think the atmosphere is different because I didn't colour the tiles by hand - I'm not done scribbling on them yet and didn't want to waste any time in case something changed drastically, so I just added a colour overlay. It looks a bit lifeless, I agree; I'm not going to leave it like that.
I admit I have no idea how to make a tiling wallpaper ornament in perspective. This is the best I can do, I'm afraid. If it looks bad, I guess I'll just scrap it.
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/post4_pattern.png)
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Much better. :)
I admit I have no idea how to make a tiling wallpaper ornament in perspective. This is the best I can do, I'm afraid. If it looks bad, I guess I'll just scrap it.
Like the wall ornaments should be wider at the top and narrower at the bottom, but this could be very tricky and it would be a waste of time. After all if you like it you keep it you don't have to follow all rules. You can maybe try to add some 1px vertical stripes in perspective that are not very close to imply wallpapers but to avoid complication. Experiment and you will see. :)
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A repeating pattern like that is technically impossible with only one " tile" being repeated. If you look at how LoZ does it, there are multiple sections of varying scales: the small ones of course at the bottom and large ones at the top. However, with 2d game art we often do not have a problem suspending our disbelief with such things; what you have now could certainly work as a stylistic choice.
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If you need a simple room an example is from a game called Earthbound it has that type of style thats similar recommend the second or third game(Earthbound 2 or 3)
EDIT:The First Image has a example of it => http://walkthrough.starmen.net/mother3/chapter7_2.php
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Made a third variant with slightly less broken perspective. I'd completely forgotten about Earthbound; the third game has the least odd-looking rooms I've seen so far. Thank you.
I'll try the layered walls if something looks very wrong but for now, it'd probably be more trouble than it's worth. (And I'm kind of fond of that pattern, even if it does look a bit unfortunate if one looks closely.)
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/post4_1.png)
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You could add a vent in the top right corner.. or a poster? But still I love the room ;D
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Is that moon/sunlight being cast onto the floor through a window? If so there shouldn't be any noticeable foreshortening given that both celestial objects are fricking far away.
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I'm not sure if it's intentional, but the perspective on the bed seems off. The left side should be more up and down, unless you're tilting it for stylistic reasons.
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(http://i61.tinypic.com/14bhyt3.gif)
How about some shoulder rotation and a little lifting of the leg?
It *would* change characterization a bit, some movements might be possible to deemphasize, but just an idea
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I... don't know why I foreshortened the light patch. Maybe the reference photo being taken from a very different angle had something to do with it. Regardless, I'll fix it when I next work on the room. Thank you.
About the bed, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you think less of the top plane should be visible, or...? Though I agree, the perspective is a bit screwed right now - I forgot to edit some things when I changed the far wall.
As for the sprite - the movement could stand to be a little less stiff, I know, but I'd rather not make it that exaggerated. Her walk is meant to resemble marching more than anything else.
Sketched out all five playable characters. Most of them are nowhere near being done and the palette needs serious work, but it's something, I guess. The middle one is actually supposed to be ~50 cm taller than everyone else, but I couldn't figure out how to convey that without messing up the perspective. It also looks unnaturally stiff, even for a robot, but I'm not sure it's something I can fix, considering how lanky the character design is.
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/all_2.png)
Also made a quick menu portrait. The hair is a bit flat, but I rather like how the large areas of solid colour look, so I'm considering leaving it as is.
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/ennea_icon.png)
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Polished the field sprites a bit more. I'm not quite happy with them yet (the limbs on the second one are especially bad), but at least they don't hurt to look at any more. Also worked on the palette a little, but some maps aren't even sketched yet and I haven't decided what number of colours to go for, so I can't finalise it.
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/all_4_t.png)
Edit: Forgot to include the palette. I'll probably need to add more colours later, but for now, is there anything I ought to fix?
(https://googledrive.com/host/0BzgrRPJDliIRb3dMdENESXVham8/palette.png)
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I like small color gradient in middle one, but last two are my favorites. Very nice. :)