Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: slym on December 22, 2012, 07:35:09 pm
-
Hey everyone! I'm currently working on the hero character in Chasm (dev video here) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AitOHtasanY&hd=1)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/idle_12.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_38.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_45.gif)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/idle_12b.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_38b.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_45b.gif)
More About the Game:
Development Blog (http://discordgames.tumblr.com)
Tigsource Thread (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=30117.0)
-
I think the old character works a lot better because of the black outlines. In a platformer it is very important to see where your character is at any time, and the black contrast helps it pop.
As a side note, any reason why the trees and ground are different? I personally prefer the old versions of those, too.
Edit: Oh, I guess this is a downscale! Sorry, I didn't see that there.
How about... hm... I'd say make the main character the most vividly colored one in the scene. A red shirt would pop out a lot more than the lavender one you have right now.
-
You can use some kind of rim lighting to help contrasting the character without using any outline.
Something like this :
(http://www.andrew-whitehurst.net/tutorials/oranges_rim.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/t47ME.jpg)
Anyway, I love that you get rid of the outline, however I prefer the old trees,
they're more detailed thanks to the extra colours.
-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/baseiii_x3.png)
@Ymedron: Thanks, I've changed the purple to a pinker color. The outlines are just too clunky at this resolution, especially when animating.
@tim: The rim lighting could be helpful for the underground where it is darker, but I think it would only blend the character into the environment more or cause suttle banding when he's on the surface. The old trees felt kinda messy to me, so I took out the highlight, but I agree there should be more detail in that version. I've changed up the highlights a bit, hopefully for the better ;)
-
That seems to work a lot better already!
As my last advice that I'd know to give, making the hair a bit darker too might help, since from what I see it's slightly clashing with the areas on the middle and right because of a similar level of brightness.
The little patches of color spruce up (pun intended and apologized for) the tree kinda nicely, but i think they could still be a bit larger.
-
Thanks, I agree if the hair was darker it would contrast more. I just need to find a balance with it on the surface and in caverns.
Here's the run animation I'm working on. Some odd things happening with legs and timing.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_10.gif)
Any ideas on how to fix them?
-
You're right about the odd things. Try to make the legs extend further back and have a bend in it. Make sure to show that they land on the heels of the foot and use a reference if you are not.
-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_16.gif)
I just changed the lifting on the back legs. Any nitpicks?
-
The forward swing of his right arm seems a big exaggerated.
-
Ah! That's what was bothering me about the animation, Yeoman figured it out.
If anything, the arm in the back should probably go further (technically, further in X axis) than the other arm, due to the angle, no?
Also, I've never had to face the problems of using an outline-less sprite on multiple backgrounds myself. But of course I think the most important thing to do would be to avoid putting him on a background of the same color at all costs, so a similar brown background in any of your stages would probably be bad, or need to be carefully designed.
Looking good, though.
-
Yaomon: The exaggeration is intended to create a clunkier and more soldier-like run. But I do agree that between the exaggeration and the legs there is a timing issue. Here's an updated version that I think handles it a bit better, but still has the sync issue.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_26.gif)
-
Please consider the lengths of the legs in these in-between frames. I'm no animation master, but I can tell you it's a very common rookie mistake to mutate the legs every frame, shorten, lengthen, move the knee wherever. PPP or Ptoing will probably post a few useful charts for you.
(http://www.locustleaves.com/run_26b.gif)
-
Just gonna post this, in case you have not seen it yet.
(http://www.wayofthepixel.net/upload/12framerun.gif)
And yeah, keeping your volumes is one of the most important thing in animation. Of course these rules can be broken if you wanna go for really broad animation with swoops and smears and such, but for a normal walk like you go there I would not recommend it.
Also people generally do not turn their heads while walking, which also is a pretty common rookie mistake. Before animating anything you should try to act it out if it is at all possible. Walk across the room like you want your character to walk and observe how you move. Don't rely on how you think people move, use reference.
-
Thanks for the awesome critique. Just to clarify, this is a run animation not a walking on. So that could also be an issue with it. It's the difficulty of capturing a heavy run animation that could be causing it to look like he's speed walking. Here's the current version:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_28.gif)
@Helm: Thanks for the tip. Yeah I definitely noticed some shrinkage and growth going on in his legs, hopefully that is fixed now.
@ptoing: Yes I have seen that chart before, but it's always nice to see it again! You're definitely right about that head =P
-
For some reason your images are not working for me atm, but as far as run animations go, they need at least one frame where both feet are OFF the ground.
-
ptoing: how about this?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_30.gif)
(and alternate source since Dropbox seems to be kinda unstable right now):
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff440/t_redmer/run_30_zpsbcef5ed5.gif)
And here's a frame by frame thing:
http://gif-explode.com/?explode=http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_30.gif
-
The bounce is a bit too heavy, for what he looks like and the front shoulder looks like it unhinges quite a bit when going forward. In the legs you have a weird pause when they are moved forward and curled up most, I would make those frames more distinct, looks oddly robotic.
Other than that you are coming along nicely. Perhaps even try to have him off the ground for longer, 2 frames or something.
-
How about this?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_31.gif)
That shoulder comment was really awesome, it looks much more natural now.
-
This has a really nice rhythm and flow to it. :)
The amount of bounce is good, but I think he comes down a little too hard; there's a bit of a jolt. (Maybe that's what ptoing meant by "heavy?")
-
Now he is gliding, as in not really setting down. This can be fixed by moving 2 of the frames down 1 pixel, I think it is the contact frames, where his heel hits the ground. This will also result in a smoother bounce and look less forced/robotic/heavy golem like (which he is not by design, unless he is some android with a really heavy skeleton).
The shoulder issue still is there. Also look at the frame where the front shoulder is most to the right, his front leg, while being back, is also to the right. The hips and shoulders move opposite. If the hips are like / the shoulders are like \ (viewed from above)
There still is discrepancy between sideview and a kinda 3/4 view which you need to unify before it will look solid.
On closer inspection there still is quite a bit of deformation of volumes in the legs. This being sideways, try to map out the legs and feet using single pixel lines of same lengths with 2x2 or single pixel clusters of other colours as the joints. Once you have an animation with that where the length of the lines does not change, then you can add volume and everything will be a lot more consistent. You can also do this for the entiry body. It helps a lot until you are more fluent in animation. Construction is a good thing here, and animation needs planning.
-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_36.gif)
Tehwexxl0rz: Thanks for the compliment! Hopefully he's more natural when he goes down now.
ptoing: I definitely see what you mean with the gliding and that should be fixed. However, I'm not so sure about the hip/shoulder thing you mention. It seems like to me there is a pretty distinct movement in the hips that is opposite to the shoulders. I did adjust one frame (7) to exaggerate this a little bit more though. I honestly don't know how to fix the perspective issue you mentioned. It would probably be to fix his torso more to the side view, but I'm just not sure that I know exactly how to do that. The legs should also be a bit better now. When I first created the animation I had wire-framed it. It's the cluster of pixels that is the issue for me. Again, thank you for all of your awesome critique.
-
Critique for this sword animation?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_7.gif)
-
Kill the first swoosh frames.
Make the swoosh the full length from where the sword starts to where it ends, but overshoot it a bit.
Have a frame at the end where the sword moves back a bit from the overshoot.
Also the head is doing funny stuff, it looks like he is turning away in one frame. On the foot you got a similar thing going on.
-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_8.gif)
better? It kinda feels like he has less of a swing now, but I guess it's more powerful.
-
It looks kinda weird I have to say. The head movement and the foot still look odd as well.
And I do not know where he is swinging the sword from when I look at the blue swoosh. It is quite confusing still. Did you act this out yourself? (Always act animations out if you can)
-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_9.gif)
Yeah hmm. The pose before the swing was something causing the huge head problem. Maybe this is more obvious to what's going on.
-
I think the swoosh-thing could get shorter before disappearing, or alternatively having the swoosh start from the original position of the sword. Perhaps both!
It could also be white, to match with the color of the sword (After all, it is emulating the afterimage of the sword)
-
This looks more like a parry than an attack, because he ends in a defensive stance instead of following through. I think the blade should angle back over his shoulder (following the arc of the swing) so he can put some power behind his next swing.
This animation seems like it should be the second attack in a combo. He's starting with the blade low and his arms extended and ending with the blade high and arms contracted. This is much more strenuous and less powerful than the reverse.
-
Thanks for the awesome feedback. How about this?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_18.gif)
-
It looks like he's attacking the space at his feet. Bring the swoosh thing counter clockwise a few dozen degrees so it represents the direction of the attack a bit better (the other animation had this down pretty well).
Also, it's not terribly specific but the left arm seems a little awkward staying in that position.
-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_35.gif)
Does anyone have resources or advice on how to even animate a jump cycle? I can understand the legs, but I can't figure out where the arms should go if they aren't holding anything.
-
My understanding of a jump:
Crouch, leap, descent and hitting the ground. The crouch and hitting can be shortened a lot in order to make the gameplay better (delayed jumps are quite horrifying). The arms follow these motions - during the crouch they bend up, and extend for the leap. During the descent they trail upward to varying degrees. When hitting the ground the arms bend again, and then straighten for the standing pose.
-
Im not animation expert but i hope this help you somehow.. Here is samus jump cycle wich is imo pretty good.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/34dpymx.png)
-
1. The arc of the motion blur should be one smooth curve (atm it curves and then straightens out)
2. The blade should end more horizontal, not touching the ground
-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/idle_3.gif)
Yup I have no idea what I'm doing. I'll post some jump stuff in a bit.
-
Check it out:
(https://www.cs.washington.edu/education/courses/459/12au/exercises/images/animation_principles/rw_jump_poses.jpg)
https://www.cs.washington.edu/education/courses/459/12au/exercises/animation_principles.html
Don't mind the 3D bits. The principles apply everywhere. I think you should pay extra attention to anticipation and recovery; those seem to be recurring shortcomings in your animations. Also, grab a stick, bat or whatever, go out into the yard and have a few swings. As you do, try and pay attention to how your body moves. The best reference is yourself. Your brain knows how to do these movements already, but you need to get a conscious feel for them to apply that knowledge to your animations.
-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/jump_1.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_36.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Monsters/ice_slime/ice_slime_1.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/eyeball.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/blacksmith/blacksmith_5.gif)
Weird stuff still going on in the jump. I've ran through the slice many times. I've found it awkward if the blade moves any more than where it is now.
-
Edit! All sloppy and shit. Hope it helps anyway.
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/ErekT_Pixel/swedit_zps766697dd.gif)
-
How about this. Kinda messy, but I think it's motion is a bit better.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_39.gif)
-
It is an improvement, it looks like a very forceful attack!
The hair and some other white area there are flapping kinda funny. I think ErekT's edit could be helpful on that, as the hair in it has a clear movement to it. Hm hm.!
-
Try to add some anticipation before he actually swings the sword. ErekT's edit does it.
-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_41.gif)
Should be a lot cleaner. I've got to say, I'm very thankful for all of the critique. Looking back at what this used to be.... wow =)
I am worried about the anticipation though. Too much anticipation will make the player feel unresponsive. Keeping in mind this is for a game, here's one with less anticipation:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_42.gif)
Maybe heavier swords when equipped will have more anticipation in the swing?
-
Nice improvement! Actually I think it works well without much anticipation, like he's unsheathing his sword real quick-like. I'm still wondering where the sword goes afterwards though.
One frame almost at the end has a foot jerk. Agree about the hair flapping a bit funny, looks like maybe a duplicate frame or something.
-
Cleaning up some more. I played with the shoulders to get a stronger frame.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_44.gif)
Thinking about this for the idle:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/idle_7.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/idle_test_1.gif)
I think the main issue is that I don't really feel like it's the same sprite when it switches to running.
-
You've been looking at that for to long. The idle stance looks like he's going to fall over, he's just leaning so far forward.
-
how about this? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/idle_11.gif)
-
He looks very ready for something. What kind of situation is it for? The tapping foot and the hair flapping in the wind gives me images; I can see him standing on top of a mountain, getting off playing epic death metal riffs, heh. It looks good, I like it. But probably too dynamic if he's not in a fight or something.
-
The game takes place mostly in underground caverns. So he definitely needs to look ready at all times. Only issue is that right now his hair has a lot of wind in it. What I want is to not have it look windy, yet be able to keep the hair from looking like it's dead.
-
You could try having the hair lift a little every time he goes down?
-
Yeah how about this:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/idle_12.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/run_38.gif)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/sword_44.gif)
-
Wondering why he is so hunched over/half-squatting.
What are you trying to achieve with this idle animation?
-
I'm aiming for a attack-ready pose. Basically a pose that looks like he's engaged in his surroundings.
-
The intent of the idle animaton is good, but you took it too far! It looks like he's squatting in preparation for a jump, not ready for combat. I think the difference in heights between idle and running sprites should only be a pixel or two; at first glance it looks like he shrank half a foot.
-
How about this?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73544729/012Projects/Chasm/Character/Animations/drafts/idle_13b.gif)
-
the right foot should be turned clockwise a bit and the leg should share a part in the animation. right now I really feel like the character has a bad cramp in his right leg ><
and the movement is still a bit exaggerated imo. you could get an something better by separating the movement of the head and the chest (so that the guy is actually breathing and not just practicing his flex ;) )
-
The new sword slice you have is much better.
I made these a few versions back but wanted to point out a couple things.
You can get more impact out of animation if you move fast actions past where they will stop and then bring them back.
For this it means pushing his body down before the static pose:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-W4mGK6XBkdE/UOyp-8_6QoI/AAAAAAAAFe8/DydAC3UNM5s/s1600/movePast.png)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NsmPjrDCprk/UOyp6TTrh7I/AAAAAAAAFek/r3GZSdEshiw/s1600/swordSwing_MovePast.gif)
instead of slowing it in from above:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ne34wzynafs/UOyp-1eX9wI/AAAAAAAAFe4/xTlB0Sh_LgY/s1600/slowDown.png)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vcnJ-BETIrA/UOyp6auDEvI/AAAAAAAAFeo/JS3DTO6WDXw/s1600/swordSwing_SlowDown.gif)
Comparison:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NsmPjrDCprk/UOyp6TTrh7I/AAAAAAAAFek/r3GZSdEshiw/s1600/swordSwing_MovePast.gif) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vcnJ-BETIrA/UOyp6auDEvI/AAAAAAAAFeo/JS3DTO6WDXw/s1600/swordSwing_SlowDown.gif)
Move Past Slow In
The same idea can be applied all over animation from the bouncing ball, to a punching fist, or whatever.
While we wait for him to recover dissipating the energy with an effect could be nice.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sA2K74r9vfg/UOyp6cDLrmI/AAAAAAAAFeg/5vK01DMVBss/s1600/swordSwing3_6.gif)
There's tons of different ways to represent this and is good for splitting the same old sword swing into lots of different weapons.
The dev blog is cool.
:y:
-
Wow that's an incredible edit. Thanks for such great insight. I'm still working on the attack cycle, but the newest version can be found in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYJjK3rhILA&hd=1
-
nice! I like to see that mine getting some pixels compared to the "pure technical" videos.
I hope you'll have a jump animation soon ^_^.
-
Hi! great work!
The only feedback I can give you after watching your videos here and reddit, is that the arm on the background is too dark, and sometimes it looks like your character is running with one arm only.
Hope that helps!
-
Hi! great work!
The only feedback I can give you after watching your videos here and reddit, is that the arm on the background is too dark, and sometimes it looks like your character is running with one arm only.
Hope that helps!
I very much agree with this, I think generally things are very well pixeled and I love how polished the latest video looks, but the separation between arms is too much. It's a bit better in the overworld where the outline is more visible, but still an issue.