Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Luke on November 14, 2013, 05:01:53 pm
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I've been working on these tiles for quite a while now, they're still very much a WIP
I had been posting them on the WIP section of a different forum, but wasn't receiving the feedback I would have liked.
So here I am to try out this community.
All C&C/Edits welcome and appreciated.
(http://www.pictureshack.us/images/78651_Tiles.png)
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Hey, these are very cool, but what kind of feedback are you looking for? Part of the reason you may not have gotten any responses is that people don't know what you specifically want to discus about your piece. Give us a bit more to work with. ;) This community is happy to help and will hopefully be a good fit for you, we just need a little more to work with. :) Good luck!
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looks good!
though at first glance i thought the cobbled road was a wall, I think that might be down to the shading on the cobbles not denoting a particular direction of the light..
also id use more contrast in the pavement, the lines showing us the paving slabs seem too close to the colour of the slabs themselves. same goes for the greys on top of the building's buttresses
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That's a good piece but if i had to say something everything looks too 'clean' and without texture to me. But maybe that's what you were looking for. I would add more details maybe what you don't like about it is that everything is too 'conventional' and less 'interesting'
Also the pier look like there is a 'parquet' on the floor and those square thing (which i suppose are beams) are out of place. Why do the beams go trough the pier columns/trunks? I can't find a better picture but you can have a look a this for understand what I mean.
http://harold.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Cayucos-Pier.jpg (http://harold.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Cayucos-Pier.jpg)
I hope it helps.
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Whoa, this is strange. I don't think I've looked at these forums since shortly after I posted this thread. My first time back and I've received three replies in the past two days. Better late than never I suppose.
I've continued work on these tiles, slowly but surely. Below is where I'm currently at with them. It would be great if I could get some more C&C. In regards to Âme's comment, there's nothing in particular that I'm really stuck with. I would really just like comments and critique from different perspectives.
(http://www.pictureshack.us/images/23004_TIles2.png)
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It looks pretty good, but I think the colors can be a lot better. Right now they're all pretty blah and homogeneous. Get some more saturation and contrast in there. Also, it's hard to work with massive images like this. Better to provide the components, or at least a smaller use of them, so people can tinker with it for feedback. I messed with the colors a little bit:
(http://s28.postimg.org/mrbxc7y31/23004_TIles2.png)
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Yeah, I'm intentionally going for the low sat sort of washed out vibe.
Sorry about the size :(
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I think the palette could use a bit more attention too. Maybe you're going the wrong way with the hue shifting, it may work better to do a bluer light and warmer shadow. That way you can up the saturation and contrast but still have a dreary look.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/SharmClucas/q1xbr1uo_zps7067242f.png)
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I've got to say, I think I prefer my dreary, washed out colours. Thanks for the edits though.
Also, finally bought graphics gale and made my first animation tonight. It took many painful hours ):
As always, more C&C would be great on any of these things.
(http://i.imgur.com/Pa7Ml2S.gif)
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I don't think it's too muted or dull, but i do think it's a tad washed out and pink,
you have some really bizarre mixed perspective going on down through the image, which i can't really help with at the moment,
but something easy to adress I can identify is the way you have been lightin different planes/surface angles, without any overall consistency, here's an edit with both colour adjustments keeping within your mood, and also suggestions like shadows to reinforce the dimension, and the most important part, lighting each plane angle, there is some evidence of this in your image but it's not being applied consistently enough, it means you have to limit the value range of each surface to better represent it's angle, otherwise it will read flat. for example in the illustration at the bottom, the ground angle plane is brighter, so have any flat ground angle surface a brighter value range.
As you are trying to establish a clear read on the dimensions it's important to put consideration into this kinda thing, hopefully this helps.
(http://i.imgur.com/H1DDZjn.png)
also a warning with props like those barrels DON'T side light them, it'll make them look out of place with the rest of the environment, try keeping a top down lighting regime. also they are out of perspective, make the lid more circular, just like those jetty posts.
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just noticed something that looked odd to me, where the brick butressess meet that stone wall. heres a few ideas i had
(http://i.imgur.com/YjqiCK9.png)
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Thanks for the edits guys.
@Probo: While your edit certainly looks more three dimensional, I'm really trying to work within 16x16 tiles.
@Grimsane: Your edit helped quite a lot. Attempted to fix this issue in the edit below.
I think it's an improvement, but still needs to be tweaked. C&C please.
(http://www.pictureshack.us/images/4137_Pixelation.png)
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Top building:
The windows are too big, and too low.
Same with the door/gate. The change in width of the door's top "rim" shows a dynamic POV that is dissonant with the rest of the piece's flat perspective. (Also, the "rim" ends at the bottom along with the surrounding walls, instead of lower, killing the effect of it being in front)
The borders of the building are perfectly touching the sidewalk, with some measly little squares of grass in the corners...
This suggests that there was an empty land allotment (or however they're called), and then the building was constructed there.
That idea seems unnatural here, because usually some space is left between the building and the street.
I'd either expand the grass/ground section of the allotment, or simply remove it completely (change it to concrete or something) so that the idea conveyed is that the street was built around the building and not the other way around.
The sea/lake is way too calm, it needs some waves/ripples.
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I'm having some trouble with the perspective on the columns at the bottom.
Help on this or C&C on anything else would be great.
(http://www.pictureshack.us/images/73031_123.png)
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You've removed most of the interest by removing the contrast in the wall tiles, though the sidewalk and cobblestone look better with the new colors.
Sharm's edit made your dreary look much more interesting to the observer (who are you creating this for -- you, or an audience?) and Probo did your construction some justice (an extra 16x16 tile or two I don't think will hurt to make your buildings visually appealing, unless it's a limitation on the game engine, though if that's the case, you might want to try a more modern one). As I don't like to be an ass about this kind of stuff, I do feel like people are offering you an awesome amount of help and you're just saying "meh, I don't care what YOU think should be changed, I like it because it's mine, so I'm not doing that. But help me some more."
That kinda defeats the point of critique, doesn't it?
If someone brings up something about your art, although it doesn't always need fixing, it does always need addressing in an objective manner. I almost didn't respond to this post because I thought you were being an ass at first by tossing (experienced) people's advice aside and saying "I like *mine* better." without ever trying to incorporate even a little of the advice they were giving you. Even if you do like yours better, you don't have to change your entire art direction -- just try adding a little something new to it. After all, drab colors or not, your windows are still too low and too large, and someone has already tried pointing that out already to you, which you also ignored.
I posted to this topic because you have potential, and I don't like that to go to waste. The most important thing I've learned about art is that the more you think you know about it in terms of style or technique, the less you really do know. That's why you should really try to take in everyone's advice to some extent and try to make it work for you in a way that you are satisfied with. Otherwise, critique is useless to both you, and to the person taking the time to hit that reply button, hoping you'll not ignore their time and energy (the older you get, the less you have of it after all, so the more valuable it becomes to you).
Just food for thought.
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Shouldn't your base lines match the curve you have already established upon the segmentation of your columns?
BTW I agree completely with astraldata's critique of your colors. The walls are almost entirely unreadable without focusing really hard on it.
As I understand it, detail work on pixel art is best accomplished when you imply texture with your efforts and color choices. When a viewer sees the work, that information should be relayed at first glance. <--If they have to look closely and focus on an asset to read it properly, there is probably an issue there somewhere that could be addressed.
My eyes barely read the details of your bricks on this version. They are too low contrast between shade and highlight for me to see without squinting and staring at it.
Other critiques I could offer:
Some of your shadows especially around the corners looks too boxy to match the surface.
The shadows of your columns seem to be going at an angle where the other shadows and highlighting implies straight on or from forward and above lighting. (They don't match)
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In regards to astradata's deeply philosophic post: I appreciate anybody who takes the time to try and help me here. I think I've made that appreciation quite explicit. You sir, come off as quite patronizing though.
In regards to the lack of saturation on the walls. Below is my reference. That is the sort of texture I am trying to create. Any suggestions?
(http://i61.tinypic.com/1ze8u4z.jpg)
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In regards to astradata's deeply philosophic post: I appreciate anybody who takes the time to try and help me here. I think I've made that appreciation quite explicit. You sir, come off as quite patronizing though.
Maybe so. Wasn't my intention. I too only meant to help out. However, your appreciation, or lack thereof, wasn't what I was talking about -- it was simply that, as I was considering posting to your topic, and read this topic thinking "wow, look at all the great advice this dude is getting and just passing up; it apparently isn't worth my time to post about it... he'll probably ignore my advice too." -- then I'm sure there is someone else thinking the same thing as well. It was more a heads-up to you so that you might prevent that sort of thinking in the future with how you (didn't) respond thoughtfully to thoughtful critique. I wouldn't have mentioned it had I thought you had no appreciation for the critique. I was only trying to help you score a bit more.
With that being said, I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot.
As far as your reference goes, it's really not that useful in the circumstances you're trying to use it in. Aside from perhaps construction lines, further use of this reference for lighting or color selection is not a very good idea. The wall portion is very weathered and old, plus the lighting is overcast and makes everything look dull and washed out, which sucks the vitality out of *any* image and is simply not pleasant to look at for any length of time, much less for a video game like an RPG you'll be looking at for an extended period of time. No amount of amazing gameplay will ever make someone want to look at washed out dreary images like the reference. There's a reason photoshop has an extensive set of color correction tools. ;P
My only suggestion to fix this saturation issue is to keep in mind the ambient color you want in the scene and whether you want the scene to be cool or warm, which will help you determine that. As far as I can tell, you seem to be mixing both cool and warm colors in your scene without regard to any unifying ambient color -- if you had one, I'd assume the wood on that dock would reflect that. In pixel art, the color of a single pixel doesn't matter as much as the color all the pixels combined give to the overall image. This is equally true in scenes such as yours. References can only help you so far with that though.
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I'm back again with a slight update.
Mostly the base of the columns, the windows and the street light.
As always, I would love comments and/or criticism.
(http://www.pictureshack.us/images/65746_TIles2.png)
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Contrast and saturation consistently low makes image boring to look at.
You could at least consider more contrast between vertical and horizontal surfaces.
You can't argue against such a basic technique as that.
It also seems a bit pointless to post here just to ignore what seems at a glance to be good feedback.
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As you can see, after Grimsane's advice I turned up the contrast considerably between the vertical and horizontal planes.
If you look at the Lamp I just made I think you will also notice that I am trying to increase the overall contrast between my colours.
In fact I am not ignoring advice, but simply do not know how to implement it all as I am still learning. No need to be unfriendly.
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In fact I am not ignoring advice, but simply do not know how to implement it all as I am still learning. No need to be unfriendly.
If you don't understand advice given, why you don't simple ask?
If you ask the right questions you will get the right answers.
If you don't ask, it's easy to think that you just ignore good advice.
Turning up the contrast between colors won't help if you don't seperate planes clearly.
The overall contrast is really low. It's stillv really low, although you turned it up.
Maybe it's because the darkest colors (at least of the lantern) are really bright, but that also could just be my impression, since I love dark shadow tones and I just looked at the lantern.
the contrast between planes of different direction is not really there in all objects, at some yes, at some not. That can be fixed by using different colors for top planes and front planes - same principle as with the dock poles.
Consider how i upped the overall contrast and the front and top plane seperation.
(http://abload.de/img/2014_4_19_lanternorfa1.gif)
If you look at your lying barrels you can see that they are just flipped and that the lightsource don't changed.
Also the light on the metal rims comes from the other direction.
there is no consistency of lighting.
The same issue might appear in other graphics you will make/made.
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As you can see, after Grimsane's advice I turned up the contrast considerably between the vertical and horizontal planes.
If you look at the Lamp I just made I think you will also notice that I am trying to increase the overall contrast between my colours.
In fact I am not ignoring advice, but simply do not know how to implement it all as I am still learning. No need to be unfriendly.
Don't take it as being unfriendly.
You've bitten of quite a large canvas, how about working on a smaller section with some horizontal and vertical bits, some different textures and some props in the scene?
Simply cranking the contrast in Photoshop shows a huge difference.
Here's another quick edit to give you an idea:
(http://i.imgur.com/jub96Hu.gif)
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Whoa, both of those edits look phenomenal. I'm definitely sold on increasing the contrast, especially between the various planes. I'm a little discouraged at the idea of having to revise all of the tiles I've already made. How would you guys suggest I go about doing this? I don't own Photoshop but I think contrast can be automatically adjusted in graphicsgale as well. Would it be advisable to simply highlight the entire image and bump up the contrast this way, or should I approach it in a more manual fashion?
In regards to Cyangmou's comment about the barrels: yeah I realize the light source is incorrect. I use the area in the bottom left of the canvas for just playing around with things. Suppose I should edit that out when I post here.
Thanks for the help guys.
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You can select an individual color and change it to another over an entire image with graphicsgale in several ways rather easily.
There is no need to redraw every tile and element by hand.
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Whoa, both of those edits look phenomenal. I'm definitely sold on increasing the contrast, especially between the various planes. I'm a little discouraged at the idea of having to revise all of the tiles I've already made. How would you guys suggest I go about doing this? I don't own Photoshop but I think contrast can be automatically adjusted in graphicsgale as well. Would it be advisable to simply highlight the entire image and bump up the contrast this way, or should I approach it in a more manual fashion?
In regards to Cyangmou's comment about the barrels: yeah I realize the light source is incorrect. I use the area in the bottom left of the canvas for just playing around with things. Suppose I should edit that out when I post here.
Thanks for the help guys.
As mentioned, I suggest you create a screenshot sized canvas and add in some elements to create a scene rather than working 3000x3000.
Sorry I'm pretty new to Gale (just did my first animation the other day!) and haven't figured out the palettes yet.
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Okay, quick question before I go ahead with this.
(http://www.pictureshack.us/images/23377_Question.png)
So assume all of the lighter surfaces are horizontal and the darker surfaces vertical. Despite being different hues, the brightness of all of the vertical surfaces are the same as one another, as are those of the horizontal surfaces.
My question is, is this how it has to be? For example, since the top of my dock tiles, my grass tiles and my road tiles are all on a horizontal plane, do they need to share the same brightness value? Even if they don't have to have exactly the same brightness value is this a good general rule to follow?
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They don't have to share the same values, but they have to share the same relative value difference between the top and wall tile.
Just go by the the rule that walls are always darker.
Also keep in mind that some colors will be naturally darker while others are brighter. Yellow for example is very bright, red is very dark.
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So assume all of the lighter surfaces are horizontal and the darker surfaces vertical. Despite being different hues, the brightness of all of the vertical surfaces are the same as one another, as are those of the horizontal surfaces.
My question is, is this how it has to be? For example, since the top of my dock tiles, my grass tiles and my road tiles are all on a horizontal plane, do they need to share the same brightness value? Even if they don't have to have exactly the same brightness value is this a good general rule to follow?
no it depends on the material and the light.
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Alright, so I've been working pretty hard to rectify the problems highlighted above. I've made an effort to increase saturation and contrast. I've also made an effort to make the tiles more interesting to look at.
I'm still not finished fixing the underwater portion of the walls and dock supports. I also intend to fix the bits of grass that silhouette themselves against those sections of the wall. I'd like you guys to let me know if I'm on the right track so far though. Any C&C on what I've got so far would be massively appreciated.
(Is it just me or do the direct links to images in this thread appear slightly distorted?)
(http://i.imgur.com/4mO4v5z.png)
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Okay so I'm hoping the silence means my last post was an improvement. More than likely you guys are just tired of me.
Anyways I'm going to try to trouble you again for some criticism/help.
I've changed some colours and done a bit of work on the dock/waterfront area. Wondering if I could get some advice on how to make the water seem more like water. I'm specifically having some trouble with the wall reflection. I can't really wrap my mind around how a reflection of an object like that would look from the perspective I'm using. Any help on anything would be greatly appreciated.
(open image in new tab if you want non-distorted version)
(http://i.imgur.com/BBJRhBc.png)
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You're slowly cranking up the contrast, but you need to be more extreme..
It's incredibly easy to get used to low contrast and even raising the contrast slightly might seem like a huge deal, but it's not enough..
You need darker and brighter colors in selective places and you could really brighten up that grass..
Maybe your monitor is has some whacky settings, or you simply need to get your eyes used to higher contrast.
Take the image reference you posted and use the color picker to check those colors..
Try adding some hueshifting as well, like adding more blue to the shadows.
btw, if you want a better software to draw in I'd recommend this: http://pyxeledit.com
You can create a tileset and then build a mockup and any changes you make to the tileset will be visible in the mockup.
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It seems like whenever the good people of pixelation suggest anything to you, there is a lot of resistance on your part and very little attempt to change. The great part of digital art is that once you make a change, you can still go back to whatever way you liked (if you don't prefer the new). Try to follow everyone's advice to the extreme, even if you doubt them.
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@ Seiseki
-When you say more contrast are you specifically talking about the contrast between the two different planes or just contrast in general?
-I have been doing hue shifting, although only as far as deep red for shadows.
-Any chance I could get you to do a quick edit? I find that helps much more than text.
Thanks for your help.
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Try to perceive what mood and climate your colors express.
Visually your image really reminds me of where I live --> Seattle area.
Because of the constant clouds, there's a joke around here that shadows don't exist --> also kind of not a joke.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-edqiVXatb9M/U3VmEvlc1PI/AAAAAAAAJyc/l9mK7CdS3QI/s1600/seattlestuff.png)
It looks cloudy, wet, clamy and a tiny bit cold.
Even still, up close there is still contrast.
If that's what you're going for you could still boost the contrast and add other visual cues to reinforce the weather.
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-Any chance I could get you to do a quick edit? I find that helps much more than text.
In terms of colors, you've gotten a beautiful edit from Decroded. Use it as a guide; it addresses many issues with your current color scheme.
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@PixelPiledriver
-That is exactly the atmosphere I'm going for. I'm trying to create a 1920s-30s, smoggy, industrial, waterfront sort of atmosphere.
-I'll definitely have another look into boosting contrast.
-I thought Seattle was a beautiful city when I visited. Try living in the UK. Eternal grayness/dampness.
Thanks
@Crow
-I used Decroded's edit quite a lot to get to where I'm currently at. In terms of colour I've used the same yellow-red hue shift that he has. I'm also pretty sure my contrast between the different planes is as great as his is (minus the angled, dark shadow he's got going on).
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Decroded's edit inserted into your current version. (http://i.imgur.com/R6wy0mG.png)
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Attempted to turn up the contrast between the two different planes. Not sure if I prefer it or not.
http://i.imgur.com/CRLEhVN.png?1
Before: http://i.imgur.com/BBJRhBc.png
Okay, I feel sort of stupid now... But I think the discrepancy we've been having has been caused by my monitor. After doing this "magic tune" thing to my Samsung monitor, the tiles I've been working on suddenly appear very grey, dark and very low in contrast.
Very discouraging realizing I've wasted so much time with this.
At least I've found the problem though.
Thanks to Seiseki for suggesting this as a potential problem.
While I'm here, anyone know how to check the correctness of monitor settings other than the method I used?
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http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/)
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Alright guys, back once again.
Original: http://i.imgur.com/BBJRhBc.png
Updated: http://i.imgur.com/I47SAZE.png
I think the contrast and saturation should be acceptable now. Please let me know what you think.
I'd really like some C&C on the water. How can I make it look more watery? How can I improve the reflections in the water?
All other C&C welcome as always.
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I'm new here, but here's my opinion for what it's worth. It looks like a picture you might see on a monitor with the contrast & brightness turned down too low. I think Decroded gave you an edit above which made that part look far better, which you didn't use.
Contrast aside, one of the things I liked about Decroded's edit was it looked more realistic. There are a lot of dead straight lines in your image, almost like someone built the building with a ruler. Even the shadow going down onto the water is a straight line. I've seldom seen water still enough to get a shadow like that.
I guess the other thing is the shadows seem a little strange - sometimes the light source is from the top-left but there are a few walls in there that generate no shadows?
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Figured I would post this here since this is where the original was posted over a year ago.
Spent the weekend overhauling these tiles.
Still looking for C&C if you guys wouldn't mind.
(http://i.imgur.com/nzyHBlu.png)
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its good to see ur still improving these are starting to look rly nice :y:
a couple things stand out..
the large base bricks seem a little too rounded in the way they're shaded and the one joining the metal get suddenly cut off.
If I get time later I'll try to edit with another option.
structurally I don't think we'd see such thin pillars of such small bricks as the only thing supporting a multi story building but maybe that's just me overthinkining it ???
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Hey thanks.
I actually used one of your previous edits as a reference to try and improve the 'big bricks' this time.
(http://i.imgur.com/knh9L3f.png)
You're right though, they could definitely be more irregular.
About the railing, it gets cut off because of the way it tiles. But yeah, I'm pretty dissatisfied with the way it turned out. I might get rid of the whole thing and try a simpler design.
Edit: Oh I think you were referring to the big brick getting cut off. This is a tiling issue as well : (
In regards to structure, I present to you my reference photograph:
(http://i.imgur.com/F1gdja2.jpg)
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I think you are overcomplexifying those big bricks. Your focusing a lot on each individual brick, adding in a lot of defined shading and deep shadows, this might be how the eye would see an individual brick but not how someone looks at a wall, if that makes sense. essentially I think you need to zoom out some and focus on overall texture, as you did with the smaller bricks which btw, are outstanding.
I did a quick and messy edit.
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/aa45f124ccc30a286a072f34eaa1f165/tumblr_nkkmn2Rukx1u3fa1zo1_100.gif)
overall i'm loving the progress on this, keep it up!
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Thanks so much for the edit!
I'm sure it will come in handy when I get a chance to go over these tiles again.
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Sorry for double post. Figured I would post these here as well since they are edits of the tiles I originally posted here ages ago.
You can just ignore the building tiles at the top. What I've been working on upgrading are the dock and block wall tiles.
I would like some C&C on these things if you guys wouldn't mind. I have tried to incorporate some of the suggestions and criticism I received regarding the block wall, but am not sure how effective my edit has been. Any advice is very much appreciated.
(http://i.imgur.com/sIwMa0s.png)
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Hey thanks.
I actually used one of your previous edits as a reference to try and improve the 'big bricks' this time.
(http://i.imgur.com/knh9L3f.png)
You're right though, they could definitely be more irregular.
notice on the bricks i edited on the right (ignoring top one) i tried to keep some sharp edges with the odd single pixel rounded one here and there just to vary it?
i feel like ur bricks are still too rounded and shaded like bouncy rubber.
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Thanks for the advice although I'm not sure if I understood entirely what you mean.
Anyways, I've added in another brick variant (demarcated by the red pixels on the upper, left most portion of the block wall). I've tried to add more texture and less round, simple shading, which I think is what you were advising in general. I think I'll just keep replacing the round, simple shaded blocks with new varieties of blocks like these. Could you perhaps have a look at this new block variety and let me know if you think I should continue with this approach? Very much appreciated.
(http://i.imgur.com/58RS1sF.png)
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I hope this is a step in the right direction.
(http://i.imgur.com/f7nl6tj.png)
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bit of a perspective issue here...
(http://i.imgur.com/GECOPPB.png)
i corrected the pillars on the right
its good to see ur experimenting with brick texture.
i know i keep going on about it i just dont think those bricks should have such curved edges due to the overall size and shape of the highlight and shadow bit.
i also don't think they need to be SO defined from each other.
sometimes less is more as you've discovered with ur lovely red brick texture.
i think u should start looking around at lots of games, paintings, tv shows etc that have bricks in them and keep at it.
and while ur at it, consider some more interesting structures, arches, columns etc. to break up the large sections of brick.
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Thanks so much for the criticism and advice.
I made some slight changes in the edit below and will continue to focus on the wall in the coming days. I can't help but feel like the wall has become a little noisy with the addition of texture. Maybe my eyes are just used to the low texture look.
Only one question. I cannot figure out the significance of the red square. I assume it's to demarcate the perspective issue, but I can't see that either.
Thanks again.
(http://i.imgur.com/QS8z4Rv.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/zkSMmwj.gif)
Post bottom need to move 3ish pixels up. Right now, if you look at just the bottom where the post meets the water, it looks like half the post extends past the brick southward. If you look at where the post intersects with the dock, the dock is perfectly aligned with the brick meaning that the post, going straight through the dock edge, would be as well.
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That makes total sense. Thanks very much.
Edit: Hey also thanks for the edit. I just realized that you included more there than the perspective correction.
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could be a matter of taste but i think the boardwalk is a bit too bright.
darker wood that looks worn due to exposure seems more fitting to me.
so this would consist of dark browns with light greys and a few shades of varying hues and saturations sketched throughout the texture.
again could be a matter of taste but the diagonal planks don't seem right to me.
although possible, it just doesn't seem likely someone would build a boardwalk like that unless they were trying to be fancy and this looks more like a warehouse area.
seems more like the would run vertically or horizontally, which ever is the shortest distance.
there's also no separation on the edging planks...they just kinda blend into one massive piece of wood.
the highglights on the pillars make them feel too shiny to me. should be more dull and probably have a bit heavier shadow at the top under the boardwalk.
it could be tricky but it wouldbe good if the bottom was a different, darker tone to make it look wet and waterlogged.
u could also add some crusty barnicles and stuff if u wanted to make it look realistic.
above that u could have some dark green bits where its got a bit mossy.
what's ur plan for the dark ground that looks like placeholder?
some kind of 2 colour pavings with gardens and edge trimming perhaps?
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Thanks for all the ideas. I will definitely have a close look at each of them when I next get the chance.
In regards to the place holders on the horizontal planes, if you go to page 3 of this thread, I intend to add the red cobble street and the stone sidewalk surrounding it. As this is supposed to be a complete overhaul of the old infrastructure tiles, I will be editing them as they're added in.
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Thanks for all the ideas. I will definitely have a close look at each of them when I next get the chance.
In regards to the place holders on the horizontal planes, if you go to page 3 of this thread, I intend to add the red cobble street and the stone sidewalk surrounding it. As this is supposed to be a complete overhaul of the old infrastructure tiles, I will be editing them as they're added in.
Sorry I suck at reading :lol:
Nice, cobblestone sounds good :y:
Something like this (http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/cobblestone-texture-917236.jpg) perhaps.
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Yes definitely something like that.
I'll certainly need your guidance again when I get to that stage.
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First challenge is making random bricks that tile well.
A suggestion to keep it simple is to draw horizontal lines (because its a horizontal surface) first that tile nicely.
Then within these lines u draw random vertical lines to make bricks of varying lengths.
If you want to you can also vary the width of each row (such as I've seen some real castles have) but it doesn't seem necessary for cobblestone in this environment.
I'd say quickly get your lines done before worrying about the material...
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Well correct me if I'm wrong but I think that approach might cause some tiling issues. I'm always concerned with keeping things to the smallest possible tile size in order to keep the tiling process as clean and easy as possible.
Using my previous strategy I was able to use 16x16 tiles, and was able to add irregularity and variety by having the different cobbles protrude from the surface of the road to varying degrees.
(http://i.imgur.com/zKZC4GT.png)
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That doesnt look like a floor, it feels more like a wall.
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yes, the bricks are too far apart for it to look like a floor. Looks more like a brick wall in which the cement separates the bricks a bit more
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So I've done some work on the top of the block wall, and have also begun work on the cobble street.
The street is still pretty preliminary. Wanted to get some colours together before I added any shading or texture.
Pretty dissatisfied with the way it looks currently. Figured opening it up to criticism and comments may help point me in the right direction.
(http://i.imgur.com/Czbxghc.png)
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Whoa, this has come a long way since last I checked.
I would really make the wooden texture on the docks a lot more grey and/or brown. Right now, it looks like it's brand new, it doesn't feel right for this setting. Everything else feels a bit grim and industrial, while the docks look very cute, like a Super Mario style game.
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Whoa, this has come a long way since last I checked.
I would really make the wooden texture on the docks a lot more grey and/or brown. Right now, it looks like it's brand new, it doesn't feel right for this setting. Everything else feels a bit grim and industrial, while the docks look very cute, like a Super Mario style game.
Hey there,
I'm actually trying to incorporate a bit of a cute/fun vibe into the environment, although you're not the first to say that the dock looks out of place. When you say the wooden texture should be more grey/brown are you referring to the horizontal plane, vertical plane, or both?
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Continuing to edit the cobble road tiles.
Think I'm at least headed in the right direction now.
(http://i.imgur.com/owiOGfs.png)
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Yes, now is totally fixed. (Maybe you should keep the 2 horizontal ones? it looked cool)
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Its really interesting how u fade to grey in the middle of the cobblestone.
Its good how its only a few extra colours to get that effect and the gradient isn't even visible on my crappy monitors.
It looks like the colours were changed using tool assistance though which is fine except you've ended up changing all the highlights and shadows on the cobblestone.
This is a waste of colours and also doesn't make much logical sense as it seems like the top surface would normally be the only one to be come worn.
Its barely noticeable but I would change all the cobblestone highlights and shadows to the same colour to keep your count down.
IMO consider keeping cobblestone horizontal as it is a horizontal plane.
This isn't required but seems like normally the way to go where you have a choice which directions the lines would go.
Typcially choosing vertical lines for vertical walls and horizontal for flat ground.
Not sure how to explain it except that its a visual communication thing as if its easier for the viewer to process and accept it with less thinking.
R u going to have any vegetation?
Re your comments about making a cute and fun environment, I thought this was the case but you can still keep that vibe and add texture if you want.
You just need to keep textures subtle enough they don't conflict with surroundings.
Here's some barnacle references in case you like the idea...
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/barnacles-weathered-pier-piling-21990568.jpg
http://en.clipdealer.com/preview/image/003/151/072/previews/1--3151072-Barnacle%20Covered%20Pier.jpg
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Hey there,
I'm actually trying to incorporate a bit of a cute/fun vibe into the environment, although you're not the first to say that the dock looks out of place. When you say the wooden texture should be more grey/brown are you referring to the horizontal plane, vertical plane, or both?
Primarily the horizontal plane. Compared to the doors, the wooden texture on the balcony and the overall scale, maybe the floorboards are a bit wide as well? This contributes to the cute / fun vibe you mention, and the fact that the framework on the docks looks kind of like it was cut from a single, massive piece of wood. There's no point where the big wooden beams connect and intersect on the horizontal plane.
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Hello again,
ts really interesting how u fade to grey in the middle of the cobblestone.
This was honestly done out of desperation, to try and make the tiles look passable. I've removed it in my latest edit.
IMO consider keeping cobblestone horizontal as it is a horizontal plane.
This makes a lot of sense, I hadn't thought of it this way before. What I had intended to do is use vertical lines for the east-west streets and horizontal lines for the north-south streets. This is how it would actually be done in reality. Once I get done with the north-south streets I'll see if the whole thing looks better with horizontal lines.
R u going to have any vegetation?
The only vegetation I had really considered is a basic grass tile. Trees would be nice, although I'm not ambitious enough to attempt one yet.
barnacle references
Thanks a lot. I love the colour of that green moss and will definitely give it a try when I get a chance.
Primarily the horizontal plane. Compared to the doors, the wooden texture on the balcony and the overall scale, maybe the floorboards are a bit wide as well? This contributes to the cute / fun vibe you mention, and the fact that the framework on the docks looks kind of like it was cut from a single, massive piece of wood. There's no point where the big wooden beams connect and intersect on the horizontal plane.
Thanks for the advice. I definitely intend to revisit the dock's horizontal plane.
I've really struggled with these cobble tiles. Think its improving marginally though.
(http://i.imgur.com/RgrMcJP.png)
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Alright, went back to my original cobble tile and just edited it slightly.
Turned down the brightness and saturation on the top of the dock tiles.
Added some curb tiles around the road.
(http://i.imgur.com/QqN0n7E.png)
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More C&C would be greatly appreciated.
(http://i.imgur.com/sChbElD.png)
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Would love some more general C&C.
Also considering adding some light texture to the grass tiles. I will at least be adding texture to the front facing grass tile where it borders the stone sidewalk sort of tiles. As you can see I've already started playing around with some texture in this area and it isn't going too well. So any guidance regarding this sort of thing would be very much appreciated as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZXtgOkU.png)
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Have you considered stronger borders on the sides of buildings to separate them from the background? Not necessarily a 2 px line (though it's certainly worth considering) but just some sort of finish to the tiles that mark the edge of a building. My major criticism right now is flatness. Which is hard to combat with this sort of tilework, I know.
I also think it's kind of weird how some places have shadows (e.g. windows and doors), while the buildings and walls do not cast any shadows. It's kind of hard to read, at a glance, whether the grass is flat or sloped.
(http://i.imgur.com/arVVqud.png)
Would love some more general C&C.
In my experience, the best way is to help other people with C&C in their threads. Then they're grateful to you and check out your thread more often.
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What is your end goal? It is such a large piece, where are you going with it? At this point you have a lot of great detail on the buildings, but the sidewalks/streets/dock are just so large and wide open that even though they are well pixeled and detailed they look bland.
I think you might need to take a break from polishing what you have and start adding new assets. Start filling the streets with objects and maybe people eventually. After you have developed some more skills and filled up the environment more maybe then you might see ways of improving what you have now. The alternative would be calling this done for now and moving on to another piece.
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have you considered stronger borders on the sides of buildings to separate them from the background
Hadn't really considered it, no. Maybe I will give it a second look, I like what you've done it the edit. Thanks for that.
I also think it's kind of weird how some places have shadows (e.g. windows and doors), while the buildings and walls do not cast any shadows.
I am planing to use these tiles in a game, eventually, god willing. I figure I will add shadows to the larger things with code instead of artwork. Save myself a lot of work that way.
In my experience, the best way is to help other people with C&C in their threads. Then they're grateful to you and check out your thread more often.
I would like to offer more help but feel as though I am qualified enough to provide guidance to only the very newest of pixelers.
What is your end goal? It is such a large piece, where are you going with it?
This piece is just being used to overhaul my preexisting infrastructure tiles (roads, sidewalks, docks, etc.) I like working in mock up format.
I think you might need to take a break from polishing what you have and start adding new assets. Start filling the streets with objects and maybe people eventually. After you have developed some more skills and filled up the environment more maybe then you might see ways of improving what you have now.
This is great advice. I've been struggling with these for too long. I'll start working on street lamps, creates and barrels.
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I've begun putting a map together in tiled map editor. Figured some of you might like to take a look?
Also, still a WIP so C&C is very welcome.
(http://i.imgur.com/qZtF2Kb.png)
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Would love some more general C&C.
Also considering adding some light texture to the grass tiles. I will at least be adding texture to the front facing grass tile where it borders the stone sidewalk sort of tiles. As you can see I've already started playing around with some texture in this area and it isn't going too well. So any guidance regarding this sort of thing would be very much appreciated as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZXtgOkU.png)
I liked the old duller cobblestone tiles you had before. Generally adding more contrast and separation between the stones makes them pop out really strongly, feel closer to the camera. That's part of the reason they look like walls rather than floors: that sort of detailing can work for walls, which are physically closer to the camera, and are obstacles for the player to path around; but floors you want to fade back and become essentially invisible. Conveying affordances is probably the most important function of game art.
The diagonal bricks in front of the doors do this well. Everything on the upper floor is at a similar lightness. The cobblestones break this.
The lone depressed stones on the upper floors are are way too extreme; I would reduce the shadowing by a whole line-width.
I've begun putting a map together in tiled map editor. Figured some of you might like to take a look?
Also, still a WIP so C&C is very welcome.
(http://i.imgur.com/qZtF2Kb.png)
Your stair shadows here are not nearly stark enough. They should be darker, for one, but also extend nearly the width of the stairs at the midpoint. Think about how the wall would stencil its form onto the surface of the steps.
(http://i.imgur.com/S2CrMqwm.jpg)
Also, you need some kind of real architectural corner on your buildings. The brick doesn't really work there, especially not just starkly ending like that.
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It's a common mistake with the kind of view : you put sometime shadow, sometimes not.
So it's seams too flat. Same for the wall and the water, stair.
I don't know why but it's really like rpgmaker tile (no offense), but you mix some tile with many textures, close to tile without any.
So this is an exemple , not very perfect but it work well imho: lot of strong shadow, good contrast too and textures for all materials
(https://impulsestore.gamestop.com/images/product_gfx/futuristic-map-2.png)
I know well , shadow is a pain in the ass but it really give some deep to your map
I suppose it's just the floor tile, because you need to add some trees and others stuff.
You know, we focus easily on little problem because lack of details.
I don't like vx tile but i need to tell this mockup isn't bad : lot of details so we can forgot the lack of some shadows
(http://i.imgur.com/RvLN8n9.png)
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Thanks for the advice guys.
The shadows are all currently tentative. I think now we're going to do them with code instead of tiles anyways.
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I might consider making the brickwork and the legs of the dock look a little scummy near the water, with algae growth or perhaps even barnacles - or at least consider adding a high water line. Right now, it all looks a little too clean for something that's submerged in water regularly.
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That's a great idea. Decroded kept telling me to implement similar details. I will get around to it eventually!