Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Judas on July 23, 2006, 07:18:27 am
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(http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/persephone_thumbsdown.gif)(http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/2fold-b.gif)
One of my characters and a one of a friend's. First two back after being out of practice for far too long. Thoughts?
Also...sup? I may be familiar to some, but I'm not sure. Doubt it.
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hello, welcome to the forum. Could you clarify this a bit for me:
and a one of a friend's
Why one? Do you mean the design is by a friend and the pixelling by you? All of it by a friend? Just a line-art sketch by him? If so, could you post the original reference?
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Persephone is a character of mine. Twofold (http://www.illmosis.net/twofold_index.php") is a character of Prime Op's. What you see, however, was all done by me. The Twofold sprite is a few weeks old, while Persephone is fresh. Any critiques/comments/whatever?
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hey judas! i think i've heard of you before, yes. there is something about you converting kof-sprites into sf3 style or something similar in the back of my head. and i'm pretty sure camus/conceit knows more
both those are very nice. i can't really think of any real crits atm. though i'd love to see some more unconventional pallettes for this kind of sprites, or a shading style less geared towards an easy to animate one
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I love them, the second one looks amazing. Both have interesting poses and characters with a very bright light source/ smoothly coloured style. Nice work.
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Well, this is looking pretty good. I do find it hard to see Twofold's right hand (our right). I assume he's doing the ninja sign, but it's blending with the white shirt. I'm also a little unsure if Persephone's shoulderblades can meet in a pose like that, but as her shoulder is dissolving, I can't really tell.
And of course: Welcome to the board.
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The chick's back looks like a butt.
>_>
These are sweet. I'm not a fighter-sprite person, so no crits form me.
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I guess my suggestion is, oddly enough: more colors, more rendering, more detail, more information, more contrast, more variation, more fries.
(http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/persephone_thumbsdown.gif) (http://www.locustleaves.com/persephone.gif)
which arrives in the end at a different style, quite more difficult to animate, but that's another thing. Behind the color edits which you can take or leave, there's a lot of a)clothing ideas, about wrinkles, highlights hue variation, whatnot, and b) anatomy crits you might want to look at, mostly about curves, girly thighs and waists and other such concepts I like to think about when I am alone in the night.
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Not so sure about such a drastic style change. Don't get me wrong... it looks great. It's just not what I've got in mind. Some changes have been made following your suggestions, though:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/ruinsofeden/persephone2.gif)
and for comparison...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/ruinsofeden/comparison.gif)
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Yeah, I guess one buffer shade is good enough for this sort of work. But no anatomy changes? I thought those were the useful parts of my edit.
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Yeah, trim those thunder-thighs. They're thicker than her ass. Also, check out Helm's shoulder-blade edit in terms of the shape/location. Etc.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/ruinsofeden/persephone3.gif)
That's about as scrawny as I'm going to get with her legs. She ain't meant to be a model, per se, but I guess I can tone her down a bit.
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Definitely a step up with this update. The new colors work, as well as the wrinkles along the bottom of her buttox. I'm also glad you didnt add colors to the hand. The 3 on it now work perfectly, and dont distract from the main character's body. Great work once again. You definitely took it up a notch with this one.
Helm: Dont like thick woman? =P
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Not particularily, no.
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Haha, figured. But, I think there is a difference between Rosie O'Donnell, and the other extreme, Paris Hilton. XD Theres a beautiful middle ground that gets all my attention. Hello J-Lo!
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In my humble opinion, Helm's edit doesn't look skinny ;)
Both sprites are really good. Are you going to make a game?
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Haha, figured. But, I think there is a difference between Rosie O'Donnell, and the other extreme, Paris Hilton. XD Theres a beautiful middle ground that gets all my attention. Hello J-Lo!
I wasn't going for skinny. I was under the impression I modified it to an athletic but full figure.
On a sidenote I wouldn't base my taste in women on a person who has transformed themselves into a brand. I am more interested in real people. I don't really know this Paris Hilton or this J-Lo and I wouldn't care less about them.
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Wait, I dont even understand the second part, and how it relates to this topic. Me mentioning those obviously famous people were for you to get the reference in body type, not that a necessarily idolize, or gawk at those particular woman. Paris Hilton = extremely scrawney, and shapeless, while J.Lo (Jennifer Lopez) has a nice shape, and a unusualy large bottom.
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I get you and I understand what you mean. Just a personal thing, I try to not help spread these (viral marketing) memes out too much. You could have said 'scrawny' and 'full-figured with unusually large bottom' instead of the names, for example, and I'd have understood you fine. I was thinking on what it means when we do this [regurgitate brand names to make examples], and my line of thinking led me to some -tenuous at best- conclusions (about brand inflitration in everyday life and popular culture), based on which I've grown a personal distaste of the practise. I didn't mean any insult.
Sorry to go off-topic, it seems I do it more and more lately, I guess I need vacation time!
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pixelosophy.
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I tested an edit based on what pictures I could find of shoulderblades in motion:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/SnakemanEXE/Shoulderblades.gif)
Can't quite know if it's correct due to the shoulder halfway missing, but this what my reference told me at least.
I also made slight edit to the buttocks as it was pretty "bulgy" rather than 'in use'. They're longer and the muscles should be following the figure now. I also added a crack on the right cheek (our right) that appears when the muscle in tightened and/or the body is balancing on it as in this case.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/ruinsofeden/persephone4.gif)
You, sir, are the man. I guess that explains the oddness I noticed on her right cheek before. Didn't realize what it was, but now I understand why it looked so wrong without even the outlining I had before. The sad part is that I consciously thought of that and how CvS2 Chun-Li sprites have a very good example of possible shading. The back...well, I have no excuse for the back looking like it did.
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Double posts suck, but here. Have another:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/ruinsofeden/kaze2.gif)
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oh, nobody cares about doubleposts as long as their not pointless. nice new sprite, the shading of the chest reminds me of sf3 style shading.
now there are some problems with the anatomy. it looks like the torso was pushed down between the legs; the navel here would actually be lower than the coccyx, and the ribcage seems to extend too far down too. the head's too small, and the neck is a bit short. her breasts look almost conic and somehow affixed, they need to hang more and you should leave a little gap between them.
she looks like jacko
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(http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/kaze3.gif)
A little better? Maybe?
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(http://www.locustleaves.com/music/kaze.gif) (http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/kaze3.gif)
I'd suggest you break out of the habit of drawing things you've seen being done in your references (other fighter sprites) and run an additional layer of judgement over them. Why would a material such as this (some sort of latex) hug abs to the degree that light would define them as they are now? I don't think it would. Chest still too low, and the breasts, where they'd fall due to gravity, would obscure the sceletal structure underneath that would create the -currently overdone- chest identation effect you've got going. You're too concerned with stylistically representing all the muscle groups you've seen in fighter sprites than you should be. Just because Capcom shows ab structure through shirts and latex doesn't mean you should, possibly.
Too many broken lines, I don't think they all serve a purpose. There's a difference between too lineart-dependent pixel art, and just single or two-pixel noise.
Poisture is too stylized and stiff. Nobody would draw their hands so much behind their torso. Nobody would have such stiff shoulders. You might be thinking 'game art' but I am seeing improbability. I don't know if this is a problem only with me or with others too, maybe I'm asking too much from 2d fighter sprites.
about thighs and legs in general, you seem to draw outside curve against inside curve, the leg is currently
( )
x <- knee
()
which isn't wrong, but it's not exciting. Try curve against line or breziers that have sharp points... google 'contrapost'.
\ )
x <- something like this. sorry for ascii.
|/
Material of suit is highly reflective, SELF-reflective, the works. Consider the fabrics more. Where there's edges light creates speculars. Color-wise, you're not experimenting with hue variables and your saturation's almost constant as well. Maybe you should look into that?
The reason I'm giving you both barrels is because you're good enough to be stuck in this level forever. If you've started out with the dream of making good fighter sprites, you've done it. The next level is to break out of their cliches, I think, and to go back to medium-less design theory, anatomy, that sort of thing. Not to say your pixel tech is top of the top, but you could probably be there if you fix your linework, your highlights and work on your color selection a bit more.
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(http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/kaze5.gif)
Some changes made, others...well... let's be honest, blatantly ignored for various reasons. Am I willing to be flexible? Sure. Completely compromise my style? Eh.
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Your stuff is certainly not bad, but i don't think you have a unique style going on.
Do you get an own style from copying KOF and SF sprites, and doing a similar style? I don't think so.
You are merely reurgitating capcom and snk. If you are happy with that, fine. But this forum is ment for people who wanna grow in their medium (here obviously pixelart).
You don't develop a style by copying. In general a style is developed best by drawing from life and experimenting every now and then.
Doing this a style will emerge automatically. Also I do not think it is a wise thing to settle down on one perticular style, one trick pony comes to mind.
Also there are some things one can say is a bad style choice, and i would agree with Helm that the broken lines are one. They just make stuff look dirty and unclear imo. Why does capcom and snk not use broken lines like that? Simple, because they made designchoices to depict their stuff in an as clear as possible way and broken lines like that and animation don't mix.
Just my two cents.
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Completely compromise my style? Eh.
Suit yourself. Style is an artificial limit.
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You are very good at making nice sprites - i just find you a bit rude. Helm's edit is so fucking awesome and then you just say that you can't be bothered to change it because of your "style". If someone of helm's stature was to edit my work, i would be honoured enough to try and match the quality of the edit.
Your sprites are good, but if you want to improve you must go the extra mile.
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(http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/kaze6.gif)
Some more changes. Mostly the broken lines that no one seems to be able to make their mind up on. At his board, people hate it to death, at others I visit people I respect like the broken lines. But, you know, whatever. Personal preference, I guess. Done away with some but not all of them, upped the contrast in the palette a little, and made some other adjustments. I may as well do what I can to branch out, alter my typical methods, etc. What about now? While I don't want to go as far as Helm took it, I'm willing to make compromises. Well, now I am. Feron I respect, so sure. Helm's "stature" is another matter entirely, however.
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Relax, no problem, nobody has to do anything because they were edited. I understand his opinion completely even though I disagree with it. The outcome is that I stop trying to 'help', and that's fine.
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Whats the damn problem with imitating a style that one finds attractive? I mean, just because someone isnt spriting what you are accustomed too, doesnt mean that they are stuck in some kind of "artistic" rut. Thats just the direction they chose to explore.
Alot of the so called "C&C" is all opinonated, no, VERY opinionated. I keep hearing "copying off SNK/Capcom" this and that. C'mon now. Just because he isnt spriting large pics of random ducks, floating heads, 64 x 64 role playing sprites, and landscapes with trees and bodies of water doesnt mean he isnt progressing in what he does, or enjoys rather. I mean, if he so wanted to be hired by someone, which by now, I'm sure its all in fun and not for that purpose, and is a hobby, and he more than likely doesnt WANT to do other kinds of "Pixel Art", he wouldnt have too much of a problem adjusting to the world of "No limits and spriting restrictions" which I am seeing here.
You are merely reurgitating capcom and snk. If you are happy with that, fine. But this forum is ment for people who wanna grow in their medium (here obviously pixelart).
You don't develop a style by copying. In general a style is developed best by drawing from life and experimenting every now and then.
You are very good at making nice sprites - i just find you a bit rude. Helm's edit is so fucking awesome and then you just say that you can't be bothered to change it because of your "style". If someone of helm's stature was to edit my work, i would be honoured enough to try and match the quality of the edit.
Your sprites are good, but if you want to improve you must go the extra mile.
Fucking wow. Most of the alterations became personal preferences. And because he doesnt "go along with", trash what HE wanted, and suck up the suggested changes, he's "rude", and the what not? Shut that shit up. Everyone here is their own person, and I'm sure Judas doesnt hold him [Helm] as some high and mighty pixel artist, with this "stature" you speak of, ptoing.
This so called idea of "improvement" is also what I find, idiotic. Maybe this is the style that he WANTS to be great at. What you guys deem as "improvement", I see as all out chaos. Alot of work I've seen ends up just being messes. No order, color limits, or anything solid. Just how much color can I splash here and there, for the sake of making this look less like it could be a game, and more about the e-dickery I can get at the forum. Dont get me wrong, alot of stuff I see here is awesome, but thats your work, and your style. Forcing it upon someone else where it isnt really needed/wanted, is faux. Some people "sprite" with the idea of actually MAKING a game, as with the tech nowadays, is extremely easy to do by oneself. With the style he's shooting at, the simpler (read, less complicated) the original sprite is, the easier it is to lets say, pump out 300 sprites of the character on. Just a thought.
(http://www.locustleaves.com/music/kaze.gif) (http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/kaze3.gif)
Too many broken lines, I don't think they all serve a purpose. There's a difference between too lineart-dependent pixel art, and just single or two-pixel noise.
Poisture is too stylized and stiff. Nobody would draw their hands so much behind their torso. Nobody would have such stiff shoulders. You might be thinking 'game art' but I am seeing improbability. I don't know if this is a problem only with me or with others too, maybe I'm asking too much from 2d fighter sprites.
You said it.
Final word, get the sticks out of your asses.
EDIT: Relax, no problem, nobody has to do anything because they were edited. I understand his opinion completely even though I disagree with it. The outcome is that I stop trying to 'help', and that's fine.
There we go.
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On helm's last post:yes...it's honestly freaky when someone's abilities grant them some kind of undefiability in other people's minds, thankfully Helm doesnt take advantage of that, but guys be careful about idealizing people, no matter how cool they're just another guy like you.
Sol...no need to go pointlessly berserk on everyone
I think we could do better just discussing things calmly. You're doing the exact same shit you complain about only you add namecalling on top of it.You dont understand Helm's (or whoever it is you're screaming at) or his reasons, if you really are less stuck up than him then show it by being open minded and not bashing his style whitout getting it. The namecalling just puts you below any point of civilized discussion.
I think there could be a better attempt at critizising this whitout taking it completly out of style regardlesss of where it coming from, it is obviously about harsh contrast jumps generated by a harsh cenital light and clean expressive details.
But it is still no reason to attack the general populace of the board.
just keeping that in mind will make the crits much more useful, I'm sure judas would be glad to see new ideas that expand the expression tools in this style. Look at Snake's post for a good example of being open minded about the subject you critique
PS Miascugh: No this isnt the guy you think, the guy I taked about was Efex, but Judas hangs out at the same board....so I see where you're coming from :p
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I dont mean to come off as "bashing his style". Like I already said, I like alot of the work here, they just dont fit the style Judas is aiming for is my point. And I'm very calm. Its hard to get the right feelins and emotion through typing on the internet, but I can assure you the post is meant as informative in another perspective (Judas' in this case), and not an angry retort.
And yes, I am a very prominent member of that forum aswell for the record.
EDIT: I see, its Camus. This is Kairi.
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I like aspects of both styles, and I dislike aspects of both styles.
No style has to be compromised, you can just do both.
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Excuse stupid layerquote.
You are merely reurgitating capcom and snk. If you are happy with that, fine. But this forum is ment for people who wanna grow in their medium (here obviously pixelart).
You don't develop a style by copying. In general a style is developed best by drawing from life and experimenting every now and then.
You are very good at making nice sprites - i just find you a bit rude. Helm's edit is so fucking awesome and then you just say that you can't be bothered to change it because of your "style". If someone of helm's stature was to edit my work, i would be honoured enough to try and match the quality of the edit.
Your sprites are good, but if you want to improve you must go the extra mile.
Fucking wow. Most of the alterations became personal preferences. And because he doesnt "go along with", trash what HE wanted, and suck up the suggested changes, he's "rude", and the what not? Shut that shit up. Everyone here is their own person, and I'm sure Judas doesnt hold him [Helm] as some high and mighty pixel artist, with this "stature" you speak of, ptoing.
Sol: I suggest you put on your reading glasses. You bash on me for something Feron said, wtf? Ptoing, Feron, Ptoing, Feron, sounds and reads quite different, no.
And watch what you are typing, you have no reason to be pissed about anything, noone addressed you in the first place.
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Forcing it upon someone else where it isnt really needed/wanted, is faux.
Nobody is forcing anything on anybody. It goes without saying that all my opinions are just that, opinions. Why is there a difficulty in understanding this? I am a total relativist, seriously, I don't even consider scientific fact to be objective and binding, much less art critique. I'm just bouncing ideas here. I am not responsible for what special significance the reader attaches to my opinions in any way. My only obligation is that of a honest demeanour, meaning, I try to help by editing and critiquing.
Your attitude can be taken as confrontational, like you've got something to get off your chest that is perhaps bigger than the circumstance in question calls for. As far as it centering me, I don't mind much, but try to keep it on-topic and on-scale otherwise. I don't disagree with what you're saying, really. Everyone here will get critiqued by different people with different aspirations and life experiences and they will filter what they need through it. This is a constructive dialogue to that point. This isn't a 'fighter sprite pixel art board', I'm sure those exist, aren't you from one such? You'll find artists drawing duckies and bodies of water here, aren't their opinions interesting?
Now, somebody putting hours of editing work and writing lengthy critiques about one's pieces and not even hearing a 'thank you' for the effort, regardless of whether you agree with it, just tells me this person is ungrateful for the critique he's getting, and that has a simple end effect: I stop caring. That's fine, there'll be other people that will still care and help the person in ways they'll find more constructive, and that probably have stronger tolerances for ungratefulness than me. I've been on this board for years and years and I've critiqued and edited more than anyone else here, because of course I enjoy it, but hopefully helping a few people along the way. I just get tired fast when I don't see response to my critique. I don't really care to find out what Judas' problem with me is, as long as it doesn't affect the forum.
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You missed my point, and majority of that was more so directed at the "me too's" who posted. Now, what you missed with the second edit was that what you did, wasnt the style he aimed for, and instead for a second time, ddi extra stuff that wasnt in the criteria that was aimed for.
ptoing: No fucking duh I wasnt adressed, but gee goly wiz, I sure as hell adressed you.
EDIT: Your right. My apologies. You werent the one with the stature" clause.
EDIT: Because ptoing also cant read as he so said I suffer from, I doubled sized, and bolded my first edit here.
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You carry on talking in Judas' behalf. If the style I went for isn't relative to what Judas is trying to do (and I understand how this can be the case) this doesn't mean you can't thank people for their effort and take it into token consideration. 'Blatantly disregarding' would insult me if I were insulted easily. I do what I know to do and maybe people will benefit, maybe I'll benefit, maybe there'll be a good discussion explaining the disparate styles. This is critique. Nobody needs this drama.
Also, please talk better, and pay more attention. You adressed Ptoing for something Feron wrote. That was the error he clearly pointed out, so your 'I wasn't adressed but I sure as hell adressed you' really makes no sense. Be sensible, calm down, state your case, we can discuss this. Don't get in your fighter stance :P
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Ok Sol, scroll back up and look what you quoted, i NEVER said anything about the "stature" of Helm, Feron said that and also the rest you replied to was towards what Feron said.
What I said, and i will rephrase it here, just copying a style, no matter if it is a choice, does not make you grow as an artist.
And I tell you this Sol, if you keep being this impolite for no reason whatsoever or bash on people who did not even say what you address them for than your stay on this board wont be a long one.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Clearly, this business has gotten out of hand. Do I appreciate help? Of course I do. Do I always listen to the aforementioned help, no. Certainly, though, not a soul among us can say they always listen to what people say, do, recommend, suggest against, or whatever the case may be when they offer their help. Are they good edits? Sure. Of course. Do I disagree with parts of them? We wouldn't be carrying on like this if I didn't. I'm sure they'd work perfectly with the edits you've done for some folks (as members of this forum have pointed out), but I'm just not down with the whole sharing of palette objects by every element of the character's design. Not sure if it's trying to be alternate palette friendly or what. And yes, I do love CvS sprites. For the record. I've never been a big fan of that whole mostly desaturated palette thing you seem to have going on. I can't please everyone, and I'm not going to try. That would be attempting the impossible. HOWEVER, I am willing to compromise. So... that being said, Helm, I apologize for not seeming appreciative. That's not the case. I guess I'm just not used to seeing my stuff get drastic overhauls and venture in an entirely different direction than what I wanted to take it in.
Long-winded version done, breakdown rapidly approaching. Approaching like the bosses in Darius. Yeah, we've gotten off on the wrong foot. Helm, Feron, everyone else who has critiqued to some degree or another... help a brother out. Whatever stubborn-ness I had in my system is gone. Honest injun.
And uh... refer to the disclaimers before interviews with film makers and whatnot before you read Sol's post. You know... the one about how the views and ideas contained are not necessarily shared by <such and such>. Judas = such and such, in this case.
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ptoing: I made the appropriate edit in regards to that. You should read my edit. And dont start the childish "I'll get you banned" threats. I'm here, we are discussing this, and thats that. While the remark about you and the stature reply was off, the rest of what I said still stands.
Helm: Also, regarding him "brushing" off the edit, he took to heart most of what you said, and even made his own alterations here and there. He did state however that he didnt want to compromise hi style, and thats it.
EDIT: Well, thats that.
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Judas, I read you. No worries. Sorry if I seemed judgemental as well. Let's carry on.
Sol: Keeping the forum going as it should is not childish business. If you insult people, you'll get warned, you'll get warned, you'll get warned. And then you'll get banned. You were insulting people, you got your first warning.
Yes, judas edited his pieces after my posts, which is why I made a second edit after the first.
edit: oh and for clarification
but I'm just not down with the whole sharing of palette objects by every element of the character's design.
I tried to keep this in mind, as I guessed, so there's not much palette sharing. And I didn't mess with your saturation to any degree, just some hue shifting. Most of my editing in this thread was, and still is about anatomy, structure and light more than specialist tricks like palette unity.
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well sol you prolly made that edit when i was posting and it was not there when i started writing and i could not be arsed to heed the other message warning.
if you wanna talk further about this, pm me.
I am not being childish, just saying that we have a strike system here and if you keep being impolite like this than that's that.
I am just asking for good behaviour and I am not trying to opress anyone, but we have rules, I agree to them and i am here to keep them up.
Now everyone cool down or I will lock this thread, the people who this i about have resolved and there is no need to brag on about this.
Keep it on the pixelcritique not bashing.
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The last edit I made to that post was six minutes after your last post, in response to your last post. The first initial edit however, was in fact, prior to your last post. Theres a way to check that using the forum settings, if you so in fact deem me lying.
Anyway, I'm not here to shake things up. I merely saw something I felt needed adressing, from my view.
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Judas, you've got a really nice set of sprites there now. Would look ace in a game. I especially like the lady in red, she looks ubercool. Are you going to animate them?
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(http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/kaze7.gif)
More editing done, as per Helm's suggestions, Camus (or whatever the hell name he goes by this week! =P)'s's's's suggestions over at PCS, and a couple of other sources of input, as well as a little experimentation of my own. Anatomy hasn't changed much, because I can't get that leg looking right any other way. It's not like I'm done with this thing anyhow, so...maybe one day! Also, to hell with secondary light sources. I hate you, latex. No, that's a lie. I'm sorry, old buddy.
Larwick: If I were less lazy, sure. I'd like to animate them, but I'm not sure I have the motivation. This tablet is working out, though, so we'll see.
Edit: Changes on the legs. I tried to make it more like Helm suggested, as far as the curve goes. Sup?
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WOAH - Lets take a time out. I didnt mean to cause this many posts on a totally irrelevant subject. I guess it mainly does come down to style, and therefore personal preference. My bad. I didnt mean to be confrontational, just some advice. And Sol WTF do you purposefully try and cause trouble about things that dont concern you?
I think the latest edit is great - looks a lot better. Reading up i never commented on how good i thought the first 2 were. I think the one with the giant hand is a great character and you pulled it off rather well.
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It did concern me. I was concerned. I also didnt like the piggybacking you proceeded to do. No apology there. Also, its over and done with. Leave it at that.
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There's something about the anatomy of the chest that was bugging me, so I pulled out my handy-dandy anatomy book to check. I think you could use a bit more of the lightest skin shade directly above the breasts so that they smoothly flow into the chest rather than just bubbling out of it the way they are now. I also think that the shadow on the stomach should be a bit higher, if it should be there at all. Look up some references, try fineart.sk or something similar.
Other than that it's pretty sweet, nice improvement from the first version!
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well well...I hoping that all the fuss is done now...
Ok, hm...first of all do you have any design pics of these girls? I'm not really sure what kind of look you're going with each one of them, for example the red one strikes me as tomboyish but that might be your choice.
This is why I always insist on reference, it's excluding for those who want to crit but just dont happen to know the design you're spriting beforehand.
Might I ask just what parts of your style you think are imposible to "compromise"? personally I enjoy the CVS harsh cenital lighting style, and the clean expressive lines, though I'm not so keen on selout/broken lines. I'd like to know what you think selout adds to the sprites.
For the Venom-ish girl, I understand you are trying to make the butt as round and big as you can, but I think you've put the cheeks too far apart, I belive it looks more realistic and sexier if you get to see a bit of the tighs sticking out from the sides of the butt, while the two round cheeks sit tightly in the center.
I think you're still oversimplifying the back anatomy, her back and her butt are at a diferent level of rotation, but I see now sign of twisting on her lower back to show that, also the shoulderblades might be very prominent, but you are resalting them in the exact way even though they should be in very different positions (kinda makes em look like armor rather than bones)
The shoulderblade in the background should be tilted like this /o if the o is the girl's back (just trust me I tried it out in the mirror :P) anatomy might complicated and take a lot of knowledge, but just a mirror can do the trick if you dont have that like me :sagatlaugh:
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/judas-kazeC.png)
I think the shoulders of the red girl are drawn on a really awkward way, I dont think you would've drawn them like that if you didnt have the collar in the way, because they stick up whitout actually raising the clavicles so she looks a little inhuman.
I also made the shading of the collar a bit simpler and better contained.
The breasts are a little too balloon shaped, in the center they almost have a male pec-ish look, I edited them to have more of a waterdrop shape.
You forgot one of the (IMO) coolest thing about CVS that only the things facing upwards get highlighted, so I edited the bicep-tricep part of the arm to be darker....
Her knees looked too robotic/artificial for me, so I edited them to be more human-looking.
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I think the highlight on the boobs are to strong.
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Pawige: Something more like this, perhaps?
(http://judas.i-xcell.com/sup/kaze8.gif)
Feron: On the skin itself, the boob part of the suit, Conceit's edit, what? I tried to address all possibilities in this update, but I'm not entirely certain I did that.
Conceit: The design pics I have of these girls are on a bunch of different scraps of notebook paper, backs of forms from work, and a thousand post-its. Yeah, I am disorganized. Most of the designs are being developed along the way. For example, she never had the necklace before, but she did have shades, which I now realize would probably crowd the face.
Edit: Modified per Feron's suggestions below.
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small edit:
(http://imagehost.ensellitis.com/images/1124008943.gif)