Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: philippejugnet on November 21, 2012, 03:37:44 pm
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(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/01-4-1-4-1.png)
It's not a sewer, these are pots dropping water. here (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/69825.htm) you can see the first version.
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Oh Philippe, can't you just finish something :(
However, looks nice, but I would like to see a little story in this.
And you could cut or expand the left/right a bit, looks squeezed into the canvas.
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Oh Philippe, can't you just finish something :(
However, looks nice, but I would like to see a little story in this.
And you could cut or expand the left/right a bit, looks squeezed into the canvas.
Super! hey, I have been practicing lately - not wanting to post something unless it's great, but I am planning to finish this by the end of the week. Well, I might stretch it. I love big pieces! I love working on them ^^. I also don't finish stuff because I dont see a need for refining, does not change anything~~just diminishes contrast and destroy the artist's hand on the piece.
edit:
err.. update.
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/02-3.png)
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I love big pieces! I love working on them ^^. I also don't finish stuff because I dont see a need for refining, does not change anything~~just diminishes contrast and destroy the artist's hand on the piece.
You should give serious consideration to why you choose pixel art as your medium, and what aspects of pixel art you're really taking advantage of. What is pixel art adding to the image that digital or traditional painting cannot provide?
As I see it, the advantages pixel art has over other media are only exploited when you're manipulating the relationships between individual pixels. Your reasoning sounds like excuses born of laziness or a short attention span, to be quite honest.
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Oh Philippe, can't you just finish something :(
However, looks nice, but I would like to see a little story in this.
And you could cut or expand the left/right a bit, looks squeezed into the canvas.
Super! hey, I have been practicing lately - not wanting to post something unless it's great, but I am planning to finish this by the end of the week. Well, I might stretch it. I love big pieces! I love working on them ^^. I also don't finish stuff because I dont see a need for refining, does not change anything~~just diminishes contrast and destroy the artist's hand on the piece.
edit:
err.. update.
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/02-3.png)
that statement completely contradicts the fundamental goal and distinct quality of pixel art, which is to create an image of tightly controlled and refined pixels.
You should seriously consider abandoning pixel art if this is your ideology
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that statement completely contradicts the fundamental goal and distinct quality of pixel art, which is to create an image of tightly controlled and refined pixels.
You should seriously consider abandoning pixel art if this is your ideology
I think that's a bit harsh. Just because he's looking for something different out of his pixels doesn't mean it's any less valid. The issue of perfect pixel control may be unique to pixel art, but I'd say that's not the only draw to it. For instance, even without controlling a piece at the pixel level, philippe's scenes benefit from carefully selected palettes, something which few other mediums offer.
And why not a blend of styles? Detailing at a small level on the focal point of a piece while leaving other areas a little rough could have an interesting effect. Maybe I'm just rambling, but I guess what I'm getting at is there's nothing gained by harping on someone's misuse of a medium. Without this kind of exploration, many art movements might never have started. This forum exists to provide feedback to pixel artists, but in the end it's up to the artist whether or not to incorporate that feedback, and they may decide whether or not to do so for their own reasons. From what I've seen philippe has not been obtuse in these discussions.
That said, maybe he's not "exploring new art styles" as much as simply making art in a way that he finds fun. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I also don't finish stuff because I dont see a need for refining, does not change anything~~just diminishes contrast and destroy the artist's hand on the piece.
All that said, these folks do have a point- if you think that refining something destroys the artistic expression in a piece, why do you use pixels? It's true enough that it may not be as "raw" as painting in other mediums when you begin to focus on every tiny detail, but figuring out how those details work together to make a better piece can be the most rewarding parts of working in this medium. Have you at least tried detailing any of your pieces at that level? Perhaps you'd be pleasantly surprised with the outcome.
To keep from completely derailing this thread with this discussion: I agree with the crits that it's a little cramped on the sides. I think it could also be more evident that it's not a sewer; I wouldn't have known if you hadn't qualified it. The rims of the pots more resemble some kind of segmented worm or strange sculpture, which hurts the readability I think. I know you're reluctant to do much refining, but I think the pots need some more love if they're going to read well.
You might also consider giving the water surface and pots a bit stronger highlight. Right now my eye keeps getting drawn back into the brighter greens and blues of the plants and waterfall.
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I don't think it's anyone's place to tell someone to stop pixelling. What *is* however, everyone's choice in here is whether they want to give critique to philippejugnet on finish, pixel-level stuff. If he's not going to go that way, it'll fall on deaf ears. You might ask me what's left to critique, then? I guess the palette, the construction to a limited degree, stuff like that.
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Fundamentals of pixel art? how can you tell me this
fragment of text from wikipedia
"Pixel art is a form of digital art, created through the use of raster graphics software, where images are edited on the pixel level. Graphics in most old (or relatively limited) computer and video games, graphing calculator games, and many mobile phone games are mostly pixel art."
fragment from Encyclopedia Britannica
"the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others"
and then you come to me and say that I am not following the fundamentals? what is the meaning of art for you? Pixel art is a medium which I decided to chose and use my style and technique.
I didn't said I wasn't going to refine just because I don't like it, I will refine for the same reason I live.
thankyou for the critique, I didn't meant to create a discussion here but when the topic is my oppinion it always ends like this.
edit:
all I said was that I don't see a point in refining, not that I wasnt going to.
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After all I'd consider your technique as Oekaki, since it doesn't use any pixel control. It's painting with pixels, but doesn't use any pixel related technique except palette-choice.
And I'd highly recommend that you should at least read the rules
FAQ
http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=4265.0 (http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=4265.0)
Rules
http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=2002.0 (http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=2002.0)
FAQ #5
What exactly is Pixel Art?
Pixel Art is a discipline by which images are created with pixel-level intent or precision. It is more than an end product - It is a methodology focusing on techniques such as hand drawn dithering, anti-aliasing, shading, animation, geometry, and some color theory. Here on this forum, people develop these skills and in turn teach them to others.
When you post work that focuses on these methods, you will receive useful feedback that will help you to improve. While there's no static law that says something IS or IS NOT Pixel Art, some works can certainly be more in line with what is discussed here. For example, Oekaki, a web based drawing phenomenon, does not consistently represent the methods. Also, just because a game uses a sprite, that does not immediately qualify it as pixel art since some games have been known to convert 3D rendered models into sprite stills. Posting works like this is not encouraged.
Members at this forum are interested in many subjects and artistic mediums, and we do offer places on the forum more appropriate for the posting of non-pixel work. If you're posting reference images for pixel work, this is an exceptional case. Blatant disregard for the purposes of the forum will not be tolerated.
FAQ #14
Someone gave me really harsh critique and pointed out lots of stuff... I meant to make that leg extra long, it's not a mistake!
The only thing harder than giving critique is receiving it. Many people ask for critique but don't REALLY want it. They're only interested in praise, or what is generally termed as 'ass-patting'. Everyone, at one time or another has been irritated that someone was harsh on their work pointed out every single mistake, but you should try to appreciate their point of view and avoid taking anything in critique personally, unless they're attacking you, in which case you should report that behavior.
The first natural reaction people have is to make excuses like "That's just my style, I meant to do that. This is just a practice sprite anyway, so it doesn't matter. I was just messing around, it's not supposed to be perfect." If you find yourself doing this, just back away from the computer for a bit until you can calm down and then take a serious look at your sprite and see if there are some valid points in the critique you've received. It IS entirely possible that you really DID intend some things, or that you really WERE just focusing on coloring and not the anatomy, or what-have-you, and you should express that when you first post the sprite, not just after someone calls you on it.
And be honest with yourself... if you didn't consciously decide to do it when you created the sprite, it's probably a mistake. And that's absolutely fine, because now someone has pointed it out to you so you can fix it.
Rules: II general Things to keep in mind:
When posting art, remember:
To put effort into it. If you couldn't put your best in a piece, why would the userbase care to put effort in their critique? In the end, only you know how much time and effort went into a piece, but please try to show us your best, so we may show you our best.
To clearly declare the ownership of the art (in all aspects of it, even if the lineart originally belongs to someone else, we'd like to know of it) and the methods used in making it. This knowledge helps us know what critique would be useful to you. If you're index-painting, then there's not much sense in talk of sprite-style color-conservation, and so on.
To update! If you got good critique, edit your sprite, show the users you cared enough to implement their pointers. Do not abandon a piece once posted. If you don't intend to edit your piece, clearly state so in the original post so users will know if they're willing to go through the whole critique process for a piece that has been finalized.
To keep it pixel-specific. If your art suffers from fundamental errors, please work on those either in private, or with the help of other, specialized fora. Whereas the odd anatomy crit and the odd light crit will show up, they're not the point of the forum. We discuss pixel-specific techniques foremost. So if your art shows little to no understanding of more basic artistic concepts, we can't help you, yet. Peruse tutorials, art classes, and other fora as needed. Here be for pixels.
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Ah, end of the discussion, as I have said I didn't said I was not going to refine it. I am partially wrong and I know it and I am sorry for it.
I need help with the stretching of the piece.. does it look cropped?
ty for your time guys.
and the main reason I don't finish stuff is because I think I can do better, but I try to remake my pieces once in a while, if you look at my photobucket gallery you can see that I update every piece untill it looks good enough to post.
edit:
like this Super?
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/02-3-2.png)
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Looks a lot less "squished" with the larger canvas size, so definitely a step in the right direction there :) I'm just curious though -- how is this a "remake" of that other piece? While both involve water falling from a high place to a lower place, that's mostly the only similarity I see. Not that it's a bad thing at all, but I think this stands as more of its own piece than a "remake".
I hope you'll finish and refine this, because some elements of the piece will only look good with polish (the leaves, that brick in the water, and the floating flowers, for a few examples.) G'luck, will watch for progress!
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Yes, it's better. To avoid the "squished look" (don't kow if it's the right term in english), you can crop some elements, so it looks like the image would continue from there.
Like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/injOY.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/NHbrq.gif)
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Looks a lot less "squished" with the larger canvas size, so definitely a step in the right direction there :) I'm just curious though -- how is this a "remake" of that other piece? While both involve water falling from a high place to a lower place, that's mostly the only similarity I see. Not that it's a bad thing at all, but I think this stands as more of its own piece than a "remake".
I hope you'll finish and refine this, because some elements of the piece will only look good with polish (the leaves, that brick in the water, and the floating flowers, for a few examples.) G'luck, will watch for progress!
the remake is kinda like how I would do it nowdays with a different idea but from the same start ^^.
Super17 :D thankyou for your time ^^ here's the update, I think I get it now ::)
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/02-3-2-1.png) -> ? -> (http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/02-3-2-1-1-1-1.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/OzxLt.png)
I'm not a perspective guru, but the holes of the pots seems off to me.
afaik, at corresponding horizontal positions (i.e. 1/4th of center-to-edge, in both directions), the "circle" should intersect the vertical guides at points that are on the same fading line ...
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(http://i.imgur.com/OzxLt.png)
I'm not a perspective guru, but the holes of the pots seems off to me.
afaik, at corresponding horizontal positions (i.e. 1/4th of center-to-edge, in both directions), the "circle" should intersect the vertical guides at points that are on the same fading line ...
Thanks! I have fixed it, I won't post it now because it was the only think I have done different, tommorow I will post updates :P
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What you are doing now, it seems, is taking whatever you first come across and running with it, refining, rendering and detailing a (mostly) poorly constructed image. I would take a step back if I were you and look at this on a foundational level, really thinking about form in perspective and how the light hits it.
Not much of a sense of scale is shown in the perspective, which seems unplanned, and as PypeBros pointed out the construction is a bit flat and wonky. For perspective, I would recommend an upshot (looking up) for this one if they are large, at least something that looks less "isometric" for the downshot you have now.
As far as composition goes it still looks a bit squished. The easy way out I think is to increase the vertical space above the pots, with perspective in mind.
The other individual objects are rendered nicely and with a suited palette, but in the image as a whole, it looks like details besides the 2 big pots are competing for attention. The water is rendered as if on a very large scale, with the apparent thinness of it and the way it bends straight down. I would expect some curve at this small scale. (small (http://ak6.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/2291033/preview/stock-footage-water-pouring-from-a-drainage-pipe-into-a-river-in-high-definition-hd.jpg) vs big (http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/140424/dam_waterfall.jpg) scale refs)
(http://i.imgur.com/3GpOn.png)
Instead of making a direct edit I sketched out (very roughly and quickly) several thumbnails messing with perspective, lighting, atmosphere, scale etc. just to give you a few ideas of what can be done, and examples of said lighting used to lead the eye. Later on you can have a busy composition but you have to keep the values in mind.
If you aren't going to change this image drastically or make thumbnails of a piece, try it on another sometime, or in the future if you're going to remake this remake. It makes good practice, for me as well as you. Try many different takes on the same idea. If it looks like you've run out of steam you may have to deviate more from the first few tries. Admittedly it's not ideal for the purposes of pixel art, but, if anything, it makes a good reference for the full-scale image.
Keep on practicing! good luck man!
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What you are doing now, it seems, is taking whatever you first come across and running with it, refining, rendering and detailing a (mostly) poorly constructed image. I would take a step back if I were you and look at this on a foundational level, really thinking about form in perspective and how the light hits it.
Not much of a sense of scale is shown in the perspective, which seems unplanned, and as PypeBros pointed out the construction is a bit flat and wonky. For perspective, I would recommend an upshot (looking up) for this one if they are large, at least something that looks less "isometric" for the downshot you have now.
As far as composition goes it still looks a bit squished. The easy way out I think is to increase the vertical space above the pots, with perspective in mind.
The other individual objects are rendered nicely and with a suited palette, but in the image as a whole, it looks like details besides the 2 big pots are competing for attention. The water is rendered as if on a very large scale, with the apparent thinness of it and the way it bends straight down. I would expect some curve at this small scale. (small (http://ak6.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/2291033/preview/stock-footage-water-pouring-from-a-drainage-pipe-into-a-river-in-high-definition-hd.jpg) vs big (http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/140424/dam_waterfall.jpg) scale refs)
(http://i.imgur.com/3GpOn.png)
Instead of making a direct edit I sketched out (very roughly and quickly) several thumbnails messing with perspective, lighting, atmosphere, scale etc. just to give you a few ideas of what can be done, and examples of said lighting used to lead the eye. Later on you can have a busy composition but you have to keep the values in mind.
If you aren't going to change this image drastically or make thumbnails of a piece, try it on another sometime, or in the future if you're going to remake this remake. It makes good practice, for me as well as you. Try many different takes on the same idea. If it looks like you've run out of steam you may have to deviate more from the first few tries. Admittedly it's not ideal for the purposes of pixel art, but, if anything, it makes a good reference for the full-scale image.
Keep on practicing! good luck man!
wow, your thumbnails are really good looking! I like them all :D. But I think I went too far with the piece for leaving it incomplete, I can do 2 versions and post them both. Thanks for your time and tips.
update:
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/05-1-1.png)
ah, and I will post the new one here too.