Pixelation

Critique => Pixel Art => Pixel Art Feature Chest => Topic started by: AlcopopStar on October 13, 2013, 08:50:20 am

Title: GR#142 - Kill la Kill Ryuko - Sprite Process
Post by: AlcopopStar on October 13, 2013, 08:50:20 am
Hello forum,

So here is a thing. (edit: added latest version)

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/ff30796f0176d5bdf2ee4ead4b1b765f/tumblr_mullo9tJHc1qi69m3o7_r1_250.png) >>> (http://25.media.tumblr.com/3651172a50237908636aa891e38cd60a/tumblr_muvdadwIwf1qi69m3o2_r2_250.png)
x2
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/2d4e0dfa5c64737df9fd3391bc9bc197/tumblr_mullo9tJHc1qi69m3o8_r1_250.png) >>>> (http://25.media.tumblr.com/611dc60f62e14972f3e5fdee63941aa2/tumblr_muvdadwIwf1qi69m3o1_r2_250.png)

So I was hoping to make something in the vain of much superior artist Hunter Russells (Mojry, 1up? http://professionalmanlyguy69.tumblr.com/ (http://professionalmanlyguy69.tumblr.com/))

But I feel the posturing of my figure just isn't strong enough. I don't know if I have time to completely rework this but I would love some suggestions all the same.

The character is Ryūko Matoi from studio triggers anime Kill la Kill, a spiritual successor to Gurren Lagann. So um yeah, I understand the outfit is completely insane (see: anime) and I have my issues with the show but I like the characters and was hoping to do the full set.

Here is a reference of Ryūko in her err... battle lingerie.
http://amisubs.altervista.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/HorribleSubs-Kill-la-Kill-01-720p.mkv_snapshot_20.03_2013.10.03_21.27.52.jpg

Suggestions welcome!
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: wolfenoctis on October 13, 2013, 02:29:59 pm
Proportions and anatomy is slightly off, also I think the colors are a little too saturated, heres an edit to show you what I mean:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2h2egd4.png)
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: AlcopopStar on October 13, 2013, 04:17:34 pm
Thanks for the response wolf,

You are defiantly right about the colours, that said I do want the image to "pop" so I didn't tone them down quite as much as you did. I also love what you did with the sword.

Here is the latest version, I added in the base I created for anatomies sake. Things have been stylized but generally everything should still be making sense. (legs are a bit off maybe, i'll fix that in the morning.)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/f5b146ae97a581b15363b261d496f775/tumblr_mungxx52iw1qi69m3o1_r1_250.png)
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/9beb15ba08b2ecae2b47251953e30291/tumblr_mungxx52iw1qi69m3o2_250.png)

I think i'll play with the colours some more when it's not 3am.
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: Facet on October 14, 2013, 06:26:43 pm
I think she's just leaning forward a bit and there's little sense of balancing the weight of the sword, non-sword hand bit unengaged, hovering.

I tried to use stronger, smoother lines to ground her and 'transmit' force towards the pivotal sword hand. Adjusted torso/leg ratio for elegance, YMMV.


(http://i.imgur.com/Bu3qJuP.png)
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: wolfenoctis on October 15, 2013, 05:20:39 am
Nice stance Facet, but I think the legs might be spread a little too wide. I made a variation, see this a lot in anime poses, somewhat unrealistic but yeah...
(http://i44.tinypic.com/116kkt1.png)
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: jams0988 on October 15, 2013, 06:41:54 am
I dunno, Wolf. Facet's stance may be a bit wider than realistically comfortable, but it's still a very doable pose, and gives her a stylized "about to kick ass!" feel. It seems like the best pose to go with to me, considering the character.
In other news, Kill la Kill is one of the best shows ever, two episodes in. The fanservice is so over the top, it's hilarious and badass, rather than pervy and gross, and the whole show is just insane and tons of fun. Looking forward to the rest of the season!
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: Facet on October 15, 2013, 06:02:43 pm
@wolfenoctis

Thanks, It seems like she's some sort of superpowered teen ninja though, the bow-legged thing is counter to what I was trying to do with the strong straights.
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: wolfenoctis on October 15, 2013, 06:37:40 pm
@ Facet

I know that, I just added that one as a variation, just occurred to me and thought I'd post it. What I mean by the wide legs isn't so much the stance as the position of the knee:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/ou3139.png)

I think it looks a little weird to me, aside from that the stance is great  :y:
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: AlcopopStar on October 16, 2013, 10:21:20 am
@facet & wolf

Thanks for the edits guys, I tried to push to pose like you illustrated and I think it's looking a lot more dynamic.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/1c685f8ecc29f7d1714b287bf2d8a262/tumblr_murbo162MP1qi69m3o1_250.png)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/2aeb702a4b589e3913d1ad5c2eb2aad3/tumblr_murbo162MP1qi69m3o2_250.png)

My main issue now is readability. This may be a colour issue, or weak pixel tech, i'm not sure. Thoughts?

@jams0988
Yeah the show is a lot of fun, though I still think the fan service is a little gross. This post: http://mt-dick-too-bomb.tumblr.com/post/63676638391 (http://mt-dick-too-bomb.tumblr.com/post/63676638391) reflects my thoughts on the matter. That said the show has a lot of good points as well.
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: Cyangmou on October 16, 2013, 11:05:43 am
I think your main issue is the hip-line (shoulde rline could use some work as well)
Your skirt is horizontal though the legs are widely spread. this makes it appear that both legs have different length while the hip is really static. If you study Facet's edit you will see how he worked with rhytm for the hip line and the shoulders.

Your clothed version has a horizontal hip line (skirt lower edge) and a horizontal shoulder line. - try to apply the main landmarks of faces edit in the clothes as well.

If you look closely at her left leg you will see that the knee is displaced. the anatomy of the upper leg (at least what I can read from the shading) don't matches together with the position.

Her hand on the hip also seems to be really misformed, it looks to me more like a cat claw.

The other huge proplem I spot are huge inconsistencies with the light direction: most is frontal lit, her lower left arm is lighted from the right side, sword too, hair too, breasts are flat shaded, while the head is shaded from 45 upper light)
The belly currently seems to be the far most important spot to look at, the breast are flat (which makes no sense if you are drawing a design like that) - tone down the light on the belly, increase the light at the top (face, shoulder area)
the reflected light next to her right knee barb (if that's right in english, at least below her left knee) is definitely off if the light is coming from above.

There are even more smaller anatomical inconsistencies, like:
her right lower arm seems to be to longs, the breasts are completely flat on the torso (they are usually facing away from each other)
her right shoulder seems to be by far to big compares to her left shoulder
the legs in your base have different lengths
the calfy could use more stress for such high shoes
the neck is to long, or there need to be more back muscles visible (in the base)
belly button is too high, or at least the brown shading makes it appear higher
head seems to be misattached to the neck (sternomastoid - ear line)
feet are both fixed to the bottom (no weighting in the pose)
the line of the suspenders don't works wll with the rest of the upper legs

I know all the anatomical stuff is just nitpicking compared to the other, more important stuff I mentioned before, but since I had a lot of the same anatomical problems with the last characters I drew and I am currently studying all those subtleties carefully to get them right, I think some of the observations might help you for your overall image as well.
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: AlcopopStar on October 16, 2013, 12:16:34 pm
Hey Cyangmou,

Thanks for the insightful and detailed crit. I'm kind of embarrassed I didn't notice all those issues :s

Anyway, i did my best to fix them up;
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/4cce704aedd79f9b26e0bf3f95a19dd2/tumblr_murgk6FVFj1qi69m3o1_250.png)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/94ef9a02fba2a7f68f49624d590b4b86/tumblr_murgk6FVFj1qi69m3o2_250.gif)

I thought I would make sure that I got the base down before I bothered editing the clothes again, to avoid redundant editing, so let me know if I missed any issues.
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: Cyangmou on October 17, 2013, 03:47:48 pm
just added some anatomical thoughts:

-mainly shoulder belt area
-worked on the deltoids and added stressing to the left one which should be raised
-this further affects the chest
-also tried to give her a more evil expression which gives her some kind of dominance which might work well with the manly wide-spread leg pose
-added some muscle stressing to her bent arm, mainly biceps
-worked on the hand on the hip
-your hip seemed to be angled in the wrong direction in your last edit, i changed it according to the leg position
-added some stressing in the hip area according to the new placed ribcage and pelvis
-fixed her ribcage below the chest (contraposte of ribcage and pelvis is now a lot more obvious)
-changed the size of the rear hand since it seemed to big
-made her pelvis wider, more female like
-worked on the muscle stressing of the upper and lower legs
-detailled the knees
-fixed leg lengths
-raised the foot of the spread leg and gave her toes more sense of weight
-worked a lot on the shading.
-removed the bright red saturated shadow
-toned the importance of the legs down

(http://abload.de/img/2013_10_17_killlakille5imm.png)
(http://abload.de/img/2013_10_17_killlakills3eyl.gif)

After checking up my anatomical references:

-edited the ass musculature, changed the upper leg in terms of lighting for better form
-made the left arm more woman like and increased the size of the fingers
-checked once more the size of the legs and edited them

(http://abload.de/img/2013_10_17_killlakilllwoa1.png)(http://www.abload.de/img/2013_10_17_killlakilljgpfg.gif)
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: AlcopopStar on October 18, 2013, 05:16:13 am
Hey Cyangmou, thanks for the feedback

Your edit added a lot of great anatomical detail, some of which I have emulated, , but beyond this I feel like your edit took the picture in a more stylistically sharp, realistic and detailed direction then what i'm really looking for. I feel the anime is rounder, more fluid and for lack of a better term, more anime.

Regardless, your edit was still very useful, and I have the anatomy in a place i'm happy with now. (your colour pick for the shadow was also great)

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/07c1ec2b741854623fccb87f9d1532b6/tumblr_muumfgLEcw1qi69m3o4_r1_250.png)

Beyond any huge issues with the base i'm going to move onto the costume so I can get this finished.
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: jams0988 on October 18, 2013, 07:43:22 am
Quote
Your edit added a lot of great anatomical detail, some of which I have emulated, , but beyond this I feel like your edit took the picture in a more stylistically sharp, realistic and detailed direction then what i'm really looking for. I feel the anime is rounder, more fluid and for lack of a better term, more anime.
Well, not every girl is ripped, either. Japanese girls aren't known for having muscles showing everywhere anyway. :)
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: AlcopopStar on October 18, 2013, 11:07:18 am
Well, not every girl is ripped, either. Japanese girls aren't known for having muscles showing everywhere anyway. :)

Well yeah that too!

Here is the costumed version. I would really welcome some advice on the coloring, as it's something I struggle with.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/943d92fda824a4672a780694fa8d6f7c/tumblr_muv6lxbImE1qi69m3o2_250.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/593dc799ae06014cf565dc4a372e7eaf/tumblr_muv6lxbImE1qi69m3o1_250.png)
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: Cyangmou on October 18, 2013, 12:31:01 pm
anatomical thoughts need to be obvious, otherwise it's hard to illustrate the points especially with pixels.
Even if you turn the forms of the muscles down in the final artwork and simplify a lot, the knowledge should be there.
Your shoulder belt is still way off and your knees are chubby in the base, the anatomical knowledge of how the forms look isn't readable.

I also dunno why you worked on the shoulder and hip line of the base to get it  more credible, when you still keep it horizontal and static in the dressed version.
(which looks on top like exactly copy-pasted from your first version which lets all your work go to waste. The first part of my first post eactly adresses this issue)
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: AlcopopStar on October 18, 2013, 03:03:47 pm
Okay well I tried to make the hip line more obvious with the skirt, I also pushed the perspective on the armor a little.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/3651172a50237908636aa891e38cd60a/tumblr_muvdadwIwf1qi69m3o2_r2_250.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/611dc60f62e14972f3e5fdee63941aa2/tumblr_muvdadwIwf1qi69m3o1_r2_250.png)

is it working a little better now?
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: Helm on October 18, 2013, 04:09:45 pm
partial edit. I think you're focusing too much on outlines and not enough on rendering. You need a darker skin shade too. Don't deflect anatomy critique with 'I need more anime' even if you do need more anime. For learning purposes at least!

(http://www.locustleaves.com/234223423434.png)
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: AlcopopStar on October 18, 2013, 04:30:15 pm
Thanks for the edit helm those rendering touches look great and i'll try my hardest to do them justice.

It wasn't my intent to deflect anatomy feedback, I was just trying to explain why I didn't follow all of Cyangmou changes to the letter.
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: wolfenoctis on October 18, 2013, 04:33:04 pm
What Mou meant was that you need to represent the anatomy of the character with the clothing, the lines you made make it look flat as if there is no structure underneath. Also the tilt of that thing she has on the top of her chest need to reflect the angle of her shoulders. An edit to illustrate:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2luubsj.png)
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: pistachio on October 18, 2013, 06:33:03 pm
As an offset of the focus on anatomy, one thing this lacks is the thin cartoony proportions of the original.

You could stick to it more, which could be more interesting:

(http://i.imgur.com/vQvPAfV.png)

This edit mainly took some resizing and color reducing.

If you're still doing this in Mojry's style, the colored outlines, flat colors, no AA and crazy designs basically ties itself into anime, if done right. I'm advocating the opposite of Helm's point with this (rendering vs. simplifying) but it depends on which direction you want to go.

Crow: Yeah I agree. Attempted to fix some things about the edit, mostly facial, but I'm trying not to change it too drastically.
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: Crow on October 18, 2013, 07:41:41 pm
Eek, pistachio. That looks really creepy. I get what you're saying, but I'm totally disagreeing with that edit of yours.
Title: Re: Kill la Kill - Ryūko (vaguely nsfw)
Post by: Facet on October 19, 2013, 01:51:11 am
I really agree on the simplification though: such focus on detail in a lo-res cartoon? I think it's looking a bit stiff and my solution would be smoothing out anatomical & rendering stuff in favour of nice shapes. 

More like this? (on pistachio's) Thought expression could be more 'check out the size of my scissors' than 'rather annoyed by this outfit'.


(http://i.imgur.com/hW3Wfev.png)